Do humans have needed knowledge to discuss God, revelation and creation properly?

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The quran is the only book of deen of islam that is revealed by God for mankind to live by. All other books in the world today are written by people. This fact can be verified by anyone by reading those books. Since the quran is the only book that claims to be a revelation from God therefore it occupies the topmost place of authority in deen of islam. This is why any book that contradicts the quran its contradictory statement are not acceptable in deen of islam at all. All other books in deen of islam are written by people therefore they are not equal to the quran at all. The quran is the criterion or benchmark or yardstick or standard whereby all other sources of information are to be judged by. The quran is a standalone book in deen of islam. This is why if anyone uses any other source of information to condemn the quran then one cannot do that because the quran is the only primary source of information in deen of islam without any other higher or equal authority. Whether the quran is actual word of God or not will be explained later as to how to understand its verses and which points within the quran prove it word of God. This explanation is just for showing proper priority order of sources in deen of islam.

Other sources of deen of islam are secondary sources and they play their parts in deen of islam in their own way and that is how they also can help understand deen of islam in their own way. Other sources of information are called hadis books. Since islam is a way of life and way of life is about living in the kingdom of God by rule of law of God therefore whatever we find in the hadis books about deen of islam stands and anything else is not that important as things related to rule of law of God are. This also explains the proper context of sunnah of the final messenger of God. The idea that anything the last messenger of God said or did or tolerated is a sunnah has nothing at all to do with deen of islam. Why not? It is because it is impossible for anyone to record all things anyone says or does in detail by anyone. If one does not believe this please try it out yourself by spending an hour with someone and report all that was said or done by that person to each and every second to each and every minute detail. Soon you will realise problems with this idea. One will soon realise the fact that important things are only those which are relevant to the mission of the messenger of God and not all his sayings and doings. We humans are not that attentive that we can capture each and everything in all its possible detail when someone says and does something. In fact when we are looking in the front we do not know what is happening behind us and likewise when we focus our hearing to listen to one person we cannot make out what anyone else is talking about. This is why reports about the messenger of God cannot be that reliable, particularly the ones that are not relevant to the mission of the messenger of God. This is why only such reports about the messenger of God are important to a degree which were to some degree related to deen of islam issues. Rest of reports are only extra information and that is also good if proves to be genuine according to an acceptable clear cut criterion.

A messenger is sent by God on a mission so what is relevant to mission is important and not each and everything he says or does in his life. This is why people who bring in all sorts of things in the name of messenger of God and imitate them only waste their time during which they ought to be doing what needs to done, Doing irrelevant things take away time from doing relevant things ie you can only do one or the other at a time. Since mission of messenger of God was to deliver the quran to people and call or invite them to deen of islam so he had to do that and then wait for their response to see if they will come together to form a proper human community in the kingdom of God or not. So the messenger of God delivered the quran to people and then waited for them to respond and they did. When he had enough people to form a proper human community network he did that and then he kept expanding that community with the help of newcomers. This is how any movement starts and spreads if it has for them what people need or want. Sensible people come together and discuss things and try to understand what the movement is all about and where it is going to take them and how it is going to get them there. Saying certain words to enter a group or praying and fasting cannot be a movement to benefit anyone. This is the major difference between deen of islam and different versions of religion and secularism. Since the context in which islamic sources need to be looked at or into has been explained so no point in talking about irrelevant things or things that have nothing at all to do with deen of islam.

This should explain what is meant by sunnah of the final messenger of God in its proper context ie how he fulfilled his God assigned mission This is what supporters of his mission are supposed to be doing today. Therefore anything else people say or do has nothing at all to do with deen of islam or God or his book or his messenger.

Deen of islam is anti religion and anti secularism but why?

