Muḥammad ibn Yūsuf al-Firabrī : The Unknown Man On Whose Shoulders Traditional Islam Stands On.

[Wake up Pak]

I see what you're trying to do — posting a video clip about “religious intolerance” in response to a discussion about Qur’an verses and Hadith.

Let’s be clear:

- This is not a debate about social behavior.
- This is not about general kindness or tolerance.
- This is a direct theological discussion about the legacy of the Prophet (PBUH), the authenticity of Hadith, and the meaning of key Qur’anic verses.

Posting a random social commentary video to shift the conversation is not intellectual engagement. It’s an attempt to change the topic because the arguments raised against you and Citizen X are too strong to refute directly.

Let’s get back to the issue:​

• You mocked the Kaaba as a “man-made cube.”
• You dismissed Hadith using flawed arguments already addressed.
• You and Citizen X have been challenged with direct Qur’anic evidence, historical facts, and context — and now you respond with memes, tweets, and moral lectures?

I am not falling for these diversion tactics.

This forum is not your personal stage for deflective theatrics. If you have a real counterargument — based on Qur’an, Sunnah, or scholarship — present it. Otherwise, posting emotional distractions only shows the bankruptcy of your position.

Let’s keep this discussion where it belongs:
On the truth, not Twitter clips.

There are no diversion tactics, but she is quoting the facts. Even in today's day & age, if I were to go against the traditionalist mullahs in Pakistan, they would have me arrested or killed because I have a different understanding of the Quran, and I do not follow the man-made books which contain contradictions and insults to the Prophet Mohammad.

 

[عؔلی خان]

So, wherever you are, your face should be towards Masjid Al Haram? As per your interpretation, it means that even if you are walking, your face should be at Masjid Al Haram? Does it make any sense?

Thank you for proving — once again — that this is not about sincere inquiry or “Qur’anic reflection.” It’s about ridicule.

You said:

“So wherever you are, your face should be towards Masjid al-Haram? Even if you are walking?”

Are you serious — or just trying to be funny?

Let’s clear this up for anyone who may be misled by your sarcasm:

What does 2:144​

“So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you are, turn your faces toward it.”
— Surah Al-Baqarah (2:144)

This verse refers clearly and exclusively to the direction of prayer (Salah) — not to walking, working, or doing cartwheels facing the Kaaba. Nobody said we need to tilt our heads toward Makkah while walking down the street. That’s not scholarship. That’s mockery.


And let’s not forget: you are the one who earlier called the Kaaba “a man-made cube of cement and iron” and implied bowing to it is shirk. So now that the verse clearly states it's Allah’s command, you’re trying to laugh it off with sarcasm?

So let’s get this straight:​

• First you mock the Qiblah and those who face it.
• Then you get shown the exact verse from the Qur’an commanding it.
• Now you try to twist the meaning and joke about walking direction?

That's not analysis. That's intellectual dishonesty wrapped in a meme attitude.


Reminder for the readers:

• Muslims don’t worship the Kaaba.
• We face it in prayer because Allah commanded us to.
• That’s submission. That’s unity. That’s Islam.

Wake up Pak ,

You, on the other hand, continue to play word games, deflect from your original insult, and dig deeper with jokes instead of engaging with truth.

So here's the actual question now:

Do you obey Allah's command — or mock it when it contradicts your narrative?

Because nobody’s confused about the verse. Only you are pretending to be.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Thank you for proving — once again — that this is not about sincere inquiry or “Qur’anic reflection.” It’s about ridicule.

You said:




Are you serious — or just trying to be funny?

Let’s clear this up for anyone who may be misled by your sarcasm:

What does 2:144​

“So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you are, turn your faces toward it.”
— Surah Al-Baqarah (2:144)

This verse refers clearly and exclusively to the direction of prayer (Salah) — not to walking, working, or doing cartwheels facing the Kaaba. Nobody said we need to tilt our heads toward Makkah while walking down the street. That’s not scholarship. That’s mockery.


And let’s not forget: you are the one who earlier called the Kaaba “a man-made cube of cement and iron” and implied bowing to it is shirk. So now that the verse clearly states it's Allah’s command, you’re trying to laugh it off with sarcasm?

So let’s get this straight:​

• First you mock the Qiblah and those who face it.
• Then you get shown the exact verse from the Qur’an commanding it.
• Now you try to twist the meaning and joke about walking direction?

