Ajmair Sharif Dargah, is it for this purpose?

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babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
I am reading in Newspapers that Katrina Kaif now also sent to
Ajmair Sharif for dua so that her film should flourish. This is
the tendency of Film actre/actress to resort to this. What kind
of usage of a shrine/qabar of a pious person?
 

Mysticreed

Banned
I am reading in Newspapers that Katrina Kaif now also sent to
Ajmair Sharif for dua so that her film should flourish. This is
the tendency of Film actre/actress to resort to this. What kind
of usage of a shrine/qabar of a pious person?

Atleast you believe in the piety of this man. BTW how did you come to know he's a pious person ???????????? Intriguing one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Atleast you believe in the piety of this man. BTW how did you come to know he's a pious person ???????????? Intriguing one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As in the history. He used to be a pious Person. Achieved his status with His Lord due to
his deeds and actions. But I do not think if he in his life ever approved what films show
specially ................ My motive of thread was to draw the attention of the readers
that people expect non-sense and promote non-sense by such actions, i.e. visit to
a pious person grave will fetch flourishness/business/success to their trash(films).
 

samar

Minister (2k+ posts)
I am reading in Newspapers that Katrina Kaif now also sent to
Ajmair Sharif for dua so that her film should flourish. This is
the tendency of Film actre/actress to resort to this. What kind
of usage of a shrine/qabar of a pious person?

Ab hr koi apni marzee se mangta he agar vo mangey jo Allah ne uskey liaey behtr karar diya he to kamyaab ho jaey..........lakin Allah to sab ka mailk he.

dillon ki neyat to ab Allah hi janta he............Abb azjmair sharif valey baba ko to mantey hain lakin vo baba jo kehta he usko nhi mantey..............yahi masla musalmano ka he Allaho ko tomantey hain lakin jo vo kehta he us pe amal nhi krtey........
 

samar

Minister (2k+ posts)
As in the history. He used to be a pious Person. Achieved his status with His Lord due to
his deeds and actions. But I do not think if he in his life ever approved what films show
specially ................ My motive of thread was to draw the attention of the readers
that people expect non-sense and promote non-sense by such actions, i.e. visit to
a pious person grave will fetch flourishness/business/success to their trash(films).

yaar babadeena kia burey logo ki duain shetaan kabool krta he unka khuda koon he??????????
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
yaar babadeena kia burey logo ki duain shetaan kabool krta he unka khuda koon he??????????
Yes their Lord is also the same Lord. No doubt in that. But you think that by going
to shrine or let us say, the usage of Shrine will work like this:

""DUE TO HER/HIS VISIT TO SHRINE, THE DEAD PIOUS PERSON WILL INTERCEDE WITH LORD
AND REQUEST LORD THAT KATRINA KAIF'S FILM SHOULD DO BIG BUSINESS""""
Mine question is that a person who spent his whole life in good deeds and acquired
a status for this reason that he will intercede before Lord to promote films????
 

Mysticreed

Banned
As in the history. He used to be a pious Person. Achieved his status with His Lord due to
his deeds and actions. But I do not think if he in his life ever approved what films show
specially ................ My motive of thread was to draw the attention of the readers
that people expect non-sense and promote non-sense by such actions, i.e. visit to
a pious person grave will fetch flourishness/business/success to their trash(films).

I still haven't got any proper answer dude. I will repeat it 'BTW how did you come to know he's a pious person ???????????? Intriguing one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

No history bs allowed. I need a convincing answer to what you claimed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

chandbibi

Minister (2k+ posts)
@ babadeena
It is a simple part of PR package of film stars. Ajmer Sharif also keeps itself on the most visited shrines list that way. Its Win -Win for both the parties. PR means an article a day about these film stars. So to create some story they keep visiting here and there. Don't take it too seriously. Katrina Kaif wants to buy properties in Mumbai - india. She needs the blessings of everyone out there to keep the money rolling in. So chill. this isn't about religion or faith.
 

samar

Minister (2k+ posts)
Yes their Lord is also the same Lord. No doubt in that. But you think that by going
to shrine or let us say, the usage of Shrine will work like this:

""DUE TO HER/HIS VISIT TO SHRINE, THE DEAD PIOUS PERSON WILL INTERCEDE WITH LORD
AND REQUEST LORD THAT KATRINA KAIF'S FILM SHOULD DO BIG BUSINESS""""
Mine question is that a person who spent his whole life in good deeds and acquired
a status for this reason that he will intercede before Lord to promote films????