It is because religion and secularism both are man-made and deen of islam is revealed by God to replace them. As I explained already, religion and secularism are almost as old as mankind themselves because mankind were not given guidance by God till human beings could understand things and some were able to make proper sense of it. Early humans learned what they learned from natural world because they did not have any other source of learning save their brains and senses and things with which they could interact within their own environments ie they learned things by interacting with things just like human babies learn by playing with their toys etc. This is why they lived just like other animals but as they interacted with each other and other things within their environments, they did learn a lot of sense but it was not enough to help them live in this world properly till God gave humanity his guidance. People did eventually believed in a higher force or being even before God formerly introduced himself to mankind but they assumed a God who was just like their family or clan or tribe leader who solved their problems at will at random rather than consistently and properly. Later local leaders became rulers, kings and emperors. They did at will as they liked with their people. This is why earlier people made no distinction between God and their rulers when it came to their interacting with each other. To them rulers were like God and God was like rulers for them. This is why even today rulers are treated with utmost respect and reverence as if they are Gods of people and God is only an imaginary being for them whop is in full control of them at al times. This is how they invented their anti God beliefs and ritual practices and called it religion. They separated God through religion and fully came under power of rulers due to tricks and mechanisms of rulers. This is how animal kingdom shows us our past very clearly and we are still like those animals even today. God sent revelation is still ignored by humanity at large regarding its proper understanding because rulers always interpreted the messages of God the way it suited them through employing their own religious leaders instead of trying to make proper sense of it. This is why due to lack of proper education humanity has been going through bloody revolutions every now and then to change things for the better by force. In other words people have been learning things the hard way instead of learning sense of making proper sense of things the right way. This is why despite having guidance from God and many messengers from God almost all people are still as ignorant and stupid about message of God as the very early human beings were who were given the message of God the very first time.

Messengers of God were sent by God to establish rule of law of God in this world and they succeeded in doing that but only in very limited areas and only for a short time because people turned back to their old ways of life after their God sent messengers passed away. The very same happen with the people who claim to be supporters of mission of the final messenger of God ie people who call themselves muslims. This is why even after the final messenger of God established the ummah in the kingdom of God it also fell apart not long after messenger of God because people failed to keep up with the maintenance of the ummah in the kingdom of God. This is why even though we have the quran we have no ummah but only in the name till humanity comes to its senses and learns the quran as it ought to be learned once again to reunite to regain unity, peace, progress and prosperity. This should help people understand why muslims are the way they are and this is not going to change till each and every person who claims to be a muslim starts learning the quran properly. This is why almost all people who claim to be muslims are religious muslims not actual muslims based upon the proper teachings of the quran and the reason is they do not study the quran as it ought to be studied for establishing an ummah in the kingdom of God. People who claim to be muslims are as ignorant about the message of God as any nonmuslim people. This is why muslims and nonmuslims are all living like animals in a jungle because that is how senseless people are supposed to live without proper guidance from God or without proper understanding of guidance from God. This is why the human world despite all its amazing inventions it has invented is still just like a kingdom of animals who still do not know how to live properly with one another and it will not know how to do that till it rediscovers message of God properly for itself because only and only message of God can ensure unity, peace, progress and prosperity of mankind as a proper human community in the kingdom of God and nothing else.

Why five daily prayers are wrong? It is because they are not stated in the quran. Why they are not stated in the quran? Because God did not create mankind to humiliate them just as he himself does not want to be called by bad names for he wants mutual respect between himself and mankind. Just as God wants to be appreciated by mankind so God himself appreciates mankind also. God is not a monster or tyrant or a cruel oppressor. This is why the whole process of creation of God needs to be looked at in a purposeful way in its entirety. This is why God rewards all for whatever part they play in his scheme of things. This is why God does not want pooja from mankind through empty lip service and useless ritual practices which benefit neither God nor mankind. He does not want empty lip service and flattering from mankind but actual appreciation from mankind by giving them things that truly make him appreciable for mankind. I will try and explain words a bit later as to what they mean in the proper context of the quran including word SHUKR from root SHEEN, KAAF and RAA which means appreciation by means of proper use of God given things. Moreover it makes no sense the way people pray to God or say thank you God without doing the actual thing God demands ie proper use of his provided things for benefit of mankind. God has told people what he wants of them in the quran. What God wants of people could not be known by people all by themselves unless God himself told them, this is why understanding the quran properly is absolutely necessary for mankind otherwise they can think and do all they like but it will not fulfil the purpose for which God has created and equipped mankind with all the tools and things to work with. This is why proper understanding of the quran cannot be ignored if people want to have a great life in here and in hereafter. This is why whatever people think and do in the name of God out side of the quran all by themselves is not valid at all in the eyes of God and it hardly benefits humanity itself.

