NY Times - A realistic representation of Indian intrusion into Pakistan

Will_Bite

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Some realistic words and saner voices.
India scrambled into an area which is less populated, and did so in the still of the night with very specific aims.
  • They had a political need to respond, because that made them score points domestically.
  • They could not afford any real damage, because that would invite immediate retaliation from Pakistan.
  • They have elections due in 2 months, and Modi doesnt have a lock on it so far. He needed a drama like this.
  • India has recently struggled diplomatically against Pakistan, and needed a 'feel good factor'. Nothing better to soothe a battered ego than a drama like this.
Its almost embarrassing to see some sections from within Pakistan responding the same way as Indians did after Pulwama. Pakistan has an edge on India in terms of diplomacy and international relations, and they can use that edge to score a diplomatic win. Militarily, we can always use border skirmishes to take out posts, and cause real damage. Make it count.

Indian Jets inside Pakistan

it was unclear what, if anything, the attack jets hit on the Pakistani side, raising the possibility that India was making a calculated bet to assuage public anger but minimize the risk of a major Pakistani military response.
Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that Pakistan no longer runs such camps and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country. Analysts and diplomats in New Delhi said the targets of the Indian airstrikes were unclear, as any terrorist groups operating along the border would have cleared out in recent days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India vowed retaliation over the Kashmir attack
The Indian attack is likely to draw a response from Pakistan, analysts say.
“The Pakistanis are bound to react, conventionally and not through a proxy like a militant group,” said Rahul Bedi, an analyst at the London-based Jane’s Information Group, which tracks the defense industry. “Where they react and when is something that only Pakistanis know. This is a dangerous situation, as this brinkmanship can escalate quickly.”
“What they hit is speculation for now — they say they hit a terrorist camp, but a lot of intelligence sources say those camps in Pakistan had been cleaned out in recent days,” Mr. Bedi said. “This is more political symbolism than anything else. Mr. Modi had to show some demonstrable action on India’s part, ahead of elections.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1100413562873245696
D0V0SP3VYAEkyBz


D0V0SwUV4AAPiSj
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ahmed Jawad

MPA (400+ posts)
Some realistic words and saner voices.
India scrambled into an area which is less populated, and did so in the still of the night with very specific aims.
  • They had a political need to respond, because that made them score points domestically.
  • They could not afford any real damage, because that would invite immediate retaliation from Pakistan.
  • They have elections due in 2 months, and Modi doesnt have a lock on it so far. He needed a drama like this.
  • India has recently struggled diplomatically against Pakistan, and needed a 'feel good factor'. Nothing better to soothe a battered ego than a drama like this.
Its almost embarrassing to see some sections from within Pakistan responding the same way as Indians did after Pulwama. Pakistan has an edge on India in terms of diplomacy and international relations, and they can use that edge to score a diplomatic win. Militarily, we can always use border skirmishes to take out posts, and cause real damage. Make it count.

Indian Jets inside Pakistan
can you copy paste the complete here, I cannot read due to subscription lock
 

Will_Bite

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
can you copy paste the complete here, I cannot read due to subscription lock

By Maria Abi-Habib and Austin Ramzy

NEW DELHI — Indian warplanes conducted airstrikes in Pakistan on Tuesday, Pakistani officials said, in an escalation of tensions between the nuclear-armed nations after a suicide bombing against Indian troops in the disputed region this month.

If confirmed, it would be the first time that Indian aircraft had crossed the Kashmir Line of Control to strike in years. But it was unclear what, if anything, the attack jets hit on the Pakistani side, raising the possibility that India was making a calculated bet to assuage public anger but minimize the risk of a major Pakistani military response.

A spokesman for Pakistan’s armed forces, Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor, on Tuesday posted on Twitter four images of a forested area pockmarked with small craters and debris, which he said was the site of Indian airstrikes.

The Indian Foreign Ministry confirmed in a news briefing that a strike had occurred but would give no further details. The Indian news media, quoting local military officials, said Indian Mirage 2000 fighter jets dropped bombs on a “terrorist camp” in Pakistan-controlled territory at 3:30 a.m. local time.


No casualties or damage were reported, General Ghafoor said. The planes dropped the bombs near Balakot, which is close to the disputed border of India and Pakistan.

“Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot,” General Ghafoor wrote.