Isi ko to dunya kehtey hain............log Allah se dunya mangtey hain ore Allah hi unhain deta he..............Allah kehta b he k kae log vo mangetey hain jo unkey liaey behtr nhi..........

isi ko to rab kehtey hain.........agar us kartrina ko apney rab ki pehchan nhi to kia uska rab b uskey rab honey se hat jaey nhi Allah hmesha k liaey rab hi he.....ye to hm hain k apney nuksaan ki chezain us se maag letey hain...........verna uska pegham to aa chuka usey kia pasand he us ne to bta diya abb HE KoI JO APNEY KHWAHISHAAT KO USKEY HUKAM K TABEY KAREY ORE USKA BANDA BANEY............

Allah karey k jisko vo itna bara baba mantee he k us k dargha pe janey se uska kaam bun jaey ga to agar dil me shayad Allah ye b daal de k kia vaja he k is baba k mazaar pe teri dua kabool hotee he...........IS babey ne aisa kia kia apni zindagi me.........K ALlah uskey darbaar pe aiey hovoon ki dua kabool krta he.......

Allah to hr trha se apney aap ko samney paish krta he k daikh me hi terha Rab hoon lakin hm itney ghafil hain k hmain mehsoos hi nhi hota.........
 
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such786

Senator (1k+ posts)
mazarron aour dargah per jaa ker apni muradoon kie laie dua karna sub sie bara shirk hie. Allah is the greatest and only one can give u what ever you ask for.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The Faculty of hearing of the Dead

The Faculty of hearing of the Dead

Taken from Mysteries of the Soul Expounded by Abu Bilal Mustafah al-Kanadi
One often wonders about the soul's faculties in the barzakh (the stage between death and the Resurrection). Can it hear? Can it see? Does it have knowledge of certain things going on in the world? In order to answer these and other questions, one must carefully scrutinize the quality of the evidence presented in support of certain claims made by scholars in this field.

THE DECEASED'S FACULTY OF HEARING

It is a common concept among some scholars[1] and others that the dead in their graves have the ability of hearing a visitor's greeting, his supplication, talk, etc.. Such a concept is unfounded, for it has no proof from clear texts of the divine shari'ah. In fact, it is in open contradiction to the unchallengeable texts of the Quran and the authentic traditions of the Prophet (saws) which deny the possibility of the dead possessing this faculty.

PROOF FROM THE QUR'AN AND THE SUNNAH NEGATING IT

There are two unequivocal texts from the Qur'an which deny the possibility of the dead in their graves possessing the faculty of hearing. Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, states :

[Surah an-Naml 27:80]
إِنَّكَ لَا تُسْمِعُ الْمَوْتَىٰ وَلَا تُسْمِعُ الصُّمَّ الدُّعَاءَ إِذَا وَلَّوْا مُدْبِرِينَ

Yusuf Ali 80: Truly thou canst not cause the dead to listen, nor canst thou cause the deaf to hear the call, (especially) when they turn back in retreat.

البتہ تو مردوں کو نہیں سنا سکتا اور نہ بہروں کو اپنی پکارسنا سکتا ہے جب وہ پیٹھ پھیر کر لوٹیں


[Surah Fatir 35:22]

وَمَا يَسْتَوِي الْأَحْيَاءُ وَلَا الْأَمْوَاتُ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُسْمِعُ مَن يَشَاءُ ۖ وَمَا أَنتَ بِمُسْمِعٍ مَّن فِي الْقُبُورِ

Yusuf Ali 22: Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves.
اور زندے اور مردے برابر نہیں ہیں بے شک الله سناتا ہے جسے چاہے اور آپ انہیں سنانے والے نہیں جو قبروں میں ہیں



In the first verse Allah addresses His messenger, Muhamad (saws), reminding him that he cannot make the disbelievers hear the invitation to Islam, for they are like the dead, who do not hear either. In the second verse Allah points to the difference between the living and the dead - they are not all alike. He further clarifies to His prophet that he cannot make the rejectors of faith hear the message (for they are dead in heart and in spirit) any more than he can make those in the graves hear what is spoken to them![2]

