The Great Reluctances.

stargazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I am writing this some from my memories of what my father passed down during discussions and some that I have read about in some books written on the topic.
After the 1971 war, it was well known among the military circles that Gen. Niazi repeatedly asked for a Court-Martial from Bhutto, Gen. Niazi also asked for his own court-martial in some press talks and it was published in the newspapers also.
But, Bhutto would not do that, and Gen. Tikka would not do that because for one it was easy to blame Gen.Niazi for the surrender and take the heat away from Bhutto, and secondly they both knew that if they did they would be digging holes if not their own graves.
Gen. Niazi passed away, Bhutto was hanged but no court-martial was ever held so there sits a lot of dust on the secrets of what happened and how Gen. Niazi was tricked into surrendering.
Now, there is a similar situation, PTI and IK are demanding an inquiry into the validity of their claim of a saazish but Establishment and their puppets are hesitating, dragging their feet though if they are right they have the golden opportunity to destroy PTI. Yet, Establishment and the imported government are reluctant and resistant to this opportunity on a platter.
This begets the question of what stops the Establishment and imported government from making a clean swooping kill?
The answer in my mind is they are trying to avoid a shameful suicide.
 

Dr Adam

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I am writing this some from my memories of what my father passed down during discussions and some that I have read about in some books written on the topic.
After the 1971 war, it was well known among the military circles that Gen. Niazi repeatedly asked for a Court-Martial from Bhutto, Gen. Niazi also asked for his own court-martial in some press talks and it was published in the newspapers also.
But, Bhutto would not do that, and Gen. Tikka would not do that because for one it was easy to blame Gen.Niazi for the surrender and take the heat away from Bhutto, and secondly they both knew that if they did they would be digging holes if not their own graves.
Gen. Niazi passed away, Bhutto was hanged but no court-martial was ever held so there sits a lot of dust on the secrets of what happened and how Gen. Niazi was tricked into surrendering.
Now, there is a similar situation, PTI and IK are demanding an inquiry into the validity of their claim of a saazish but Establishment and their puppets are hesitating, dragging their feet though if they are right they have the golden opportunity to destroy PTI. Yet, Establishment and the imported government are reluctant and resistant to this opportunity on a platter.
This begets the question of what stops the Establishment and imported government from making a clean swooping kill?
The answer in my mind is they are trying to avoid a shameful suicide.


Forcing Gen Niazi to lay down the arms against his and his commanders will by Gen Yahya and Bhutto is just the tip of the iceberg. That SOB Bhutto, a power hungry dog was the real architect and the main culprit in this debacle. Yahya the alcoholic idiot, was always drunk and this cunning scumbag Bhutto took advantage of the situation and sucked him into this treacherous plot and made him to order Gen Niazi to sign the surrender document.
Rest is history.
 

thinking

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
General Niazi hopeless tha.Bhutto aur Gen Yaha total surrender k peechay they...Dhaka fall hamaray Generals..Civilians ka mushtrqa karnama tha..Bangalio k ander hates..aik din mein paida nahi howi..decades lagay is nafrat ko paida karnay mein.Us waqt hamaray Generals
Civilians apnay chakaro m paray howay they..jab hosh aya tu waqt guzar chuka tha.India tu dushman tha.Us ne wo hi kia Jo dushman karta ha.Phir bhi aik last chance tha hallat sambhlany ka aur koi strategy ban ne ka.Bhutto ko PM ship Majeeb Ur Rehman ko de deni chahay thi.kiyo k us k pass majority thi..Is trah ham time gain kar ke Bangalio ko deal karnay ka koi rasta nikaltay..
 

disgusted

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Forcing Gen Niazi to lay down the arms against his and his commanders will by Gen Yahya and Bhutto is just the tip of the iceberg. That SOB Bhutto, a power hungry dog was the real architect and the main culprit in this debacle. Yahya the alcoholic idiot, was always drunk and this cunning scumbag Bhutto took advantage of the situation and sucked him into this treacherous plot and made him to order Gen Niazi to sign the surrender document.
Rest is history.
Dr.Sb. You have used very mild words for the architect of destruction of the country. The SOB is still alive in rural Sindh
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
That Bhutto , who could not save himself from Haraamzadi FOUJ when he was in power, how could he be responsible for something which happened in military dictatorship? This is again the same propaganda and distortion of history by the imperial servant FOUJ. If there were Twitter, Facebook and other free media at that time, everyone would have had the same conclusion as we are having today after removal of PTI government.
 

khipk

Senator (1k+ posts)
That Bhutto , who could not save himself from Haraamzadi FOUJ when he was in power, how could he be responsible for something which happened in military dictatorship? This is again the same propaganda and distortion of history by the imperial servant FOUJ. If there were Twitter, Facebook and other free media at that time, everyone would have had the same conclusion as we are having today after removal of PTI government.
He refused to accept defeat in election when awami league won more than 50% seats.

He famously rejected the call for 1s NA session after election, and said
"jo NA session main gaya us kee tangain toor dengay"
" hum idher tum udher"
" so-ar(pig) kay bachay hain" while refering to Awami league people

He said all these within a single speech. Then after the bifurcation of the country the pig himself went on to destroy the remains of the country by nationalizing all commercial and educational institutions, and deploying illiterates in millions in all these institutions. That asshole is responsible for almost all of the cultural evils of the country.
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
He refused to accept defeat in election when awami league won more than 50% seats.

He famously rejected the call for 1s NA session after election, and said
"jo NA session main gaya us kee tangain toor dengay"
" hum idher tum udher"
" so-ar(pig) kay bachay hain" while refering to Awami league people

He said all these within a single speech. Then after the bifurcation of the country the pig himself went on to destroy the remains of the country by nationalizing all commercial and educational institutions, and deploying illiterates in millions in all these institutions. That asshole is responsible for almost all of the cultural evils of the country.

