which of above mentioned sect you belong to?
Quranists: Why only humans were sent with a message and not angels?
- Thread starter observer-x
- Start date
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
I don't believe in Namaz. At one time, I used to perform Namaz 5 times a day, then I started learning the Quran and found out that Salat is not Namaz. And if Allah wanted us to perform the Namaz he would have given the detail in the Quran.
Do you perform Namaz? Can you give me the details of how to perform Namaz from your Ahadith?
Islamabadiya
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
My knowledge on as far as proving that namaz is to be performed the way we Muslims perform as per Quran is limited, but again not everything was mentioned in Quran, Hadith was for this very reason but I do agree with you that Hadith authenticity on some occasions is not 100%
I do namaz just as rest of all Muslims do
So do you do any Ibadas like zakat fasting huj Quran Tilawat etc ? Or is it just namaz that you disagree with
What’s your view on alcohol consumption
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Fasting, Zakat, Hajj, etc. are not Ibada. Nowhere in the Quran does it say that these practices are Ibada.
I do not fast for 30 days, as in the Quran it says for a limited number of days.
Zakat is not 2.5%. Allah would have mentioned paying 2.5% Zakat in the Quran.
Also, 2.5% of Zakat is not even mentioned in the ahadith books either.
There is Hajj, but the way Muslims perform Hajj is not in the Quran.
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Islamabadiya
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
what about 5 pillars of islam?
wow, you mustt have a mentor or role model, not easy for a conventional muslim to so much chnage from all the stuff taught to us by our elders
in you opinion hadith ijmah etc has 0 relevance or value?
zakat is zakat but i dont agree when people just pay it on gold and not rest of savings, doesnt make sense
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
The 5 pillars of Islam are not mentioned in the Quran also.
It was a tough journey to leave behind traditional Islam and just follow the Quran alone. Even my family members raised questions, but I have decided after learning the Quran that it is complete and detailed, so why do we have to look into other books of Ahadith, etc?
The Muslims believe in the Quran, but not the message of the Quran.
Here are a few verses of the Quran for you to ponder upon. observer-x you too.
69:40] This (Quran) is the utterance of an honorable messenger. [69:41] Not the utterance of a poet; rarely do you believe. [69:42] Nor the utterance of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed. [69:43] A revelation from the Lord of the universe. [69:44] Had he uttered any other teachings. [69:45] We would have punished him. [69:46] We would have stopped the revelations to him. [69:47] None of you could have helped him.
[17:73] They almost diverted you from the revelations we have given you. They wanted you to fabricate something else, in order to consider you a friend. [17:74] If it were not that we strengthened you, you almost leaned towards them just a little bit. [17:75] Had you done that, we would have doubled the retribution for you in this life, and after death, and you would have found no one to help you against us.
Muhammad the messenger had only a single mission, which was to deliver the message.
[16:82] If they still turn away, then your sole mission is the clear delivery (of the message).
5:99] The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message, and GOD knows everything you declare and everything you conceal.
[5:92] You shall obey GOD, and you shall obey the messenger, and beware. If you turn away, then know that the sole duty of our messenger is to deliver the message efficiently.
“Shall I then seek a Judge other than Allah? When it is He Who has revealed to you the Book fully detailed?” (Qur'an 6:114)
"And We have revealed the Book to you which has clear explanation of everything, and a guidance, mercy and good news for those who submit." (Qur'an 16:89)
"Say, ‘I do not say to you that I have treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I tell you that I am an angel. I only follow what is revealed to me.’ " (Qur’an 6:50)
"We have sent down to you a Book containing your message. Do you not understand?" (Qur'an 21:10)
"We have brought them a Scripture - We have explained it on the basis of knowledge - as guidance and mercy for those who believe." (Qur’an 7:52)
"Should We treat the ones who have surrendered the same as those who are criminals? What is wrong with you, how do you judge? Or do you have another book which you study? In it you find whatever you wish to find?" (Qur’an 68:36-38)
Dear observer x sb, you are trying to say, Allah sent human prophets and messengers because the message sent was for human beings not angels. In that case why Allah sent men prophets and messengers instead of both men and women? It is because men cannot be guides for women the way you people understand the issue of guidance.
