Did Quaid-e-Azam Want Islam in Pakistan ?

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
There was no point in partitioning the subcontinent if the Quaid did not want Islam in Pak. What he did not want was Mullahism that today has become Islam in Pak. After the Quaid Pakistan was hijacked by ignorant, uneducated and corrupt Mullah's. The Quaid did not live long enough to pass on his idea's to the new and educated generation. India on the other hand had Nehru who died in 1964 well after independence overlooking the entire movement.
 
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Danish99

Senator (1k+ posts)
What is Islamic system,how to choose a head of estate in islam,how to run a modern country with interest free loans,as borrowing is heram from forign countries,then how we can run the country with out money.
 

atensari

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
What is Islamic system,how to choose a head of estate in islam,how to run a modern country with interest free loans,as borrowing is heram from forign countries,then how we can run the country with out money.
if you want to know search youtube "dr israr ahmed modern islami state". after listening you can agree or disagree with him.
 

wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
What is Islamic system,how to choose a head of estate in islam,how to run a modern country with interest free loans,as borrowing is heram from forign countries,then how we can run the country with out money.
Islam doesn't recomend any hard & fast governance structure (Khalafat/Kingship, Parliamentary System). It only directs governance within the bounds/limits Allah Subhanahu's has laid down in Quran, explained, practiced, and conveyed by the Final Messenger (S.A.W). You have to choose modus operandi according your needs, culture, and circumstances.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Jinnah was a member of Congress and had no problem with a Secular India. The problem arose when it became clear to Jinnah that India wont be a secular state but rather a Hindu state. Therefore he started Pakistan movement as a separate secular state where Muslims would be free from the Hindu oppression that happened during British Raj under Hindu Govt.

There was no point in partitioning the subcontinent if the Quaid did not want Islam in Pak. What he did not want was Mullahism that today has become Islam in Pak. After the Quaid Pakistan was hijacked by ignorant, uneducated and corrupt Mullah's. The Quaid did not live long enough to pass on his idea's to the new and educated generation. India on the other hand had Nehru who died in 1964 well after independence overlooking the entire movement.
 

atensari

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Jinnah was a member of Congress and had no problem with a Secular India. The problem arose when it became clear to Jinnah that India wont be a secular state but rather a Hindu state. Therefore he started Pakistan movement as a separate secular state where Muslims would be free from the Hindu oppression that happened during British Raj under Hindu Govt.
قائد اعظم مسلمانان ہند کا مقدمہ لڑنے کے لئے علامہ اقبال کے وکیل تھے. انہوں نے اسی پاکستان کا مقدمہ لڑا جس کی تعبیر علامہ اقبال کا مقصود تھی
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Jinnah was a member of Congress and had no problem with a Secular India. The problem arose when it became clear to Jinnah that India wont be a secular state but rather a Hindu state. Therefore he started Pakistan movement as a separate secular state where Muslims would be free from the Hindu oppression that happened during British Raj under Hindu Govt.
Initially the Quaid had no problem with secularism until he saw the Hindu's wanted everything for themselves. After meeting Allama Iqbal the Quaid revisited his views then changed his mind. This was also due to a divine experience he had where the Prophet of Allah (saw) commanded him to form Pakistan. We are always free to change our mind in life according to the circumstances. Nothing is ever written in stone. Today we see that India is indeed controlled by Hindu fascists like Mr Jinnah had foretold. Allama Iqbal was also once an Indian patriot even writing "Sare jahan se acha" before he realised his errors.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I don't think he changed his mind and his speeches until his death show that (he talked about separation state and religion which is definition of secularism). Hindus didnt want secular India thats why he separated from Hindus so he can form a secular state for Muslims just like Ataturk did for Turks or Theodor Herzyl did for Jews.

After Jinnah's death what corrupt generals and politicians did with his legacy and his sister is infront of us, his speeches have been lost, the constitutions that he was working on there is no trace of it, only thing we remember of him is his face. He was a man who was 100 years ahead of this time and probably until 2048 there wont be a leader in Pakistan with a vision like him. This Imran Khan Madina ki riyasat are just jahalat and bongiyan. Jinnah was the true visionary that this country has never seen since, just like since Roosevelt of USA there hasnt been real US leadership since 1945.

If Pakistan was build on his vision our society would be no different from South Korea, Taiwan or Japan. Interms of economy and standards of living. We would have left India behind decades ago. We could still keep our modest and Islamic culture but these molvis who have destroyed our society wouldnt be as much of a curse as they have become now.


Initially the Quaid had no problem with secularism until he saw the Hindu's wanted everything for themselves. After meeting Allama Iqbal the Quaid revisited his views then changed his mind. This was also due to a divine experience he had where the Prophet of Allah (saw) commanded him to form Pakistan. We are always free to change our mind in life according to the circumstances. Nothing is ever written in stone. Today we see that India is indeed controlled by Hindu fascists like Mr Jinnah had foretold. Allama Iqbal was also once an Indian patriot even writing "Sare jahan se acha" before he realised his errors.
 
