Wasta aur Waseela de kar dua Mangna

[mediator]

(bigsmile)..In glad you got the point on "Mindunillah" ..Now the "you" in this hadith refers to a Muslim ONLY if he goes to the grave with the INTENTION of WORSHIPPING !

Brother, it seems that all you are doing is justifying your peer's believes by twisting the translations of Quraan and ignoring authentic and very clear Hadeeths on this topic and quoting irrelevant and weak Hadeeths.

I pointed out that you have added the words "amongst these idols" to Surah Taubah verse 116 and I quoted translations done by 4 different translators where they did not added these additional words as done by your peer.

Then I asked a simple question that the word "you" meant Muslim or non-Muslim?

Beware of those who preceded you (I agree here the word "you" meant the non-Muslims) and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that.(Sahih Muslim; Book #004 , Hadith #1083)

Brother could you please let me know in the later part of same hadeeth "but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that." the word "you" meant Muslim or non-Muslim?

Instead of trying to understand the point of view all you are doing is copying and paste your peers logic and not answering my points.

All I can say in this circumstance pray for you that may Allah give you hidayat (Aameen) and say:

Al-Kafiroon | 6 verses | The Disbelievers | Recitation | Topics سورة الكافرون Sura #109 | Makkah

	6 لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
	Yusuf Ali 6: To you be your Way, and to me mine.
	Urdu 6: تمہارے لیے تمہارا دین ہے اور میرے لیے میرا دین

 

[JAHANGEER*]

Allah S W T hamain sahe rasta per chalna ki toufeek daa aameen

 

[modern.fakir]

Brother, it seems like you have become intellectually bankrupt as your rationality has failed in both accepting or refuting ideas. Why are you worried about peers ? ...You should be concerned about the content ...Im a I questioning your NAJDI beliefs ?...Even you are pasting from NAJDI sources ...so please refrain from foul language and get to the point (bigsmile)

Can you explain what this verse means ?

Quran states: Thus did We make their (i.e. Ashaab al-Kahf) case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour of Judgment. Behold, they dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said, "Construct a building over them": Their Lord knows best about them: "THOSE WHO PREVAILED OVER THEIR AFFAIR SAID: LET US SURELY BUILD A MOSQUE OVER THEM" (Surah al-Kahf 18:21)



Tafsir by Imam Fakhr-ud-din Razi (rah), he writes:

أن بعضهم قال: الأولى أن يسد باب الكهف لئلا يدخل عليهم أحد ولا يقف على أحوالهم إنسان. وقال آخرون: بل الأولى أن يبني على باب الكهف مسجد وهذا القول يدل على أن أولئك الأقوام كانوا عارفين بالله معترفين بالعبادة والصلاة

Translation: Some people said that the door of the cave should be closed so that nobody can enter it and the Ahwaal (of People of the cave) are kept hidden. Some people said that It is better to build a mosque at the door, this saying proves thatthese people were “ARIFEEN OF ALLAH WHO BELIEVED IN WORSHIPING (ALLAH) AND PRAYER”[Tafsir al Kabeer, Volume No. 5, Page No. 475]


Do you know more tafseer than Imam Razi ra ?? (bigsmile)

Brother, it seems that all you are doing is justifying your peer's believes by twisting the translations of Quraan and ignoring authentic and very clear Hadeeths on this topic and quoting irrelevant and weak Hadeeths.

I pointed out that you have added the words "amongst these idols" to Surah Taubah verse 116 and I quoted translations done by 4 different translators where they did not added these additional words as done by your peer.

Then I asked a simple question that the word "you" meant Muslim or non-Muslim?

Beware of those who preceded you(I agree here the word "you" meant the non-Muslims) and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that.(Sahih Muslim; Book #004 , Hadith #1083)

Brother could you please let me know in the later part of same hadeeth "but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that." the word "you" meant Muslim or non-Muslim?

Instead of trying to understand the point of view all you are doing is copying and paste your peers logic and not answering my points.

All I can say in this circumstance pray for you that may Allah give you hidayat (Aameen) and say:

Al-Kafiroon | 6 verses | The Disbelievers | Recitation | Topics سورة الكافرون Sura #109 | Makkah

	6 لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
	Yusuf Ali 6: To you be your Way, and to me mine.
	Urdu 6: تمہارے لیے تمہارا دین ہے اور میرے لیے میرا دین

 

[mediator]

Can you explain what this verse means ?

Quran states: Thus did We make their (i.e. Ashaab al-Kahf) case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour of Judgment. Behold, they dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said, "Construct a building over them": Their Lord knows best about them: "THOSE WHO PREVAILED OVER THEIR AFFAIR SAID: LET US SURELY BUILD A MOSQUE OVER THEM" (Surah al-Kahf 18:21)

It is an irony that some people among the Muslims have misconstrued this verse of the Qur'an so as to make it lawful for themselves to build mausoleums, monuments and mosques over the tombs of the righteous persons and saints. The Qur'an has, in fact, pointed out the deviation of the workers of iniquity who prevailed upon others and built a place of worship over the Cave of the Sleepers, who were indeed a Sign of Resurrection and of the life-after-death. But they abused this good opportunity and produced another means of practicing shirk.

