Ghamidi Sahib ki Ara Mein Tabdeeli Kaisy Aye - Javed Ahmed Ghamidi

angryoldman

Minister (2k+ posts)
رینڈ کارپوریشن کی بے تحاشہ محنت اور فنڈنگ کی وجہ سے غامدی صاحب کی سوچ اور فکر یک سر بدل گئی بعد ازاں ملک بھی بدل گیا. سہولت کار عالم کے طور پر ان کا اچھا خاصا حلقہ بن گیا مغربی ممالک میں
کیونکہ پردہ صرف دل کا ہوتا ہے. اور مغربی ممالک میں تو یہ بھی نہیں ہوتا .
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
insaan waise hi nahin rehte jaise peda hote hen balkeh un main waqt ke saath saath tabdeeliyan aati jaati hen zehni ya jismaani ya zehni aur jismaani.

asal baat insaanu ka apni zindagi ke asal maqsad ko dhoond nikaalna hai aur us ko poora kerne ke liye raaste ko jaanana hai aur phir us maqsad ko poora kerne main dilo jaan se lag jaana hai.

jo log is baat ko samajhne se ghaafil hen un ki zindagi kuchh bhi nahin hoti. is liye keh woh is ke ilaawa jis cheez ko bhi apni zindagi ka maqsad banaate hen woh poora hi nahin ho sakta. kyunkeh khudaa ne her shai apne bataaye ge maqsad ko poora kerne ke liye banayee hai kisi aur ke maqsad ko poora kerne ke liye nahin.

yahee wajah hai duniya main her shakhs chahe woh kisi bhi jaga se ho ro rahaa hai, kabhi aik baat ko le ker kabhi doosri baat ko le ker keh us ka man-pasand maqsad poora nahin ho rahaa. issi baat ka her koi her waqt khudaa se gila kerta phir rahaa hai bajaaye ye baat jaanane ke keh asal main us ko khudaa ke diye ge maqsad ko jaan ker poora kerna tha, na keh apna maqsad bana lena tha aur us maqsad ko khudaa se poora karwaana tha.

jis din insaan is baat ko jaan len ge aur maan len ge aur is ko poora kerne ke liye apna zor lagaayen ge issi duniya main insaanu ke liye sab kuchh drust ho jaaye ga. For better understanding of deen of islam from the quran see HERE, HERE, HERE and HERE. yaad rakhen islam deen hai mazhab nahin.

ghamidi sb ne khud ko un bunyaadi baatun se agaah hi nahin kiya jin ke baghair koi bhi quraan ko theek tarah se samajh hi nahin sakta. insaan apne tajarbaat se bahir ki cheezun ko samajhne ki ehliyat hi nahin rakhta us ko her shai apni zindagi ke tajarbaat hi ki roshni main samajhni padti hai koi na koi tareeqa nikaal ker. jaisa main ne diye ge links main in baatun ko samjhaaya hai. ghamidi sb ko insaani zabaan ki haqeeqat ki kuchh bi soojh boojh nahin hai. woh nahin jaante keh insaani zabaan kia hai aur ye kaise wajood main ayee hai waghera waghera. quraan ko theek tarah se samajhne ke liye in baatun ko samajhna az bas laazmi hai.
 
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AzaadAlfaaz1316

Councller (250+ posts)
Javed Ghamdi saab is this century best scholar ! He introduce Islam in its real form ! From Quran and Ture Hadith (Hadith which is backed by Quran not by human hear say) ! from all the cultural and fake Hadiths .
Born in Sufi Religion now a Real Islamic Scholar ! I haven't met his match ! and Trust me I have Listen to many Scholars ! debaters ! from Ahmed Deedat to Bilal Philips.
Even Bilal Philips opinion is Hazrat ISA (peace be upon him is coming back 2000 years later ! Which a person like me who have thinking mind could not grasp this idea ! but left this matter to Allah . until I heard Javed ahmed opinion !
No Nabi or Zili Nabi or any kind of Nabi or Rasool be back after Quran ! Which is final massage of Allah and its protected by Allah not by Human !
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Javed Ghamdi saab is this century best scholar ! He introduce Islam in its real form ! From Quran and Ture Hadith (Hadith which is backed by Quran not by human hear say) ! from all the cultural and fake Hadiths .
Born in Sufi Religion now a Real Islamic Scholar ! I haven't met his match ! and Trust me I have Listen to many Scholars ! debaters ! from Ahmed Deedat to Bilal Philips.
Even Bilal Philips opinion is Hazrat ISA (peace be upon him is coming back 2000 years later ! Which a person like me who have thinking mind could not grasp this idea ! but left this matter to Allah . until I heard Javed ahmed opinion !
No Nabi or Zili Nabi or any kind of Nabi or Rasool be back after Quran ! Which is final massage of Allah and its protected by Allah not by Human !