Just as the Qur'an denies the possibility of the deceased possessing the faculty of hearing, there are a number of texts in the sunnah which arrive at the same conclusion. One such hadith follows:
Ibn Mas'ud reported that the Prophet (saws) said: "Allah has angels who travel about the earth; they [do and will] convey to me the peace greeting from my ummah." [Authentically reported by Abu Dawud]

This hadith clarifies that the Prophet (saws) does not hear the greetings of peace from Muslims when they pronounce it upon him, for if he could hear it directly, there would be no need of angels to convey it to him. Therefore, it follows that the Prophet (saws) cannot hear other forms of conversation directed to him either;[3] and it stands even more to reason that the deceased, being lesser than the Prophet (saws), also cannot hear the salam (greeting of peace) or any other form of speech.[4] Thus contrary to a popular misconception, because the Messenger (saws) cannot directly hear either one's invocation of blessings[5] or one's salam addressed to him, such greetings may be conveyed to him from anywhere, regardless of the distance or proximity of the greeter to the Prophet's grave. The erroneous belief that the Prophet (saws) hears these greetings directly disregards the previous hadith whcih specifies that the greetings are conveyed to him by the angels, and it is based on a forged tradition whose text follows:

It has been narrated that the Prophet (saws) said: "Whoever asks blessings for me at my grave, I hear him, and whoever asks blessings upon me from afar, it is conveyed to me." [This tradition was mentioned by al-'Uqayli in his book, adh-Dhu'afa and by al-Khateeb, Ibn 'Asakir, et. al., and they all agreed that it is a forged (mawdhu') hadith. See al-Albani's al-Ahadith adh-Dha'eefah, vol.1, hadith no.203]

ALLEGED EVIDENCE AND ITS REFUTATION
In order to refute the allegations which claim that the deceased in the grave possess the faculty of hearing, it is essential to analyze them and discover the means by which such allegations are dependent upon weak and forged traditions and/or due to erroneous interpretattions of various texts.

There are a number of authentic narrations relating the Prophet's address to the corpses of the mushrikeen (polytheists) of Quraysh who were slain by the believers in the Battle of Badr and then thrown into a dried well. The following two examples suffice for the purpose of the present discussion:

Abu Talhah reported: "On the day of the Battle of Badr, Allah's Prophet (saws) ordered that the bodies of twenty-four leaders of the Quraysh be thrown into one of the foul, abandoned wells of Badr. On the third day after the battle the Prophet called for his mount and saddled it. Then he set out, so his companions followed him. They said amongst themselves, "He must be going to something important." When the Prophet (saws) arrived at the well[6], he stood at its edge and began addressing those therein by calling upon them by their names, "O so and so, son of so and so; and you, so and so, son of so and so! Would it not have been easier to have obeyed Allah and His Messenger? We have found that which our Lord promised us to be true[7]. Did you find what your Lord promosed you to be true?[8] Thereupon 'Umar said, "O Messenger of Allah, what are you saying to these bodies without souls?! Do they hear? For Allah, the Majestic and Mighty, says, "Verily, you cannot make the dead hear."[Surah an-Naml 27:80] The Prophet (saws) answered, "By Him in whose hand lies the soul of Muhammad, you did not hear better than them and what i just said." Qatadah[9] added: "Allah brought them back[10] to life (momentarily) in order to make them hear as a means of scorn and belittlement and [so that they would feel] regret and remorse." [Authentically related by al-Bukhari and Muslim]

In another narration of this incident there is a slight variation in the wording of the text which follows:
"Ibn 'Umar related: "The Prophet (saws) stood at the edge of a well[11] at Badr and said, "Did you find the promise of your Lord to be true?" Then he added, "Verily at this moment they hear what I am saying." Later on[12], this was mentioned to 'A'ishah[13], whereupon she commented, "What the Prophet (saws) meant was, "Now they know that what I used to tell them is the truth." Then she recited, "Verily you cannot make the dead hear,"[Surah an-Naml 27:80] up to the end of the verse."[Related authentically by al-Bukhari and others]

Some often misconstrue the texts of the two aforementioned hadiths as proof for the contention that the dead can hear. However, the following argumentation refutes such a claim. This miraculous circumstance in which the corpses of the slain Quraysh were made to hear the Prophet's address to them is a special case - an exception to the general rule that the dead do not hear.[14] By a miracle, Allah, the Almighty, made them hear the scolding from the Prophet (saws) - only for the moment he spoke to them![15] This is clearly proven by the second narration itself, for their hearing was said to be conditioned by the moment when the Prophet (saws) called out to them in scorn and rebuke. He said, "At this moment they hear what I am saying." Furthermore, in the first narration the Prophet (saws) does not deny 'Umar's sound understanding of the verse's general ruling that the does do not hear. Rather, the Prophet (saws) merely clarifies for 'Umar that what occurred at Badr was a divine miracle and, therefore, an exception to the general ruling of the verse.[16]


