Vaccine or No Vaccine or Which Vaccine?

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Since the outbreak of COVID-19, the world is eyeing a miracle in the form of a vaccine to root out this problem.

Though, the vaccines have been prepared, yet not tested due to limitations of time to be declared 100% safe for human consumption.

But, by looking at the spread of the disease and the disastrous aftermaths, the human race is now confronted with a problem of choosing between the devil and the deep sea -- The vaccine does not guarantee a promising protection against the epidemic and it also does not guarantee any adverse reactions.

Secondly, the strain of the virus is also not stable at the moment. It is mutating quite fast and therefore, it is still unclear that which type of the virus would prevail and will the existing type of vaccine be effective against any such strain?

Since the rollout of the controversial Astra Zeneca and the deaths due to blood clots in the subjects who received it, nine of the EU countries have dropped the vaccination program altogether, including Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Italy, Estonia, Lithuania, Luxembourg and Latvia.

Although, no such reports have been observed against the Chinese CanSino vaccine so far. The specialists say that although the two variants of the vaccine are technically the same, but there is only a difference of the serum used, as the Astra Zeneca uses the Gorilla serum, which the CanSino uses the Human Serum for its vaccine. The other probable issues can be the quality gaps during production as the largest producer of Astra Zeneca's serum is India, having a capacityof producing over 50 million doses a month.

However, the CanSino vaccine also lacks proper data as the Chinese pharma cannot collect proper data from its own population as very less cases are being reported due to strict lockdowns. However, since its rollout in Brazil and other countries, no such side effects have been reported so far, yet, the reports raises a brow over the efficacy of these vaccines.

Third in the line is the Russian Sputnik-V vaccine, which is classed as shady grey due to the lack of proper information on it as well as details of the production/synthesis methods. This has led to a straightforward rejection of the vaccine by the EU countries as well as a recent rejection by Brazil, calling that this vaccine can induce serious problems.

Now one stands at the crossroads of making a decision about which COVID-19 vaccine he should opt for and whether is getting a shot is necessary?

Since the Chinese model is puzzling, which reduced the infection rate to almost naught by the virtue of strict lockdowns and social distancing alone.
 
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Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Since the outbreak of COVID-19, the world is eyeing a miracle in the form of a vaccine to root out this problem.

Though, the vaccines have been prepared, yet not tested due to limitations of time to be declared 100% safe for human consumption.

But, by looking at the spread of the disease and the disastrous aftermaths, the human race is now confronted with a problem of choosing between the devil and the deep sea -- The vaccine does not guarantee a promising protection against the epidemic, it also does not prevent one from catching the infection and it also does not guarantee any adverse reactions.

Secondly, the strain of the virus is also not stable at the moment. It is mutating quite fast and therefore, it is still unclear that which type of the virus would prevail and will the existing type of vaccine be effective against any such strain?

Since the rollout of the controversial Astra Zeneca and the deaths due to blood clots in the subjects who received it, nine of the EU countries have dropped the vaccination program altogether, including Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Italy, Estonia, Lithuania, Luxembourg and Latvia.

Although, no such reports have been observed against the Chinese CanSino vaccine so far. The specialists say that although the two variants of the vaccine are technically the same, but there is only a difference of the serum used, as the Astra Zeneca uses the Gorilla serum, which the CanSino uses the Human Serum for its vaccine. The other probable issues can be the quality gaps during production as the largest producer of Astra Zeneca's serum is India, having a capacityof producing over 50 million doses a month.

However, the CanSino vaccine also lacks proper data as the Chinese pharma cannot collect proper data from its own population as very less cases are being reported due to strict lockdowns. However, since its rollout in Brazil and other countries, no such side effects have been reported so far, yet, the reports raises a brow over the efficacy of these vaccines.

Third in the line is the Russian Sputnik-V vaccine, which is classed as shady grey due to the lack of proper information on it as well as details of the production/synthesis methods. This has led to a straightforward rejection of the vaccine by the EU countries as well as a recent rejection by Brazil, calling that this vaccine can induce serious problems.

Now one stands at the crossroads of making a decision about which COVID-19 vaccine he should opt for and whether is getting a shot is necessary?

Since the Chinese model is puzzling, which reduced the infection rate to almost naught by the virtue of strict lockdowns and social distancing alone.
I have heard that the Pfizer vaccine may cause neurodegenerative disease.
We are really stuck between the devil and the deep sea.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I have heard that the Pfizer vaccine may cause neurodegenerative disease.
We are really stuck between the devil and the deep sea.
Developing vaccines is a complex matter. Vaccines are usually tested over a period of time to ascertain their safety and effectiveness.

To further complicate the problem is the behavior of the virus itself, since it is mutating quite fast. The new Indian strain has boggled many scientific heads. There is also a lack of proper information that whether one type of vaccine is effectie on all the strains fo the virus or not. Moreover, who knows what strain will the virus attain after two or three months?