So first of all let us see what so called praying to God involves. It has two parts. Part one involves praising God ie saying nice things about God to God as if to flatter God by paying lip service to God. Why I say lip service? It is because we humans do not try to learn things which could help us understand the quran properly so that we could know what God wants of us to think and do. This is why we do not do things God has told us to do and we do things which he has told us not to do. Yet we turn towards God and say things to God about God which do not mean anything at all. Moreover God has created us to serve him by thinking and doing whatever he has asked us to think and do and not to make God our servant by asking God to do this or that and the other for us. We do this as if we are not workers or servants of God rather it is God who is our worker or servant. God has created us for serving his purpose and not for God to serve our purposes which we have created in our own minds independent of God. The fact is, we humans have already been given by God each and everything we will ever need for doing our job assigned to us by God. This being the case, how right could people be in saying things to God about God or for asking him for favours? This will become clearer once I have explained this issue for people to help them understand it. In a way we are turning things upside down. Such like are the reasons as to why the quranic teaching is anti religion and anti secularism.

Regardless the other part of praying to God involves asking God each and everything we want from him ie we have a very long lists of our demands to put before God. All this is useless because God has already given humanity what it needs for fulfilling purpose of God for which he has created them. It therefore makes absolutely no sense to ask God for things which we already have from God including his guidance regarding proper use of those God given things for our benefits as a proper human community in the kingdom of God. So if after God has given things to us if any of us still do not have them then it is not because of God but because we have not learned the needed sense as to how to manage God given things properly as a proper human community in the kingdom of God so that none of us suffers and all of us have a great life. It is human beings who make one another suffer terribly by hands of each other due to our ignorance about our God assigned purpose of life. This explains why human beings cannot criticise God about things for which he is not responsible because he has made humanity itself responsible for thinking and doing things for one another. We also need to think that by asking God for doing things for us we are treating God as if he is our servant instead of we humans being servants or workers of God. We have turned each and everything God has told us upside down by misinterpreting his message. It is because we do not look at things objectively and purposefully in their own proper context. Our fault is we are not trying to understanding the real world realities in their proper context which is to look at things in light of revelation of God.