azeezam azaad ilfaaz sb, ghamidi sb aik mazhabi scholar hen asal deene islam ke nahin. agar aap meri di gayee links ko padhen aur samjhen ge to aap ko khud bakhud hi maloom ho jaaye ga main aisa kyun keh rahaa hun.

regards and all the best.
 

kxr

Citizen
Almost all of my life I believed that Ghamidi was a fake scholar and a "Munkir e Hadees" who is just artificially trying to "modernize" Islam to get support from West or at best, trying to make Islam compatible with the Western culture. I was almost convinced that he is probably a Qadiyani in disguise. This is what I was told by the people I listened to and this is what I told others when ever I had discussions with my family and friends.

This was until (few years ago) I actually started listening to him and evaluating his arguments. Today I believe that he is by far the best Islamic scholar Pakistan has ever produced. In my opinion, his way of understanding and interpreting Islam is by far the most accurate one. I thank Allah that he enabled me to look behind the false prejudice and propaganda and gave me the true understanding of Islam.

I have just one advice to the critics, don't believe what others tell you about Ghamidi. Keep all your prejudices and biases on one side and evaluate him on your own.

May Allah guide us all to the right path.
 

kxr

Citizen
azeezam azaad ilfaaz sb, ghamidi sb aik mazhabi scholar hen asal deene islam ke nahin. agar aap meri di gayee links ko padhen aur samjhen ge to aap ko khud bakhud hi maloom ho jaaye ga main aisa kyun keh rahaa hun.

regards and all the best.
From what I know, Ghamidi sb. has spent almost all his life on studying and teaching Islam. He has done translation and written a Tafseer of the Holy Quran. He has detailed literature on Fiqh and he is currently working on his "Hadees Project". Is that not enough to call some one an "Islamic Scholar"?
I mean you can disagree with him all you want, I would understand, but saying that he is not an Islamic Scholar is just factually wrong.
 

AzaadAlfaaz1316

Councller (250+ posts)
azeezam azaad ilfaaz sb, ghamidi sb aik mazhabi scholar hen asal deene islam ke nahin. agar aap meri di gayee links ko padhen aur samjhen ge to aap ko khud bakhud hi maloom ho jaaye ga main aisa kyun keh rahaa hun.

regards and all the best.
Mjughal saab you need to grow up ! And see the world which is now on your tips (internet ) Pakistan is not a Islamic culture nor Islam is their religion .. The Country you belong to.. is Country of Wahabi Deobandi Qadiyani SUFI 80% which is not even ISLAM at all !! rest of Population is Jahil ! can even read and write ! So they go for NAjomi baba ! This is your religion ! Javed Ahmed Ghamdi is one of the best Scholar ! I used to listen only English speaking scholar ! Paki Ulema or Molvi was not even worth of my time ! until I heard Javed Ghamdi ! 1st I disagree with his few opinion ! When I Listen other on same topic .. Javed Ahmed was more Clear and logical ! I start listinging his Leacture in detail then I realize he is the Greatest Scholar of this century and one of 1000 years only one ! which so much Clear Knowledge ! Previous Scholar had no such information in their hand which available to all of us now . Even Mirza Ali Engineer Exposing Paki people Religion !
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
From what I know, Ghamidi sb. has spent almost all his life on studying and teaching Islam. He has done translation and written a Tafseer of the Holy Quran. He has detailed literature on Fiqh and he is currently working on his "Hadees Project". Is that not enough to call some one an "Islamic Scholar"?
I mean you can disagree with him all you want, I would understand, but saying that he is not an Islamic Scholar is just factually wrong.

dear kxr sb, if you will kindly take the trouble to go through the links I have provided, you will see why I differ with your opinion about ghamidi sb and for that matter with many others.

regards and all the best.
 
