Israel doing whatever they want inside Iran from 1000 miles away

Despacito

Voter (50+ posts)
and also please share with us your conclusion of research so that we can also take benefit. what are the major differences among arkaan e islam, with references. thank you.
Just read the 4 major shia hadith books should be enough. And I don't want to go into detail as I'm sure many are going to get seriously offended if I do about the major differences. Just a quick summary of some. They believe the current Quran they have is not the actual Quran, but an altered Quran. The real Quran is with the hidden mahdi. There 12 imams are of higher stature than any prophet, imam controls the universe and decides who goes to heaven and hell. Mutah is legal, Ziyarah of graves comes first then Hajj if you feel like it where also they don't pray behind the imam there. There shahadah is different which includes belief in imamat as a condition of becoming a muslim. After the prophets death all sahaba apostated save a "choosen few" and Khulafa rashideen are not among them. So on and so forth.

I'm not a professor so if you want references and qoutes I'm sorry you are all out of luck. My opinion has been formed over years of reading and listening. I'm sure I've forgotten more about shia-ism then I can remember.

You are free to live in your delusion rosy world of Iran Pakistan Bhai bhai.
 

Modest

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
we do not need any foreign agents when we have jahil mullahs who are factories of issuing fatwas against every other sect. what we really need is follow real alims who supports for unity of muslims and there are such alims in every sect. I do not care specifically about iran, what i care is we need to stop blaming every other countries for our failure. we need to clean our own filth from jahil mullahs and zakirs. why our country is most indulged in sectarian violence. why any other muslim country people are not fighting among sects. it means the issue is internal not external.
We are only blaming Iran for what they did in the recent years against Pakistan. There were harbouring & launching Indian terrorists from Iran. Me & you are educated people so no mullah can brainwash us. We just need to admit and recognise who is our enemy & who is friend of our enemy.
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
You can take any ayah out of context and make it want what you mean. For examples the ayahs from surah Imran and Nissa are talking about a specific people of a specific time and Allah is advises that now you should not take these non believers as "Auliyah" This is not a steadfast rule for every Muslim till the end of time.

I suggest you read the entire tafseers of the Surahs from which the Ayahs have been quoted to get the context of what the Quran is saying.

This is the same kind of twisted logic ISIS and Taliban apply.
nothing is taken out of context. the holy quran and ahadis clearly prohibit being friends of zionists but everyone is free to do whatever in this world, if you prefer jews over muslims you are free to do that. the holy quran is hidayat till the end of world, and the history of zionists have been always against all muslims irrespective of sects. the holy quran and ahadis has ordered us to be united just one verse for you to think upon. but if you have made up your mind then it is between you and Allah. think before its too late. surah e al imran verse number 103 says about unity of muslims. وَاعۡتَصِمُوۡا بِحَبۡلِ اللّٰهِ جَمِيۡعًا وَّلَا تَفَرَّقُوۡا
وَاذۡكُرُوۡا نِعۡمَتَ اللّٰهِ عَلَيۡكُمۡ اِذۡ كُنۡتُمۡ اَعۡدَآءً فَاَ لَّفَ بَيۡنَ قُلُوۡبِكُمۡ فَاَصۡبَحۡتُمۡ بِنِعۡمَتِهٖۤ اِخۡوَانًا ۚ وَكُنۡتُمۡ عَلٰى شَفَا حُفۡرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَاَنۡقَذَكُمۡ مِّنۡهَا ؕ كَذٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللّٰهُ لَـكُمۡ اٰيٰتِهٖ لَعَلَّكُمۡ تَهۡتَدُوۡنَ
hadis in sahih bukhari.
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ بُكَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا اللَّيْثُ، عَنْ عُقَيْلٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، أَنَّ سَالِمًا أَخْبَرَهُ، أَنَّ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ عُمَرَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا أَخْبَرَهُ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ، قَالَ:" الْمُسْلِمُ أَخُو الْمُسْلِمِ لَا يَظْلِمُهُ وَلَا يُسْلِمُهُ، وَمَنْ كَانَ فِي حَاجَةِ أَخِيهِ كَانَ اللَّهُ فِي حَاجَتِهِ، وَمَنْ فَرَّجَ عَنْ مُسْلِمٍ كُرْبَةً فَرَّجَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ كُرْبَةً مِنْ كُرُبَاتِ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ، وَمَنْ سَتَرَ مُسْلِمًا سَتَرَهُ اللَّهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ".
i hope you will not say these ahadis and verses were hidayat for the early times of islam, as hidayat is not bound with time,
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
We are only blaming Iran for what they did in the recent years against Pakistan. There were harbouring & launching Indian terrorists from Iran. Me & you are educated people so no mullah can brainwash us. We just need to admit and recognise who is our enemy & who is friend of our enemy.
well lets agree to disagree on it. have a good luck.
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Just read the 4 major shia hadith books should be enough. And I don't want to go into detail as I'm sure many are going to get seriously offended if I do about the major differences. Just a quick summary of some. They believe the current Quran they have is not the actual Quran, but an altered Quran. The real Quran is with the hidden mahdi. There 12 imams are of higher stature than any prophet, imam controls the universe and decides who goes to heaven and hell. Mutah is legal, Ziyarah of graves comes first then Hajj if you feel like it where also they don't pray behind the imam there. There shahadah is different which includes belief in imamat as a condition of becoming a muslim. After the prophets death all sahaba apostated save a "choosen few" and Khulafa rashideen are not among them. So on and so forth.

