What if China was not Pakistan ally ?

[desan]

You can google the studies on this. Atleast 69% of all divorces in West are initiated by women.

Surprising, but at the same time makes sense due to PERIODIC mood swings and hence another argument in favor of making it more difficult for them to get out of the marriage.

Some new data about divorce and non-marital breakups contains an unexpected finding, and I think it underscores the fact that we're in the midst of an ongoing evolution in what people want and seek in their romantic relationships. The study, based on a survey of over 2000 heterosexual couples, found that women initiated nearly 70 percent of all divorces. Yet there was no significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by women and men in non-marriage relationships.

Women Initiate Divorce Much More Than Men, Here's Why

Wives report more dissatisfaction with their marriages than their husbands.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[desan]

You are right, there is a certain aspect of control and brainwashing in every society and I rebel against the western society too. Everything you see on Hollywood has societal programing behind it. I do not believe in the family values most civilizations have created.

Agriculture and family has been around for less than 15,000 years. Humans have been huntergetherers for mover 200,000 years. Sleeping 8 hours straight in a day, having 3 meals in a day, having a wife, consuming a diet dominated by grain. All these things are not natural to humans, they are artificial constructs since the agricultural revolution in last 15,000 years.

Yes we can force ourselves to stay humble and monogomous against our nature due to brainwashing or pressure from Western or Eastern societies, as women get more and more freedom, these values are also going to diminish even more. People may not like what I say but I am just calling a spade a spade.

When I was growing up in Pakistan, we were told to get an education, get a job, get married to a good girl, have kids, retire and die. But instead I got a degree, wiped my butt with it, started a business made not much, but made more money than a job and with extra freedom, dated many different women that I was attracted to at the same time and have no kids to worry about. This world can be your heaven or your hell depending on how you want it to be.

There are a lot of things in religious texts that may not be PC from current standards of how we judge things, but they do have a lot of wisdom!!!

 

[Vitamin_C]

That is one of the biggest reasons for an increase in divorce rate, but West promotes this as a panacea of the ills of 3rd world countries and we buy this argument with hook line and sinker!!!

Ill step aside from the West here and take a neutral stance. No govt has a right whether Islamic or Western to force people to start and live in families with or without the person they want to be with.

The things you are saying: taking away divorce rights of women so they stay with their man against their wishes just to continue their family cannot be enforced in a free society. Maybe in China, North Korea and Islamic countries.

We also have to understand the context of where Islamic societies came from. They were basically slave societies, but that I do not just mean people that you bought and sold with money, it was also a slavery mentality where men had the top position and had various degrees of ownership of everthing under them on a sliding scale all the way to the slave that they legally bought.

Wives and daughters were also on this scale and even today in Saudi Arabia they are regarded as property of their husband/father and in some cases brother and they cant go anywhere without a male. So on one side Islam throws alot of lavish praise on mothers, daughters and sisters and gives them respect as in most other societies but then on paper they get fewer rights compared to men with less freedoms.

 

[desan]

Ill step aside from the West here and take a neutral stance. No govt has a right whether Islamic or Western to force people to start and live in families with or without the person they want to be with.

The things you are saying: taking away divorce rights of women so they stay with their man against their wishes just to continue their family cannot be enforced in a free society. Maybe in China, North Korea and Islamic countries.

We also have to understand the context of where Islamic societies came from. They were basically slave societies, but that I do not just mean people that you bought and sold with money, it was also a slavery mentality where men had the top position and had various degrees of ownership of everthing under them on a sliding scale all the way to the slave that they legally bought.

Wives and daughters were also on this scale and even today in Saudi Arabia they are regarded as property of their husband/father and in some cases brother and they cant go anywhere without a male.

Do not try to step back from the Western Values as those are the same arguments being presented here.

No one is taking away the rights from Women. Just making a bit difficult for the highly Emotional Souls.

Also avoid giving the example of SA, as it is not an Islamic Country but a fiefdom of highly corrupt and morally bankrupt clan.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Surprising, but at the same time makes sense due to PERIODIC mood swings and hence another argument in favor of making it more difficult for them to get out of the marriage.