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kxr

Citizen
dear kxr sb, if you will kindly take the trouble to go through the links I have provided, you will see why I differ with your opinion about ghamidi sb and for that matter with many others.

regards and all the best.
I went through the links, glanced over the discussions and I fail to see how they are relevant to the point of Ghamidi Sb. being an Islamic scholar or not. I am sorry if I am missing something obvious and would appreciate if you can put your point forward directly.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Mjughal saab you need to grow up ! And see the world which is now on your tips (internet ) Pakistan is not a Islamic culture nor Islam is their religion .. The Country you belong to.. is Country of Wahabi Deobandi Qadiyani SUFI 80% which is not even ISLAM at all !! rest of Population is Jahil ! can even read and write ! So they go for NAjomi baba ! This is your religion ! Javed Ahmed Ghamdi is one of the best Scholar ! I used to listen only English speaking scholar ! Paki Ulema or Molvi was not even worth of my time ! until I heard Javed Ghamdi ! 1st I disagree with his few opinion ! When I Listen other on same topic .. Javed Ahmed was more Clear and logical ! I start listinging his Leacture in detail then I realize he is the Greatest Scholar of this century and one of 1000 years only one ! which so much Clear Knowledge ! Previous Scholar had no such information in their hand which available to all of us now . Even Mirza Ali Engineer Exposing Paki people Religion !

dear azaadalfaaz sb, I will agree with you to a point that pakistani people by and large are illiterate and not well educated and run to babas but that somehow does not make ghamidi sb a scholar of actual deen of islam. He believes in a lot of things that are religion based and religion has nothing at all to do with deen of islam. I have explained these points in detail in the links I have given in my post above.

Ghamidi sb ignores actual methods of learning by interpreting the quran against them to begin with. He does not interpret the quran rationally or scientifically. His interpretation of the quran is nothing more than playing with words just like rest of mullaans because he does not provide any solid foundation for it. He has no idea about origin of human language or what human language is or from where do its words and their meanings come from or what mechanisms and processes are involved in all this and why it is absolutely necessary to know all this before one could talk about interpreting the quran? So you can see why I do not count such people as scholars of deen of islam who are not even familiar with very foundation of this scholarship.

Once anyone gets foundation right then one is ready to build on that otherwise if foundation is flimsy then whatever is built upon it will also be unstable and shaky.

regards and all the best.
 

AzaadAlfaaz1316

Councller (250+ posts)
dear azaadalfaaz sb, I will agree with you to a point that pakistani people by and large are illiterate and not well educated and run to babas but that somehow does not make ghamidi sb a scholar of actual deen of islam. He believes in a lot of things that are religion based and religion has nothing at all to do with deen of islam. I have explained these points in detail in the links I have given in my post above.

Ghamidi sb ignores actual methods of learning by interpreting the quran against them to begin with. He does not interpret the quran rationally or scientifically. His interpretation of the quran is nothing more than playing with words just like rest of mullaans because he does not provide any solid foundation for it. He has no idea about origin of human language or what human language is or from where do its words and their meanings come from or what mechanisms and processes are involved in all this and why it is absolutely necessary to know all this before one could talk about interpreting the quran? So you can see why I do not count such people as scholars of deen of islam who are not even familiar with very foundation of this scholarship.