I'm not a professor so if you want references and qoutes I'm sorry you are all out of luck. My opinion has been formed over years of reading and listening. I'm sure I've forgotten more about shia-ism then I can remember.

You are free to live in your delusion rosy world of Iran Pakistan Bhai bhai.
1. Just read the 4 major shia hadith books should be enough.
it means you do not have any proof. it is just like saying just read encyclopedia and you will find out. do you know how many volumes are those 4 shia hadiths books, those of hundreds of volumes and you are saying just read those,
2. They believe the current Quran they have is not the actual Quran, but an altered Quran. The real Quran is with the hidden mahdi.
200% wrong. there is no such belief in any of the muslim sects against the validity of quran. there is no any references from any sect which says that any single verse in this quran is extra added or missing. it is jahil mullah propaganda. read by yourself and do not believe anyone who looks like an alim. or at least listen to someone whose credibility is not questionable and every sect has such true ulma, the quran itself guarantees that Allah will protect it till the end of world.
‏إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا ٱلذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُۥ لَحَفِظُونَ
3. There 12 imams are of higher stature than any prophet, imam controls the universe and decides who goes to heaven and hell.
Shia believe in imamat of 12 leaders and consider them masoom (not sinners). but never say that they control the system of world, it is again mullah propaganda, those who believe on such can not be muslims and they are called nuseris just like khawajis who labelled Ali as deviated from the right path after the war of Siffin. both khawarijis and nuseris are extreme and both of them has nothing to do with islam. do not mix things. again study not listen to whatever mullah says. ask them for valid references.
4. Mutah is legal, Ziyarah of graves comes first then Hajj if you feel like it where also they don't pray behind the imam there.
Mutah is legal in Shia islam but its interpretation is always been wrong, this nikkah is just like a normal nikah but it finishes after a decided period of time. there are differences in ahadis about it. some ahadis says it was practiced untill the time of second caliph and then it was banned and some says it was banned during the time of holy prophet. so shia says when the holy prophet did not ban nobody is entitled even shia imams can not change a rule after the holy prophet while sunnis think that it was banned during the time of fath e makka. so this is one differences. Ziyarah of graves in shia islam is not a wajib but Haj is a wajib rukun if islam in both shia and sunni. again it is propaganda and hundreds of thousands of shia performs hajj every year, if you do not believe just check the statistics and you will find out the reality. and everyone offers prayers after the imam during hajj. and i have myself studies shia ulma fatwa that anyone can offer prayers behind any immam who do not consider any of other sect as kaffir. if anyone be it shia or sunni mullah considers any other sect as kaffir then nobody should offer prayer behind such person, as he himself is not a true muslim.
5. There shahadah is different which includes belief in imamat as a condition of becoming a muslim. After the prophets death all sahaba apostated save a "choosen few" and Khulafa rashideen are not among them
shahadah is same in all muslims. shia has belief in imamat and it is not a condition to become a muslim but condition to be a true momin in shia islam. so what it is a difference. shia does not consider khulafa as apostate but do consider that Ali was the rightful person to lead the muslims after the holy prophet based on the event of ghadir. those who believes khulafa as apostates are sinners and deviated just like the nuserres and khawarijis.
6.
I'm not a professor so if you want references and qoutes I'm sorry you are all out of luck. My opinion has been formed over years of reading and listening. I'm sure I've forgotten more about shia-ism then I can remember.
so you yourself agreed that your opinion is formed over years of reading but you do not have a single references for all those false claims. in a nutshell your net research result is zero. just reading online on social media and listening to video clips always leads to disaster. if you are really interested to find out if all the above mentioned are true then you really need to read authentic books or talk to true ulamas. every other jahil mullah who ahs been to a madrisa for 5 years has the islamic knowledge same as a matric fail boy knows about sciences and technology.
7. You are free to live in your delusion rosy world of Iran Pakistan Bhai bhai.
Allah knows who is in delusion. I am satisfied with being brothers with all sects of islam be it pakistani, irani afghani arbi, turki or XYZ.
 