One fails to understand how anyone can deduce from this verse an argument for the legality of building mosques over the tombs of the righteous people, when the Holy Prophet has categorically prohibited this:

(1) "Allah has cursed those women who visit tombs and those people who build mosques over them and burn lights over them" (Ahmad, Tirmizi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah).

(2) "Beware that the people, who have passed before you, made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship. I forbid you to do that." (Muslim)

(3) "Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians, for they made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(4) "The behavior of those people was strange: if a righteous person from among them, died they would build a mosque over his grave and draw his pictures. They will be treated as worst criminals on the Day on Resurrection." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(5) Jundub reported: I heard from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) five days before his death and he said: I stand acquitted (بری الذمہ) before Allah that I took any one of you as friend, for Allah has taken me as His friend, as he took Ibrahim as His friend. Had I taken any one of my Ummah as a friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as a friend. Beware of those who preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that. (Sahih Muslim; Book #004 , Hadith #1083 )

Thus, it is clear from the above Sayings of the Holy Prophet that building of the places of worship over the tombs is utterly unlawful; the Qur'an has merely stated as a historical fact the sinful act of the Christian priests and the Roman rulers and has not sanctioned such a thing. Therefore no God-fearing person can turn this into an argument for building mosques over the tombs.

 

[modern.fakir]

[hilar][hilar] IN other words you have NO response to this verse other than your useless rhetoric ??

Are you trying to put Nauzobillah words in Allah's mouth ??

Do you know more Quran and ahadith than all the Aima combined ???

It is an irony that some people among the Muslims have misconstrued this verse of the Qur'an so as to make it lawful for themselves to build mausoleums, monuments and mosques over the tombs of the righteous persons and saints. The Qur'an has, in fact, pointed out the deviation of the workers of iniquity who prevailed upon others and built a place of worship over the Cave of the Sleepers, who were indeed a Sign of Resurrection and of the life-after-death. But they abused this good opportunity and produced another means of practicing shirk.

Prove it right ..!!..explain this verse to me and we all will be happy !(bigsmile)

Here lets read the Quran in Arabic to see how you feel people with impunity !

​

Sahih International
And similarly, We caused them to be found that they [who found them] would know that the promise of Allah is truth and that of the Hour there is no doubt. [That was] when they disputed among themselves about their affair and [then] said, "Construct over them a structure. Their Lord is most knowing about them." Said those who prevailed in the matter, "We will surely take [for ourselves] over them a masjid."
Muhsin Khan
And thus We made their case known to the people, that they might know that the Promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour. (Remember) when they (the people of the city) disputed among themselves about their case, they said: "Construct a building over them, their Lord knows best about them," (then) those who won their point said (most probably the disbelievers): "We verily shall build a place of worship over them."
Pickthall
And in like manner We disclosed them (to the people of the city) that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that, as for the Hour, there is no doubt concerning it. When (the people of the city) disputed of their case among themselves, they said: Build over them a building; their Lord knoweth best concerning them. Those who won their point said: We verily shall build a place of worship over them.
Yusuf Ali
Thus did We make their case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour of Judgment. Behold, they dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said, "Construct a building over them": Their Lord knows best about them: those who prevailed over their affair said, "Let us surely build a place of worship over them."
Shakir
And thus did We make (men) to get knowledge of them that they might know that Allah's promise is true and that as for the hour there is no doubt about it. When they disputed among themselves about their affair and said: Erect an edifice over them-- their Lord best knows them. Those who prevailed in their affair said: We will certainly raise a masjid over them.
Dr. Ghali
And thus We made the (people of the city) discover them that they might know that the promise of Allah is true and that the Hour, there is no suspicion about it. As they were contending among themselves their Command, (The Command of Allah concerning Resurrection; or: their affair) (then) they said, "Build over them a structure; their Lord knows them best." (But) the ones who prevailed over their Command (Literally: overcame them in their Command; or: in their affair) said, "Indeed we will definitely build (Literally: take to ourselves) over them a mosque."


What are your thoughts now Mr. Najdi ??? (bigsmile).... You understand Urdu ...does the word "Masjid" up there in Arabic Make sense to you ??

You can quote as many ahadith as you like RELATING TO THE KUFFAR ...and they may apply to you but not the Muslims !...have fun !(bigsmile)

It is an irony that some people among the Muslims have misconstrued this verse of the Qur'an so as to make it lawful for themselves to build mausoleums, monuments and mosques over the tombs of the righteous persons and saints. The Qur'an has, in fact, pointed out the deviation of the workers of iniquity who prevailed upon others and built a place of worship over the Cave of the Sleepers, who were indeed a Sign of Resurrection and of the life-after-death. But they abused this good opportunity and produced another means of practicing shirk.