That's not analysis. That's intellectual dishonesty wrapped in a meme attitude.


Reminder for the readers:

• Muslims don’t worship the Kaaba.
• We face it in prayer because Allah commanded us to.
• That’s submission. That’s unity. That’s Islam.

Wake up Pak ,

You, on the other hand, continue to play word games, deflect from your original insult, and dig deeper with jokes instead of engaging with truth.

So here's the actual question now:

Do you obey Allah's command — or mock it when it contradicts your narrative?

Because nobody’s confused about the verse. Only you are pretending to be.

This verse does not imply that you must face Masjid al-Haram. As I have mentioned before, the Kaaba is a man-made structure and holds no significance in Islam according to the Quran. If you are bowing and prostrating toward a stone structure, you may be committing Shirk.

 

[عؔلی خان]

There are no diversion tactics, but she is quoting the facts. Even in today's day & age, if I were to go against the traditionalist mullahs in Pakistan, they would have me arrested or killed because I have a different understanding of the Quran, and I do not follow the man-made books which contain contradictions and insults to the Prophet Mohammad.

So now you’ve moved from mockery of the Kaaba to conspiracy theories and martyr narratives? Let’s unpack this calmly:


You said:

“I do not follow the man-made books which contain contradictions and insults to the Prophet Mohammad.”

That statement right there is the height of irony. You call Hadith literature "man-made books" — yet spend your time quoting anonymous blogs, YouTube personalities, and tweets with no isnād, no chain of scholarship, and no qualification.

Let’s clarify a few things:​

1. The Hadith corpus was:
   
   
   • Preserved with rigorous isnād (chains of narration),
   • Scrutinized for authenticity over centuries,
   • Protected through the same scholarly institutions that preserved the Qur'an’s recitation and grammar.
2. No one is saying every Hadith is equal. That’s why we have Sahih, Da‘if, Mutawatir, Mursal — an entire science you have yet to engage with seriously.
3. Your claim of "contradictions and insults" is vague, lazy, and conveniently repeated with no evidence — just slogans. And calling the books of Bukhari, Muslim, and others "insults to the Prophet" is not only misleading — it’s deeply disrespectful to 1,400 years of scholarship that gave us the very Qur’an you hold up.

You also said:​

"If I go against traditionalist mullahs in Pakistan, I could be arrested or killed..."

That may play well on Twitter, but here’s the truth:

This forum is full of people engaging you respectfully — challenging your claims with evidence, context, and reason. Nobody is calling for violence. In fact, the only thing being “attacked” is your argument — and it’s collapsing under the weight of facts.


So let’s keep it simple:


- You made claims.
- You got challenged with direct Qur’anic verses.
- You avoided, mocked, and now played the victim.


That’s not how serious discussion works.


If you believe you’re following the Qur’an, then answer the verses directly — without dodging, emotional theatrics, or blaming “mullahs” for being asked simple questions about Islam.

Let the readers see who is standing on knowledge — and who is hiding behind hashtags.

 

[Wake up Pak]

So now you’ve moved from mockery of the Kaaba to conspiracy theories and martyr narratives? Let’s unpack this calmly:


You said:



That statement right there is the height of irony. You call Hadith literature "man-made books" — yet spend your time quoting anonymous blogs, YouTube personalities, and tweets with no isnād, no chain of scholarship, and no qualification.

Let’s clarify a few things:​

1. The Hadith corpus was:
   
   
   • Preserved with rigorous isnād (chains of narration),
   • Scrutinized for authenticity over centuries,
   • Protected through the same scholarly institutions that preserved the Qur'an’s recitation and grammar.
2. No one is saying every Hadith is equal. That’s why we have Sahih, Da‘if, Mutawatir, Mursal — an entire science you have yet to engage with seriously.
3. Your claim of "contradictions and insults" is vague, lazy, and conveniently repeated with no evidence — just slogans. And calling the books of Bukhari, Muslim, and others "insults to the Prophet" is not only misleading — it’s deeply disrespectful to 1,400 years of scholarship that gave us the very Qur’an you hold up.

You also said:​

That may play well on Twitter, but here’s the truth:

This forum is full of people engaging you respectfully — challenging your claims with evidence, context, and reason. Nobody is calling for violence. In fact, the only thing being “attacked” is your argument — and it’s collapsing under the weight of facts.


