Kia Lohar, Tirkhan, Mochi, Dohobi, Nai, Marasi, etc hona Gunah hay

Common_pakistani

MPA (400+ posts)
We are talking so much about the change but don't know the real meaning of change.
The real change will come only when the minds shall ready to accept there is no Cast system in Islam and now in modern world.

Why still the above profession considered as abuse. Why not some one write with his name any of above like
  • Syed,
  • Khan
  • Mian
  • Chohadry
  • Cheema, Chatta
  • Abbasi
  • Khoro, Jatoai, etc
In fact this the real cause of our country to remain backward and will be remain ( I know so many abuse shall on thread) due to this because due to this system all the talented kids start telling lie from the first day of school.
If you got some prosperity, the first job of these profession people will shift from village/town/Mohalla/city to other where start the life with new cast.

This mean foundation is based on corruption, socikistan al corruption, so how can we expect that the person shall not do it in future.



But the lesson from the history that,
  • Europe prosperity started once they break this system of lords
  • Chinese start developing once they practically make the one que for Biggest Han and lowest common man.
  • USA is super power because anyone can be success full no matter of its cast

The most funny reality is that even writer(myself) is scared of society and not able to write what is the real I am.

In my opinion, Pakistan shall start prosperity journey, When any big position holder like Ministers, department heads or chiefs write with his name like belo
xxxxxxx dhobi
yyyyyyy mochi
zzzzzzz Nai
 

Common_pakistani

MPA (400+ posts)
It is not a sin to be form any profession, corruption is sin.
Financial corruption is not the corruption only.
To change your cast with fear of society is not a corruption, I am the one also corrupt for the same.
Can you give me only one example from Pakistan history when at the top position did use the same with his name like bigger casts.

Only one example.
 

Eyeaan

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Perhaps quite a confused article to say the least.
You may argue that feudalism system causes backwardness (and restricts the true potential of members - be that a serf or a lord) in an emergent capitalist/liberal society. But there is more to it.

he change from feudal to capitalist/liberal/modern social organizations results from material changes in economic , social and legal infrastructure and particularly it needs a modern state (which we have at present time however the legal and social structure is yet evolving.)
Caste has little role in this evolution rather it is the symptom of a regressive social organization than for a cause.
The process of wealth generation and production is one prime factor which brings social changes in a society -- and rarely the other way round.

Disparities of wealth and social access to state institution are the problems - not the surname of anyone.

As you you may expect -- for the lesson of history as listed in the post - I only wish the matter was so simple and obvious. Rather I'm afraid those assertions are factually wrong.

Are you suggesting to (legally) ban the usage of family name and replace then with profession's name -- to what gain? and how? Or are you raising this issue for social reform and awareness ?

In India Muslim, Sikh and Buddhists have been major reform/religious movement which have ended the Hindu caste system. (sikhs had ended the surname and replaced them with generic names of Singh and Kour etc. - yet the family names surged again - recently even more.)

Hindu caste system is an entirely different matter -- There have been several dozens of reform movements among Hindus (like Bhagti and even Krishna) over the centuries to end/reform caste system but with limited results.
The Hindu caste is the prime identity of an individual which cannot be diminished. Hindu caste is based on the concepts of reincarnation, karma, and Hindu view of world history. Please do not mix up these two entirely different concepts. Without any doubt Hindu caste system has been the largest and gravest crime among whole humanity.
 

Common_pakistani

MPA (400+ posts)
Perhaps quite a confused article to say the least.
You may argue that feudalism system causes backwardness (and restricts the true potential of members - be that a serf or a lord) in an emergent capitalist/liberal society. But there is more to it.

he change from feudal to capitalist/liberal/modern social organizations results from material changes in economic , social and legal infrastructure and particularly it needs a modern state (which we have at present time however the legal and social structure is yet evolving.)
Caste has little role in this evolution rather it is the symptom of a regressive social organization than for a cause.
The process of wealth generation and production is one prime factor which brings social changes in a society -- and rarely the other way round.

