When will we have Hijri calendar?

shafali

Minister (2k+ posts)
When Would We Have Hijri Calendar?
ZAHEER HUSSAIN

I have had discussion with various people, in different forums, about the moon sighting, naked eye sighting, calendar based on moon phases, calculations etc. Their immediate response has been, “Our deen is perfect. We don’t need any modifications to our calendar.” I reply, “Yes, our deen is perfect. That’s why it suits every generation, and no scientific or technological advancement can make Islamic things obsolete. But by insisting on the naked-eye moon sighting, we have made the Hijri calendar obsolete with no use except for starting and ending our fasts and going to Hajj. Even if we try, we cannot use the Hijri calendar for our worldly life. In doing so, we have made ourselves dependent on the Gregorian calendar so much so that we do not even realize that we are so much dependent on a non-Islamic calendar.” I will you give you an example.

Everybody these days travels by airplanes and for that they book seats, sometimes months in advance. More than often, they change planes midway. Now let’s say you want to use Hijri calendar to book your seats. You want to travel from New York to Karachi via Dubai on Shabaan 30th. Now the fun begins.

The agent says, “Sorry sir, we cannot book any flights on Shabaan 30th because there is no guarantee of Shabaan 30th.”

Then you ask the agent to book the seat on Ramadan 1st. “The agent says, “Sorry sir, we are not sure when the Ramadan 1st is going to be.”

Out of frustration, you tell the agent to book a flight on Ramadan 15th. And you show up at the New York airport. The agent says, “Sorry sir, but you are one day late. Today is Ramadan 16th.” But you insist it is Ramadan 15th. The agent replies, “The airline runs as per the Dubai dates. And in Dubai it is Ramadan 16th today.”

In frustration you cancel the ticket. And you book another flight for Ramadan 25th. This time you use United Airlines because you do not want the date confusion. You show up at the New York airport on Ramadan 25th. The agent tells you, “Sorry sir, but you came one day too early.” You dispute the date. The agent explains, “This airline is based in Chicago. They started Ramadan a day later than New York.”

Then you change your mind and try to reserve a seat on Emirates believing that travel via Dubai will not be as confusing since the whole trip will be based on Dubai dates. The agent explains to you your itinerary: “Sir, you leave New York on Ramadan 29th. Your connecting flight to Karachi is on Shawwal 1st. In case they did not see the moon, there will not be any connecting flights at Dubai since it will be Ramadan 30th in Dubai, and we do not fly any flights on the 30th of the month because there is no guarantee of the 30th day in any month.”

Since you were desperate to travel, you leave on Ramadan 29th. When you reached Dubai, you find that you reached Dubai on Shawwal 2nd. You are shocked and demand an explanation. The agent explains, “Sir, the last month there was a mistake in the moon sighting. So the king adjusted the date. Please do not worry, the king paid the kaffara on everybody’s behalf.”

You managed to return to the USA. But your boss wants you to go to Dubai again for a business meeting. You say, “Gee, I will rather do a video teleconference.” You schedule a conference on Shawaal 25th at 11:00 GMT and invite Mr. Khalid from Dubai and Mr. Ali from India. On Shawaal 25th you start the conference and find nobody there. Well, you discover it is Shawaal 26th in Dubai and Shawaal 24th in India.

Is that the way, our Deen Islam requires us to live in the twenty-first century? Our Ulamaa' are still hooked up on naked eye sighting, and if it is cloudy complete 30 days. Our Ulamaa' have really made a mess of Hijri Calendar, and want to still live in dark ages.


