Some depressing predictions: We can hope for the better but we are ....

zulfiqarali

MPA (400+ posts)
I think the whole idea that the pressure and popularity that PTI has been able to garner in the last 2 months will eventually be successful to create a buckle in new power stakeholders is largely a problematic expectation. I have a feeling that knowing what we know of this country and how things work in the 'Chalta hai' paradigm of our national thought process, I will be pleasantly surprised if things get any better. I don't think that people who have worked so hard (in their own interests) to create this picture will allow a reversal. Think about it, (especially point nr.6)

1. Crooks who are looking for an NRO will not quit until they get their relief, or else why would they completely destroy their remaining goodwill with their own voters and give IK a boost for nothing.

2. Establishment who is always working from behind the scene exposed themselves in a very naked way this time, why would they do it if it was all uncertain and had little to gain.

3. The US would not invest in a conspiracy and use all their cards for something that has no logical gains on its strategic positioning, they did not change the regime for the benefit of PDM or establishment, they clearly have their interests. ie. China-CPEC

4. It takes a huge momentum of things and loopholes to create a circumstance where you can oust a sitting prime minister, they were able to do it very effectively. I do not think that an Imran Khan sitting outside the PM house will be able to ever overcome these shenanigans.

5. 'Haqeeqi Azadi' movement is largely dependent on the Naming and shaming of the stakeholders involved in this conspiracy and in reality, there are no plans for working through some real force in this regard. I think these stakeholders are far beyond being shamed out of their convictions.

6. In current conditions, there is a win-win or (in the case of Pakistanis Lose-Lose) situation for the US & CO., if they can successfully defuse PTI's pressure, they will be able to create circumstances that any reprisal against this system will become highly unlikely, and Pakistan's zombification is restored to normal once more, ready to be used, whenever and wherever needed. But a more frightening prospect is that even if they fail to defuse the pressure and things get out of hand, things can be managed in other more violent ways. examples of Black swan events are plenty, including for example the mutual Dera city killings (2011) of Protestors and the Syrian army which were later claimed to be done by 3rd party snipers in surrounding buildings with suspected connections with CIA operations in neighboring Jordan. We can easily imagine such a watershed event happening in Pakistan. If such an event happens, there will be an explosion of variables in this equation and we will not be able to control anything, Others might find the value of their specific interests from this chaos (removal of nuclear assets, capturing of AJK/GB, Separation of Balochistan) but overall hundred of millions of Pakistanis will suffer great pains.

I hope I am wrong, I hope Allah has planned something good for our country but as Allah says that God does not change the condition of those who do not change their conditions, I fear, whatever we do, we have been dealt a bad hand.
 
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Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
i agree with your majority of assertions
The things that may work in IK favour is the immigrated or installed Govt bankruptcy on pakistan,becsause from the look of things this installed is bringing the bankruptcy event more closely
they can only avert this bankruptcy only if IMF comes to the rescue which it may
Public pressure would have been effective when No confidence movement was presented against IK.It is an opportunity lost.
 

Meme

Minister (2k+ posts)
دو دہائیوں سے ن لیگ، پی پی کی حکمرانی رہی کبھی ایٹمی اثاثوں کے خلاف سازش نہیں ہوئی، اب عمران آیا ہے تو ایٹمی اثاثوں کیخلاف سازش شروع ہوگئی۔ یہ کیا راز ہے؟

Meme Reaction GIF
 

thinking

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Sab ke stakes high hain.Army Establishment..USA..Pmln(Shareef family only)Zardari..PTI..PDM others parties..Dekhtay hain Kismat mein kia likha ha Pakistan ki..
I don't agree to compare Pakistan with Iraq.Egypt..Sudan.Turkey..Srilanka.
Pakistan have very different.. diverse population .peoples mind set.
Zayada door nahi..bohat jald faisla ho jana ha.
 

ashahid786

MPA (400+ posts)
دو دہائیوں سے ن لیگ، پی پی کی حکمرانی رہی کبھی ایٹمی اثاثوں کے خلاف سازش نہیں ہوئی، اب عمران آیا ہے تو ایٹمی اثاثوں کیخلاف سازش شروع ہوگئی۔ یہ کیا راز ہے؟

Meme Reaction GIF
This is because there was no need to take the revolver from a slave; he can’t pull the trigger because he is mentally and physically defeated.

Soon as you replace him with a free honourable soul, it is time to take the weapons away.