Despacito

Voter (50+ posts)
it means you do not have any proof. it is just like saying just read encyclopedia and you will find out. do you know how many volumes are those 4 shia hadiths books, those of hundreds of volumes and you are saying just read those,
I'm not a professor so if you want references and qoutes I'm sorry you are all out of luck. My opinion has been formed over years of reading and listening. I'm sure I've forgotten more about shia-ism then I can remember.
200% wrong. there is no such belief in any of the muslim sects
Well then obviously you know nothing about the Shia and any further discussion with you is in vain.

You keep saying its jahil mullah propaganda, jahil mullah propaganda. The Shia sect is started by Jahil mullahs and their propaganda so there is no way you can disregard it. Because there is no Shia'ism and imamat in the Quran or any hadith. It is purely an invention of jahil mullahs. There is no way you can just write them off.

For every Shia Ayatullah Khomeni is the highest of the high and his writings almost sacred text, would you also call him a jahil mullah and his books and teachings propaganda?
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Just because you say doesn't mean it is.



What you call Muslims I would best describe them as followers of the Cult Of Ali
The holy Prophet said: (two authentic hadis)

1. “If a man says to his Muslim brother: “O, Kafir!”, then one of the two will have Kufr drawn on him.” [Al-Bukhaari]
2. If a person says to his brother “O, Kaafir!”, then it is like killing him.

I consider all Muslims as my brothers except those who thinks any of the sects is not a Muslim. {those are actually khawarij (from extreme sunni) and nuseris (frpm extreme shia)} and both of those extreme ideas fall outside the Islamic boundaries.
further discussion is fruitless if you do not have any solid references for what you think about shia islam. everyone is free to have opinions and belief, we will finally meet Allah and we will be only answerable to him. May Allah almighty guide us all and protect the Muslim ummah. Ameen.
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Well then obviously you know nothing about the Shia and any further discussion with you is in vain.

You keep saying its jahil mullah propaganda, jahil mullah propaganda. The Shia sect is started by Jahil mullahs and their propaganda so there is no way you can disregard it. Because there is no Shia'ism and imamat in the Quran or any hadith. It is purely an invention of jahil mullahs. There is no way you can just write them off.