Once anyone gets foundation right then one is ready to build on that otherwise if foundation is flimsy then whatever is built upon it will also be unstable and shaky.

regards and all the best.
Wow are you saying only Arabic speaking People can understand Quran ? is That your logic? Linguistic foundation ? And Quran is not Science book ! There is no Formula or Quantifiable stuff in it . Its Book of Reason and Logic for human to ponder upon which have no match !
Anyway I read Quran even I can understand in English translation what Author of Quran is saying to me ! You don't have to be Scholar to understand Quran.
To be specific I go with Javed Ahmed Ghamdi Opinion that Isa (peace be upon him ) is not coming back ! No where in Quran its mention ! Its only mention in Hadiths So its not backed by Quran .
So as people before us and now in general believe Jesus is coming back for Jews Christian and Muslim ! But Javed Ahmed Ghamdi have shut down this Idea with logic and reason and back it by Quran ! So obviously old habit hard to die ! People like you and many other can not digest his opinion as it was contrary to common.
Javed Ahmed Ghamdi opinion about Interest and Islamic Leadership and Governor system is the best !
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I went through the links, glanced over the discussions and I fail to see how they are relevant to the point of Ghamidi Sb. being an Islamic scholar or not. I am sorry if I am missing something obvious and would appreciate if you can put your point forward directly.

dear kxr sb, I try to explain two things when it comes to deen of islam. 1)the proper or solid way to understand things which none of us human beings can dispute, be one muslim or not, and 2)the different meanings of words used in the quran. My claim is, none can understand the quran properly unless one comes to understand the method needed for proper understanding of the quran. I have explained this method in detail in the provided links.

When others including ghamidi sb try to explain the quran, they start from the quran and hadis and not from the very beginning ie right from the day we are born and how we learn things. I try to make people realise the fact that we humans have been created with ability or capability or capacity to figure out things for ourselves right from the very start. This is why as soon as we are born we start figuring out things for ourselves.

This means we are born intellectuals with potentialities and talents or if you like scientists and philosophers etc etc. We learn each and everything for which we have been created right from the very start by way of experimentation or by experimenting with things. All by ourselves we figure out how to use our own bodies or body parts by way of experimenting with them. Our knowledge increases with time as we build our own databases. At the time we have no idea who God is or what the quran and hadis are. In fact when we are born we have no idea what we are or what this universe is or is all about. No body makes us scientists or philosophers etc etc, it is all magic of our own God given minds and bodies and direct and indirect experiment based learning.

Just as we figure out realities of our own real world so we come to know about God and his revelation ie by figuring out things all by ourselves. Our first learning method is direct learning method whereby we have hands on experience with or about things. The other method of learning is indirect method whereby we share our own personal experiences with each other. This is what we learn in our universities or learning institutions or centres.

Revelation of God is not direct experience of everyone but only of a few human beings out of huge human population whom we call messengers of God. These people then shared with others what they had received from God and what they made of it. Since human beings in general do not have direct experience of God talking to them or interacting with them therefore revealed message of God needs a spacial way for its proper decoding or understanding. The main reason is God wanted to convey his own thoughts to human beings through use of some words meanings of which are unknown to human beings when it comes to God talking to human beings. The reason is, no direct interaction between God and human beings as they interact with each other. This is why the questions, what is human language and what is language of God, what is the difference between them and why is there that difference etc etc?

This is where in comes proper way of knowing as to what human language is and how it works or where it has come from and how ie where the words came from as well as their meanings and how they came about etc etc. Once we come to know these things only then we are ready for experimenting with the revealed message of God in order to make proper sense of it. We will be able to decode message of God as well just like everything else we have managed to learn by figuring out for ourselves. Along the way we will be making many mistakes as we have been with all other things we figured out or learned but gradually we will overcome those mistakes provided we keep on learning things as they ought to be learned and not go off the track of proper learning methods we have been using right from the day we were born. We cannot build a proper overall method for figuring out message of God if we will keep on using conflicting methods for this purpose. I have explained how all these methods of learning fit together perfectly and neatly eg direct method comes first then indirect method and so on and so forth.

After learning about methods we need to learn, we need learn the methods which help us decode the quran for ourselves. Here our main point is proper context of the quranic text ie the very reason why God chose to reveal his message. Again this has been clearly explained in my various posts. The purpose of creation has been explained as well as purpose of human creation and why it was necessary for God to reveal deen of islam ie a way of life whereby human beings could fulfil the purpose for which God has created all things. I have explained in detail the purpose for which God has created everything including people. All these things are related or interconnected or interlinked and they fit in perfectly. This is an overall picture of things which is not in minds of people at all. Mullaans have taken people away from this track and put them on wrong track that confuses them ie track of mazhab eg pooja paat.

