Agar Prime Minister Hoti To Army Ka Budget Cut Kar Ke India Se Trade Karti - Asma Jahangir

[پرفیکٹ سٹرینجر]

جی میں سمجھتا ہوں کہ آمریت کیا ہے۔ سب کچھ دیکھا اور سُنا ہے جو مشرف دور میں ہوا ہے۔ سب کچھ پڑھا ہے جو ایوب نے یحیہ اور ضیا ء نے کیا تھا۔ میں تو آمریت کا دفاع کر ہی نہیں رہا۔ لیکن آپ سے بھی التماس ہے کہ آپ فوج کی نفرت میں اِن ملک کے غداروں کی طرف داری مت کریں ۔ چند ہفتوں پہلے جب نواز بیرونی دورے پر گیا تھا اور اِس فورم پر تحریک انصاف کے کچھ ساتھی اُسے اُس کی پالیسیوں پر برا بھلا کہہ رہے تھے تو آپ ہی فرما رہے تھے کہ نواز جو کچھ بھی ہے دنیا میں جب بھی جاتا ہے تو وہ ہمارا نمائندہ ہے اور اِس طرح دوروں کے بیچ اُس کے خلاف باہر کے ممالک میں مظاہرے کرنا ٹھیک نہیں کیونکہ پوری دنیا میں ہم اپنا تماشا بنا رہے ہیں۔ تو پھر آپ یہی بات فوج پر بھی لاگو کریں نا۔ فوج لاکھ بری سہی اِس سے کسی کوانکار نہیں لیکن جب کوئی فوج کے خلاف بھارت جیسے دشمن کے طرف داری کرے تو پھر ہمیں کیا اپنے گھر کے اختلافات کی بنیاد پر دنیا کے سامنے اپنی فوج کو بدنام کرنا ذیب دیتا ہے۔۔۔۔

آمریت فرعونیت پر اس وجہ سے خاموشی اگر کی جاتی تو پھر فرعون کے دشمن بھی بہت تھے ۔۔۔

فوج نے ملک پر بار بار قبضہ کیا ہے ۔ ملک توڑا تباہ برباد کیا۔۔۔ہماری فوج پاکستان کےلئے بھارت سے بڑی دشمن ثابت ہوئی ہے ۔
ہماری فوج بھارتی فوج کے مقابلے بذدل فوج ثابت ہوئی ہے ۔
تاریخ زیادہ پرانی نہی۔

 

[Reason]

What is it that she said wrong? Please explain! So u don't want to trade with India?
1) I want Pakistan to trade with India but on equal terms. The ongoing trade that we are having with India is destroying our local industry they are sending lots of stuff here while we are comparatively not exporting enough. e.g. our local farming is getting wiped out because we are importing from India. Because of our government's bad economic policies the rate of fruit and vegetables we produce locally cannot compete with the stuff we import from India.

So u want keep increasing the defense budget? Because thats what she said in the video. Pakistani military establishment manufactured India as a threat, they keep using India as an excuse to wage wars, remove elected governments.
2) We are not doing it for fun rather it is our need of the hour that we keep our defense budget high because of our neighbour. India will never accept Pakistan's existence and She has never let go of any chance to hurt Pakistan. So if She gets a chance she will strike. What other choice do we have? So we should just submit to India? You don't understand that India doesn't want to live in peace. India doesn't want to do table talk. How can we forget about Kashmir and just say hey let's be friends. They started this the day they attacked Kashmir which is rightfully ours. So until Kashmir issue is resolved I don't think there should be a talk about peace.

And ur whole BS about "Kaffaar," Are these the same "Kaffaar" jin ki ek phone call per aap ki pant gilli ho jaa ti hai? Tab tau tumhe koi kaffaar yaad nahin aate.
3) I am not saying that our army is a holy cow. The top tier is morally, religiously and financially corrupt and i don't defend them on that. Try to understand my point. I was not debating on the corruption or cowardliness of our army generals rather I was talking about what the Holy Quran teaches us about dealing with non-muslims like our neighbour India. If you read Surah Al-Mumtahinah you will see what I am talking about.