For every Shia Ayatullah Khomeni is the highest of the high and his writings almost sacred text, would you also call him a jahil mullah and his books and teachings propaganda?
i know very well about all major sects of islam and i respect all of them as all of them have their own justification based on history and valid ahadis narrated by people of early age of islam (far more pious than any of us in this age). there are surely some differences and it will remain untill the end). we do not need to fight on minor differences and ignore the major common parts. be united and love the ummah. i myself offer prayers behind any of muslim imam in any sect masjid. May Allah guide us and give us towfeeq to stop sectarian differences. Amen.
وَاعۡتَصِمُوۡا بِحَبۡلِ اللّٰهِ جَمِيۡعًا وَّلَا تَفَرَّقُوۡا
And hold fast all of you together to the rope of Allah and be not divided among yourselves"
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
1. Just read the 4 major shia hadith books should be enough.
it means you do not have any proof. it is just like saying just read encyclopedia and you will find out. do you know how many volumes are those 4 shia hadiths books, those of hundreds of volumes and you are saying just read those,
2. They believe the current Quran they have is not the actual Quran, but an altered Quran. The real Quran is with the hidden mahdi.
200% wrong. there is no such belief in any of the muslim sects against the validity of quran. there is no any references from any sect which says that any single verse in this quran is extra added or missing. it is jahil mullah propaganda. read by yourself and do not believe anyone who looks like an alim. or at least listen to someone whose credibility is not questionable and every sect has such true ulma, the quran itself guarantees that Allah will protect it till the end of world.
‏إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا ٱلذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُۥ لَحَفِظُونَ
3. There 12 imams are of higher stature than any prophet, imam controls the universe and decides who goes to heaven and hell.
Shia believe in imamat of 12 leaders and consider them masoom (not sinners). but never say that they control the system of world, it is again mullah propaganda, those who believe on such can not be muslims and they are called nuseris just like khawajis who labelled Ali as deviated from the right path after the war of Siffin. both khawarijis and nuseris are extreme and both of them has nothing to do with islam. do not mix things. again study not listen to whatever mullah says. ask them for valid references.
4. Mutah is legal, Ziyarah of graves comes first then Hajj if you feel like it where also they don't pray behind the imam there.
Mutah is legal in Shia islam but its interpretation is always been wrong, this nikkah is just like a normal nikah but it finishes after a decided period of time. there are differences in ahadis about it. some ahadis says it was practiced untill the time of second caliph and then it was banned and some says it was banned during the time of holy prophet. so shia says when the holy prophet did not ban nobody is entitled even shia imams can not change a rule after the holy prophet while sunnis think that it was banned during the time of fath e makka. so this is one differences. Ziyarah of graves in shia islam is not a wajib but Haj is a wajib rukun if islam in both shia and sunni. again it is propaganda and hundreds of thousands of shia performs hajj every year, if you do not believe just check the statistics and you will find out the reality. and everyone offers prayers after the imam during hajj. and i have myself studies shia ulma fatwa that anyone can offer prayers behind any immam who do not consider any of other sect as kaffir. if anyone be it shia or sunni mullah considers any other sect as kaffir then nobody should offer prayer behind such person, as he himself is not a true muslim.
5. There shahadah is different which includes belief in imamat as a condition of becoming a muslim. After the prophets death all sahaba apostated save a "choosen few" and Khulafa rashideen are not among them
shahadah is same in all muslims. shia has belief in imamat and it is not a condition to become a muslim but condition to be a true momin in shia islam. so what it is a difference. shia does not consider khulafa as apostate but do consider that Ali was the rightful person to lead the muslims after the holy prophet based on the event of ghadir. those who believes khulafa as apostates are sinners and deviated just like the nuserres and khawarijis.
6.
I'm not a professor so if you want references and qoutes I'm sorry you are all out of luck. My opinion has been formed over years of reading and listening. I'm sure I've forgotten more about shia-ism then I can remember.
so you yourself agreed that your opinion is formed over years of reading but you do not have a single references for all those false claims. in a nutshell your net research result is zero. just reading online on social media and listening to video clips always leads to disaster. if you are really interested to find out if all the above mentioned are true then you really need to read authentic books or talk to true ulamas. every other jahil mullah who ahs been to a madrisa for 5 years has the islamic knowledge same as a matric fail boy knows about sciences and technology.
7. You are free to live in your delusion rosy world of Iran Pakistan Bhai bhai.
Allah knows who is in delusion. I am satisfied with being brothers with all sects of islam be it pakistani, irani afghani arbi, turki or XYZ.
WOW, you've been chugging that Islami Biradar Mulk Kool Aid shoved down your throats by Zia real hard eh! This dude is new here so he probably doesn't know the leader of their cult as he most appropriately put it on this forum. All you have to do is search for his posts right here on this forum to confirm all of the mentioned above.