 
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knowledge88

Minister (2k+ posts)
When Would We Have Hijri Calendar?
ZAHEER HUSSAIN

I have had discussion with various people, in different forums, about the moon sighting, naked eye sighting, calendar based on moon phases, calculations etc. Their immediate response has been, “Our deen is perfect. We don’t need any modifications to our calendar.” I reply, “Yes, our deen is perfect. That’s why it suits every generation, and no scientific or technological advancement can make Islamic things obsolete. But by insisting on the naked-eye moon sighting, we have made the Hijri calendar obsolete with no use except for starting and ending our fasts and going to Hajj. Even if we try, we cannot use the Hijri calendar for our worldly life. In doing so, we have made ourselves dependent on the Gregorian calendar so much so that we do not even realize that we are so much dependent on a non-Islamic calendar.” I will you give you an example.

Everybody these days travels by airplanes and for that they book seats, sometimes months in advance. More than often, they change planes midway. Now let’s say you want to use Hijri calendar to book your seats. You want to travel from New York to Karachi via Dubai on Shabaan 30th. Now the fun begins.

The agent says, “Sorry sir, we cannot book any flights on Shabaan 30th because there is no guarantee of Shabaan 30th.”

Then you ask the agent to book the seat on Ramadan 1st. “The agent says, “Sorry sir, we are not sure when the Ramadan 1st is going to be.”

Out of frustration, you tell the agent to book a flight on Ramadan 15th. And you show up at the New York airport. The agent says, “Sorry sir, but you are one day late. Today is Ramadan 16th.” But you insist it is Ramadan 15th. The agent replies, “The airline runs as per the Dubai dates. And in Dubai it is Ramadan 16th today.”

In frustration you cancel the ticket. And you book another flight for Ramadan 25th. This time you use United Airlines because you do not want the date confusion. You show up at the New York airport on Ramadan 25th. The agent tells you, “Sorry sir, but you came one day too early.” You dispute the date. The agent explains, “This airline is based in Chicago. They started Ramadan a day later than New York.”

Then you change your mind and try to reserve a seat on Emirates believing that travel via Dubai will not be as confusing since the whole trip will be based on Dubai dates. The agent explains to you your itinerary: “Sir, you leave New York on Ramadan 29th. Your connecting flight to Karachi is on Shawwal 1st. In case they did not see the moon, there will not be any connecting flights at Dubai since it will be Ramadan 30th in Dubai, and we do not fly any flights on the 30th of the month because there is no guarantee of the 30th day in any month.”

Since you were desperate to travel, you leave on Ramadan 29th. When you reached Dubai, you find that you reached Dubai on Shawwal 2nd. You are shocked and demand an explanation. The agent explains, “Sir, the last month there was a mistake in the moon sighting. So the king adjusted the date. Please do not worry, the king paid the kaffara on everybody’s behalf.”

You managed to return to the USA. But your boss wants you to go to Dubai again for a business meeting. You say, “Gee, I will rather do a video teleconference.” You schedule a conference on Shawaal 25th at 11:00 GMT and invite Mr. Khalid from Dubai and Mr. Ali from India. On Shawaal 25th you start the conference and find nobody there. Well, you discover it is Shawaal 26th in Dubai and Shawaal 24th in India.

Is that the way, our Deen Islam requires us to live in the twenty-first century? Our Ulamaa' are still hooked up on naked eye sighting, and if it is cloudy complete 30 days. Our Ulamaa' have really made a mess of Hijri Calendar, and want to still live in dark ages.


Your article has great humour. I laughed all the way to the end. Do you know Christians celebrate Easter according to lunar calendar. But they know when the next Easter would come for next hundred of years. So it is easy for them to declare Easter holidays in advance. Same goes for Jews. They also celebrate their religious festivals according to the moon but they also know in advance their holidays. But we in Pakistan have two lunar dates. One in Peshawar and one in rest of the Pakistan.
 
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khipk

Senator (1k+ posts)
I really dont get the rigidity of our Mualvis.
1. They are ok with science giving them time of Iftar (Maghrib) and Seher (Fajr) before hand, but they dont accept the moon sighting. i.e. they would accept the information on movement of Sun which is farther away from earth from science, but would not accept Lunar movement info. They are more concerned with 1 Roza on the day of Eid rather than all of them.