Similarly why Allah sent messages to his prophets and messengers through angels when angels are not human beings according to you people? This is why I said logic has to remain consistent through and through otherwise it breaks down. This is why I suggest you learn the quran by taking indisputable real world realities as basis and once you know the quran that way then you can look through other human produced sources to judge their truth or falsehood in light of that understanding of things otherwise you will remain confused all your life about the quran and hadith therefore about islam.
regards and all best.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Agreed. You're good so far.
What do you mean you people? You mean mainstream muslims? You're claiming you're now another deviant sect?
This thread covers the same concept mentioned in Quran (6:9):
وَلَوْ جَعَلْنَـٰهُ مَلَكًۭا لَّجَعَلْنَـٰهُ رَجُلًۭا وَلَلَبَسْنَا عَلَيْهِم مَّا يَلْبِسُونَ
And if We had made him [i.e., the messenger] an angel, We would have made him [appear as] a man, and We would have covered them with that in which they cover themselves [i.e., confusion and doubt].
blah blah blah of deviant sect.
We only follow pious predecessors first if we don't understand anything and refer to hadith for more clarification.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Every ahl ul kitab has sects, even polytheists with their religions have sects. You create a political party you get factions of that party created in few years. Its human nature.
Now in Islam when is sect problematic? When any sect goes against the core teachings. Concept of Allah and his attributes, Muhammad SAW and his teachings, Quran, Unseen like HereAfter, life of grave/ barzakh or jannah, jahannam. Angels etc.
All the differences in secondary items are not sects they're just varieties of understanding of the same message.
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Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
If anyone who follows a particular sect is denying the Quran.
Did Nabi Kareem or Ashaba follow any sect?
3:103 And hold fast to the rope of God, altogether, and do not become divided. And remember God's blessings upon you; how you were enemies, and He reconciled your hearts, and by His grace you became brethren. And you were on the brink of a pit of fire, and He saved you from it. God thus clarifies His revelations for you, so that you may be guided
6:159 Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only
to Allah; then He will inform them about what they used to do.
30:31 Turning towards Him—and be conscious of Him, and perform the prayer, and do not be of the idolaters
30:32 Of those who divided their religion, and became sects; each faction pleased with what they have
Dear observer x sb, you have very wrong ideas about actual islam. As I explained for you already islam is not a religion and islam is anti religion and secularism. To find out why that is the case, you will have to read through my provided explanations about things. You are merely responding to posts just for sake of registering your response without any substance that could make sense.
It is wrong to believe that majority of people is right or wrong without any solid reference point. You keep saying sectarian people are majority and people like me are a minority therefore I am wrong. Your this line of reasoning is flawed because it does not work therefore it is wrong. For example, look at human population in the world, it is about 8 billion. How many of them are muslims? Only a minority. Even people who say they are christians number more than people who say they are muslims so who is right and who is wrong and why?
So the solid criterion is only right is right and wrong is wrong. This is why the question, what is right and how do we human beings know it is right? The answer is not because the quran says it is right is or old testament says it is right or new testament says it is right or granth sb says it is right or avesta says it is right or vedas say it is right etc etc etc.
The criterion has to be real world realities as I have point them out repeatedly and any alleged God sent scripture which proves itself right in light of real world realities. Once we have this criterion only and only then we can use the scripture as basis for judging all the rest of sources of information. This is why the quran itself tells us it is the criterion for judging the truth about information in other alleged God sent scriptures. Anything in them which is validated by the quran can be accepted and anything which goes against the quran can be rejected.
This is why any information in hadis books or history book or science books or philosophy books etc etc can be accepted if it is in line with the quran and rest can be rejected. This is why even all the quran and hadis translations and interpretations are be rejected which are invalidated by the quran by accepting only those which are validated by the quran. So there is no concept of majority or minority in islam and quran but there are rules instead whereby something is to be accepted or rejected.
So you can see for yourself whether you are right or wrong if you have prepared yourself purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accepting and acting upon purpose based proper guidance of Allah for mankind purposefully properly or not.
Hopefully this short explanation will help you take the right direction for your reasoning.
regards and all the best.