You really need to snap of this drunken stupor of this spiked kool aid you've been chugging
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
i know very well about all major sects of islam and i respect all of them as all of them have their own justification based on history and valid ahadis narrated by people of early age of islam (far more pious than any of us in this age). there are surely some differences and it will remain untill the end). we do not need to fight on minor differences and ignore the major common parts. be united and love the ummah. i myself offer prayers behind any of muslim imam in any sect masjid. May Allah guide us and give us towfeeq to stop sectarian differences. Amen.
وَاعۡتَصِمُوۡا بِحَبۡلِ اللّٰهِ جَمِيۡعًا وَّلَا تَفَرَّقُوۡا
And hold fast all of you together to the rope of Allah and be not divided among yourselves"
Exactly i.e there are NO SECTS in Islam anyone who creates a sect is creating division be it shia, sunni, brelvi, deobandi etc etc So anyone says he belongs xyz sect is going directly against the Quran.

Sectarianism will only end when sects end
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Exactly i.e there are NO SECTS in Islam anyone who creates a sect is creating division be it shia, sunni, brelvi, deobandi etc etc So anyone says he belongs xyz sect is going directly against the Quran.

Sectarianism will only end when sects end
i agree with you. we should respect all schools are thoughts. apna aqeeda choro mt dusro ko cheero mt.
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
WOW, you've been chugging that Islami Biradar Mulk Kool Aid shoved down your throats by Zia real hard eh! This dude is new here so he probably doesn't know the leader of their cult as he most appropriately put it on this forum. All you have to do is search for his posts right here on this forum to confirm all of the mentioned above.

You really need to snap of this drunken stupor of this spiked kool aid you've been chugging
i did not understand your point here.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
i did not understand your point here.
I'm saying is you are in denial, all the points despacito mentioned are correct and there are more, there is member here by the name of There is only 1 ( how ironic when they believe in 12 ) you can search his posts you will see he himself saying all of this
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I'm saying is you are in denial, all the points despacito mentioned are correct and there are more, there is member here by the name of There is only 1 ( how ironic when they believe in 12 ) you can search his posts you will see he himself saying all of this
i have studied all the differences between the two major sects (shia and sunni). as i mentioned earlier, more than 90% basic things are same and i prefer to accept all sects as brothers, because that is what Quran and Sahih authentic ahadis preaches muslims to do (common in both sects). there are many weak ahadis in both the 6 sahi ahadis books of sunni muslims and 4 ahadis books of shia islam. and most of those ahadis are usually used to label the opposite sects as kaffir. if that is the logic then islam literally doesn't exist these days. so, why we can not live like human beings and do not harm anyone by labelling them as something which they are not. if someone really wants to know then we need to stop listening and start to study just like we get other sciences through studies, how can we just listen to someone and believe. usually some shia public considers all sunnis as khawarijis and some sunni public considers all shia as nuserees. and this is all due to lake of studies and result of listening to jahil mullahs and jahil zakir. (jahil mullah and zakirs means those who sepnds few years in a madrisa and starts spreading fitna). read by yourself or listen to those real ulama who preaches for unity not for division.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
i have studied all the differences between the two major sects (shia and sunni). as i mentioned earlier, more than 90% basic things are same and i prefer to accept all sects as brothers, because that is what Quran and Sahih authentic ahadis preaches muslims to do (common in both sects). there are many weak ahadis in both the 6 sahi ahadis books of sunni muslims and 4 ahadis books of shia islam. and most of those ahadis are usually used to label the opposite sects as kaffir. if that is the logic then islam literally doesn't exist these days. so, why we can not live like human beings and do not harm anyone by labelling them as something which they are not. if someone really wants to know then we need to stop listening and start to study just like we get other sciences through studies, how can we just listen to someone and believe. usually some shia public considers all sunnis as khawarijis and some sunni public considers all shia as nuserees. and this is all due to lake of studies and result of listening to jahil mullahs and jahil zakir. (jahil mullah and zakirs means those who sepnds few years in a madrisa and starts spreading fitna). read by yourself or listen to those real ulama who preaches for unity not for division.
All I hear is sects, sects, sects, sects, sects when the Islam itself is against sects. If you believe in a sect or follow any sect then you are going against the Quran. You even quoted the ayah and you are still talking about sects. And hadith is not divine, reliable or contains any jurisprudence or edict. So bringing hadith into the conversation is meaningless.