I don't know where Asma Jehangir or any pro India relations person has said that we should not trade with them on equal terms. BTW, the reason its is unequal is because we are not equal. Does Pakistan have a population 1billion people? I s Pakistani economy is as big as India's?? Are we going to debate a complex issue of trade online now?? Your point about India never accepting Pakistan. Ok, I will openely defend India here so go ahead and lable me as Raw agent. Pakistan initiated most of the conflicts with India i.e Kargil, 65 war. And our great army hasn't won a single war or conflict with India. Pakistan army uses India to fool people into thinking that we are surrounded by threats, which isn't true. India is not a threat, they see China as their main enemy. Keeping people illiterate is a threat, keeping people poor is a threat to Pakistan, not India. India is a different country. They never had a military intervention. They don't say that since Pakistan is our enemy, so get rid of these politicians and let the military takeover. And your last point about corrupt generals. Well these generals are soldiers at some point.

 

[Ali Farooq]

I don't know where Asma Jehangir or any pro India relations person has said that we should not trade with them on equal terms. BTW, the reason its is unequal is because we are not equal. Does Pakistan have a population 1billion people? I s Pakistani economy is as big as India's?? Are we going to debate a complex issue of trade online now?? Your point about India never accepting Pakistan. Ok, I will openely defend India here so go ahead and lable me as Raw agent. Pakistan initiated most of the conflicts with India i.e Kargil, 65 war. And our great army hasn't won a single war or conflict with India. Pakistan army uses India to fool people into thinking that we are surrounded by threats, which isn't true. India is not a threat, they see China as their main enemy. Keeping people illiterate is a threat, keeping people poor is a threat to Pakistan, not India. India is a different country. They never had a military intervention. They don't say that since Pakistan is our enemy, so get rid of these politicians and let the military takeover. And your last point about corrupt generals. Well these generals are soldiers at some point.

I don't know where Asma Jehangir or any pro India relations person has said that we should not trade with them on equal terms. BTW, the reason its is unequal is because we are not equal. Does Pakistan have a population 1billion people? I s Pakistani economy is as big as India's?? Are we going to debate a complex issue of trade online now??
1) Fair enough it's a long debate.

Your point about India never accepting Pakistan. Ok, I will openely defend India here so go ahead and lable me as Raw agent. Pakistan initiated most of the conflicts with India i.e Kargil, 65 war.
2) Yes Pakistan initiated most of the conflicts but have you read the chain of events that lead upto the war of 1965? It was a war for Kashmir. And who attacked Kashmir in 1948? Pakistan or India? I don't understand one thing. Are you saying that we should just abandon Kashmir and accept that Kashmir was never a part of Pakistan when it was clearly given to Pakistan during separation? Don't you know the strategic importance of Kashmir for our country? If you give Kashmir to India do you realize what will India do to our waters?

And our great army hasn't won a single war or conflict with India.
3) Yes i know that and i hate them for it and i don't defend them on this matter.

Keeping people illiterate is a threat, keeping people poor is a threat to Pakistan, not India.
4) Yes it is. And what have either of our rulers have done about it? Whether a dictator or a civil government neither has done anything to rectify the problem. You say that army's budget should be cut and funds transferred to other sectors. Our government is not even competent enough to utilize the budget that is available to them currently in the correct manner what difference will it make if they get more funds? If you give a kid Rs. 10 and he can't buy proper stuff with it what difference will it make it you give the same kid Rs. 100?


And your last point about corrupt generals. Well these generals are soldiers at some point.
5) I strongly disagree with you here. Just because some of the top tier is corrupt doesn't mean that whole institution is corrupt. The Men that die for us, die defending their country are you saying they are corrupt? Do they get homes in DHA, Askari and huge salaries and cars and fee stuff? NO. It's the upper ranked Officers that get those things and you can't call even that corruption because they are given those things in accordance with the constitution of Pakistan. The generals on the very top only they are corrupt.