One fails to understand how anyone can deduce from this verse an argument for the legality of building mosques over the tombs of the righteous people, when the Holy Prophet has categorically prohibited this:

(1) "Allah has cursed those women who visit tombs and those people who build mosques over them and burn lights over them" (Ahmad, Tirmizi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah).

(2) "Beware that the people, who have passed before you, made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship. I forbid you to do that." (Muslim)

(3) "Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians, for they made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(4) "The behavior of those people was strange: if a righteous person from among them, died they would build a mosque over his grave and draw his pictures. They will be treated as worst criminals on the Day on Resurrection." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(5) Jundub reported: I heard from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) five days before his death and he said: I stand acquitted (بری الذمہ) before Allah that I took any one of you as friend, for Allah has taken me as His friend, as he took Ibrahim as His friend. Had I taken any one of my Ummah as a friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as a friend. Beware of those who preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that. (Sahih Muslim; Book #004 , Hadith #1083 )

Thus, it is clear from the above Sayings of the Holy Prophet that building of the places of worship over the tombs is utterly unlawful; the Qur'an has merely stated as a historical fact the sinful act of the Christian priests and the Roman rulers and has not sanctioned such a thing. Therefore no God-fearing person can turn this into an argument for building mosques over the tombs.

 

[mediator]

Are you trying to put Nauzobillah words in Allah's mouth ??

Sahih International
And similarly, We caused them to be found that they [who found them] would know that the promise of Allah is truth and that of the Hour there is no doubt. [That was] when they disputed among themselves about their affair and [then] said, "Construct over them a structure. Their Lord is most knowing about them." Said those who prevailed in the matter, "We will surely take [for ourselves] over them a masjid."
Muhsin Khan
And thus We made their case known to the people, that they might know that the Promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour. (Remember) when they (the people of the city) disputed among themselves about their case, they said: "Construct a building over them, their Lord knows best about them," (then) those who won their point said (most probably the disbelievers): "We verily shall build a place of worship over them."
Pickthall
And in like manner We disclosed them (to the people of the city) that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that, as for the Hour, there is no doubt concerning it. When (the people of the city) disputed of their case among themselves, they said: Build over them a building; their Lord knoweth best concerning them. Those who won their point said: We verily shall build a place of worship over them.
Yusuf Ali
Thus did We make their case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour of Judgment. Behold, they dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said, "Construct a building over them": Their Lord knows best about them: those who prevailed over their affair said, "Let us surely build a place of worship over them."
Shakir
And thus did We make (men) to get knowledge of them that they might know that Allah's promise is true and that as for the hour there is no doubt about it. When they disputed among themselves about their affair and said: Erect an edifice over them-- their Lord best knows them. Those who prevailed in their affair said: We will certainly raise a masjid over them.
Dr. Ghali
And thus We made the (people of the city) discover them that they might know that the promise of Allah is true and that the Hour, there is no suspicion about it. As they were contending among themselves their Command, (The Command of Allah concerning Resurrection; or: their affair) (then) they said, "Build over them a structure; their Lord knows them best." (But) the ones who prevailed over their Command (Literally: overcame them in their Command; or: in their affair) said, "Indeed we will definitely build (Literally: take to ourselves) over them a mosque."

You understand Urdu ...does the word "Masjid" up there in Arabic Make sense to you ??

There are many places in Quraan where different true stories are mentioned so that people can understand the message of Islam. The story mentioned in Surah-e-Al-Kahf is also one of them. In this story the conversation between some people is mentioned,here they were talking about building a mosque over the grave. It was not an order of Allah to build a tomb or mosque over the grave. It was just a communication between some people. We can not justify bulding Tombs over the graves based on this verse (18:21). Furthermore there are many authentic Hadeeths clarifying this issue:


(1) "Allah has cursed those women who visit tombs and those people who build mosques over them and burn lights over them" (Ahmad, Tirmizi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah).

(2) "Beware that the people, who have passed before you, made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship. I forbid you to do that." (Muslim)

(3) "Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians, for they made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(4) "The behavior of those people was strange: if a righteous person from among them, died they would build a mosque over his grave and draw his pictures. They will be treated as worst criminals on the Day on Resurrection." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(5) Jundub reported: I heard from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) five days before his death and he said: I stand acquitted (بری الذمہ) before Allah that I took any one of you as friend, for Allah has taken me as His friend, as he took Ibrahim as His friend. Had I taken any one of my Ummah as a friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as a friend. Beware of those who preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that. (Sahih Muslim; Book #004 , Hadith #1083 )

Do you know more Quran and ahadith than all the Aima combined ???



Prove it right ..!!..explain this verse to me and we all will be happy !