And also a wonderful point was made that when it comes to shia-ism you cannot discount "jahil mullahs and zakirs" because shia-ism is a creation of jahil mullahs and zakirs.
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
All I hear is sects, sects, sects, sects, sects when the Islam itself is against sects. If you believe in a sect or follow any sect then you are going against the Quran. You even quoted the ayah and you are still talking about sects. And hadith is not divine, reliable or contains any jurisprudence or edict. So bringing hadith into the conversation is meaningless.

And also a wonderful point was made that when it comes to shia-ism you cannot discount "jahil mullahs and zakirs" because shia-ism is a creation of jahil mullahs and zakirs.
sect does not mean division. it means different school of thought based on very valid bases and it is not new it started after the death of holy prophet. still there are more common things and all of us can come united on common points.
and if you denounce Hadis then half of fiqah will be wiped out, as you can not understand each and everything in the holy Quran without the help of Hadis and sunnah. and all Muslims has firm belief on Hadis. i am shocked by what you said that Hadis is meaningless. neither sunni nor shia was creation of jahil mullahs but narrow minded and takfeeri (khawarijs and nuseeris) were creation of jahil mullahs.
so, lets end this meaningless discussion. we have difference of opinion. and I still believe in unity not in division. JazakAllah
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
sect does not mean division. it means different school of thought
Tomato, tomayto, call it what you may but its the same thing.


if you denounce Hadis then half of fiqah will be wiped out,
Good, most of what is considered Islam today, specially in the subcontinent in actuality has nothing to do with Islam.

as you can not understand each and everything in the holy Quran without the help of Hadis and sunnah.
Sunnah is totally difference from hadith.


and all Muslims has firm belief on Hadis.
Hadith is of a historical and biographical nature, there is no question of belief in it or not involved. Take it for its historical and biographical nature and not as a holy book/s with jurisprudence, commands and edicts.

i am shocked by what you said that Hadis is meaningless.
Correction I said brining hadith into this conversation is meaningless


neither sunni nor shia was creation of jahil mullahs
Incorrect. Just as a contemporary desi example, who created the deviant Berelvi and Deobandi sects or as you like to call "school of thoughts"?


I still believe in unity not in division.
And yet you give long sermons of how not take people as your friends and live in harmony because of twisted interpretations and out of context quotes. Hypocrisy much?
 

MS pakistani

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Tomato, tomayto, call it what you may but its the same thing.



Good, most of what is considered Islam today, specially in the subcontinent in actuality has nothing to do with Islam.


Sunnah is totally difference from hadith.



Hadith is of a historical and biographical nature, there is no question of belief in it or not involved. Take it for its historical and biographical nature and not as a holy book/s with jurisprudence, commands and edicts.


Correction I said brining hadith into this conversation is meaningless



Incorrect. Just as a contemporary desi example, who created the deviant Berelvi and Deobandi sects or as you like to call "school of thoughts"?



And yet you give long sermons of how not take people as your friends and live in harmony because of twisted interpretations and out of context quotes. Hypocrisy much?
no comments. good luck. ?
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
no comments. good luck. ?
becky-lynch-disarm-her.gif


Tapped out so soon? So disappointing, I thought you would last longer.