 

[Pakistan1992]

And before trade they would destory Pakistan. U r Indian agent in Pakistan what else to expect from u.

 

[Reason]

I don't know where Asma Jehangir or any pro India relations person has said that we should not trade with them on equal terms. BTW, the reason its is unequal is because we are not equal. Does Pakistan have a population 1billion people? I s Pakistani economy is as big as India's?? Are we going to debate a complex issue of trade online now??
1) Fair enough it's a long debate.

Your point about India never accepting Pakistan. Ok, I will openely defend India here so go ahead and lable me as Raw agent. Pakistan initiated most of the conflicts with India i.e Kargil, 65 war.
2) Yes Pakistan initiated most of the conflicts but have you read the chain of events that lead upto the war of 1965? It was a war for Kashmir. And who attacked Kashmir in 1948? Pakistan or India? I don't understand one thing. Are you saying that we should just abandon Kashmir and accept that Kashmir was never a part of Pakistan when it was clearly given to Pakistan during separation? Don't you know the strategic importance of Kashmir for our country? If you give Kashmir to India do you realize what will India do to our waters?

And our great army hasn't won a single war or conflict with India.
3) Yes i know that and i hate them for it and i don't defend them on this matter.

Keeping people illiterate is a threat, keeping people poor is a threat to Pakistan, not India.
4) Yes it is. And what have either of our rulers have done about it? Whether a dictator or a civil government neither has done anything to rectify the problem. You say that army's budget should be cut and funds transferred to other sectors. Our government is not even competent enough to utilize the budget that is available to them currently in the correct manner what difference will it make if they get more funds? If you give a kid Rs. 10 and he can't buy proper stuff with it what difference will it make it you give the same kid Rs. 100?


And your last point about corrupt generals. Well these generals are soldiers at some point.
5) I strongly disagree with you here. Just because some of the top tier is corrupt doesn't mean that whole institution is corrupt. The Men that die for us, die defending their country are you saying they are corrupt? Do they get homes in DHA, Askari and huge salaries and cars and fee stuff? NO. It's the upper ranked Officers that get those things and you can't call even that corruption because they are given those things in accordance with the constitution of Pakistan. The generals on the very top only they are corrupt.

So where is the disagreement if you agree. You agree that our military initiated most conflicts with India. Your whole idea of patriotism is, we can't question our military, we shouldn't hold them accountable, military should never answer to anyone. A good way to start would be to have permission to criticize the army and not be called a traitor, which is exactly what you are trying to do here. Aasma Jehangir is a Pakistani citizen, she is a lawyer (I may disagree with her), and one of the harshest critic of the Army. And your whole point is she doesn't criticize India enough. Ok, well her criticism of India is meaningless because she is Pakistani. Now, I don't live in Pakistan, but I will criticize Canadian military because I pay taxes here. I don't want our country getting involved in unnecessary wars. If you are a true patriot, you will want Pakistan army to be subservient to civilian authority, period. You will ask for accountability in the military. Pakistan Army exists because there is a country like Pakistan, not the other way around. And btw when you call your opponents names like (B!tch, Indian agent), that really means you don't have anything to respond to, and your opponent is right.
If anyone that has hurt the Kashmir cause, it is the Army. Whatever the solution to Kashmir is, must be made by our civilian political leadership. Kashmir was not given to Pakistan btw, it was a disputed area. The maharajah who ruled kashmir, didn't decide to join Pakistan. When India did finally agree to resolve the issue of kashmir, our duffer military decided to start war, i.e kargil. And from that point on, you lost kashmir. No one in the world is willing to support us on this. If your solution to Kashmir is jihad, well that hasn't worked out either. Our Jihadis are their terrorists. So before we solve kashmir, we should control our own military. And until this happens, we will not make progress.

 

[STORMTROOPER]

 

[devoid feast]

Pata nhe kissi general ne shayed iske sath zyadati ki hogi ya shadi ka jhansa de k bhaag gya hoga nhe tu iss ki baat army ki mukhalifat se shoro ho k army ki mukhalifat pe khatam na hoti.