Disparities of wealth and social access to state institution are the problems - not the surname of anyone.

As you you may expect -- for the lesson of history as listed in the post - I only wish the matter was so simple and obvious. Rather I'm afraid those assertions are factually wrong.

Are you suggesting to (legally) ban the usage of family name and replace then with profession's name -- to what gain? and how? Or are you raising this issue for social reform and awareness ?

In India Muslim, Sikh and Buddhists have been major reform/religious movement which have ended the Hindu caste system. (sikhs had ended the surname and replaced them with generic names of Singh and Kour etc. - yet the family names surged again - recently even more.)

Hindu caste system is an entirely different matter -- There have been several dozens of reform movements among Hindus (like Bhagti and even Krishna) over the centuries to end/reform caste system but with limited results.
The Hindu caste is the prime identity of an individual which cannot be diminished. Hindu caste is based on the concepts of reincarnation, karma, and Hindu view of world history. Please do not mix up these two entirely different concepts. Without any doubt Hindu caste system has been the largest and gravest crime among whole humanity.
Thanks for good and valuable reply,
just for information that indian muslim did not have these reform.
can you told me any top caste Muslim family is easily allow his son (no chance for daughter) to marry low caste as explained above
In subcontinent only Sikh have diminished it but for Muslims still a big hurdle
 

Liberal 000

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
But why every time we want give bad word on any action will use these profession
such as
ZAAT the Khorkili and Shateeran no Jhappa.

The lower castes in Pakistan were all Jats and Rajputs who at some point of time fell in social status after losing their lands and kingdoms . Problem in Pakistan is we failed to recognize this problem hence did nothing to solve it

The first Indian Empire the Nanda Dynasty was started by a Nai.

The mother of Ashoka was also form a professional caste even some say Ashoka too . The caste system in ancient India was not rigid but with time it became something else and destroyed the unity of the people and all became the victims of foreign invasions

In Modern India we see progress

Modi is a Teli and he is proud of it

Nowadays , most of the big and influential politicians in India are from former lower castes The constitution of India was written by a Mochi Ambedkar and he is considered equal to Gandhi in India . There is 28% government job quota for the poor professional castes to empower them

Against Mugals only Sikhs and Marathas became a formidable force only because they cared little about caste system
 
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Liberal 000

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Thanks for good and valuable reply,
just for information that indian muslim did not have these reform.
can you told me any top caste Muslim family is easily allow his son (no chance for daughter) to marry low caste as explained above
In subcontinent only Sikh have diminished it but for Muslims still a big hurdle

Sikhs too failed to eliminate it but yes they succeeded in raising the status of the professional castes. Reality is no civilization can take birth without the professional castes
 

Common_pakistani

MPA (400+ posts)
The lower castes in Pakistan were all Jats and Rajputs who at some point of time fell in social status after losing their lands and kingdoms . Problem in Pakistan is we failed to recognize this problem hence did nothing to solve it

The first Indian Empire the Nanda Dynasty was started by a Nai.

The mother of Ashoka was also form a professional caste even some say Ashoka too . The caste system in ancient India was not rigid but with time it became something else and destroyed the unity of the people and all became the victims of foreign invasions

In Modern India we see progress

Modi is a Teli and he is proud of it

Nowadays , most of the big and influential politicians in India are from former lower castes The constitution of India was written by a Mochi Ambedkar and he is considered equal to Gandhi in India . There is 28% government job quota for the poor professional castes to empower them

Against Mugals only Sikhs and Marathas became a formidable force only because they cared little about caste system
"Modi is a Teli and he is proud of it"

Then he not proudly write Narendra Teli

It also proved my point that due to social pressure even the biggest brave (so called) become cowered and don't find enough courage to have predecessor or successor with it.

I remember one big name, who did it
Siraj Qasim Teli