In my personal point of view, vaccine provides no better cure than proper social distancing and preventive measures such as washing hands and wearing masks.

The point you raised is pertinent to consider as well, because the vaccine used for COVID-19 is an activated virus vaccine, which is quite dangerous in itself.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
One more thing to add is that whether there is a role of the vaccine itself in such rapid mutations of the virus?
 

Digital_Pakistani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
All vaccines whether Chines or American keep from getting severe COVID/hospitalized and are the only way for the world to get rid of pandemic. There have been a billion doses administered around the world and a negligible fraction got adverse effects (equal to the chance of an airplane crashing at your home).

States all over the world keep an eye on strains and do necessary tweaking if needed for a particular vaccine.
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Posting as received.

Russia has become the first country in the world to perform an autopsy (post-mortem) for a Covid-19 corpse. After a thorough investigation, it was discovered that Covid-19 does not exist as a virus, but rather a bacterium that has been exposed to radiation and causes human death by coagulation in the blood.
The covid-19 disease has been found to cause blood clotting, which causes blood clotting in humans and causes blood clotting in the veins, which makes it difficult for a person to breathe because the brain, heart, and lungs cannot receive oxygen, causing people to die quickly.

To find the cause of the shortage of respiratory energy, doctors in Russia did not listen to the WHO protocol and performed an autopsy on COVID-19. After doctors opened arms, legs, and other parts of the body and carefully examined them, they noticed that the blood vessels were dilated and filled with blood clots, which impeded blood flow and also reduced the flow of oxygen. In the body, it causes the death of the patient. After learning about this research, the Russian Ministry of Health immediately changed the treatment protocol for Covid-19 and gave aspirin to its positive patients. I started taking 100 mg and Imromac. As a result, patients began to recover and their health began to improve. The Russian Ministry of Health evacuated more than 14,000 patients in one day and sent them home.
After a period of scientific discovery, doctors in Russia explained the treatment method by saying that the disease is a global trick, “It is nothing but coagulation inside blood vessels (blood clots) and a method of treatment.
Antibiotic tablets
Anti-inflammatory and
Take an anticoagulant (aspirin).
This indicates that it is possible to treat the disease.
According to other Russian scientists, ventilators and an intensive care unit (ICU) were never needed. Protocols for this effect have already been published in Russia.
China already knows this, but it has never released its report.
Share this information with your family, neighbors, acquaintances, friends, and colleagues so that they can get rid of the fear of Covid-19 and realize that this is not a virus, but a bacterium that has only been exposed to radiation. Only people with very low immunity should be careful. This radiation also causes inflammation and hypoxia. Victims should take Asprin-100mg and Apronik or Paracetamol 650mg.

Source: Russian Ministry of Health
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
All vaccines whether Chines or American keep from getting severe COVID/hospitalized and are the only way for the world to get rid of pandemic. There have been a billion doses administered around the world and a negligible fraction got adverse effects (equal to the chance of an airplane crashing at your home).

States all over the world keep an eye on strains and do necessary tweaking if needed for a particular vaccine.
Well, by looking at those nine countries of Europe, dropping the vaccination program altogether, I doubt that the statistics shared of the side effects of the vaccine are a variation of the truth.

Furthermore, how can one ascertain right from the start that a particular person if prone to get a serious infection which would need hospitalization?

The recovery rate of asymptomatic COVID-19 patients is more than 92%. 4% can develop symptoms and may require moderate to intense healthcare support. The rest 4% are prone to deaths, provided their complications arise from other prevalent conditions as well, like diabetes, coronary/ischemic heart diseases and/or respiratory problems.

Now how far the vaccine has proved to prevent cases of comorbidity (the last 4%), is actually questionable here.
 

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
US vaccines ( Pfizer and Moderna ) are the best in terms of both efficacy and safety ( J&J is very effective too but it’s safety is under question). Extensive data is available about the safety and efficacy of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. But the real issue is that US will not export them before their own 70% population is not inoculated. That will happen around July-August this year. No other vaccine ( AstraZeneca, CanSino, Sputnik) is as good as Pfizer and Moderna are.
 
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barkat99

MPA (400+ posts)
I urge the website to only share authentic news with relation to covid vaccination. Fake news should be avoided as this is a serious matter impacting human lives. I have and many people I know have taken vaccination and have had no side effects from it and currently it seems vaccination is the only solution to fight this pandemic. I urge everyone to please only share news with authentic source and evidence.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
US vaccines ( Pfizer and Moderna ) are the best in terms of both efficacy and safety ( J&J is very effective too but it’s safety is under question). There is an extensive data is available about the safety and efficacy of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. But the real issue is that US will not export them before their own 70% population is not inoculated. That will happen around July-August this year. No other vaccine ( AstraZeneca, CanSino, Sputnik) is as good as Pfizer and Moderna are.
Even the Pfizer-BioNtech vaccine has been observed causing myocarditis.

The J&J vaccine is already shelved after its safety data was reviewed.