Some new data about divorce and non-marital breakups contains an unexpected finding, and I think it underscores the fact that we're in the midst of an ongoing evolution in what people want and seek in their romantic relationships. The study, based on a survey of over 2000 heterosexual couples, found that women initiated nearly 70 percent of all divorces. Yet there was no significant difference between the percentage of breakups initiated by women and men in non-marriage relationships.

Women Initiate Divorce Much More Than Men, Here's Why

Wives report more dissatisfaction with their marriages than their husbands.

www.psychologytoday.com

I think the numbers are similar even in marriage situations. Divorce is very complited in West due to the laws here. The government still wants to keep families together because its good for the economies, but once people get more freedoms this percentage will go up even more.

Biologically there is no reason for the father to stay with mother for more than 3 years until the child is fully developed, this is why most relationships seem to fizzle out slowly after the honeymoon period is over.

If I can remember correctly there was an interesting study on the Amish people as their diveroce rates are amongst the lowest in the world. It concludes that if you marry someone that you grew up with and know very well, you are less likely to get divorced. But in our city societies people move alot and when people get married they hardly know each other which also contributes to higher divorce rates.

 

[Vitamin_C]

No one is taking away the rights from Women. Just making a bit difficult for the highly Emotional Souls.

Who gives men the right to make things more difficult for women? They have a right to make decisions as men do even if it is emotional decisions, thats their biology, we have to work around it not against it. They are 50% of the population and in a democracy we cannot make laws without taking their consent.

 

[desan]

I think the numbers are similar even in marriage situations. Divorce is very complited in West due to the laws here. The government still wants to keep families together because its good for the economies, but once people get more freedoms this percentage will go up even more.

Biologically there is no reason for the father to stay with mother for more than 3 years until the child is fully developed, this is why most relationships seem to fizzle out slowly after the honeymoon period is over.

If I can remember correctly there was an interesting study on the Amish people as their diveroce rates are amongst the lowest in the world. It concludes that if you marry someone that you grew up with and know very well, you are less likely to get divorced. But in our city societies people move alot and when people get married they hardly know each other which also contributes to higher divorce rates.

Must be kidding!!!

3 y/o child raised by a single parent is highly detrimental to that child's emotional well being.

To top it off, most of the financial burden falls upon the mother.
A lot of psychologically and emotionally disturbed kids are raised in a single parent family.

Of course, one can find those kids in a 2-parent household as well but not as commonly.

 

[desan]

Who gives men the right to make things more difficult for women? They have a right to make decisions as men do even if it is emotional decisions, thats their biology, we have to work around it not against it. They are 50% of the population and in a democracy we cannot make laws without taking their consent.

Life and nature is not fair, especially if we look around the natural world in evolutionary terms.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Must be kidding!!!

3 y/o child raised by a single parent is highly detrimental to that child's emotional well being.

To top it off, most of the financial burden falls upon the mother.
A lot of psychologically and emotionally disturbed kids are raised in a single parent family.

Of course, one can find those kids in a 2-parent household as well but not as commonly.

In a modern society you are right.

But human history and history of human ancestors is over 2,000,000 years. The earliest homo sapiens date 200,000-300,000 years back.

99% of our time we lived as hunter gatherers, there are still some left in the jungles of Brazil and some tribes in Africa and Papua New Gineau.

In those societies there is no concept of father. Sex is free and women may have several partners so you can never know who is the actual father. People lived in tribes and when a child is born he/she is the child of the tribe of many fathers. These are the conditions under which our biology, bodies and psychology evolve and they havent changed much since we left the caves and the bushes.

Promiscuity, and horniness maybe natures way to make humans procreate with many different partners to increase genetic diversity to create more healthier and stronger offsprings. From an evolutionary and biological perspective there is no reason two people to stay together for longer, unless they make it a purpose to do so.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Life and nature is not fair, especially if we look around the natural world in evolutionary terms.

There is a difference between humans and wild animals. Atleast most of the time in the last 50 years.

 

[desan]

There is a difference between humans and wild animals. Atleast most of the time in the last 50 years.