So let’s keep it simple:


- You made claims.
- You got challenged with direct Qur’anic verses.
- You avoided, mocked, and now played the victim.


That’s not how serious discussion works.


If you believe you’re following the Qur’an, then answer the verses directly — without dodging, emotional theatrics, or blaming “mullahs” for being asked simple questions about Islam.

Let the readers see who is standing on knowledge — and who is hiding behind hashtags.

Don't dance around the issue by repeating the same points. I have shared my understanding of the Quranic verses, but you have yet to answer a simple question about Namaz. How do you perform the Namaz according to the Quran or your man-made fabricated books, the Ahadith?
Find me a single verse from the Quran that says you have to face the Kaaba to perform the Namaz?

 

[عؔلی خان]

This verse does not imply that you must face Masjid al-Haram. As I have mentioned before, the Kaaba is a man-made structure and holds no significance in Islam according to the Quran. If you are bowing and prostrating toward a stone structure, you may be committing Shirk.

Let’s not pretend anymore. This isn’t about “reflection” or “honest difference.” Your own words now leave no doubt:

“The Kaaba is a man-made structure and holds no significance in Islam according to the Quran.”
“If you are bowing and prostrating toward a stone structure, you may be committing shirk.”

Let’s unpack that, because you’ve just accused the Prophet Muhammad (PUBH) and the entire Muslim Ummah — 1,400+ years of scholars, companions, and sincere believers — of committing shirk.

So let’s be absolutely clear:
​

• The Kaaba was built by Prophet Ibrahim (A.S.) and his son Ismail (A.S.) as commanded by Allah.

“And [mention] when We designated for Abraham the site of the House...” (22:26)

• The Qur’an explicitly commands facing the Kaaba:

“So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram…” (2:144)

• The Prophet (PBUH) faced the Kaaba in prayer — by divine instruction, not tradition.

To imply that this is “shirk” is to accuse the Qur’an itself of commanding shirk. That is not just ignorance — it’s blasphemous inversion of Islamic belief.

Let’s talk logic:

Yes, the Kaaba is a “man-made structure” — just like the Qur’an was written on “man-made parchment,” or the Masjid was built from “man-made bricks.”


But the command came from Allah.


We don’t worship the Kaaba. We obey the command to unite in prayer toward it. It’s not the structure that’s sacred — it’s the obedience to Allah that makes it sacred.


To say otherwise is to conflate physical material with theological devotion — the same straw man argument Islamophobes use against Muslims.

Now let’s ask:​

• Are you more enlightened than the Sahabah who stood behind the Prophet (PBUH) in Salah?
• Do you understand Islam better than scholars like Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Al-Shafi‘i, or Ahmad ibn Hanbal — all of whom accepted the Kaaba as Qiblah?
• Or do you seriously believe they were all “misguided mushriks”?

Because that’s the logical consequence of your claim.

Reminder for readers:​

This is what happens when memes replace methodology, and arrogance replaces adab. This is not reform — it’s rejection. It’s not “back to the Qur’an” — it’s cherry-picking what fits and discarding what doesn’t.


You can disagree respectfully. But once you accuse the entire Ummah of shirk, and claim the Kaaba has no value, you’ve walked far off the path.


Wake up Pak

So the real question is now this:

Do you stand with the command of Allah in 2:144 — or do you mock it as “stone structure worship”?

Your answer will tell everyone all they need to know.

 

[Wake up Pak]

• The Kaaba was built by Prophet Ibrahim (A.S.) and his son Ismail (A.S.) as commanded by Allah.

“And [mention] when We designated for Abraham the site of the House...” (22:26)

• The Qur’an explicitly commands facing the Kaaba:

“So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram…” (2:144)

• The Prophet (PBUH) faced the Kaaba in prayer — by divine instruction, not tradition.

Why do you always quote the partial verse? Is there something you are trying to hide or to convey your fabricated Islam?

 

[عؔلی خان]

Find me a single verse from the Quran that says you have to face the Kaaba to perform the Namaz?

Let’s go ahead and address that — again — with clarity, for everyone’s benefit.


“So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you are, turn your faces toward it…”
— Surah Al-Baqarah (2:144)

This verse was revealed precisely to change the Qiblah direction in prayer. The Prophet (PBUH) and Sahabah were previously facing Jerusalem, and Allah explicitly commanded them to now face the Kaaba — while praying.