Lets us see what other commentators has to say on this topic:

see what Tabree said
.
وَقَدْ اخْتُلِفَ فِي قَائِلِي هَذِهِ الْمَقَالَة , أَهُمْ الرَّهْط الْمُسْلِمُونَ , أَمْ هُمْ الْكُفَّار
Tabree Quoted 2 opinions that they were Muslims and other is They were Kuffar.(They hide the commentary where he said they were Kuffar)


b) IMAM Ibn e Kathir mentioned sufficient reply
.
ابن جرير في القائلين ذلك قولين: [أحدهما] أنهم المسلمون منهم
[والثاني] أهل الشرك منهم، فالله أعلم، والظاهر أن الذين قالوا ذلك هم أصحاب الكلمة والنفوذ، ولكن هل هم محمودون أم لا؟ فيه نظر، لأن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال:
" لعن الله اليهود والنصارى اتخذوا قبور أنبيائهم وصالحيهم مساجد "
يحذر ما فعلوا،
Imam ibn e jareer quoted two sayings, first is this that this saying was from Muslims the other is that was saying from Ahlul Shirk ALLAH KNOWS BEST, Apparently it seems that was saying from Muslims
as for there saying is good or bad? so the hadith of Prophet says(ibn e kathir supported his stance with hadith and athar of OMAR RA)
(Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians who took the graves of their Prophets and righteous people as places of worship)

then he went on and saidوقد روينا عن أمير المؤمنين عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه:
.
It is narrated from Commander of Momineen Omar bin al khattab RadhiAllahANHO
أنه لما وجد قبر دانيال في زمانه بالعراق، أمر أن يخفى عن الناس، وأن تدفن تلك الرقعة التي وجدوها عنده، فيها شيء من الملاحم وغيرها.
when he found the grave of Danyal (Daniel) in Iraq during his period of rule, he gave orders that news of this grave should be withheld from the people, and that the inscription containing mention of battles etc.,


c) Ibn e Katheer himself said
Ibne Katheer said under the Biography of Sayyiyadah Nafeesah in Al Bidaya wal Nihaya
والذي ينبغي أن يعتقد فيها ما يليق بمثلها من النساء الصالحات، وأصل عبادة الأصنام من المغالاة في القبور وأصحابها، وقد أمر النبي بتسويه القبور وطمسها، والمغالاة في البشر حرام
The AITEQAAD(creed) of people regarding her is not applicable fpr righteous women like her, The Origon of Idol worship is Ghuloo for graves and owners(the person who is in the grave), That why Prophet peace be upon him ordered to level and Obliterating the graves, Making Ghuloo for any Man is Haram
.
http://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/البداية_والنهاية/الجزء_العاشر/وفاة_السيدة_نفيسة


والذي ينبغي أن يعتقد فيها ما يليق بمثلها من النساء الصالحات، وأصل عبادة الأصنام من المغالاة في القبور وأصحابها، وقد أمر النبي بتسويه القبور وطمسها، والمغالاة في البشر حرام
The AITEQAAD(creed) of people regarding her is not applicable for righteous women like her, The Origon of Idol worship is veneration for graves and people in the graves, Thats why Prophet peace be upon him ordered to level and Obliterating the graves, Veneration for any Man is Haram .

[Al Bidaya wal Nihayah Vol: 10 page 287 under the Biography of Sayyiyadah Nafeesah]

d) Mahmud Al-Alusi hanafi said :
واستدل بالآية على جواز البناء على قبور الصلحاء واتخاذ مسجد عليها وجواز الصلاة في ذلك. وممن ذكر ذلك الشهاب الخفاجي في حواشيه على البيضاوي وهو قول باطل عاطل فاسد كاسد، فقد روى أحمد وأبو داود والترمذي والنسائي وابن ماجه عن ابن عباس قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: " لعن الله تعالى زائرات القبور والمتخذين عليها المساجد والسرج " ومسلم " ألا وإن من كان قبلكم كانوا يتخذون قبور أنبيائهم مساجد فإني أنهاكم عن ذلك " وأحمد عن أسامة وهو والشيخان والنسائي عن عائشة، ومسلم عن أبـي هريرة: " لعن الله تعالى اليهود والنصارى اتخذوا قبور أنبيائهم مساجد " وأحمد والشيخان والنسائي " إن أولئك إذا كان فيهم الرجل الصالح فمات بنوا على قبره مسجداً وصوروا فيه تلك الصور أولئك شرار الخلق يوم القيامة "
“And people have taken this as a proof for permitting building on graves of saints and turning them into mosques and praying in them Shahab Khafaji mentioned this in "Hashiyah Beydawi" This saying is pure falsehood, corruption and evil. Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasai, ibn Majah narrated from ibn Abbas that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “May Allah curse the women visiting graves, those who make graves upon them and put lamps upon it”(Ruh al-Mani Tafsir of Surah al-Kahaf verse 21)
Source: http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa...No=21&tDisplay=yes&Page=7&Size=1&LanguageId=1
Comment:so this is clear deception of these people quoting half of the commentaries. and lastly We follow Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him not previous Prophets so this is not their evidance even if this is saying of MUSLIMS.