Our idea of education is very wrong in a way because we think education is all about knowing about things as to what they are or how they work and then copy that and do the same etc etc. If I learn how to make an aeroplane it does not teach me what is actual proper use of an aeroplane in a social context ie how I should interact with other human beings properly. Same is true if I make a medicine, This is why despite having loads of medicines we still let people suffer terribly and then die because of our withholding medicines from each other deliberately, so where does that lead us? All because we think it is our individual copyright or our intellectual property etc etc. How can we be such stupid people when God has gifted us with all we have for the proper use of all of us? Did God claim any copyrights for giving us things we have? We did not invent anything out of nothing at all rather all we have was already there when we were born. We ourselves were created by God and things we have were also created by God. All we have done is dismantled God made things and reassembled them the way they could benefit us. But when it comes to our benefits for doing that we have decided to withhold things from each other which only and only leads us to fights and wars with each other over those things which were not really our own to begin with rather they were given to us by God for serving his purpose which was to ensure well being of all human beings in this universe. This is why we need a way of life which helps us organise and regulate ourselves in a way that we end up ensuring well being of each other with help and full support of each other. This is where the quran provides us with an undisputable solid foundation if we could prepare ourselves for its proper understanding. We only dispute about the message of God because we ourselves have not learned to understand it properly. We choose such leaders as use us abusively against each other due to our own ignorance and stupidity. We use our available time in wrong things which leads us into more and more stupidity which in turn makes us do more and more stupid things to each other and that is how human world keeps getting worse and worse instead of getting better and better. This is why what we need to learn about is proper way of life which helps us live in this world the right way ie the way God intended for us and for which he guided us through his messages.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This is why no matter how much educated we become or no matter how many Phds we acquire so long as we remain confused about living properly in this world none of our inventions can help us live sensibly no matter how long we keep going along this path we have invented and imposed upon each other. For living properly in this world only and only God can help us do that but only if we let God do so by learning his message properly. So long as we will keep God out of our equation of life we will keep on making our lives hell and that is the context in which God talks in the quran regarding hell and paradise ie if you will live in this world the way God says then your life will become a paradise as a proper human community in kingdom of God or if you will live any way you like then wait till you end up making your lives hell by quarrelling with one another. So what God is telling us is very clear that you live for ensuring well being of one another as a proper human community then soon you will have a great life in this world by your own hard works but if you will work against well being of each other then gradually your world will deteriorate and eventually become a hellhole for yourselves. It is not God who punishes people but people themselves think and do all sorts of terrible things to each other for their petty personal gains at each other's expense and then complains and blame God for all that they themselves do to each other. This is why understanding the very first surah of the quran properly is very important and so are the very last surahs. God is praiseworthy because he has given people a way of life which could help them live a great life in this world as well as to have a great life in hereafter as a reward for it. This is why mankind must seek refuge in the way of life revealed by God for them and not follow way of life the shaitaan wants us to follow. I will talk about shaitaan and jinns and angels etc at some other time as to what these words mean in the proper context of the quran. The quran was not revealed so that foolish people make fun of it and burn it but so that mankind learn sense from it and do what is told and have a great life experience in this world and so that then they could be rewarded for their such hard works in hereafter as well.

This is why before people read the quran they need to prepare themselves for its proper understanding. One should be able to see from this explanation how silly arabs look when they fail to understand the quran. It is because the quran has its own language that is totally different from what arabs know. It is a higher level of use of human language by God which is purpose based and this is why none can bring a book like the quran. Till people enable themselves to think at a higher level the quran requires, they cannot understand the quran even if they are arabs. The quran teaches people that they are all workers as far as God is concern and if they will work for fulfilling the purpose God has created them for then their lives will become great but not otherwise no matter how hard they work and no matter how long they go down that way. As I have explained already, living by religion can lead humanity nowhere. Why not? Because religion has nothing at all to do with real world realities instead it is all about empty words and irrelevant ritualistic practices that have no benefits for God or mankind. People can sit and pray to God all they like but nothing can change because God has created this world on basis of cause and effect chain. This is why if one wants a child one has to go through a process whereby one can get a child. No matter how much one cries to God one will not get a child otherwise, because this is not the way God has setup this universe and things in it to work. Likewise no hungry can get food unless one goes through the related process for getting food. God has set up systems and structure as well as he has dictated procedures and practices so none can get anything unless one understands the way laws of nature operate or control or govern the operation of the natural world and things in it.