 

[Ali Farooq]

So where is the disagreement if you agree. You agree that our military initiated most conflicts with India. Your whole idea of patriotism is, we can't question our military, we shouldn't hold them accountable, military should never answer to anyone. A good way to start would be to have permission to criticize the army and not be called a traitor, which is exactly what you are trying to do here. Aasma Jehangir is a Pakistani citizen, she is a lawyer (I may disagree with her), and one of the harshest critic of the Army. And your whole point is she doesn't criticize India enough. Ok, well her criticism of India is meaningless because she is Pakistani. Now, I don't live in Pakistan, but I will criticize Canadian military because I pay taxes here. I don't want our country getting involved in unnecessary wars. If you are a true patriot, you will want Pakistan army to be subservient to civilian authority, period. You will ask for accountability in the military. Pakistan Army exists because there is a country like Pakistan, not the other way around. And btw when you call your opponents names like (B!tch, Indian agent), that really means you don't have anything to respond to, and your opponent is right.
If anyone that has hurt the Kashmir cause, it is the Army. Whatever the solution to Kashmir is, must be made by our civilian political leadership. Kashmir was not given to Pakistan btw, it was a disputed area. The maharajah who ruled kashmir, didn't decide to join Pakistan. When India did finally agree to resolve the issue of kashmir, our duffer military decided to start war, i.e kargil. And from that point on, you lost kashmir. No one in the world is willing to support us on this. If your solution to Kashmir is jihad, well that hasn't worked out either. Our Jihadis are their terrorists. So before we solve kashmir, we should control our own military. And until this happens, we will not make progress.

Look i realize that both military and civil governments didn't do anything for the betterment of our country. You may not believe me but i am a very strong critic of the army. The point that i was trying to convey to you in this lengthy debate was this:

Yes we should criticize the military just like we criticize our politicians when they do something wrong. BUT when an enemy state no matter who it is spreads propaganda against our institutions whether it is true or false, we should defend our country and it's institutions instead of agreeing with our enemy. let me give you an example. Few weeks ago when our PM went to meet with obama some people here were criticizing him and there were protests against him held in UK. I think this is wrong because we are making ourselves a joke in the eyes of the world. I dislike nawaz very much but when he is out there in the world he is representing Pakistan. When you have a problem in your home you do not start fighting on the street and make you home and your family a joke in the neighbourhood. Instead you should resolve your conflicts in your home.

 

[Reason]

Look i realize that both military and civil governments didn't do anything for the betterment of our country. You may not believe me but i am a very strong critic of the army. The point that i was trying to convey to you in this lengthy debate was this:

Yes we should criticize the military just like we criticize our politicians when they do something wrong. BUT when an enemy state no matter who it is spreads propaganda against our institutions whether it is true or false, we should defend our country and it's institutions instead of agreeing with our enemy. let me give you an example. Few weeks ago when our PM went to meet with obama some people here were criticizing him and there were protests against him held in UK. I think this is wrong because we are making ourselves a joke in the eyes of the world. I dislike nawaz very much but when he is out there in the world he is representing Pakistan. When you have a problem in your home you do not start fighting on the street and make you home and your family a joke in the neighbourhood. Instead you should resolve your conflicts in your home.

I agree. But when we do criticize at home, we are labled as traitors or Indian agents. Thats the main problem. No one has the certificate to tell anyone who is a traitor or who is a real patriot. That was my point.

 

[joedixon737]

I used to hate Asma Jehangir all my life, thanks to Mard-e-Momin Journalism !

Now I am 45 and have realized , she was not that wrong !

this nation was ruled by military directly for 45 + years and indirectly in rest of years

we had one democratic govt run 5 years and PPP is out

let PMLN run for 5 yrs and am sure they will be out too

rest will be left for either PTI or other democratic force ready to fill the vaccum ! but this is the only way out of mess my dear bros n siss

 

[ayaan1]

biggest chawal !!!!!!