The big powers now know that this country can rise up and confront them anytime, so the task of crushing the country has taken an extreme urgency.
 

Meme

Minister (2k+ posts)
This is because there was no need to take the revolver from a slave; he can’t pull the trigger because he is mentally and physically defeated.

Soon as you replace him with a free honourable soul, it is time to take the weapons away.

The big powers now know that this country can rise up and confront them anytime, so the task of crushing the country has taken an extreme urgency.
What a depressing exercise to engage with Imrani junta...
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We now know for a fact that corruption is not an issue for the establishment. They just use it as a tool to bully and victimize their naysayers. The purpose is just to tame politicians. Corrupt or not, they will use & discard you as a tissue paper at their leisure.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
1. Crooks who are looking for an NRO will not quit until they get their relief
They are trying their best since day one, but the sheer amount of shit against them, its not that easy in this day and age.
2. Establishment who is always working from behind the scene exposed themselves in a very naked way this time,
They didn't expose themselves, they got exposed, they just thought like every other time, sweets will be distributed on the streets, a little wah wah like mujhe kyun nikal from Khan for a couple of days and back to business as usual.
3. The US would not invest in a conspiracy and use all their cards
US has used hardly any of its cards. It just made a few threats, made a few promises at most maybe even supplied a couple of million dollars, which is chump change for them.
4. It takes a huge momentum of things and loopholes to create a circumstance
No conspiracy succeeds without traitors aur Allah ka fazal hai, we have tons of them. Without traitors outside forces can huff and puff until they are blue in the face and not much can happen.

5. 'Haqeeqi Azadi' movement is largely dependent on the Naming and shaming
Not true, that's just a side effect or added bonus if you will. It's people power examples, Tahrir Square, Military Coup averted in Turkey by the people and now Sri Lanka, ruling corrupt family ltd party forced to step down. i.e don't underestimate people power.

Point 6 : Too much irrelevant general speculation which didn't warrant a detailed reply
 

Imjutt

Councller (250+ posts)
I think the whole idea that the pressure and popularity that PTI has been able to garner in the last 2 months will eventually be successful to create a buckle in new power stakeholders is largely a problematic expectation. I have a feeling that knowing what we know of this country and how things work in the 'Chalta hai' paradigm of our national thought process, I will be pleasantly surprised if things get any better. I don't think that people who have worked so hard (in their own interests) to create this picture will allow a reversal. Think about it, (especially point nr.6)

1. Crooks who are looking for an NRO will not quit until they get their relief, or else why would they completely destroy their remaining goodwill with their own voters and give IK a boost for nothing.

2. Establishment who is always working from behind the scene exposed themselves in a very naked way this time, why would they do it if it was all uncertain and had little to gain.

3. The US would not invest in a conspiracy and use all their cards for something that has no logical gains on its strategic positioning, they did not change the regime for the benefit of PDM or establishment, they clearly have their interests. ie. China-CPEC

4. It takes a huge momentum of things and loopholes to create a circumstance where you can oust a sitting prime minister, they were able to do it very effectively. I do not think that an Imran Khan sitting outside the PM house will be able to ever overcome these shenanigans.

5. 'Haqeeqi Azadi' movement is largely dependent on the Naming and shaming of the stakeholders involved in this conspiracy and in reality, there are no plans for working through some real force in this regard. I think these stakeholders are far beyond being shamed out of their convictions.

6. In current conditions, there is a win-win or (in the case of Pakistanis Lose-Lose) situation for the US & CO., if they can successfully defuse PTI's pressure, they will be able to create circumstances that any reprisal against this system will become highly unlikely, and Pakistan's zombification is restored to normal once more, ready to be used, whenever and wherever needed. But a more frightening prospect is that even if they fail to defuse the pressure and things get out of hand, things can be managed in other more violent ways. examples of Black swan events are plenty, including for example the mutual Dera city killings (2011) of Protestors and the Syrian army which were later claimed to be done by 3rd party snipers in surrounding buildings with suspected connections with CIA operations in neighboring Jordan. We can easily imagine such a watershed event happening in Pakistan. If such an event happens, there will be an explosion of variables in this equation and we will not be able to control anything, Others might find the value of their specific interests from this chaos (removal of nuclear assets, capturing of AJK/GB, Separation of Balochistan) but overall hundred of millions of Pakistanis will suffer great pains.