If no version of religion can give us anything, can any version of secularism and to what extent or degree? Yes, secularism can give us some things to some degree but not to the degree deen of islam can. Secularism can only give us things on basis of personal gains at each other's expense at the most and not on any other basis. It is because through idea of individualism people only and only work for themselves and not for each other or for ensuring well being of each other. In such a society only and only those people succeed who have what it takes to succeed and not those who are relatively less advantaged. This is why the more advantaged people take undue advantages of those who are less advantaged than themselves in some respects which creates a serious divide between those who have and those who have not ie rich and poor. This being the case as numbers of those who are less advantaged increases there comes about a terrible bloody revolution. This is why to avoid this situation the number of poor and the level of poverty is controlled fully by those who have or are powerful and wealthy through various tricks and mechanisms they employ or use to make fool of others. This is what forces so called successful individuals to contribute to their societies to remain in positions of power and have wealth at their disposal. Therefore even if they contribute anything to their societies it is only because if they will not then people who have hard life will get upset and revolt or rise up against them and their set up system and topple it. So rich and powerful people have organised and regulated their societies to keep things under their control as much as they can but natural world is under control of set up systems and laws of God which keeps upsetting their artificially created balance or equilibrium always and forces change upon people be they powerful and rich or powerless and poor. This is why so far no human being has managed to control humanity fully and none ever will.

In other words God has set up this world in such a way that mankind can never take full control of it and take it totally in the wrong direction rather whatever people think and do will always lead the world in the right direction be it bit by bit or in very, very small steps. However God wants people to learn sense and move in the right direction quickly. It is a case of two babies who are put in two different environments. One is never sent to school and the other who is sent to school. One who is sent to school will learn things very fast due to being taught things compared to the one who has never been to school. Likewise people who will learn the quran properly will succeed and those who will not will move very, very slowly on this journey of learning or discovery. The while humanity by passes the quran this situation will prevail or continue till people turn to the quran for their guidance by learning the required or needed sense. This is why the quran is a proper teacher for mankind but this teacher has its own way of interacting with people. The quran is a teacher because it points out things for people to learn about them or that it acts as a stimulus for them to inspire or urge or encourage or motivate them. If we look at the process of teaching and learning as to how we are taught we will see it is the very same way. What a teacher does is, points out things for us to consider and then we ourselves try and figure them out in our own minds in order to try and understand them or figure them out all by ourselves. The very same applies in case of the quran ie it too brings different things to our attention for figuring them out the best we can. So thinking that the quran is an old useless book is not the right way of looking at the quran because it is a very useful book for humanity once it is understood properly in its own proper context by mankind. The basic point the quran makes is, don't live for yourself or for each other but instead live for sake of fulfilling the purpose for which God has created you. This explanation clearly shows limitations of religion and secularism in comparison to way of life advised by God in the quran for humanity for living in this world properly. This is why no human can bring about a way of life like the one the quran suggests let alone any better way of life than the quran. This is why no human being can write a book like the quran even today.

This explanation clearly shows religion is invented and used by rulers and money lenders as scapegoat with help of their stooges called mullaans because where the rulers and money lenders fail to provide masses with what they need or want they make or can excuses to them by saying things are in the hands of God so go and pray to God so that God could put things right for you etc etc. Because masses do not realise things the way they should, they turn to religious leaders for solutions of their problem by God instead of turning against their rulers and money lenders for misleading them or leading them into this terrible situation. This is why they need to turn to the book of God which shows them how to get out of this ruler, money lender and mullah invented confusion called religion. This leaves them totally vulnerable and open to abuses and manipulations by both leaders ie religious as well as secular due to confusion or trap they have create for masses. This is how the quran clearly exposes all kinds of governing systems people have come up with and have adopted so far, be it imperialism or dictatorship or authoritarianism or capitalism or communism or socialism etc etc. None of these can give people what the quranic governing system can give them. It is because all of these ideologies people live by are based upon personal gains for a few at the expense of all others therefore at the expense of proper human community. This is why one should be able to see why one has to study the quran widely and in depth to get the hang of it. This clearly shows why islam is not and cannot be a religion or secularism etc etc. The so called religion islam has been invented by foolish mullahs on behalf of foolish rulers and money lenders to confuse people in the very name of one true God so that the real way of life called deen of islam could be kept hidden from the eyes of the uneducated masses so that that way masses could be used abusively by rulers, money lenders and mullaans without any reaction or bloody revolution by the abused masses. This explanation should leave no doubt in minds of people as to what actual deen of islam really is. It has nothing at all to do with islam of rulers, money lenders, mullaans, their touts and supporters.