Concept of mullaans about God as it comes across is, God is a tyrant, cruel, brutal, unjust, unfair and oppressive being like a madman or a spoiled child that throws about tantrums. He punishes people left right and centre. This God has created people for testing them and punishes them if they fail etc etc. This God does not fit the proper context of the quranic text. The quran begins with an idea of God that is very opposite of mullaans' kind of God. The whole idea of ghamidi sb about God is based upon his misunderstandings of the message in the quran. The quranic God himself is a highly intellectual being, he has created human beings who too are highly intellectual or rational beings and he has revealed a message for them that is totally rational or scientific. On the other hand if we accept mullaan nonsense then we have a God who has no idea what he is talking about. Mullaan translations and interpretations of the quran are nothing more than utter nonsense. It is all because mullaans have refused to raise their level of intellectual learning. They are stuck with nonsense, harmful and destructive beliefs and practices. Quranic God is great because he has best possible attributes ie asmaa al husnaa. Mullaan concept of God is miles away from that.

So I suggest, you go through my provided links to get hang of where I am coming from and why. I am not differing with concepts of people about God and his revelation just for sake of it. This is my position with all people in the world regardless of what they claim to be. If they talk nonsense about God then they are in trouble with me because I refuse to accept God is an evil being as they do, be they atheists or theists, hindus, parsis, jews, christians, muslims, sikhs etc etc. Wrong translations or interpretations of the quran be they by muslims or nonmuslims cannot be justified by anyone.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Wow are you saying only Arabic speaking People can understand Quran ? is That your logic? Linguistic foundation ? And Quran is not Science book ! There is no Formula or Quantifiable stuff in it . Its Book of Reason and Logic for human to ponder upon which have no match !
Anyway I read Quran even I can understand in English translation what Author of Quran is saying to me ! You don't have to be Scholar to understand Quran.
To be specific I go with Javed Ahmed Ghamdi Opinion that Isa (peace be upon him ) is not coming back ! No where in Quran its mention ! Its only mention in Hadiths So its not backed by Quran .
So as people before us and now in general believe Jesus is coming back for Jews Christian and Muslim ! But Javed Ahmed Ghamdi have shut down this Idea with logic and reason and back it by Quran ! So obviously old habit hard to die ! People like you and many other can not digest his opinion as it was contrary to common.
Javed Ahmed Ghamdi opinion about Interest and Islamic Leadership and Governor system is the best !

Dear azaadalfaaz sb, as I already requested, please visit the links and get hang of the information there in so that you could see where exactly I am coming from and why. See my above reply to kxr sb as well so that you may get some idea from that as well. There is little point in discussing other issues when the very basic things are not understood properly upon which all the rest are based.

regards and all the best.
 

kxr

Citizen
Mughal1 Thank you for the detailed explanation. Your premise of interpreting and understanding the Holy Quran is directly conflicting with what Quran has said about it self.


For example you said:
My claim is, none can understand the quran properly unless one comes to understand the method needed for proper understanding of the quran.
revealed message of God needs a spacial way for its proper decoding or understanding.
The main reason is God wanted to convey his own thoughts to human beings through use of some words meanings of which are unknown to human beings when it comes to God talking to human beings.

But Allah said in the Holy Quran that this Quran has been sent in plain and easy to understand Arabic Language.
"And truly this (the Qur'an) is a revelation from the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinn and all that exists), which the trustworthy Ruh (Jibril) has brought down upon your heart (O Muhammad) that you may be (one) of the warners, in the plain Arabic language."Al-Qur'an 26:192-195
"A Book whereof the verses are explained in detail, a Qur'an in Arabic for people who know."Al-Qur'an 41:3
"Verily we have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an in order that you may understand."Al-Qur'an 12:2

In my opinion, the correct way to interpret the Holy Quran would be to interpret it in the language and dialect of the people it was sent to. Any thing else will open the can of worms and any one would come up with their own "special way" of "decoding" the Quran.

If I remember correctly Maulana Ghulam Ahmed Parvaiz Sb. (Marhoom) also did something similar to this. He came up with his own way of interpreting the Quran. At one point I was very intrigued by his way of interpreting Quran, but I soon realized that it is not consistent or even logical.
Muhammad Sheikh Sb. (I believe he is still alive) is another example. You can see his lectures on youtube.