2. The whole concept of moon sighting in Islam is not that rigid. Islam tells you to make sure the moon is sighted, if you are not sure then delay the start of the month to next day. Case study, if on 29th the sky is cloudy, then the decision would be different if the country has a tall building such as burj khalifa or not. because if they have they can go on top of it and view the moon above the layer of cloud. This shows that Islam is not rigid. on the issue.
3. the whole issue of moon sighting based on political boundary of a country is completely absurd. Today people in southern coast would take into account moon sighting in Islamabad Peshawar and other northern cities, and vice versa. What if God forbid, the country breaks up into two from the center. i.e. Sindh Baluchistan separate from KPK and Punjab. Would sightings still have same effect? What if India never broke up, we would accept the moon sighting from Tamil region and from UP region, now we dont, Why ? because they are different political union as now.

The best solution to this is Turkish method. They take into account moon sighting anywhere on the globe, and according to science. Thats the perfect method, and unifies everybody across the globe. You can right now tell when would Turkish govt and turks all over the world would celebrate eid in 2030.
 

khipk

Senator (1k+ posts)
اگر وزارت سائینس اور ٹیکنالوجی سے بنوانا ہے تو ایک گھنٹے میں بن جائے گا اور اگر کسی مولوی سے بنوانا ہے تو لگے رہو منا بھائی۔ ان سالوں کا تو چاند ایک نہیں
Chaand is in the eyes of the Beholder, Sab nay samnay walay ghar ka chand dekhna hota hay na :D
 

knowledge88

Minister (2k+ posts)
I really dont get the rigidity of our Mualvis.
1. They are ok with science giving them time of Iftar (Maghrib) and Seher (Fajr) before hand, but they dont accept the moon sighting. i.e. they would accept the information on movement of Sun which is farther away from earth from science, but would not accept Lunar movement info. They are more concerned with 1 Roza on the day of Eid rather than all of them.

2. The whole concept of moon sighting in Islam is not that rigid. Islam tells you to make sure the moon is sighted, if you are not sure then delay the start of the month to next day. Case study, if on 29th the sky is cloudy, then the decision would be different if the country has a tall building such as burj khalifa or not. because if they have they can go on top of it and view the moon above the layer of cloud. This shows that Islam is not rigid. on the issue.
3. the whole issue of moon sighting based on political boundary of a country is completely absurd. Today people in southern coast would take into account moon sighting in Islamabad Peshawar and other northern cities, and vice versa. What if God forbid, the country breaks up into two from the center. i.e. Sindh Baluchistan separate from KPK and Punjab. Would sightings still have same effect? What if India never broke up, we would accept the moon sighting from Tamil region and from UP region, now we dont, Why ? because they are different political union as now.

The best solution to this is Turkish method. They take into account moon sighting anywhere on the globe, and according to science. Thats the perfect method, and unifies everybody across the globe. You can right now tell when would Turkish govt and turks all over the world would celebrate eid in 2030.
You have good knowledge on the subject. You could write an essay on that. But you are also to be blamed. Surprised why I blamed you ? Because people like you want to study Engineering, medicine but don't want to become a religious scholar . Then we are left with Kokab Noorani who tells us the earth is stationary and the sun is revolving around it.
 

