صدارتی ریفرنس:سپریم کورٹ نےمنحرف ارکان سے متعلق آرٹیکل 63 اے کافیصلہ سنادیا

Lubnakhan

Minister (2k+ posts)
میرے خیال سے سپریم کورٹ کے فیصلے کا پی ٹی آئی کو نقصان ہو گا۔
سپریم کورٹ نے ووٹ دینے کی صورت میں نہ گننے کا کہا ہے ، مگر ووٹ نا دینے کی صورت میں زبردستی گنا نہیں جائے گا۔
اس فیصلے کے بعد چونکہ منحرف ممبران کا ووٹ کائونٹ نہیں ہوا تو ان پر ڈیفیکشن نہیں لگے گی۔ اور دوسرے رائونڈ میں حمزء ووٹنگ کے وقت موجودہ افراد بے شک وہ 186 سے کم ہوں ان کی مدد سے وزیر اعلی بن جائے گا۔
اس وقت تک گورنر بھی ن لیگ کا آ چکا ہو گا تو وہ اعتماد کا ووٹ لینے کو نہیں کہے گا
اسہی دوران سپیکر بھی تبدیل کر سکتے ہیں جس پر ڈیفکشن کلاز نہیں لگتی۔ خفیہ رائے شماری میں سپیکر آرام سے تبدیل ہو سکتا ہے۔
اپنے سپیکر کی موجودگی میں مستقبل میں ن لیگ ڈیفکشن کا نوٹیفیکشن ہی نہیں کرے گی۔
آئین پاکستان میں موم کی ناک ہے۔ جس کا ڈنڈا ہوتا ہے سب اسہی کا ہوتا ہے
Even if a pro-PML-N governor is appointed, only 20 MPAs are needed to seek a vote of confidence from the chief minister.
 

HIDDEN

Minister (2k+ posts)
A well entrench leader may not care about the party policies . the policy of a civilian dictator may run against their own manifesto. You don't want to provide the leader who is hell bent destroying the principles and values ,more fuel to accomplish his agenda. This a safe check , a safety value to monitor the performance of a ruler.
Same is true for every leader. But then there is a way to resign and go to public for fresh votes by joining another party or forming a new party.

It is so simple.
 

Siberite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
یہ بات اپنی جگہ بالکل درست ہے پر غالبا عمران خان نے اپنے کارڈ اچھی طرح کھیل کر اسٹیبلشمنٹ اور عدلیہ کو پریشرائز کر دیا ہے۔ اب اسٹیبلشمنٹ اس حکومت کے پیچھے کھڑے ہونے کو تیار نہیں ہے۔ گمان ہے اگلے کچھ دنوں میں حکومت اسمبلیاں توڑ دے گی۔
I don't think that it was a very good idea to revive the rule who was already on his own head ,slipping down . However, now since they done that , it is their responsibilities to provide relief to the people, fix the economy and stabilize the country . If it takes the detention of IK , then be it. But they must be given a fair amount of time . 3 weeks are not the right time to inquire about their performance specially when the economy was left in a terrible state . I will give them another 2 months to see their performance,.

One the other hand, just look at this addict. He can't wait another 12 months . He wants to continue to destabilize the country and never let the economy to turn around . Because he is fearing the worst if the country gets back to its own feet and things start to improve. And that is why he is doing what he is doing . There is no point taking heat for his jokers activities.
 

nawaz.sharif

Senator (1k+ posts)
Which article of the constitution says that? Apni taraf se bongiyan aur dil to tassaliyan.

Article 130: see details in red below

"second poll shall be held between the members who secure the two highest numbers of votes in the first poll and the member who secures a majority of votes of the members present" -

130.The Cabinet:
(1)There shall be a Cabinet of Ministers, with the Chief Minister at its head, to aid and advise the Governor in the exercise of his functions.
(2)The Provincial Assembly shall meet on the twenty-first day following the day on which a general election to the Assembly is held, unless sooner summoned by the Governor.
(3)After the election of the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker, the Provincial Assembly shall, to the exclusion of any other business, proceed to elect without debate one of its members to be the Chief Minister.
(4)The Chief Minister shall be elected by the votes of the majority of the total membership of the Provincial Assembly:
Provided that, if no member secures such majority in the first poll, a second poll shall be held between the members who secure the two highest numbers of votes in the first poll and the member who secures a majority of votes of the members present and voting shall be declared to have been elected as Chief Minister:
Provided further that, if the number of votes secured by two or more members securing the highest number of votes is equal, further polls shall be held between them until one of them secures a majority of votes of the members present and voting.
 

Rambler

Minister (2k+ posts)
Everyone with an iota of sense knows IK is dragging Dallas towards an Election. This decision will further accelerate the process to demoralize Dallas further. Get ready to cast your votes by October. People should ensure free and fair elections and throw Dalla's in the dustbin where they belong.
 

Siberite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Same is true for every leader. But then there is a way to resign and go to public for fresh votes by joining another party or forming a new party.

It is so simple.

What is the restriction costing his own vote against the government ? It happens everywhere. Every democracy has this safety valve. Nothing wrong voting against the party if the party doesn't abide its own manifesto.
 

Rambler

Minister (2k+ posts)
I don't think that it was a very good idea to revive the rule who was already on his own head ,slipping down . However, now since they done that , it is their responsibilities to provide relief to the people, fix the economy and stabilize the country . If it takes the detention of IK , then be it. But they must be given a fair amount of time . 3 weeks are not the right time to inquire about their performance specially when the economy was left in a terrible state . I will give them another 2 months to see their performance,.