Read more: http://www.systemoflife.com/article...building-structures-over-graves#ixzz2HHNcUpUR

 

[modern.fakir]

The story mentioned in Surah-e-Al-Kahf is also one of them. In this story the conversation between some people is mentioned,here they were talking about building a mosque over the grave. It was not an order of Allah to build a tomb or mosque over the grave. It was just a communication between some people. We can not justify bulding Tombs over the graves based on this verse (18:21)

OK so now you have falsified the Quran [hilar][hilar] ??? Truly, you are the worse kind of shameless person I have seen thus far !.

So you mean to say that Nauzobillah Allah Swt doesnt know what he is talking about here BUT YOU DO :lol: ? ..Brother please repeat "Laila Ill Allah Muhammadur RAsoolALLAH" for renewing your IMAN....YOU TRULY NEED A BRAIN SCAN !!

The whole Quran is the order of Allah swt except this verse because a dumbass like you ??...Who are you ?? ...A nobody !! Go follow your own religion and dont talk about Islam .Can you show me a Tafsir which says that

"It was not an order of Allah to build a tomb or mosque over the grave "

I have shown you 5 Tafseers each one of them saying the same thing ??

All the hadith you mentioned are for the KUFFAR ! ..They clearly mention Jews and Christians !! ...Are you out of your mind ??

And Hadith for the Muslims has clarified this too ...How will you justify these ahadith

If going to the grave is not allowed for eisal-e-thwab then why did my AKKA pbuh go there ?

It is in Hadith - Narrated Al-Bara (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ): The Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) went towards Al-Baqi (the Graveyard at Medina) on the day of Id-ul-Adha and offered a two-Rakat prayer (of 'Id-ul-Adha).... (part of the Hadith).(Bukhari - Book #15, Hadith #93).

It is in Hadith - Narrated Ibn Abbas (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ). A person died and Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) used to visit him. He died at night and (the people) buried him at night. In the morning they informed the Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم)(about his death). He said, "What prevented you from informing me?" They replied, "It was night and it was a dark night and so we disliked to trouble you." The Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) went to his Grave and offered the (funeral) prayer. (Bukhari Book #23, Hadith #339)


It is in Hadith - Narrated Anas bin Malik (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ): We were (in the funeral procession) of one of the daughters of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) and he (Prophet - صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) was sitting by the side of the Grave... (part of the Hadith) (Bukhari - Book #23, Hadith #374).


It is in Hadith - Ummul Momineen Aisha (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہا) narrates that: "When Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) used to stay with her, in the last part of the night he used to go to the graveyard of Madinah (Muslim, Mishkat page 154

(1) "Allah has cursed those women who visit tombs and those people who build mosques over them and burn lights over them" (Ahmad, Tirmizi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah).

(2) "Beware that the people, who have passed before you, made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship. I forbid you to do that." (Muslim)

(3) "Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians, for they made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(4) "The behavior of those people was strange: if a righteous person from among them, died they would build a mosque over his grave and draw his pictures. They will be treated as worst criminals on the Day on Resurrection." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(5) Jundub reported: I heard from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) five days before his death and he said: I stand acquitted (بری الذمہ) before Allah that I took any one of you as friend, for Allah has taken me as His friend, as he took Ibrahim as His friend. Had I taken any one of my Ummah as a friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as a friend. Beware of those who preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that. (Sahih Muslim; Book#004 , Hadith #1083 )

Man you quote "Half Hadith's with such impunity that its actually disgusting" ..All of these ahadith are for the KUFFARS !

- Muslims dont burn lights on anyone graves !
- Muslims dont make pictures either !..it is reminiscent of the Christians and Jews to do that.
- Hadith clearly says "Jews and Christians".

But you have gone to the extent of NEGATING the QURAN and have no morals so quoting HALF HADITH's Shamelessly is nothing for you so you will also negate these ahadith as Allama Iqbal Ra said :

Khud ko badaltay nahin Quran ko badaldaytay hain !

OK so if women are not allowed then what about these ahadith :

It is in Hadith - Anas (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) related that the Prophet( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ) saw a woman crying at the grave and said: " Fear Allah and be patient." (Sahih Bukhari)It is in Hadith - It is narrated by Abdullah Bin Abi Malkia(رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) : " Once Ummul Momineen Aisha (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہا) returned after visiting the graveyard. I asked "O'Mother of Believers, 'Where have you been?' She said: 'I went to visit the grave of my brother Abd Ar-Rahman (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ).' I asked her: ' Didn't the Messenger of Allah ( صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم ) prohibit visiting graves?' She said: 'Yes, he did forbid visiting graves during the early days but later on he ordered us to visit them.' " (Sunan Ibn Majah).