Best Regards,
kxr
 

kxr

Citizen
And I forgot to quote the most important one from the Quran:

We have made the Quran easy to understand, but is there anyone who would pay attention? Al-Quran 54:17
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Mughal1 Thank you for the detailed explanation. Your premise of interpreting and understanding the Holy Quran is directly conflicting with what Quran has said about it self.


For example you said:




But Allah said in the Holy Quran that this Quran has been sent in plain and easy to understand Arabic Language.




In my opinion, the correct way to interpret the Holy Quran would be to interpret it in the language and dialect of the people it was sent to. Any thing else will open the can of worms and any one would come up with their own "special way" of "decoding" the Quran.

If I remember correctly Maulana Ghulam Ahmed Parvaiz Sb. (Marhoom) also did something similar to this. He came up with his own way of interpreting the Quran. At one point I was very intrigued by his way of interpreting Quran, but I soon realized that it is not consistent or even logical.
Muhammad Sheikh Sb. (I believe he is still alive) is another example. You can see his lectures on youtube.

Best Regards,
kxr

And I forgot to quote the most important one from the Quran:

Dear kxr sb, please read my above posts as well as others very carefully so that you could respond appropriately. If I may say so you are dismissing your life experience upon which depends all the rest of learning of human beings. matlab ye keh aap jis daal per baithe hen ussi ko kaat rahe hen.

The quran cannot be used truly or properly as a reference till it is understood properly in its own proper context. As I see things you are misunderstanding things quite a bit. To help you better your understanding I have requested that you spend some time on my explanation of things. Hopefully you will eventually get hang of things. The quran in actual fact takes us human beings on a journey of discovery from where our direct and indirect learning from each other peaks.

Many people think the quran is easy to memorise or understand etc etc but this is a misunderstanding. The quran says things in its own proper context. Just picking up a verse and saying this is what it means causes loads of problems.

For example, today, there are about 8 billion people on the face of this earth. How many of them have bothered to understand the quran properly? Not many otherwise they will know the way to understand the quran properly. How many of them have bothered to memorise it? Not many. Is human life easy at all? The answer is a clear cut, no. If human life itself is not easy then how can anything else be easy for humanity? Did we humans learn things as a piece of cake on the plate? No we struggled and struggled very, very hard. This is why the quran tells us that God has put us through a very hard struggle not test. Why God did that? Because he created us for a set purpose of his own and what is that purpose? It is most certainly not pooja paat but that is what ghamidi sb and rest of mullaans think. Does it make any sense that a being like God (who is all what he claims to be) will create people just to sit and keep saying God you are great? No, rather he has created humanity and sent his revelation to show that this creation of God and revelation of God are great works of God that ought to make God and humanity look great as a partnership to a definite end.

How is humanity going to show that it is truly a great work of God? By learning and doing great things which make God and humanity look great. This is why God has given us human beings brains and senses as well as bodies and things to use so that thereby we express greatness of ourselves as well as our creator. All this needs time (because people take time for learning and doing things from scratch) so that people could get where God wanted people to be all by their own endeavour and hard work accoridng to guidance of God. This is why the case is religion and secularism vs deen of islam and of which all mullaans and their followers are unaware due to wrong translations and interpretations of the actual message in the quran. It has resulted due to people not knowing the essential basics needed for interpreting the quran properly.

To me you come across as if you are putting the quran in direct confrontation with the human intellectual ability. In actual fact the quran is just a piece of information from God and it needs intellectual ability of humanity to be interpreted or understood and acted upon properly. This is why the quran and human ability to make proper sense of things cannot be in conflict with each other unless human beings have not learned sense of making proper sense of things which is prerequisite for understanding the quran. Human beings do need to keep trying when they try to learn something in order to be better at it to a needed degree or stage. This is why the quran cannot be understood by anyone unless one first learns the needed knowledge necessary for proper understanding the quran. No one gave the quran in your hand as soon as you were born because you could not make anything of it at the time rather you need to grow both psychologically as well as biologically. So people who do not enable themselves intellectually to be able to decode the message in the quran remain confused about it.