This explanation also explains very clearly that deen of islam is all about well being of humanity from the very beginning to the very end provided people understand it properly and adopt it faithfully. This is why deen of islam is from God for ensuring well being of humanity therefore it is about human society, its politics, its culture and its economics and it has nothing at all to do with prayers to God. It has its own governing systems, structures, procedures and practices. Deen of islam is all about people themselves organising and regulating themselves upon its basis for managing God given land and resources or means of production and distribution as a family for serving God and that is what the quran calls IBAADAH or serving one true God and this has nothing at all to do with pooja of God by people and their singing songs to God and doing nothing except rubbing their noses on the ground and waving their bottoms in the air and feeling good that they have done their part. Muslim cannot take over a people by sword unless forced to do so by nonmuslims because deen of islam is all about supporting each other for ensuring well being of each other and who in the right mind can oppose this idea that one needs to take up arms? It is always abusers and manipulators of humanity who benefit from abusing others who oppose deen of islam and that is why they impose fights and wars upon true muslims and that is the true position of actual deen of islam and true muslims if there are any. Muslims cannot need or want anything for themselves or others but only and only seek pleasure of their creator by doing works which he told them to ensure well being of whole of humanity with full help and support of each other. If one learns sense of making proper sense of things and then reads the quran, one will soon find out the quran is not a book from any human being but a book that is from out side of this world. However if people will not learn sense to make proper sense of the message of the quran then they will never know what the real message of God in the quran is.

However the more the people will ignore or avoid or neglect or abandon or desert the quran the more and more painful and agonising suffering will become norm for humanity by hands of each other over a longer period of time as a consequence. Such excuse is not valid for people that since people who claim to be muslims don't understand and use the quran properly so it has nothing to do with nonmuslims. It is because God if there is one is God of all and everything and it is he who has sent his message for all so those who will learn and follow it properly will have a great life in here as well as in hereafter whereas those who will not will end up and remain in an agonising or a terribly painful existence always by hands of each other no matter what. These are not threats by God but advance or fore warnings from God for sensible people to not to blindly follow each other into the hell hole which is dug by people themselves for themselves by not following advice of God at all.

Deen of islam is a true democratic system because it is a party-less system. What does that mean? It means power rests with rule of law of God as understood by masses who can then come together and appoint fully capable people into offices to serve God by making life of proper human community a living paradise as all agree or consent to in order to fulfil the quranic program and objective as well as needs and wants of all members of proper human community. This system works like a referendum in which all discuss things and vote for each and every individual issue and the issue is decided on basis of proper understanding of the quranic and the real world realities as well as needs and wants of people as individuals by a simple majority or unanimity. In a way it is bottom up system as compared to people taking over each other by force or by tricks or deceptive mechanisms whereby they create a pyramid of power structure to abuse weaker people from among themselves. So when it comes to bringing about a proper human community in the kingdom of God, if people cannot understand the real world realities and the quran properly in the first place, could they ever bring about a proper human community or create a book like the quran all by themselves? The quran by making such points shows, it is book from outside this world ie not written by human beings. It is because human beings do not think the way the quran does. If they could, our human world in no way could be the way it is right before our own eyes. It will have been a paradise instead.