Here Bibi Aisha ra ...Umm ul Momineen CLEARLY stating the Prophet pbuh forbade earlier because the Graves were of KUFFAR, but then when the Muslims had their own graveyard he allowed it !

But you know more Islam than Naoozobillah Allah swt ??....So naturally this hadith is nothing right ?

see what Tabree said
.
وَقَدْ اخْتُلِفَ فِي قَائِلِي هَذِهِ الْمَقَالَة , أَهُمْ الرَّهْط الْمُسْلِمُونَ , أَمْ هُمْ الْكُفَّار
Tabree Quoted 2 opinions that they were Muslims and other is They were Kuffar.(They hide the commentary where he said they were Kuffar)

Ok who is Tabree ?....and where is the reference for this you liar ?? ...Your pulling lies on scholars now as well ?
They hid the commentary or are you hiding this commentary now ? :lol:

ابن جرير في القائلين ذلك قولين: [أحدهما] أنهم المسلمون منهم
[والثاني] أهل الشرك منهم، فالله أعلم، والظاهر أن الذين قالوا ذلك هم أصحاب الكلمة والنفوذ، ولكن هل هم محمودون أم لا؟ فيه نظر، لأن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال:
" لعن الله اليهود والنصارى اتخذوا قبور أنبيائهم وصالحيهم مساجد "
يحذر ما فعلوا،
Imam ibn e jareer quoted two sayings, first is this that this saying was from Muslims the other is that was saying from Ahlul Shirk ALLAH KNOWS BEST, Apparently it seems that was saying from Muslims
as for there saying is good or bad? so the hadith of Prophet says(ibn e kathir supported his stance with hadith and athar of OMAR RA)
(Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians who took the graves of their Prophets and righteous people as places of worship)

then he went on and saidوقد روينا عن أمير المؤمنين عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه:
.
It is narrated from Commander of Momineen Omar bin al khattab RadhiAllahANHO
أنه لما وجد قبر دانيال في زمانه بالعراق، أمر أن يخفى عن الناس، وأن تدفن تلك الرقعة التي وجدوها عنده، فيها شيء من الملاحم وغيرها.
when he found the grave of Danyal (Daniel) in Iraq during his period of rule, he gave orders that news of this grave should be withheld from the people, and that the inscription containing mention of battles etc.,

Now, all this rubbish you posted up there is NOTHING BUT LIES (bigsmile). Answer these questions for me :

- In which matter did Ibn Kathir support Ibn Jarir in what matter ?

- Where is the reference and what are you trying to state ??...Just merely copy and pasting rubbish is only making you look like a complete fool ...which you are !!

- If i read the half rubbish you posted here then even THAT is cursing the "Jews and christians" ...what relation does this have to the muslims ??....dude are you insane ??



Can you explain what does this rubbish mean ??

The AITEQAAD(creed) of people regarding her is not applicable for righteous women like her,

So whoever this so called "Scholar" is, he is doubting the creed of a Righteous Women ?? .. IS this the way of the SALAF-us-saliheen ?? ....Judging peoples creeds based on Najdi rubbish which even they dont understand ?? [hilar][hilar]

What about this quoting from "Al Bidaya wal Nihaya" By Ibn Kathir himself ?

t is in Hadith -"It is related from Malik al-Dar (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) , `Umar's (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) treasurer, that the people suffered a drought during the successorship of `Umar,(رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet and said: "O Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم), ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished," after which the Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم)appeared to him in a dream and told him: "Go to `Umar (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: You must be clever (cautious), you must be clever (cautious)!" The man went and told `Umar(رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ). The latter said: "O my Lord, I spare no effort except in what escapes my power!"

Here these are the references :

The above Hadith has been mentioned by Imam Bukhari in his book Taarikh al-Kabir - Biography of Malik al-dar.

It is also is narrated by Bayhaqi.

Ibn Taymiyyah wrote this Hadith in Sirat al Mustaqim - page 373.

Ibn Kathir cites it in al-Bidaya wa al-nihaya and says: isnaduhu sahih.

Ibn Abi Shayba cites it in his Musannaf with a sound (sahih) chain as confirmed byIbn Hajar who says: rawa Ibn Abi Shayba bi isnadin sahih and cites the hadith in Fath al-Bari. He identifies Malik al-Dar as `Umar's (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) treasurer (khazin `umar) and says that the man who visited and saw the Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) in his dream is identified as the Companion Bilal ibn al-Harith (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ), and he counts this Hadith among the reasons for Bukhari's naming of the chapter "The people's request to their leader for rain if they suffer drought."