It is true that the quran is revealed in arabic that is mubeen but what do these words mean? They do not mean arabic dialect of quraish. They mean a use of language that is clearly distinct or a use of language that is from outside of this world or a use of language that clearly stands out. In short by use of these words in his own special way, God is conveying a special use of language beyond creative capability of human beings. This is not an ordinary use of language rather it is a special use of language which makes it clearly distinct from human use of language or human experience. In other words God's use of language is very different from human use of language. The quran is a stand alone book ie there is nothing like the quran in this world other than the quran itself. The quran is revealed to teach sense to humanity beyond the sense they are capable of learning all by themselves with help and support of each other. The quran is supposed to take humanity to a whole different level of thinking than people can reach on their own.

The other thing I notice is, you did not respond on concepts of mullaans and ghamidi sb which I have clearly explained in detail in my other posts. God did not create us to test us and to punish us for our failings in the test. This is all nonsense by mullaans who have little or no sense to be able to interpret the quran properly. God has created us to fulfil his purpose which I have clearly explained in the links I have provided. Since this involves very hard work by humanity therefore God rewards it twice. Once in this world and second time in the world to come ie the better world we will make the better it will become ie this will happen by our own doing and not by doing of God, for he has set it up to work that way. This is why our life is very hard in this world because our God given task is not a piece of cake. This is why there is such a great reward for it in hereafter as well.

The quran is a road map for humanity to bring about a great world for itself based upon the quranic map. The quran is all about how humanity should build the best possible human society in this world. Starting from knowing absolutely nothing at all till people come to know and do all they need to do for this purpose. This is how program of God for humanity will become a reality one day or become fully implemented. Since this will bring whole of humanity a great relief because human life will then become a lot easier all by their own learning and doing so it will appreciate God greatly for giving it such a great program to turn this world into a reality the quran proposes. This is why God too will appreciate greatness of humanity for implementing or turning his given program into a reality. This is how God and humanity will both be very much pleased with each other. Remember, God is all good and he is not capable of doing wrong to anyone ever. This life is a process that is started by God for a set purpose and it will come to a completion after some time, which God knows and he has told us in the quran with all its essential detail.

Why God created this world or what was the purpose of God for doing all this? Simple, God decided to express himself. Before doing so he was only himself all alone so no one knew anything about him because there was no one around. After God decided to express himself he expressed himself in two ways 1)through creation and 2) through his revelations. Since he expressed himself for becoming known and to be appreciated by someone else, so he created human beings. He created them totally ignorant or with clean slate brains. This was done so that human being independently learned and done things to reach God by way of God given rope if they so chose. This is why as human beings grow in their learning and doing things they start looking for reason or purpose of their being or existence in this world. Gradually some start searching for message of God and when they get to it they try their best to decode it to make sense of their own existence in this world.

The more people learn and do things and gain wider and wider experiences the more they get closer to proper understanding of things. On the contrary those who are born and remain at the level of learning which does not lead them any where they keep suffering painfully due to making and keeping their world that way. This world will always be what people make of it for themselves.

There are many things in the quran about which humanity has not yet learned how to make proper sense of them. This is why if possible you should read through my posts to get hang of my approach to things in the quran. After that you can compare my understanding of things with the understanding of anyone else you like and you will clearly see who is right and who is wrong and why that is the case.

Regards and all the best
 
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QasimAttari

Citizen
Qurbani Ki Dua Pdf
إِنِّي وَجَّهْتُ وَجْهِيَ لِلَّذِي فَطَرَ السَّماَوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفَاً وَمَا أَنَا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ . إِنَّ صَلاتِي وَنُسُكِي وَمَحْيَايَ وَمَمَاتِي لِلَّهِ رَبِّ العَالَمِينَ لاَ شَرِيكَ لَهُ وَبِذَلِكَ أُمِرْتُ وَأَنَا أَوَّلُ المُسْلِمِينَ ، اللَّهُمَّ مِنْكَ وَلَكَ