The case being as already explained the next point is, why will God tell people for praying to him when he does not answer their prayers as he ought to according to beliefs or imaginations of people? Moreover why will God set times for prayers of people? It is because even if praying was ok, people will only praise God when they got good things from God and will only seek help of God when they are in real troubles and truly need help of God. Not only that but if God asks people to ask things of God then God ought to fulfil their demands or whatever they ask for otherwise why ask people for praying to waste their time and energies in the first place? This is why it makes no sense to have five daily prayers at fixed times and with fixed wording for prayers because prayer should be depending on situations or circumstances of people themselves as individuals and as groups. Yet another point in this regard is, God has his own purpose and plan for creating us so if he listens to us or fulfils our demands then how can God carry out his own plan for fulfilling his own purpose? Moreover we each have our own conflicting demands because we are always in conflict with each other, so how can God please each and every one of us? Therefore it makes better sense for God to give us all his standard to live by so that we all could mould or bend or model ourselves according to him rather than trying to mould God to fit our demands according to our self created conflicting standards. When it comes to God, the quran and deen of islam; things only seem mysterious for us because we are ignorant about them in various ways. I have already explained why miracles cannot take place in this world the way people at large think what they think ie due to their lack of proper knowledge about things. This is why our laughing at the quran exposes our own ignorance and stupidity at most and by burning the quran we are throwing our own future into the hell of our own making by our own hands.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
With all jokes aside I will read this when I have time to form an opinion somewhere in between my time on the kings throne and chai time.

dear nasny, its not easy to learn sense of making proper sense of things.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Yes in its 1400 year plus history only one paindo from bathinda was able to get this knowledge.

dear citizen x, aap ne apni samajh ke mutaabiq logoon ko quraan ko theek tarah se samjhaane ke liye koi thread nahin banaaya, kia aap ilm rakhte huwe is baat ko zaroori nahin samajhte jab ke quraan baar baar is baat ka taqaaza kerta hai?

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
dosto main ne ye thread aap ke hansi mazaaq ke liye nahin banaaya balkeh aap ko warning de rahaa hun keh quraan ki hesiyat aur ehmiyat ko samjho aur is ki qadar karo warna aap aik doosre ke haathun se khud apni apni tabahi ko rok hi nahin sakte. agar aap samajhte hen keh aap rok sakte hen to bataao kaise? mujhe aap ki baatun ki wajah se aap per hansi nahin dukh hota hai keh aap is qadar haqaaiq se unjaan hen. agar aisa na hota to main hi nahin aap bhi aisi hi aqlo kifer ko dawat dene waali baaten kerte quraan aur deene islam ke baare main. mazeed ye keh ham log na hi khud mullaan ke ghulaam hote na hi hamaare abaao ajdaad.

main her giz ye nahin kehta keh meri baaten ghalat nahin ho saktin magar aap padhen to sahi aur phir dekhen aap ki kitni baaten saheeh ho sakti hen meri baatun ke muqaabil. phir un ke baare main mujhe bhi aagah karen taa keh main bhi khud ko aap hi ki tarah khud ko drust ker loon.
 
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Citizen X

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
dear citizen x, aap ne apni samajh ke mutaabiq logoon ko quraan ko theek tarah se samjhaane ke liye koi thread nahin banaaya, kia aap ilm rakhte huwe is baat ko zaroori nahin samajhte jab ke quraan baar baar is baat ka taqaaza kerta hai?

regards and all the best.
I don't need to, when others are doing a brilliant job of it. Just watch, listen and read Javed Ghamdi or Mufti Abu Layth. Not this deluded Perwezi who you constantly keep on plugging with your ramblings.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I don't need to, when others are doing a brilliant job of it. Just watch, listen and read Javed Ghamdi or Mufti Abu Layth. Not this deluded Perwezi who you constantly keep on plugging with your ramblings.

Dear citizen x, the people you have mentioned have no clue as to what actual deen of islam is. They are religious scholar not scholars of deen of islam. Had you read this thread all that will have become very clear for you if you have the needed knowledge. Of course, I can't force you to do so. Its all up to you to correct your point of view about actual deen of islam.

You can discuss with me if you like over main beliefs and practices of these people such as I have explained in this very thread eg are miracles possible? See why not for definite and see if you can explain such things any better than me. I am here to learn if you have anything useful to say other than he he and ha ha.

regards and all the best.
 