The narrators of the above Hadith are: (1) Abu Mu‘awiya, (2)Imam A‘mash, (3) Abu Salih Abd al Rahman bin Sa’eed, (4)Malik bin Ayyad al-Dar. All of them are considered as authentic and famous narrators of Ahadith whose narrations were taken by Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawood, and others.
So all these people DONT KNOW ISLAM ?? including IBN Kathir and YOU KNOW MORE ISLAM than them all ...SubhanALLAH !! [hilar][hilar]

Comment:so this is clear deception of these people quoting half of the commentaries. and lastly We follow Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him not previous Prophets so this is not their evidance even if this is saying of MUSLIMS.

And who was the Quran revealed on ?? The verse mentioned was revealed to my AKKA pbuh and he narrated it as Allah swt has commanded .....Why dont you say out loud that in YOUR RELIGION you will NOT FOLLOW verses of the Quran which you dont want to !...Because in ISLAM we follow every commandment of Allah swt !

Answer those questions above ...which you cant because your standing on lies and hence your arguments can never be proven !!

There are many places in Quraan where different true stories are mentioned so that people can understand the message of Islam. The story mentioned in Surah-e-Al-Kahf is also one of them. In this story the conversation between some people is mentioned,here they were talking about building a mosque over the grave. It was not an order of Allah to build a tomb or mosque over the grave. It was just a communication between some people. We can not justify bulding Tombs over the graves based on this verse (18:21). Furthermore there are many authentic Hadeeths clarifying this issue:


(1) "Allah has cursed those women who visit tombs and those people who build mosques over them and burn lights over them" (Ahmad, Tirmizi, Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah).

(2) "Beware that the people, who have passed before you, made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship. I forbid you to do that." (Muslim)

(3) "Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians, for they made the tombs of their Prophets the places of their worship." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(4) "The behavior of those people was strange: if a righteous person from among them, died they would build a mosque over his grave and draw his pictures. They will be treated as worst criminals on the Day on Resurrection." (Ahmad, Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i).

(5) Jundub reported: I heard from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) five days before his death and he said: I stand acquitted (بری الذمہ) before Allah that I took any one of you as friend, for Allah has taken me as His friend, as he took Ibrahim as His friend. Had I taken any one of my Ummah as a friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as a friend. Beware of those who preceded you and used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as places of worship, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that. (Sahih Muslim; Book #004 , Hadith #1083 )




Lets us see what other commentators has to say on this topic:

see what Tabree said
.
وَقَدْ اخْتُلِفَ فِي قَائِلِي هَذِهِ الْمَقَالَة , أَهُمْ الرَّهْط الْمُسْلِمُونَ , أَمْ هُمْ الْكُفَّار
Tabree Quoted 2 opinions that they were Muslims and other is They were Kuffar.(They hide the commentary where he said they were Kuffar)


b) IMAM Ibn e Kathir mentioned sufficient reply
.
ابن جرير في القائلين ذلك قولين: [أحدهما] أنهم المسلمون منهم
[والثاني] أهل الشرك منهم، فالله أعلم، والظاهر أن الذين قالوا ذلك هم أصحاب الكلمة والنفوذ، ولكن هل هم محمودون أم لا؟ فيه نظر، لأن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال:
" لعن الله اليهود والنصارى اتخذوا قبور أنبيائهم وصالحيهم مساجد "
يحذر ما فعلوا،
Imam ibn e jareer quoted two sayings, first is this that this saying was from Muslims the other is that was saying from Ahlul Shirk ALLAH KNOWS BEST, Apparently it seems that was saying from Muslims
as for there saying is good or bad? so the hadith of Prophet says(ibn e kathir supported his stance with hadith and athar of OMAR RA)
(Allah has cursed the Jews and the Christians who took the graves of their Prophets and righteous people as places of worship)

then he went on and saidوقد روينا عن أمير المؤمنين عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه:
.
It is narrated from Commander of Momineen Omar bin al khattab RadhiAllahANHO
أنه لما وجد قبر دانيال في زمانه بالعراق، أمر أن يخفى عن الناس، وأن تدفن تلك الرقعة التي وجدوها عنده، فيها شيء من الملاحم وغيرها.
when he found the grave of Danyal (Daniel) in Iraq during his period of rule, he gave orders that news of this grave should be withheld from the people, and that the inscription containing mention of battles etc.,


c) Ibn e Katheer himself said
Ibne Katheer said under the Biography of Sayyiyadah Nafeesah in Al Bidaya wal Nihaya
والذي ينبغي أن يعتقد فيها ما يليق بمثلها من النساء الصالحات، وأصل عبادة الأصنام من المغالاة في القبور وأصحابها، وقد أمر النبي بتسويه القبور وطمسها، والمغالاة في البشر حرام
The AITEQAAD(creed) of people regarding her is not applicable fpr righteous women like her, The Origon of Idol worship is Ghuloo for graves and owners(the person who is in the grave), That why Prophet peace be upon him ordered to level and Obliterating the graves, Making Ghuloo for any Man is Haram
.
http://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A9_%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D9%87%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%A9/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%B2%D8%A1_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%B4%D8%B1/%D9%88%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%AF%D8%A9_%D9%86%D9%81%D9%8A%D8%B3%D8%A9


والذي ينبغي أن يعتقد فيها ما يليق بمثلها من النساء الصالحات، وأصل عبادة الأصنام من المغالاة في القبور وأصحابها، وقد أمر النبي بتسويه القبور وطمسها، والمغالاة في البشر حرام
The AITEQAAD(creed) of people regarding her is not applicable for righteous women like her, The Origon of Idol worship is veneration for graves and people in the graves, Thats why Prophet peace be upon him ordered to level and Obliterating the graves, Veneration for any Man is Haram .