50 years is a fraction of a femtosecond in evolutionary terms!!!

There is not much difference between human and animals.

Only difference is that we have taken a slightly different evolutionary trajectory, but we still carry similar instincts, behaviors, wants and desires.

 

[Vitamin_C]

50 years is a fraction of a femtosecond in evolutionary terms!!!

There is not much difference between human and animals.

Only difference is that we have taken a slightly different evolutionary trajectory, but we still carry similar instincts, behaviors, wants and desires.

The short answer is Yes. Our bodies and psychology is not built for the life we are trying to force it in. Our ancestors ate wild animals and vegetables, thats why farmed animals are harmful for our health as we grow older.

You can make that 15,000 years instead of 50 years because thats when the ice age ended and we started settling down in bigger groups than ever before. (Hunter gatherer tribes were rarely bigger than 40 individuals - Very low options for sexual partners which is probably where jealousy evolved)

But when we settled down in villages of more than 100 individuals few problems arose. Now you need labour to work on the lands therefore you need to know who your son/daughter is. Problem of jealousy as before women could be promiscious now there is need for family so you dont slit each others throats over women.

Humans werent used to live in such large groups so a need for rules arose. And to enforce rules you need authority (which did not exist in hunter gatherer societies because they were rankless societies meaning ever member of the tribe was an equal member even if he is old or disabled, there were no kings or pawns). This authority was invented on the base of divinity and this is where the first religions started. All the Pharoahs, priest kings and the Queen of England got power through divinity claims.

All the fruits and vegatables you eat today did not exist more than 10,000 years ago, we bred them over thousands of years through artificial selection. Rice was originated on the Yangtze River, Wheat in the Mediteranian, Potatoes, Corn and Maize in the Americas.

 

[desan]

The short answer is Yes. Our bodies and psychology is not built for the life we are trying to force it in. Our ancestors ate wild animals and vegetables, thats why farmed animals are harmful for our health as we grow older.

You can make that 15,000 years instead of 50 years because thats when the ice age ended and we started settling down in bigger groups than ever before. (Hunter gatherer tribes were rarely bigger than 40 individuals - Very low options for sexual partners which is probably where jealousy evolved)

But when we settled down in villages of more than 100 individuals few problems arose. Now you need labour to work on the lands therefore you need to know who your son/daughter is. Problem of jealousy as before women could be promiscious now there is need for family so you dont slit each others throats over women.

Humans werent used to live in such large groups so a need for rules arose. And to enforce rules you need authority (which did not exist in hunter gatherer societies because they were rankless societies meaning ever member of the tribe was an equal member even if he is old or disabled, there were no kings or pawns). This authority was based on divinity and this is where the first religions started. All the Pharoahs, priest kings and the Queen of England got power through divinity claims.

All the fruits and vegatables you eat today did not exist more than 10,000 years ago, we bred them over thousands of years through artificial selection. Rice was originated on the Yangtze River, Wheat in the Mediteranian, Potatoes, Corn and Maize in the Americas.

Thanks for this lesson on artificial evolution!!!

Lets create a new modern human being through the same process of artificial engineering.

Even better, use CRISPER technology to tinker with human behavior and psychology by using artificial intelligence.

However, so far these techniques have not been utilized in humans.

 

[Vitamin_C]

50 years is a fraction of a femtosecond in evolutionary terms!!!

There is not much difference between human and animals.

Only difference is that we have taken a slightly different evolutionary trajectory, but we still carry similar instincts, behaviors, wants and desires.

The main difference is the human brain, we have the prefrontal cortex which other mammals do not have at this extent. We can reason with each other and plan for the future, You will never see your dog save his dog food for the rainy day.

People who have had an accident and lost that part of their brain seem to behave like animals like you said. The ability to delay immediate gratification for future benefit was what set us apart.

 

[desan]

The main difference is the human brain, we have the prefrontal cortex which other mammals do not have at this extent. We can reason with each other and plan for the future, You will never see your dog save his dog food for the rainy day.

People who have had an accident and lost that part of their brain seem to behave like animals like you said. The ability to delay immediate gratification for future benefit was what set us apart.