Citizen X

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
the people you have mentioned have no clue as to what actual deen of islam
Of course only your paindo prophet from Bathinda knows what deen of Islam is.

The rest of your post I didn't even bother to read like most of your other drivel. Because one line in I knew what drivel it was going to be, just like the rest of your other posts.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Of course only your paindo prophet from Bathinda knows what deen of Islam is.

The rest of your post I didn't even bother to read like most of your other drivel. Because one line in I knew what drivel it was going to be, just like the rest of your other posts.

What a great scholarly reply dear citizen x.

regards and all the best.
 

Citizen X

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
What a great scholarly reply dear citizen x.

regards and all the best.
😂 😂 😂 😂 You are under some false grandiose delusion that people take you and your drivel seriously. What is the point having a discourse with you when eventually all roads lead to that paindo prophet of bathida of yours.

What you are trying to do is polish a turd and sell it as a diamond. You might make it even look nice and shiny from far away for some but the moment they come with in a few feet of it, it starts to stink.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
😂 😂 😂 😂 You are under some false grandiose delusion that people take you and your drivel seriously. What is the point having a discourse with you when eventually all roads lead to that paindo prophet of bathida of yours.

What you are trying to do is polish a turd and sell it as a diamond. You might make it even look nice and shiny from far away for some but the moment they come with in a few feet of it, it starts to stink.

Dear citizen x, what has this to do with any of my questions to you and your religious holy cows? All I want you to do is reply to the questions raised in this thread and thereby prove me wrong and your chosen scholars right. It is up to people to decide to take me seriously or as a joke like you do due to your self evident ignorance that is very much obvious in your replies to my posts.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Who gives a crap about your questions. Yeah thats right, no one.

You do dear citizen x, because you have been responding to my posts and I am glad that you did. After all we learn from each other. It gives us opportunity to help correct ourselves and if possible each other.

regards and all the best.
 

Citizen X

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
You do dear citizen x, because you have been responding to my posts and I am glad that you did.

regards and all the best.
This might come as a shock to you, but I've not even read a single "question" because I hardly even read past the first few lines of your drivel.

My responses to you are solely to counter your shamless spamming of your paindo prophet
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This might come as a shock to you, but I've not even read a single "question" because I hardly even read past the first few lines of your drivel.

My responses to you are solely to counter your shamless spamming of your paindo prophet

But now I am giving you a full opportunity dear citizen x to help me correct my errors. Just read the posts and respond accordingly.
 

Citizen X

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
But now I am giving you a full opportunity dear citizen x to help me correct my errors. Just read the posts and respond accordingly.
Oh how generous of you, maybe you didn't read my previous post, let me remind you

You are under some false grandiose delusion that people take you and your drivel seriously.
I have no time to be arguing dumb mureeds of Messiah of Bathida. Stay in your error, like I said no one gives a crap.

Poor you trying SOOOO hard that someone with start a discussion with you so you can have the opportunity to plug your paindo prophet once again 😂 😂 😂
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Oh how generous of you, maybe you didn't read my previous post, let me remind you


I have no time to be arguing dumb mureeds of Messiah of Bathida. Stay in your error, like I said no one gives a crap.

Poor you trying SOOOO hard that someone with start a discussion with you so you can have the opportunity to plug your paindo prophet once again 😂 😂 😂

Well, dear citizen x, its your loss all the way for not taking the opportunity but I wish you all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
For real?

Dear sane, things as you take them if they prove wrong then you could be in trouble, its only a matter of time. May be this thread will help you save yourself from ending up in a terrible situation.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
If it was written in Urdu, I would have read it and made some comments, but I don't have the patience nor the time to read it.

azeezam taban sb, main aap se maazrat hi ker sakta hun keh main ne ye baaten abhi urdu main likhna shuroo nahin ki hen.

regards and all the best.
 
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