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Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I don't think he changed his mind and his speeches until his death show that. Hindus didnt want secular India thats why he separated from Hindus so he can form a secular state for Muslims just like Ataturk did for Turks or Zionists did for Israel (which was supported by Jinnah and his support for allies during WW2 won him favor with British).
You need to know what his last words were before dying that Pak is to become and Islamic state. Many if not most Hindus particularly Congress that the Quaid was once a part off do and always did want a secular state. As said before there is no doubt the Quaid after maturing wanted an Islamic state. He may have initially supported secularism but later wanted none off it. Thing is most Pakistanis have no idea what an Islamic state is.
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Islam is not a culture but a belief. This is what we must return to if Pak is ever to become a successful country. We do however need to get rid of Arabism that has taken over our indigenous culture. We can see even the Quaid and Allama Iqbal were not Arabinized Muslims but Pakistani and British in terms of dress code. In the 1960's even 1970's we were well ahead of India then the USSR invasion of Afghanistan changed everything in our country.

It is the military that has kept our country together thus far otherwise we'd be history. There may be gamblers, alcoholics and womanisers in the army yet i respect them for fighting and giving their life for the country. It is easy to sit behind a laptop and criticize them calling them all sorts of names. There is no evidence at all that the army was responsible for killing his sister where as your claims of his pro secular speeches being lost is just fabrication. I could also say his pro Islamic speeches have been lost too.

I am not a fan of Imran Khan the politician but will say he is the best choice we have for now. There is no one better unless you consider Nawaz, Shahbaaz, Maryam or Zardari as being honest candidates. Once more if the Quaid had wanted secularism he wouldn't have demanded a Pakistan, simple. Those people who witnessed his end have openly spoken of his wish of making Pakistan Islamic if you understand what that means.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Islam is not a culture but a belief.
It is a belief for religious Muslims not for secular Muslims. Just like Judaism is a belief for Orthodox Jews but a culture for secular Jews.

It is the military that has kept our country together thus far otherwise we'd be history.
During military rule we have sold half of our rivers to India, lost Kargil in 1971. Lost Siachen Glacier since 1984. Not to mention losing half of our economy and population to put icing on the cake.

Bhutto who destroyed the economy through nationalization and Nawaz who has been inflicted upon us since last 3 decades are products of military. Yahya split the country by mishandling Indian spy named Sheikh Mujeeb ur Rehman. Zia Ul Haq is root of extremism and sectarianism that has torn this country apart.

Corruption of military is nothing compared to corruption of politicians. Defending their country is their duty and it doesn't mean they get immunity from the bad things they do. US military protects its country but at the same time lets democracy to do its thing.

It is easy to sit behind a laptop and criticize them calling them all sorts of names.
They are not holy cows anyone who does wrong should be open to criticizm, if criticizing something is blasphemy then that means daal me kuch kala hai.

There is no evidence at all that the army was responsible for killing his sister
I never claimed that. But the way Ayub dishonored her during election campaign with vile accusations is infront of everyone.

where as your claims of his pro secular speeches being lost is just fabrication.
Find me his speech where he said religion has nothing to do with running of the state. It was one of the most important speeches he made and it was highly censored. Find me any writings on Pakistan's new constitution. He was a lawyer after all.

I could also say his pro Islamic speeches have been lost too.
Maybe, but if there were any people would have mentioned them like the one in which he declares Pakistan to be a secular state when he says religion has nothing to do with the running of the State.

I am not a fan of Imran Khan the politician but will say he is the best choice we have for now.
I dont disagree with that. Thanks to military they never allowed Pakistan's civilian leadership to mature.

Once more if the Quaid had wanted secularism he wouldn't have demanded a Pakistan, simple.
He demanded Pakistan because he wanted secularism, since it was clear to him that Hindus would not allow India to be secular. The trend in those days was not towards Shariah but towards secularism. This Mullahism has started since 1970s, if Jinnah wanted Shariah law he would have said it, instead he called for separation of state and religion which is definition of secularism. But if he did call for Shariah, that would have made him a hypocrite because both himself and Allama Iqbal drank alcohol and didnt follow Shariah. Iqbal was a frequent visited of brothels in Lahore. They both had a very secular lifestyle.

In a society where there is Hindutva law and Shariah law there can be no freedom of religion and there can be no equality. Non-Hindus or Non-Muslims will always be seen as second class citizens.
 
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Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Can you provide source for that? I always read he spoke about a State for Muslims. Not an Islamic State. The two are very different things.

You need to know what his last words were before dying that Pak is to become and Islamic state.
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
It is a belief for religious Muslims not for secular Muslims. Just like Judaism is a belief for Orthodox Jews but a culture for secular Jews.


During military rule we have sold half of our rivers to India, lost Kargil in 1971. Lost Siachen Glacier since 1984. Not to mention losing half of our economy and population to put icing on the cake.