Tensions have escalated in the Kashmir Valley since a Feb. 14 attack by a suicide bomber who drove an explosive-filled vehicle into a convoy of Indian troops. At least 40 soldiers were killed, the deadliest attack in the region in decades. India blamed Pakistan for the assault.

Though India and Pakistan routinely shell each other across what is known as the Line of Control, this is the first time in years that either side has deployed warplanes to fly across it.

Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that Pakistan no longer runs such camps and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country.

Analysts and diplomats in New Delhi said the targets of the Indian airstrikes were unclear, as any terrorist groups operating along the border would have cleared out in recent days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India vowed retaliation over the Kashmir attack.

Residents have also fled the area as hundreds of Kashmiris have been arrested and Indian troops have moved more troops into the region.

The Indian attack is likely to draw a response from Pakistan, analysts say.

“The Pakistanis are bound to react, conventionally and not through a proxy like a militant group,” said Rahul Bedi, an analyst at the London-based Jane’s Information Group, which tracks the defense industry. “Where they react and when is something that only Pakistanis know. This is a dangerous situation, as this brinkmanship can escalate quickly.”

The American government has typically been a broker between India and Pakistan, conducting shuttle diplomacy in similarly heated situations. But President Trump has taken a hard line on Pakistan while drawing closer to India since coming to office in 2017. Observers fear the situation may escalate further in the absence of a third nation tamping down tensions.

Early last year, Mr. Trump cut some $1.3 billion in military assistance to Pakistan because of the country’s support of terrorist groups. Pakistan’s military denies that it engages terrorist groups to achieve its defense and foreign policy objectives.

India controls much of Kashmir, while Pakistan controls a smaller part of the region, which was left in an undetermined state after the British partition of India in 1947. It has seen decades of violence from militants seeking independence.

In the run-up to Indian elections this spring, and with Mr. Modi facing a fierce a re-election fight, voters have demanded that New Delhi respond to the Kashmir attack with force against Pakistan.

“What they hit is speculation for now — they say they hit a terrorist camp, but a lot of intelligence sources say those camps in Pakistan had been cleaned out in recent days,” Mr. Bedi said. “This is more political symbolism than anything else. Mr. Modi had to show some demonstrable action on India’s part, ahead of elections.”


Jeffrey Gettleman contributed reporting from New Delhi, and Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan.
 

Lord Botta

Minister (2k+ posts)
It is pretty much obvious as to why India carried out this attack and why Indian gov and media are exaggerating it. The question is that all this "ego , feel good , elections" stunt was done at the expense of our national security and how should we respond to it.
 

insouciant

Minister (2k+ posts)
It's a very balanced piece indeed. But I am struggling to understand one thing! BBC is typically known to be very unbiased. But BBC Urdu has been doing a lot of anti-Pakistan journalism recently! What's going on there? Are they under RAW's influence?


By Maria Abi-Habib and Austin Ramzy

NEW DELHI — Indian warplanes conducted airstrikes in Pakistan on Tuesday, Pakistani officials said, in an escalation of tensions between the nuclear-armed nations after a suicide bombing against Indian troops in the disputed region this month.

If confirmed, it would be the first time that Indian aircraft had crossed the Kashmir Line of Control to strike in years. But it was unclear what, if anything, the attack jets hit on the Pakistani side, raising the possibility that India was making a calculated bet to assuage public anger but minimize the risk of a major Pakistani military response.

A spokesman for Pakistan’s armed forces, Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor, on Tuesday posted on Twitter four images of a forested area pockmarked with small craters and debris, which he said was the site of Indian airstrikes.

The Indian Foreign Ministry confirmed in a news briefing that a strike had occurred but would give no further details. The Indian news media, quoting local military officials, said Indian Mirage 2000 fighter jets dropped bombs on a “terrorist camp” in Pakistan-controlled territory at 3:30 a.m. local time.


No casualties or damage were reported, General Ghafoor said. The planes dropped the bombs near Balakot, which is close to the disputed border of India and Pakistan.

“Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot,” General Ghafoor wrote.

Tensions have escalated in the Kashmir Valley since a Feb. 14 attack by a suicide bomber who drove an explosive-filled vehicle into a convoy of Indian troops. At least 40 soldiers were killed, the deadliest attack in the region in decades. India blamed Pakistan for the assault.

Though India and Pakistan routinely shell each other across what is known as the Line of Control, this is the first time in years that either side has deployed warplanes to fly across it.

Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that Pakistan no longer runs such camps and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country.