Prefrontal cortex works great for planning, but it is the primitive brain that results in emotions, jealousy, impulsivity and primordial need for food, sex and power...

 

[Vitamin_C]

Thanks for this lesson on artificial evolution!!!

Lets create a new modern human being through the same process of artificial engineering.

Even better, use CRISPER technology to tinker with human behavior and psychology by using artificial intelligence.

However, so far these techniques have not been utilized in humans.

Yeah man. You can ask me if you have any questions sexual and artificial selection, I spend a lot of time on these topics and took courses on it too because I find it very interesting to learn about our ancestors and where our behaviour comes from.

Couples already do DNA testing before having kids to make sure that their offspring is not at risk of genetic diseases. In future it will be considered very irresponsible of parents to have children without some form of gene editing to remove diseases and genetic disorders. There will also be options for cosmetic editing for eye and hair colour.

Gene editing will especially be important for fighting endogenous retroviruses such as HIV. These viruses are hard to fight because they manifest themselves in our DNA.

Fun-fact: Humans have thousands of dead endogenous retroviruses in their genome. Gorillas and Chimps have the same viruses but cats and dogs have fewer of them. The further we are on the evolutionary family tree, the less genome viruses we share in common. These ancient viruses don’t have an effect on us anymore but we can still see them.

The size of our brains are limited by the width of the bi-pedal hips of our mothers since the last 70,000 years. Maybe with C-Sections we can enter the next stage in our evolution and grow bigger brains than we have now and answer some of the questions that science is not able to answer today.

 

[Mughal1]

I don’t see a reason for them to bother with this badly written book full of violence by desert dwellers 1400 years ago. 20% of which we cannot decide even on which language it is written in let alone understand it.

Western societies are content enough with their society which also gives them less reason to bother. Problem only exists in countries that use Quran as their constitution and I wonder why.

Dear vitamin c, it is regretful that I need to tell you that you are utterly incompetent by reason of your this very statement. Why? Because you are delivering your verdicts on a book the contents of which you are not able to grasp. We already had a lot of discussion about the contents of this book. This is why I suggested you revisit those discussions.

One cannot argue with a person who is not competent ie not sufficiently knowledgeable about things. You have no idea about words, their meanings and the mechanism involved in their coming about. This is your main lack about understanding of human language. So please go and study a bit so that you come to know what you are talking about.

The other problem with you is, you have not studied arabic language at all let alone the language the way it is used in the quran. In a way like mullaans it is not your fault. You are educated in the main stream education system just like mullaans are educated in madrassas knowing nothing else other than what you have learned. Which means you are as indoctrinated as mullaans.

Since you may know already how madrassa education system works and why people become indoctrinated that way, here is how secular education system works and how people become indoctrinated that way.

Like madrassa education system In secular system of education also there is no moral base at all to go by. If you do not have moral base to start with and then you are asked to be creative in writing. What you are going to do? You are going to learn how to make up stories which we call fictional writing. Once we start our lives this way ie learning how to make up stories then what we are teaching kids is how good they can get in telling lies.

This is how people become used to living with lies because they have no moral base and all they know is how to lie effectively to make fool of each other as and when the need arises for them. This is how we end up with leaders who lie to their followers. The more effective liar you are the bigger leader you are. Why? Because you have only learned how to get away with lies. When people have no solid way to distinguish between truth and falsehood or right and wrong then each and every person ends up with one's own idea of truth and falsehood or right and wrong.

Your gene argument is useless because genes don't generate ideas in minds of people. It is the mind that generates ideas. Genes simply build brains not the ideas those brains are going to come up with. Human brain is the most complex machine. It is capable of judging things but needs a solid standard or criterion to judge things by. That standard cannot come from humanity because human brain despite being highly capable cannot figure out true morals for itself. Moreover why should I agree with you over something that goes against me?

I did touch on these issues in my replies to you but unfortunately you were not capable of grasping the points I made in there. This is why I am detailing them a bit for you. If I do so you complain that I have overly done it. Despite all this you do not understand the issues explained because you think you do not need to know them. Otherwise you will have read my posts to see where I am coming from. You just want to say a, b, c, d and then run. What a purpose of life you have which you want to promote!