Another text often quoted by those who believe that the dead can hear is the following tradition:
Anas bin Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (saws) said: "After the deceased is placed in his grave and his companions[17] turn to leave, he hears the shuffling of their feet as they walk away. Then there comes to him the two angels."[Part of an authentic hadith related by al-Bukhari and Muslim]
This text is not valid evidence for the general claim that the dead can hear; rather, this tradition only specifies another exception to the general rule. In this case, the deceased hears the shuffling feet of those who attended his funeral as they walk away. This is a momentary possession of the faculty of hearing which is terminated at the point at which the two questioning angels[18] come to him[19].

From what has preceded, it is abundantly clear that the deceased generally do not have the faculty of hearing, for they are beyond the barrier (barzakh) which separates our world from theirs. This proves the gross error in the thinking of those who attempt to carry on "conversations" with the dead, or worse, petition them for certain things. Petitioning the dead is shirk, and this is indeed the greatest of all sins.

FOOTNOTES :


  1. Among those who erred in this matter are Ibn Abi-Dunya, Ibn 'Abdul-Barr, al-Qurtubi, Ibn al-Qayyim and ash-Shanqeeti.
  2. See Tafseer at-Tabari, vol.21, p.36 and al-Qurtubi's al-Jami, vol.13, p.232
  3. Thus it is absolutely foolish for one to attempt to converse with the Prophet (saws) or others at their graves. To ask them for any form of help is blatant shirk. Such is the misguidance spread by Sufis, who have gone astray.
  4. See al-Ayat al-Bayyinat of al-Alusi, p.37, Published by al-Maktabah al-Islamee [1982]
  5. In Islam, it is encouraged to invoke blessings upon the Prophet (saws) and this commonly follows the mention of his name in one form or another.
  6. Into which the bodies of the slain Quraysh had been thrown earlier.
  7. That is, that the believers would have victory over their enemy, the Quraysh. See al-Qurtubi's tafseer, al-Jami'u li Ahkam al-Qur'an, vol.7, p.370 regarding the information about Surah al-Anfal, 8:7-10.
  8. This is a reference to the Quraysh's supplication asking their Lord to bring a painful punishment upon them if what Muhammad (saws) was preaching was the truth. See Surah al-Anfal, 8:32.
  9. A famouse tabi'ee and a narrator of this hadith
  10. The slain Quraysh who bodies were in the abandoned well.
  11. The same well mentioned earlier into which the bodies of the slain Quraysh were thrown.
  12. Most likely after the Prophet's death.
  13. The beloved wife of the Prophet.
  14. See al-Alusi's Ruh al-Ma'ani, vol.6 p.455
  15. This is confirmed by many of the dependable commentators and jurists. For example, see al-ayat al-Bayyinat, pp.29, 56 and 59.
  16. See al-Ayat al-Bayyinat, pp.30-31
  17. His friends and others who attended his burial.
  18. There names are Munkar and Nakeer, and their fearful appearance has been described earlier in this treatise. <{My note: There is some disagreement amongst scholars some who say that the angels may not really be called Munkar and Nakeer for the words Munkar and Nakeer mean bad things in the Arabic language, whilst the angels are all pure.**>
  19. See al-Ayat al-bayyinat, pp.38 and 56.
Source: http://islamworld.net/docs/deadnohear.html
 

Unicorn

Banned
People go there because they believe there desires may become reality and some go there for salvation I went there for a visit to a Historic place but did not pray, no disrespect, I don't pray to anyone.
 

Unicorn

Banned
I still haven't got any proper answer dude. I will repeat it 'BTW how did you come to know he's a pious person ???????????? Intriguing one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

No history bs allowed. I need a convincing answer to what you claimed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mysti Breed you are one angry dude. He knows so because it is written in the history books.
 

Mysticreed

Banned
mysti Breed you are one angry dude. He knows so because it is written in the history books.