But in all this hustle and bustle, I don't know why people are missing on the evidence based conclusion of China's fight against COVID-19, only by means of strict lockdowns and social distancing?
 

Digital_Pakistani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Well, by looking at those nine countries of Europe, dropping the vaccination program altogether, I doubt that the statistics shared of the side effects of the vaccine are a variation of the truth.

Furthermore, how can one ascertain right from the start that a particular person if prone to get a serious infection which would need hospitalization?

The recovery rate of asymptomatic COVID-19 patients is more than 92%. 4% can develop symptoms and may require moderate to intense healthcare support. The rest 4% are prone to deaths, provided their complications arise from other prevalent conditions as well, like diabetes, coronary/ischemic heart diseases and/or respiratory problems.

Now how far the vaccine has proved to prevent cases of comorbidity (the last 4%), is actually questionable here.

Those EU countries dropped AstraZeneca for being unpopular due to past incidences. It says

Lucky us, Chinese Vaccines have not been involved in a reported adverse effect.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I urge the website to only share authentic news with relation to covid vaccination. Fake news should be avoided as this is a serious matter impacting human lives. I have and many people I know have taken vaccination and have had no side effects from it and currently it seems vaccination is the only solution to fight this pandemic. I urge everyone to please only share news with authentic source and evidence.
Indeed it is a very serious issue and that is why we are here debating on this topic. It is a life and death issue, in fact.

I take total responsibility of the information I have shared.

Secondly, I happen to have born in a family which has its three generations in the field of medicine.

Third, is that people who have received vaccine are as prone to being infected as a non-inoculated one.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Those EU countries dropped AstraZeneca for being unpopular due to past incidences. It says

Lucky us, Chinese Vaccines have not been involved in a reported adverse effect.
China is basically providing two types of vaccines, one is of a dead virus serum and another is of an activated virus serum.

Plus the data is still short on these vaccines as still the phase III clinical trials are in progress.

Furthermore, apart from the adverse effects, the Chinese vaccine is questioned more about its protective virility against the epidemic.

Last, but not the least.... why isn't the world ready to learn something from the way China has fought this problem ... i.e. lockdowns and preventive measures?
 

Dr Adam

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
You have shared enough good info in your thread and in your subsequent comments and I, for the time being would be "just" happy to digest it "As Is" without offering my personal comments. For me it is too early to offer any comment on the efficacy and after effects of the vaccine in question. Whatever has come out from different sources has a very little 'sample size' and the info emanating from all these sources is too raw when it comes to debate on the subject of vaccines as compared with regular meds.
I have been in regular contact with Who's Who on this C-19 vaccination issue in the US and have figured out that everyone is non committal in his/her response perhaps due to stringent liability laws over here.
I have been gathering info from my colleagues (they from their patients) and from my own patients and other people who have already received both the doses of vaccination and believe you me the response is quite different in each case.
So the best policy is to wait and watch.
پنجابی وچ جنوں اکھیدہ اے : پلہوان چپیٹ وٹ کے رکھیں سوو
 

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Even the Pfizer-BioNtech vaccine has been observed causing myocarditis.

The J&J vaccine is already shelved after its safety data was reviewed.

But in all this hustle and bustle, I don't know why people are missing on the evidence based conclusion of China's fight against COVID-19, only by means of strict lockdowns and social distancing?
I have doubts over China’s reporting. There is no free press in China. Same is the case with North Korea that reported last year that they never had any COVID infection. Very few cases here and there is not a proof that Pfizer has safety issues. World has never prepared any vaccine in its history, which if administered to hundreds of millions of people, had ZERO side effects. The process that FDA follows in granting the approval of any drug/vaccine is very rigorous.

What China did was that ( if I believe their reporting) they contained the virus inside the province in which Wuhan lies. They banned the movements of people between provinces at the beginning and that helped.
 

نادان

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Developing vaccines is a complex matter. Vaccines are usually tested over a period of time to ascertain their safety and effectiveness.

To further complicate the problem is the behavior of the virus itself, since it is mutating quite fast. The new Indian strain has boggled many scientific heads. There is also a lack of proper information that whether one type of vaccine is effectie on all the strains fo the virus or not. Moreover, who knows what strain will the virus attain after two or three months?

In my personal point of view, vaccine provides no better cure than proper social distancing and preventive measures such as washing hands and wearing masks.

The point you raised is pertinent to consider as well, because the vaccine used for COVID-19 is an activated virus vaccine, which is quite dangerous in itself.



 

نادان

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
US vaccines ( Pfizer and Moderna ) are the best in terms of both efficacy and safety ( J&J is very effective too but it’s safety is under question). Extensive data is available about the safety and efficacy of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. But the real issue is that US will not export them before their own 70% population is not inoculated. That will happen around July-August this year. No other vaccine ( AstraZeneca, CanSino, Sputnik) is as good as Pfizer and Moderna are.
I am in 30 %