One the other hand, just look at this addict. He can't wait another 12 months . He wants to continue to destabilize the country and never let the economy to turn around . Because he is fearing the worst if the country gets back to its own feet and things start to improve. And that is why he is doing what he is doing . There is no point taking heat for his jokers activities.

Did you manage to earn your chah biskutt and some left overs for today?
 

Sn Sunny

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Constitution gives free choice of vote to every member. This is a universal right that people will cast their vote with full independence . Forcing people to stay with the Government policies which may run against the country is a dangerous path . If you take away the right of the individual members of Parliament to speak against their own Government, then you are inviting trouble and pave a way for conspiracies and allow the undemocratic forces to play a rule .
Constitutional also give a right to party policy
If someone doing action against party policy then it is unconstitutional
only public have right or speak against government policy
If member don't like government policy then simply give resignation from party and become public
 

HIDDEN

Minister (2k+ posts)
What is the restriction costing his own vote against the government ? It happens everywhere. Every democracy has this safety valve. Nothing wrong voting against the party if the party doesn't abide its own manifesto.
He cannot decide by himself. That's also a safety valve. Otherwise MNAs will sell their votes at every occasion, whether it is budget approval, bills, or NCM.

A handful of dissidents can't decide that their party or the party's leader is going against manifesto.

In mature democracies, parties have internal elections. In Pakistan there are dynasties. Both PPP and PMLN don't want democracy in their own parties. So please don't compare Pakistan with other mature democracies.

In Pakistan, you are giving the members an opportunity to earn a fortune in their 5 year term, that is enough for their 7 generations.

Don't act naïve please.
 

Siberite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Constitutional also give a right to party policy
If someone doing action against party policy then it is unconstitutional
only public have right or speak against government policy
If member don't like government policy then simply give resignation from party and become public
A dissenting vote is a vote in Parliament . Each one of them can exercise it . Why it has to be according to the leader's wish. These members are chosen by the public and they are elected from the public vote. If a party head can get lotas to form the government, then the party members also have a right to vote against party lines . It works both ways. Parties are allowed to get the independent members to switch . The party member should also have a right to vote according to their wishes. And as I said, individual members in VNC movement doesn't make much different unless the government is a minority government and depends on others members to keep them in power.
 

MMushtaq

Senator (1k+ posts)
Logical and good verdict..
See those judges who against it..I already said..who want floor crossing.he or she should resign..Ta hayat na heli on floor crossing..this should decide by Parliament.. Not by SC..
This is not decision. It is written in 63-A that a diverted vote will not be counted. Supreme Court was asked to give the explanation of punishment. SC didn't anything, it just re-iterated 63-A and asked PMLN to go back to drawing board and start thinking how to bring PTI down. This is not Supreme Court but Shameful Court.
 

jigrot

Senator (1k+ posts)
I don't think that it was a very good idea to revive the rule who was already on his own head ,slipping down . However, now since they done that , it is their responsibilities to provide relief to the people, fix the economy and stabilize the country . If it takes the detention of IK , then be it. But they must be given a fair amount of time . 3 weeks are not the right time to inquire about their performance specially when the economy was left in a terrible state . I will give them another 2 months to see their performance,.

One the other hand, just look at this addict. He can't wait another 12 months . He wants to continue to destabilize the country and never let the economy to turn around . Because he is fearing the worst if the country gets back to its own feet and things start to improve. And that is why he is doing what he is doing . There is no point taking heat for his jokers activities.
Why didn't PDM waited for few months. PTI Gov was in bad shape and going down.
 

Siberite

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
He cannot decide by himself. That's also a safety valve. Otherwise MNA will sell their votes at every occasion, whether it is budget approval, bills, or NCM.

A handful of dissidents can't decide that the party or a party leader is going against manifesto.

In mature democracies, parties have internal elections. In Pakistan there are dynasties. Both PPP and PMLN doesn't want democracy in their own parties. So please don't compare Pakistan with other mature democracies.

In Pakistan, you are giving the members an opportunity to earn a fortune in their 5 year term, that is enough for their 7 generations.

Don't act naïve please.
Individual votes do not count to affect the Government. It is only when the VNC is given that it become magnified. Where does it say that a member of parliament can't vote against the Government policies ? Had that been the case, SC would have easily decided the case long ago. The new ruling that their vote is not counted is an abstract . There is no law which denies them their vote even if it against their own party.
 

Bubber Shair

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
یار کچھ چیزیں میرے ذہن سے محو ہو گئی ہیں، اس فیصلے میں کوئی غیر متوقع چیز نہیں ہے پھر کیا سوچ کے آخر اس وقت کی اپوزیشن نے عدم اعتماد کا پلان بنایا؟ خاص طور پر پنجاب میں جہاں عدم اعتماد اور حکومت سازی میں منحرف اراکین کی مدد لی گئی ہے۔
انہوں نے جو بھی سوچ کر عدم اعتماد کی تھی اب وہ بے معنی ہوچکی ہے کیونکہ منحرف اراکین کے بغیر عدم اعتماد ہو ہی نہیں سکتی اور جو ووٹنگ کروای گئی تھی وہ بھی اب ویلڈ نہیں رہی
میرے خیال میں پنجاب حکومت اب واپس بزدار کے استعفی والی پوزیشن پر جاچکی ہے
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Article 130: see details in red below

"second poll shall be held between the members who secure the two highest numbers of votes in the first poll and the member who secures a majority of votes of the members present" -
The Chief Minister shall be elected by the votes of the majority of the total membership of the Provincial Assembly:
Provided that, if no member secures such majority in the first poll
That's the thing, without dissidents you don't have majority.
 
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