[Al Bidaya wal Nihayah Vol: 10 page 287 under the Biography of Sayyiyadah Nafeesah]

d) Mahmud Al-Alusi hanafi said :
واستدل بالآية على جواز البناء على قبور الصلحاء واتخاذ مسجد عليها وجواز الصلاة في ذلك. وممن ذكر ذلك الشهاب الخفاجي في حواشيه على البيضاوي وهو قول باطل عاطل فاسد كاسد، فقد روى أحمد وأبو داود والترمذي والنسائي وابن ماجه عن ابن عباس قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: " لعن الله تعالى زائرات القبور والمتخذين عليها المساجد والسرج " ومسلم " ألا وإن من كان قبلكم كانوا يتخذون قبور أنبيائهم مساجد فإني أنهاكم عن ذلك " وأحمد عن أسامة وهو والشيخان والنسائي عن عائشة، ومسلم عن أبـي هريرة: " لعن الله تعالى اليهود والنصارى اتخذوا قبور أنبيائهم مساجد " وأحمد والشيخان والنسائي " إن أولئك إذا كان فيهم الرجل الصالح فمات بنوا على قبره مسجداً وصوروا فيه تلك الصور أولئك شرار الخلق يوم القيامة "
“And people have taken this as a proof for permitting building on graves of saints and turning them into mosques and praying in them Shahab Khafaji mentioned this in "Hashiyah Beydawi" This saying is pure falsehood, corruption and evil. Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasai, ibn Majah narrated from ibn Abbas that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “May Allah curse the women visiting graves, those who make graves upon them and put lamps upon it”(Ruh al-Mani Tafsir of Surah al-Kahaf verse 21)
Source: http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa...No=21&tDisplay=yes&Page=7&Size=1&LanguageId=1
Comment:so this is clear deception of these people quoting half of the commentaries. and lastly We follow Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him not previous Prophets so this is not their evidance even if this is saying of MUSLIMS.

Read more: http://www.systemoflife.com/article...building-structures-over-graves#ixzz2HHNcUpUR

 

[bilal5tani]

Iyyaka nabudu wa iyyaka nastaeen,
Aey ALLAH hum sirf tery hi ibadat krtay hain or sirf tujh hi say madad mangtay hain.
1 sahi hadees mai hai, al dua maghzul ibadah ( yani dua ibadat ka maghaz hai) or ibadat ALLAH k siwa kisi 2sray ki jaez nahi
balkay shirk hai. Quran kareem mai ALLAH nay farmaya Main tumhari shahrag say bhi ziada qareeb hun. Nabi kareem SAW nay
kabhi kisi ka waseela ALLAH k samnay paish nahi kia, agar kisi k paas Quran or hadees k mutabiq koi reference mojood ho toa
us say request hai k wo zaroor share karay.
ALLAH TALA ki Asmaey husna 99 names k zarieye say insan dua krskta hai, laikin kisi k wasilay say nahi.

NOTE: jisko bhi reference dayna ho wo (Quran o Hadees) k mutabiq reference day, otherwise will be rejected. :jazak:

Iyyaka nabudu wa iyyaka nastaeen,
Aey ALLAH hum sirf tery hi ibadat krtay hain or sirf tujh hi say madad mangtay hain.
1 sahi hadees mai hai, al dua maghzul ibadah ( yani dua ibadat ka maghaz hai) or ibadat ALLAH k siwa kisi 2sray ki jaez nahi
balkay shirk hai. Quran kareem mai ALLAH nay farmaya Main tumhari shahrag say bhi ziada qareeb hun. Nabi kareem SAW nay
kabhi kisi ka waseela ALLAH k samnay paish nahi kia, agar kisi k paas Quran or hadees k mutabiq koi reference mojood ho toa
us say request hai k wo zaroor share karay.
ALLAH TALA ki Asmaey husna 99 names k zarieye say insan dua krskta hai, laikin kisi k wasilay say nahi.

NOTE: jisko bhi reference dayna ho wo (Quran o Hadees) k mutabiq reference day, otherwise will be rejected. :jazak:

1st Reference from Quran 4:64 Vers
2nd Reference also from Quran 5:35 Vers.
Read Carefully
Aapko smjh ajaey ga k waseela aur tawasul Haram nhe hai.