Analysts and diplomats in New Delhi said the targets of the Indian airstrikes were unclear, as any terrorist groups operating along the border would have cleared out in recent days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India vowed retaliation over the Kashmir attack.

Residents have also fled the area as hundreds of Kashmiris have been arrested and Indian troops have moved more troops into the region.

The Indian attack is likely to draw a response from Pakistan, analysts say.

“The Pakistanis are bound to react, conventionally and not through a proxy like a militant group,” said Rahul Bedi, an analyst at the London-based Jane’s Information Group, which tracks the defense industry. “Where they react and when is something that only Pakistanis know. This is a dangerous situation, as this brinkmanship can escalate quickly.”

The American government has typically been a broker between India and Pakistan, conducting shuttle diplomacy in similarly heated situations. But President Trump has taken a hard line on Pakistan while drawing closer to India since coming to office in 2017. Observers fear the situation may escalate further in the absence of a third nation tamping down tensions.

Early last year, Mr. Trump cut some $1.3 billion in military assistance to Pakistan because of the country’s support of terrorist groups. Pakistan’s military denies that it engages terrorist groups to achieve its defense and foreign policy objectives.

India controls much of Kashmir, while Pakistan controls a smaller part of the region, which was left in an undetermined state after the British partition of India in 1947. It has seen decades of violence from militants seeking independence.

In the run-up to Indian elections this spring, and with Mr. Modi facing a fierce a re-election fight, voters have demanded that New Delhi respond to the Kashmir attack with force against Pakistan.

“What they hit is speculation for now — they say they hit a terrorist camp, but a lot of intelligence sources say those camps in Pakistan had been cleaned out in recent days,” Mr. Bedi said. “This is more political symbolism than anything else. Mr. Modi had to show some demonstrable action on India’s part, ahead of elections.”


Jeffrey Gettleman contributed reporting from New Delhi, and Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan.
 

Will_Bite

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
It's a very balanced piece indeed. But I am struggling to understand one thing! BBC is typically known to be very unbiased. But BBC Urdu has been doing a lot of anti-Pakistan journalism recently! What's going on there? Are they under RAW's influence?
BBC Urdu gets its editorial content from its parent, BBC. SO naturally they are influenced in their views. India has a stronger lobby working for them in the UK. That is what we need to counter more .
 

Steyn

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Some realistic words and saner voices.
India scrambled into an area which is less populated, and did so in the still of the night with very specific aims.
  • They had a political need to respond, because that made them score points domestically.
  • They could not afford any real damage, because that would invite immediate retaliation from Pakistan.
  • They have elections due in 2 months, and Modi doesnt have a lock on it so far. He needed a drama like this.
  • India has recently struggled diplomatically against Pakistan, and needed a 'feel good factor'. Nothing better to soothe a battered ego than a drama like this.

Its almost embarrassing to see some sections from within Pakistan responding the same way as Indians did after Pulwama. Pakistan has an edge on India in terms of diplomacy and international relations, and they can use that edge to score a diplomatic win. Militarily, we can always use border skirmishes to take out posts, and cause real damage. Make it count.

Indian Jets inside Pakistan

The issue is

India was able to stay in Pakistani airspace for several minutes and travel miles. Pakistan was unable or didn't shoot down their planes.

Every war is fought in the still of the night idiot. Every country has radar and India had said that they will attack. This is an embarrassment for Pakistan.

If India gets away with this then they will next drop bombs on your nuclear depots because they know that they can fly over your airspace and you're incapable of retaliating.

You can't fly over American airspace for more than a few seconds without them warning you and shooting you down.

The morons of the huge kind are happy about it being a payload. Idiots, someone came into your house and stayed in it and you're happy that they didn't steal anything?
 

insouciant

Minister (2k+ posts)
Well it appears that Indian Media is very well prepared!

They are managing two different narratives. One for their local public and one for international community to avoid any sanctions etc.

I've been watching indian channels since morning and my blood's been boiling!

They probably have the only news network in the world that has zero presence in Pakistan but have every information!! ??

BBC Urdu gets its editorial content from its parent, BBC. SO naturally they are influenced in their views. India has a stronger lobby working for them in the UK. That is what we need to counter more .
 

desan

President (40k+ posts)
Indian warplanes conducted airstrikes in Pakistan on Tuesday, Pakistani officials said, in an escalation of tensions between the nuclear-armed nations after a suicide bombing against Indian troops in the disputed Kashmir region this month.