Think a bit logically and rational, do not be overwhelmed by the biases or the brain-washing material written mostly under military rule of Zia.
Even in last elections, nobody accepted the results, even before that PTI did not accept the results when Noon won like 60% of seats. Did PTI break the country as they were in power in KPK, could they break the country in any way?
Secondly, what power had Bhutto before elections that he could have said "jo assembly mayn gaya uski tanagyn tor dayn gay?". The power was with military, it was dictatorship's era and again, Awami league had more than 50% seats, then what difference would it have made if some 30% of the people do not attend the NA session.
"Idhar hum, udhar tum" was just a newspaper's headline and that guy accepted it in his interview who edited that headline. Even if we accept that he said that in a speech, that speech was after the debacle, it was in context of accepting Bangladesh as a country after they got independence from Pakistan Army.
Now lastly, what cultural evils you are talking about? Bhutto's Pakistan was the most progressive and forward looking, in its whole 75 years. Bhutto was the first person who gave people the power, brought general public in power, brought literate people forward, started all the necessary strategic programs and institutions. The list is so long that I cannot write all here, it is enough to say that even those who were politically on the other side, are naming him as their ideal, dumbs like NS. Leave others, even IK is on record many a times saying that one leader we had , was Bhutto.
Bhutto's cultural and social influence was so much, that even today, in its most worst condition, PPP is the only progressive and liberal party in Pakistan. It is understood that its not the same PPP, the people are third class, leadership is corrupt, but the ideology was so strong that even today, no matter which party we support, if we talk about religious freedom, farmers and workers rights, extremism, minority rights, women protection and rights, no matter what we consider, PPP is the only party whose policy is clear. Why? Because it had Bhutto's ideology.
 

khipk

Senator (1k+ posts)
Think a bit logically and rational, do not be overwhelmed by the biases or the brain-washing material written mostly under military rule of Zia.
Even in last elections, nobody accepted the results, even before that PTI did not accept the results when Noon won like 60% of seats. Did PTI break the country as they were in power in KPK, could they break the country in any way?
Secondly, what power had Bhutto before elections that he could have said "jo assembly mayn gaya uski tanagyn tor dayn gay?". The power was with military, it was dictatorship's era and again, Awami league had more than 50% seats, then what difference would it have made if some 30% of the people do not attend the NA session.
"Idhar hum, udhar tum" was just a newspaper's headline and that guy accepted it in his interview who edited that headline. Even if we accept that he said that in a speech, that speech was after the debacle, it was in context of accepting Bangladesh as a country after they got independence from Pakistan Army.
Now lastly, what cultural evils you are talking about? Bhutto's Pakistan was the most progressive and forward looking, in its whole 75 years. Bhutto was the first person who gave people the power, brought general public in power, brought literate people forward, started all the necessary strategic programs and institutions. The list is so long that I cannot write all here, it is enough to say that even those who were politically on the other side, are naming him as their ideal, dumbs like NS. Leave others, even IK is on record many a times saying that one leader we had , was Bhutto.
Bhutto's cultural and social influence was so much, that even today, in its most worst condition, PPP is the only progressive and liberal party in Pakistan. It is understood that its not the same PPP, the people are third class, leadership is corrupt, but the ideology was so strong that even today, no matter which party we support, if we talk about religious freedom, farmers and workers rights, extremism, minority rights, women protection and rights, no matter what we consider, PPP is the only party whose policy is clear. Why? Because it had Bhutto's ideology.
Brought literate people forward??? This has to be the biggest joke of the century. He literally destroyed industries of Karachi, by over hiring people that were illiterate before his time, KE ptcl ssgc and all other govt companies were well functioning entities, i have personally spoken with family members and friends who were working there at time, all of them give same account : " jidher jaga thee kursi rakh ker banda bitha dia gaya" things went shity from there, number of employees increased 10 fold, i.e. there were 10 persons doing the work of 1 person. All the industries were destroyed, ask any economist. PEC/BECO Lahore was one of the biggest manufacturing industry of Pakistan, that became defunct due to nationalization, same goes for all the banks and educational institutions. He destroyed everything literally everything in Pakistan.
Things were so shitty that customs officers at Karachi airport were giving out forms/reports to passenger to fill, which were supposed to be filled by themselves, reason? They didnt know how to freaking properly read whats written in the form.
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Brought literate people forward??? This has to be the biggest joke of the century. He literally destroyed industries of Karachi, by over hiring people that were illiterate before his time, KE ptcl ssgc and all other govt companies were well functioning entities, i have personally spoken with family members and friends who were working there at time, all of them give same account : " jidher jaga thee kursi rakh ker banda bitha dia gaya" things went shity from there, number of employees increased 10 fold, i.e. there were 10 persons doing the work of 1 person. All the industries were destroyed, ask any economist. PEC/BECO Lahore was one of the biggest manufacturing industry of Pakistan, that became defunct due to nationalization, same goes for all the banks and educational institutions. He destroyed everything literally everything in Pakistan.
Things were so shitty that customs officers at Karachi airport were giving out forms/reports to passenger to fill, which were supposed to be filled by themselves, reason? They didnt know how to freaking properly read whats written in the form.

Once again, I can clearly see that you are overwhelmed by your biases. It is okay to have a bias but denying or twisting facts is way too much. Do you know what was Bhutto's political ideology?
 

stargazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Once again, I can clearly see that you are overwhelmed by your biases. It is okay to have a bias but denying or twisting facts is way too much. Do you know what was Bhutto's political ideology?
Lots of words, 99% of them are lies and fabrications. Just because you use 5000 words does not mean you have explained anything or changed a fact.
I give you credit for trying but no respect for lies.