observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Same here. Don't be surprised.
This is interesting. What exists?
Its where you get stuck not us. We have secondary literature to explain that.
Religion, Philosophy & Reason
- Thread starter Wake up Pak
- Start date
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
How do you read? You have restrictions on reading too. Don't read in Arabic, don't read tafseer. Don't memorize. Don't read for reward even though its word of Allah and millions are huffaz.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
So Allah meant someone else and NOT Muhammad SAW when Allah said Messenger?
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
When we tell people that 'we believe the Quran alone is all we need
They will respond by claiming we have denied the sunna of the messenger because God says "obey God and the messenger" in the Quran
And they claim that 'obey God' refers to the Quran, and 'obey the messenger' with the books of Hadith and Sunna
So they believe 'obey God and the messenger' is to follow two different sources.
So let's study the phrase 'obey God and the messenger' from a Quranic point of view
The first Observation: The Quran always says 'obey God and the messenger'.
Never does it say 'obey the prophet' or 'obey Muhammad'.
It is always 'obey God and the messenger'
So it is important to understand what the term 'messenger' (Rasool) means.
And why God did not say 'obey the prophet (nabi)'?
Muhammad had two statuses: The status of NUBUWA (prophethood) And the status of RASOOL (messenger)
The status of NUBUWA - the word NUBUWA means 'high or elevated place'.
This means that God has chosen Muhammad, out of all the humans, to communicate with him certain news, prophecies, etc.
So the status of NUBUWA (prophet) means that a human being is communicating with God.
The status of RASOOL - God tells us the status of RASOOL in the Quran:
(5:67) O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not delivered His message...
We see that God clearly tells us the duty of the messenger is to deliver the message of God
God also says: (24:54) ...there is nothing upon the messenger except the clear delivery...
This teaches us that the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message to the people
So if God did not give Muhammad the 'message', then he would not be called 'messenger' (Rasool).
So God calls him 'Rasool because Muhammad is carrying the 'message'.
What is this message that Muhammad carried? The messenger himself answers this in the Quran:
(6:19) ...this Quran has inspired me to deliver it to you and whoever it reaches...
All these verses teach us that the duty of a messenger is to deliver the message.
Muhammad - the messenger - is required to send us the Quran
So when God says "obey the messenger" we are essentially obeying the 'message' itself
Another observation: God says in the Quran (4:80) "Whoever obeys the messenger, has obeyed God..."
This means when we obey the messenger - the message - the Quran, we have in reality obeyed God
All these verses teach us that 'obey God and the messenger' is essentially obeying ONE source - the Quran
Let's assume that the Quran tells us "obey God" without mentioning obeying the messenger. How would we do that?
This would mean that God Himself would have to come to earth and give us the Quran directly
This of course is illogical
This is why we are to 'obey God and the messenger' - because God gave Muhammad 'the message' which makes him a messenger
And the messenger is required to deliver it to humanity.
So this is what 'obey God and the messenger' means from the Quran.
"Obey God and the messenger" is essentially ONE source - the Quran.
We obey the messenger because he has the 'message
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
I'd like to hear from Citizen X on this. Not some copy paste.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Please provide us with secondary sources that explain how to perform Namaz.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
You are so dumb that even if we explain in detail you will still act like a total moron.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Man up and read; it might open your dead brain.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Don't be naive. You know how we pray. And you probably have prayed that way too some part of your life.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
If you do, then man up and explain the details of Namaz. I know you dumbo can not even prove it, because you blindly follow the Mushrik Mullahs and their books.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Wake up Pak you act very silly some time. I like chatting with you when you sound sane.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
f you do, then man up and explain the details of Namaz. I know you dumbo can not even prove it, because you blindly follow the Mushrik Mullahs and their books.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Told you its time for your medicine today, come back tomorrow after taking good rest.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
It means you are a liar, a deceiver, and a hypocrite who doesn't know the basics of the Quran
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
No thats where you become Quran denying mushriks, because the Quran over and over and over says not to follow or obey anything other than the Quran.
18:27 You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.
77:50 So in which hadith after it will they believe ?
6:114 Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Just more lies and bongis by the mushrik zindeeq with no basis in reality.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
How do you read? Or you have no answer which is fine too.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