It was the first time that Indian aircraft had crossed the Kashmir Line of Control to strike in decades. But it was unclear what, if anything, the attack jets hit on the Pakistani side, raising the possibility that India was making a calculated bet to assuage public anger but minimize the risk of a major Pakistani military response.
A spokesman for Pakistan’s armed forces, Maj. Gen. Asif Ghafoor, on Tuesday posted on Twitter four images of a forested area pockmarked with small craters and debris, which he said was the site of Indian airstrikes.

The Indian Foreign Ministry confirmed in a news briefing that a strike had occurred but would give no further details. The Indian news media, quoting local military officials, said Indian Mirage 2000 fighter jets dropped bombs on a “terrorist camp” in Pakistan-controlled territory at 3:30 a.m. local time.
No casualties or damage were reported, General Ghafoor said. The planes dropped the bombs near Balakot, which is close to the disputed border of India and Pakistan.

“Facing timely and effective response from Pakistan Air Force released payload in haste while escaping which fell near Balakot,” General Ghafoor wrote.
Tensions have escalated in the Kashmir Valley since a Feb. 14 attack by a suicide bomber who drove an explosive-filled vehicle into a convoy of Indian troops. At least 40 soldiers were killed, the deadliest attack in the region in decades. India blamed Pakistan for the assault.

Though India and Pakistan routinely shell each other across what is known as the Line of Control, this is the first time in years that either side has deployed warplanes to fly across it.

Western security officials have raised questions about the existence of a large-scale training camp, saying that Pakistan no longer runs such camps and that militant groups are spread out in small groups around the country.

Analysts and diplomats in New Delhi said the targets of the Indian airstrikes were unclear, as any terrorist groups operating along the border would have cleared out in recent days after Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India vowed retaliation over the Kashmir attack.

Residents have also fled the area as hundreds of Kashmiris have been arrested and India has moved more troops into the region.
The Indian attack is likely to draw a response from Pakistan, analysts say.

The Pakistanis are bound to react, conventionally and not through a proxy like a militant group,” said Rahul Bedi, an analyst at the London-based Jane’s Information Group, which tracks the defense industry. “Where they react and when is something that only Pakistanis know. This is a dangerous situation, as this brinkmanship can escalate quickly.”

The American government has typically been a broker between India and Pakistan, conducting shuttle diplomacy in similarly heated situations. But President Trump has taken a hard line on Pakistan while drawing closer to India since coming to office in 2017. Observers fear the situation may escalate further in the absence of a third nation tamping down tensions.

Early last year, Mr. Trump cut some $1.3 billion in military assistance to Pakistan because of the country’s support of terrorist groups. Pakistan’s military denies that it engages terrorist groups to achieve its defense and foreign policy objectives.

India controls much of Kashmir, while Pakistan controls a smaller part of the region, which was left in an undetermined state after the British partition of India in 1947. It has seen decades of violence from militants seeking independence.
[New development: After India’s strike on Pakistan, both sides leave room for de-escalation.]

In the run-up to Indian elections this spring, and with Mr. Modi facing a fierce a re-election fight, voters have demanded that New Delhi respond to the Kashmir attack with force against Pakistan.

“What they hit is speculation for now — they say they hit a terrorist camp, but a lot of intelligence sources say those camps in Pakistan had been cleaned out in recent days,” Mr. Bedi said. “This is more political symbolism than anything else. Mr. Modi had to show some demonstrable action on India’s part, ahead of elections.”
Jeffrey Gettleman contributed reporting from New Delhi, and Salman Masood from Islamabad, Pakistan.

 

desan

President (40k+ posts)
Western analysts are admitting that we have done what we claim...

However, it will be hard to convince PML-N and Libtards who probably will still demand to have "our house put in order"!!!
 
Last edited:

Eyeaan

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
NYT is misleading by speculating that 'recently' the area would have been cleared.
Indians are lying; there was no JEM camp in the area.
Up to 2002, there used to be a camp - but musharraf had eliminated all such camps especially around Kashmir region. That camp was turned into a madrassa. The building of madrassa is not hit.
Indian have cooked up a story around that 2000 camp. Probably their targets were different but they were made to run back to border.
As far as Hindu media and Hindu fanatics are concerned, they are played by crooks like Modi for a century but NYT shouldn't give vague news.