If you want to talk about the quran, first learn the needed knowledge and then argue about it otherwise you look foolish or worse stupid. I have explained some basic things for people like you who think they know all to help them educate themselves. I suggest you think over the issue of what the real education should be about in light of what I have explained and how vitally important it is to have proper moral base to start from or we cannot blame anyone for our immorality but our own very selves due to our wrong foundation regarding education. If our start is false or very wrong then we cannot be expected to built a great society on basis of such education.

As for your knowledge about the contents of the quran, please see if you can explain surah one in its per context. Or try and explain last 2 surahs. That will teach you how wrong you are about the quran. The kind of human society you are imagining about or longing for is in the quran which has been masked by haraami people and you instead of challenging haraami people are blaming the quran. How stupid you can be? So start thinking sensibly and stop talking nonsense about the quran and deen of islam. Get to know them first. I have explained already in posts how you can do that. Take advantage of that. Once you come to know what is really in the quran, you will be gobsmacked.

It is because people like you, no matter what they claim to be, think they can defeat the quran by their nonsense that is why they are keep digging their own graves deeper and deeper. You can never have quran based human society by going against the quran and humanity. The quran is about a proper human community or society, its politics, its culture and economics in the kingdom of God. It is against religion and secularism because they are based upon lies people learn from birth till death and ignore the God given guidance. Once you start discussing surahs 1, 112, 113, and 114 with me you will come to realise how wrong you are about the quran. So I will wait for your reply.

regards and all the best.

 

[desan]

Yeah man. You can ask me if you have any questions sexual and artificial selection, I spend a lot of time on these topics and took courses on it too because I find it very interesting to learn about our ancestors and where our behaviour comes from.

Couples already do DNA testing before having kids to make sure that their offspring is not at risk of genetic diseases. In future it will be considered very irresponsible of parents to have children without some form of gene editing to remove diseases and genetic disorders. There will also be options for cosmetic editing for eye and hair colour.

Gene editing will especially be important for fighting endogenous retroviruses such as HIV. These viruses are hard to fight because they manifest themselves in our DNA.

Fun-fact: Humans have thousands of dead endogenous retroviruses in their genome. Gorillas and Chimps have the same viruses but cats and dogs have fewer of them. The further we are on the evolutionary family tree, the less genome viruses we share in common. These ancient viruses don’t have an effect on us anymore but we can still see them.

The size of our brains are limited by the width of the bi-pedal hips of our mothers since the last 70,000 years. Maybe with C-Sections we can enter the next stage in our evolution and grow bigger brains than we have now and answer some of the questions that science is not able to answer today.

The world around us does not exist but in our brains.

As humans we are very feeble, inefficient and fickle.

The real brave new future will be when humans will be on a memory device somewhere that experiences it's existence based on it's own whims and wishes.

We will evolve through artificial intelligence and machine learning as the evolution as we know it is too slow and cumbersome.

 

[Mughal1]

Life and nature is not fair, especially if we look around the natural world in evolutionary terms.

Dear desan, life and nature is fair or not, cannot be judged properly without knowing the actual purpose of life and nature.

Humanity is disconnected from reality that is why they judge each and every thing wrong because they have no proper criterion or proper understanding of the criterion.

People have chosen to go the very long and very hard way to find out the real truth but had they looked for the real truth the right way they will have found it quickly and with less painful suffering as well as they will have benefitted from that a lot by now.

People need to understand systems properly and then they need to compare them with each other to see which one is the best. Instead anyone is taking a bit from here and bit from there and coming up with all sorts of nonsense.

regards and all the best.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Because you are delivering your verdicts on a book the contents of which you are not able to grasp.

That by definition makes it a badly written book. Good writers write in a way that delivers its message clearly.

We have deciphered Hierloglyphs from ancient Egypt but we are still unable to decipher 20% of the Quran.

Its claimed to be written in Arabic, yet the main language of Middle East in that time was Aramaic and lingusts cannot even come to a conclusion of which language and how many languages it was written in let alone try to understand what it is saying.