I have turned my face to that Being who has created the skies and the Earth in the state of the Straight Deen of Ibrahim - and I am not amongst the Mushrikeen. Definitely, my Salaat, my Ibadat and my living and dying is all for Allah, who is the Lord of the worlds, and who has no partner. I have been ordered (all that passed) I am amongst the Muslimeen (the obedient). O Allah this sacrifice is due to You granting us the ability to do so and it is for You
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Qurbani Ki Dua Pdf
إِنِّي وَجَّهْتُ وَجْهِيَ لِلَّذِي فَطَرَ السَّماَوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفَاً وَمَا أَنَا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ . إِنَّ صَلاتِي وَنُسُكِي وَمَحْيَايَ وَمَمَاتِي لِلَّهِ رَبِّ العَالَمِينَ لاَ شَرِيكَ لَهُ وَبِذَلِكَ أُمِرْتُ وَأَنَا أَوَّلُ المُسْلِمِينَ ، اللَّهُمَّ مِنْكَ وَلَكَ

I have turned my face to that Being who has created the skies and the Earth in the state of the Straight Deen of Ibrahim - and I am not amongst the Mushrikeen. Definitely, my Salaat, my Ibadat and my living and dying is all for Allah, who is the Lord of the worlds, and who has no partner. I have been ordered (all that passed) I am amongst the Muslimeen (the obedient). O Allah this sacrifice is due to You granting us the ability to do so and it is for You

azeezam qasimattari sb, surah 6 ki aayaat 159-165 tak dekhiye baat kia ho rahee hai. ye bahot hi aham aayaat hen. in main shirk aur towheed ko deene islam ke sayaaqo sabaaq main samjhaaya gayaa hai. yahee nahin aik maqsad bataaya gayaa hai insaanu ko peda kerna ka aur us maqsad ko poora kerne per zor diya gayaa hai. ye elaan kerwaaya gayaa hai keh in kaamun ke kerne ke ilaawa sab bekaar hai. yani insaanu ka jena merna sab khudaa ke maqsad ko poora kerne ke liye hona chahiye.

firqa parasti ki asal wajah hi logoon ka apne apne maqaasid banaa lena aur un ke peechhe chalna hai bajaaye khudaa ke maqsad ko theek tarah se samajh ker poora kerne ke. yahee to asal shirk hai, yaani khudaa ke diye ge maqsad ko aik taraf rakh ker apna apna andaaze zindagi apnaa lena apne apne maqasid poore kerne ke liye. isi liye quraan main hi ye bhi kahaa gayaa hai keh logoon ne apni apni khawahishun ko khudaa banaa liya hai bajaaye khudaa ki khawaish ko poora kerne ke jo us ka asal maqsade takhleeqe kaainaat hai.

in ayaat main ye baat saaf saaf batayee gayee hai keh asal baat insaanu ka khudaa ke maqsad ko theek tarah se jaanana aur us ko theek tarah se soch samajh ker poora kerna hai keh yahee insaanu ki takhleeq ki asal wajah hai. apne apne maqaasid banaa lena aur un ko poora kerne main lag jaana nahin. magar mullaan ke ahmaq pan ki wajah se her koi yahee kuchh ker rahaa hai. issi liye jo koi aata hai aur mullaan se masla poochhta hai us ka her sawaal kuchh issi noeyat ka hota hai jis ka asal deene islam ke maqsad ya us ke poora kerne se koi taaluq hi nahin hota. issi liye is ummat ki ye haalat hai jo mullaan hi ki wajah se hai keh in logoon ne is ummat ko deene islam se mukammal tor per door kiya huwa hai.

mullaan ki talimaat se aisa maloom hota hai jaise is ummat ke wajood ka kuch bhi maqsad hi nahin hai. kyunkeh agar koi maqsad ho ga to ye aik ho gi aur us maqsad ko poora kerne ke liye kaam kare gi yak jaan ho ker. firqa parasti bhi issi liye hai keh ye ummat bemaqsad ho gayee hai aur bemaqsad ker bhi di gayee hai. zaroorat is baat ki hai keh is ko phir se is ka maqsade takhleeq yaad dilaaya jaaye taa keh ye phir ubhar sake aur maqsad ko poora ker sake.

regards and all the best