khipk

Senator (1k+ posts)
You have good knowledge on the subject. You could write an essay on that. But you are also to be blamed. Surprised why I blamed you ? Because people like you want to study Engineering, medicine but don't want to become a religious scholar . Then we are left with Kokab Noorani who tells us the earth is stationary and the sun is revolving around it.
I would partially agree with you, but this info I gained only by studying engineering, although in a perfect world our education system should have have taught me and you this thing in 3rd or 4th grade science. Apart from the theoretical knowledge, our education system severely lacks in critical thinking. And to top that in our culture, critical review of someones opinions is considered as a Huge insult. We are not allowed the say that our elders, or religious authorities are wrong or made an honest mistake on any topic under the guise of Respect. The reason is it hurts the Ego of other person, and we as a nation are very egoistic. And we defend the presence of huge ego under the guise of honor.
Poori social mental reconstruction kee zaroorat hay humain.
* By WE I mean South Asians in general and Pakistanis in particular.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Islam is deen ie a proper way of life advised for mankind by God to live by. It is not nonsense called religion. Religion is not a way of life and it cannot be because one cannot live one's life on basis of pooja paat. Religion helps haraamies unduly exploit people one way and secularism the other way. This is how mankind are trapped between the rock and the hard place. They must break out of this trap with the help of the quran and deen of islam by understanding deen of islam properly from the quran by learning proper ways for proper understanding of the quran. The quran is a rational book sent by God for humanity to teach them sense beyond the stage of normal learning methods. This is why it is sent in the language of God not normal arabic which people speak or use in daily life.

This is why it is absolutely necessary for mankind to learn things about human language so that they could see what is difference between the language used by God in the quran and their own use of language. It is absolutely necessary to come to know what human language is, what is its origin or where do its words come from or what words are and how did they get their meanings. Knowing processes and mechanisms involved in all this is absolutely necessary so that then we could try and interpret the quran into our human language. Knowing all this will help us know why we need to do all this. Once we come to know things we need to know, we will be able to interpret the quran properly.

Nonsense beliefs and practices have nothing at all to do with the quran or islam. It is because people hold nonsense beliefs and take on nonsense practices in the name of the quran, they end up destroying themselves instead of gaining ground in living a purpose based life as told by the quran. The quran is not about pooja paat but about turning the world into riyaaste madina. Riyaasate madina was a paradise in the kingdom of God for people who brought it about and maintained it. It came to an end after many serious mistakes were made by later generations who did not pay attention to what messenger of God and his companion went through to bring it about and to maintain it. People who claim to be muslims will have to follow the very same example if they wish to bring about riyaasate madina ever again. Make beliefs and irrelevant practices will not bring about riyaasate madina. This is why for many centuries we have not been able to do so. It is because we have not been putting our money where our mouth is.

For this the quran needs to be learned properly by people themselves and then learned people need to teach it to the rest properly and that will connect people on the basis of the quran and that is the way to bring about the risaayat like madina. At the moment people who claim to be muslims have no idea what the actual message in the quran is, so they have nothing sensible to teach anyone else therefore they are taken over by chaos and confusion. If we want to get out of this terrible situation then we must approach the quran properly or we will remain as we are or get worse as time passes.

Imran khan has understood the concept much better than mullaans and I wish he succeeds in taking us near about riyaasate madina. Any mullaan who opposes his approach must show ability to lead us better or remain quiet and let him work towards riyaasate madina. All haraami politicians must also stay out of his way or they too will be crushed by sensible people just like mullaans. It is because riyaasate madina is the most powerful idea and a project well worth working for. We should not let haraami people be they mullaans or politicians or money lenders spoil things for humanity.
 
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Wake up Pak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The Islamic calendar has nothing to do with Islam. How can you move back months11 days every year? The majority of the so-called Islamic calendar has months related to the event or season. For example, Rabiul Awwal and Rabbiul Saani mean spring the first and spring the second. How in the world these months can be in the winter, summer, or autumn?
Our whole worldly systems run on the solar calendar which is pretty accurate and the Quran has also emphasized it.
If anyone has a better explanation please do share it.
 
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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The Islamic calendar has nothing to do with Islam. How can you move back months11 days every year? The majority of the so-called Islamic calendar has months related to the event or season. For example, Rabiul Awwal and Rabbiul Saani mean spring the first and spring the second. How in the world these months can be in the winter, summer, or autumn?
Our whole worldly systems run on the Lunar calendar which is pretty accurate and the Quran has also emphasized it.
If anyone has a better explanation please do share it.

azeezam wake up pak sb, you mean solar not lunar.

regards and all the best.
 
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