Lol does Babadeena have any guts to come forward and own your words ????????????? Let him come and face the music. Avoid intervening the conversation between us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

IndiaGuy

Senator (1k+ posts)
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Bret Hawk

Senator (1k+ posts)
Br. Babadeena I personally believe that these sort of matters are related to the domain of Islamic metaphysics and therefore required a thorough understanding of such matters before even venturing on to explore their meanings which can become somewhat intelligible for our faculty of reasoning.

The most fundamental question one might ask here is that after the demise of a physical structure of man where does the soul of that deceased get its repose and what connection does that soul can have to this world of living human beings, if any?

What are the properties and attributes of soul in general and which of them get into an active mode or remain in that state of activity after its departure from the physical body of the human being?

What is a fundamental difference between the death of an ordinary individual and of that which is presumed to be the chosen dear one of Almighty and what could be the condition of their respective states after passing from one stage of life to an another one?

And finally in case of any activity of the deceased’s soul would that be able to involve, to play an effective role of intercession between the ordinary mortals and The Almighty or not? If the answer is in affirmative then what would be the modality of that mystical intervention of those supposed pious and exalted souls and if the answer would be in negative then why it can’t be possible to play that positive role?

I think without asking these crucial questions and to get to their answers in a clear and crystalline manner one has to probe deeply into roots of Islamic dogma, theology and philosophy in its canonical texts and only then we would be able to answer the fundamental questions like intercession and its viability according to the view points of Islamic teachings and principles.

The rest of the debate which relates to the issue of an individual’s background and the nature of his demands and supplications towards the particular sage & mystic of a Divine faith like Islam should be catered after getting some degree of grasping on the metaphysical points of Islam which has been alluded in the above lines of this post.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
There are two unequivocal texts from the Qur'an which deny the possibility of the dead in their graves possessing the faculty of hearing. Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, states :

[Surah an-Naml 27:80]
إِنَّكَ لَا تُسْمِعُ الْمَوْتَىٰ وَلَا تُسْمِعُ الصُّمَّ الدُّعَاءَ إِذَا وَلَّوْا مُدْبِرِينَ

Yusuf Ali 80: Truly thou canst not cause the dead to listen, nor canst thou cause the deaf to hear the call, (especially) when they turn back in retreat.

البتہ تو مردوں کو نہیں سنا سکتا اور نہ بہروں کو اپنی پکارسنا سکتا ہے جب وہ پیٹھ پھیر کر لوٹیں



[Surah Fatir 35:22]

وَمَا يَسْتَوِي الْأَحْيَاءُ وَلَا الْأَمْوَاتُ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُسْمِعُ مَن يَشَاءُ ۖ وَمَا أَنتَ بِمُسْمِعٍ مَّن فِي الْقُبُورِ

Yusuf Ali 22: Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves.
اور زندے اور مردے برابر نہیں ہیں بے شک الله سناتا ہے جسے چاہے اور آپ انہیں سنانے والے نہیں جو قبروں میں ہیں

Br. Babadeena I personally believe that these sort of matters are related to the domain of Islamic metaphysics and therefore required a thorough understanding of such matters before even venturing on to explore their meanings which can become somewhat intelligible for our faculty of reasoning.

The most fundamental question one might ask here is that after the demise of a physical structure of man where does the soul of that deceased get its repose and what connection does that soul can have to this world of living human beings, if any?

What are the properties and attributes of soul in general and which of them get into an active mode or remain in that state of activity after its departure from the physical body of the human being?

What is a fundamental difference between the death of an ordinary individual and of that which is presumed to be the chosen dear one of Almighty and what could be the condition of their respective states after passing from one stage of life to an another one?

And finally in case of any activity of the deceased’s soul would that be able to involve, to play an effective role of intercession between the ordinary mortals and The Almighty or not? If the answer is in affirmative then what would be the modality of that mystical intervention of those supposed pious and exalted souls and if the answer would be in negative then why it can’t be possible to play that positive role?

I think without asking these crucial questions and to get to their answers in a clear and crystalline manner one has to probe deeply into roots of Islamic dogma, theology and philosophy in its canonical texts and only then we would be able to answer the fundamental questions like intercession and its viability according to the view points of Islamic teachings and principles.

The rest of the debate which relates to the issue of an individual’s background and the nature of his demands and supplications towards the particular sage & mystic of a Divine faith like Islam should be catered after getting some degree of grasping on the metaphysical points of Islam which has been alluded in the above lines of this post.
 
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