Bhutto who destroyed the economy through nationalization and Nawaz who has been inflicted upon us since last 3 decades are products of military. Yahya split the country by mishandling Indian spy named Sheikh Mujeeb ur Rehman. Zia Ul Haq is root of extremism and sectarianism that has torn this country apart.

Corruption of military is nothing compared to corruption of politicians. Defending their country is their duty and it doesn't mean they get immunity from the bad things they do. US military protects its country but at the same time lets democracy to do its thing. The Bhuto and all Pak politicians have always been corrupt which is why the military rightfully erevene



They are not holy cows anyone who does wrong should be open to criticizm, if criticizing something is blasphemy then that means daal me kuch kala hai.



I never claimed that. But the way Ayub dishonored her during election campaign with vile accusations is infront of everyone.



Find me his speech where he said religion has nothing to do with running of the state. It was one of the most important speeches he made and it was highly censored. Find me any writings on Pakistan's new constitution. He was a lawyer after all.



Maybe, but if there were any people would have mentioned them like the one in which he declares Pakistan to be a secular state when he says religion has nothing to do with the running of the State.



I dont disagree with that. Thanks to military they never allowed Pakistan's civilian leadership to mature.



He demanded Pakistan because he wanted secularism, since it was clear to him that Hindus would not allow India to be secular. The trend in those days was not towards Shariah but towards secularism. This Mullahism has started since 1970s, if Jinnah wanted Shariah law he would have said it, instead he called for separation of state and religion which is definition of secularism. But if he did call for Shariah, that would have made him a hypocrite because both himself and Allama Iqbal drank alcohol and didnt follow Shariah. Iqbal was a frequent visited of brothels in Lahore. They both had a very secular lifestyle.

In a society where there is Hindutva law and Shariah law there can be no freedom of religion and there can be no equality. Non-Hindus or Non-Muslims will always be seen as second class citizens.
Stop your 200 boring lines that have nothing to do with the debate like "we lost Kargil" rubbish. If you love India so much then go there and take your secularism with you! We are not talking about history so stick to the subject or shut up! The subject is what the Quaid wanted in case it has missed you! I hate it when Indian boot lickers and self haters like you change the subject. We beat them up in Kargil and 65 too.

Islam is a belief for all Muslims as far as I know otherwise it is nothing, secularism is a political system not a spiritual belief. The likes of Bhutto have always been corrupt which is why the military has to intervene, it was because of him that we lost the 71 war much more then anything else. All Pak politicians have never done the job they were supposed to leading to internal problems. Your attempts to be some intellectual and historian are embarrassing.

There is no immunity for anyone only that good and bad soldiers exist in every army. We have our share of them too yet they are also the ones who defend the country when needed most when people like you are watching TV and Nawaz Sharif having holidays. Soldiers are people not angel's that you expect them to be. Teri daal kaali hogi where as mines is very tasty! Once more don't derail the debate here about Ayub or who said what 200 years back. If you love India so much there then fk off there, we don't need traitors like you.

There are many speeches the Quaid said that are unavailable now. What we have is many people who witnessed his final days telling us he wanted an Islamic system in the country. His speech that we are free to worship whatever we want is not to suggest he is a secularist at all. Now no matter what I provide you will reject it so no point in doing that. One such person was Dr Israr Ahmed who often spoke on this subject. Islam is not a religion which is why he said it has nothing to do with the running of the state, it is a deen not a religion. This is what confuses people like you.

The Pak civilian governments like Nawaz and Zardari have only looted the people. The whole world knows that apart from you, removing them was indeed the correct thing to do. What we need is a Presidential system taking care of such matters, permanently. Just because democracy suits the west does not mean it is the ideal system for Pak too. We will continue to go in circles until an Islamic Presidential system is implemented. This is why our politicians like Nawaz and co get away with murder, in an Islamic system they would have been hanged by now just like Bhutto.

Most Hindu's do want secularism even today. Congress followers and their leaders like Rahul Gandhi want it too failing to understand it will not resolve their problems either. This is why India has s many independence movements where as you are regretting the creation of Pak it seems or want for it to be secular. No, no and never...Pak was formed in the name of Islam and too it will return otherwise we will continue to suffer as a people then eventually disappear.

No the Mullahism is a consequence of the USSR invasion of Afghanistan which resulted in extremism when we sent fighters next door. We had to do that at the time otherwise the Russians were ready to cross the border most likely taking Peshawar. So I do many things against Islam as well, many great Islamic thinkers have consumed liquor throughout history. If the like of Sir Allama and the Quaid did is not to be seen as rejecting Islamic law. They were living in a non Muslim land when indulging in such things.

Hindu's are mistreated in Pak because we are not an Islamic state. We don't really know what we are!
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Its not rubbish, Pakistan had control of many areas in Kargil after 1948 but we lost it in 1971 war. Educate yourself on your own history.

Stop your 200 boring lines that have nothing to do with the debate like "we lost Kargil" rubbish.
 
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