I hope I am wrong, I hope Allah has planned something good for our country but as Allah says that God does not change the condition of those who do not change their conditions, I fear, whatever we do, we have been dealt a bad hand.
They are trying their best since day one, but the sheer amount of shit against them, its not that easy in this day and age.

They didn't expose themselves, they got exposed, they just thought like every other time, sweets will be distributed on the streets, a little wah wah like mujhe kyun nikal from Khan for a couple of days and back to business as usual.

US has used hardly any of its cards. It just made a few threats, made a few promises at most maybe even supplied a couple of million dollars, which is chump change for them.

No conspiracy succeeds without traitors aur Allah ka fazal hai, we have tons of them. Without traitors outside forces can huff and puff until they are blue in the face and not much can happen.


Not true, that's just a side effect or added bonus if you will. It's people power examples, Tahrir Square, Military Coup averted in Turkey by the people and now Sri Lanka, ruling corrupt family ltd party forced to step down. i.e don't underestimate people power.

Point 6 : Too much irrelevant general speculation which didn't warrant a detailed reply
I agree with @citize X: 100% and like to add that point 1,2 and some of 3rd point was really a miscalculation from the masters. The response they got; they were not expecting at all...
 

zulfiqarali

MPA (400+ posts)
دو دہائیوں سے ن لیگ، پی پی کی حکمرانی رہی کبھی ایٹمی اثاثوں کے خلاف سازش نہیں ہوئی، اب عمران آیا ہے تو ایٹمی اثاثوں کیخلاف سازش شروع ہوگئی۔ یہ کیا راز ہے؟

Meme Reaction GIF
what kind of ignorant foolish comment. The condition before was always in their hand, as i wrote, if they are successful in defusing PTI's momentum then yes the things will remain the same for some time, but if there is a watershed event during this struggle and protests become violent, they would make the case for the nuclear assets.
 

zulfiqarali

MPA (400+ posts)
They are trying their best since day one, but the sheer amount of shit against them, its not that easy in this day and age.
Dude they did it! it is done, in this day and age. what else do you want from them? The last NRO was not given to Egyptian pharaohs, it was the same people.
They didn't expose themselves, they got exposed, they just thought like every other time, sweets will be distributed on the streets, a little wah wah like mujhe kyun nikal from Khan for a couple of days and back to business as usual.
This is funny, how come they could have secretly done it? of course, is an overt operation. I think you are forgetting that these crooks are not working alone and their masters pushed them towards this, quite openly in this case.
US has used hardly any of its cards. It just made a few threats, made a few promises at most maybe even supplied a couple of million dollars, which is chump change for them.
A foreign country has a limited diplomatic capital in another country. it is not just money, there are other human resource expenses that country lose with such actions. The US did not do this for just 'punishing' for russian visit or saving these crooks, it is for cpec.
No conspiracy succeeds without traitors aur Allah ka fazal hai, we have tons of them. Without traitors outside forces can huff and puff until they are blue in the face and not much can happen.
no answer needed.
Not true, that's just a side effect or added bonus if you will. It's people power examples, Tahrir Square, Military Coup averted in Turkey by the people and now Sri Lanka, ruling corrupt family ltd party forced to step down. i.e don't underestimate people power.
This whole idea that we as a nation will rise up and these change things, it is not going to happen. anyone who thinks that nowadays any protracted political struggle can remain vibrant for long or bloodless is not aware of the numerous example around the world. People's power only works with votes, protest do very little in practice. it might shack things around but no amount of protest can make them change what they want to do in the coming days.
Point 6 : Too much irrelevant general speculation which didn't warrant a detailed reply
I hope it remains irrelevant, but usually, all nations who go into a civil war never expect that it could happen to them. This is called normalcy bias.
Pakistanis think that Pakistan is forever, they forget that hundreds of far bigger empires collapsed in the last 1000 years, and many of them are now just a footnote of history.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Dude they did it! it is done
Far from it, cases are all still active, nani couldn't even get her passport back, ganju is desperate to come back, can't etc etc.
This is funny, how come they could have secretly done it?
Like I said if Khan went away quietly no one would have known about it. It is Khan who exposed every one.
This whole idea that we as a nation will rise up and these change things, it is not going to happen. anyone who thinks that nowadays any protracted political struggle can remain vibrant for long or bloodless is not aware of the numerous example around the world. People's power only works with votes, protest do very little in practice. it might shack things around but no amount of protest can make them change what they want to do in the coming days.
Well can't do anything about your defeatist attitude.
 
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