You keep saying:

“Where does it say you have to face it for Namaz?”

Let’s break this down.

The Qur’an Doesn’t Repeat the Obvious

• The context of 2:144 and the surrounding verses is Salah (prayer).
• The command isn’t “face the Kaaba while jogging” — it’s about the ritual act of turning during prayer.
• The Prophet (PBUH) acted on this in the middle of congregational Salah — and the companions followed without debate.
• This is not a hidden interpretation — it's the ijma‘ (consensus) of the Ummah.

So yes, the Qur’an says to face the Kaaba — and every Muslim from the Prophet (PBUH) till now has known that it refers to Salah.


---

Your Question Exposes the Problem​

You demand a verse showing how to perform every part of Salah — yet:

• The Qur’an mentions Salah over 700 times, but never gives you:
  
  
  • Number of rak‘at
  • Position of sujood, ruku‘, tashahhud
  • What to recite in each unit
  • Timing for Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, Isha

Are we to believe Allah repeated “establish prayer” dozens of times, but forgot to tell us how?

No — the Messenger (PBUH) showed us how, and that’s exactly what the Qur’an says he was sent to do:


“We sent the Reminder to you [O Prophet], so you may explain to people what was revealed to them…”
— Surah An-Nahl (16:44)


---

You Call Hadith “Fabricated Books”? Let’s Talk Sources​

You trust YouTube posts, Twitter memes, and pseudo-intellectual blog rants — but dismiss 1,400 years of transmitted, verified hadith sciences?

Even non-Muslim historians marvel at the isnād system — something no other religious tradition has preserved.


Meanwhile, your position boils down to:

• Reject all known Salah practices
• Invent metaphorical meanings for bowing, sujood, qiblah
• Insult every Muslim who follows the Prophet ﷺ

That’s not “returning to the Qur’an.” That’s tearing down the entire religion while claiming moral high ground.

---

Yes, the Qur’an tells us to face the Kaaba.

No, it doesn’t give you instruction manuals for Salah — because Allah assigned that task to His Messenger.

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a beautiful example…” (33:21)

You reject that example — not because you love the Qur’an more — but because you want to replace submission with intellectual pride.


So again:

Do you accept Allah’s command to face the Kaaba in prayer — or do you reject it because it came through the Messenger?

That’s the real question. And everyone can now see your answer.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Let’s go ahead and address that — again — with clarity, for everyone’s benefit.


“So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you are, turn your faces toward it…”
— Surah Al-Baqarah (2:144)

This verse was revealed precisely to change the Qiblah direction in prayer. The Prophet (PBUH) and Sahabah were previously facing Jerusalem, and Allah explicitly commanded them to now face the Kaaba — while praying.

You keep saying:




Let’s break this down.

The Qur’an Doesn’t Repeat the Obvious

• The context of 2:144 and the surrounding verses is Salah (prayer).
• The command isn’t “face the Kaaba while jogging” — it’s about the ritual act of turning during prayer.
• The Prophet (PBUH) acted on this in the middle of congregational Salah — and the companions followed without debate.
• This is not a hidden interpretation — it's the ijma‘ (consensus) of the Ummah.

So yes, the Qur’an says to face the Kaaba — and every Muslim from the Prophet (PBUH) till now has known that it refers to Salah.


---

Your Question Exposes the Problem​

You demand a verse showing how to perform every part of Salah — yet:

• The Qur’an mentions Salah over 700 times, but never gives you:
  
  
  • Number of rak‘at
  • Position of sujood, ruku‘, tashahhud
  • What to recite in each unit
  • Timing for Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, Isha

No — the Messenger (PBUH) showed us how, and that’s exactly what the Qur’an says he was sent to do:


“We sent the Reminder to you [O Prophet], so you may explain to people what was revealed to them…”
— Surah An-Nahl (16:44)


---

You Call Hadith “Fabricated Books”? Let’s Talk Sources​

You trust YouTube posts, Twitter memes, and pseudo-intellectual blog rants — but dismiss 1,400 years of transmitted, verified hadith sciences?

Even non-Muslim historians marvel at the isnād system — something no other religious tradition has preserved.


Meanwhile, your position boils down to:

• Reject all known Salah practices
• Invent metaphorical meanings for bowing, sujood, qiblah
• Insult every Muslim who follows the Prophet ﷺ

That’s not “returning to the Qur’an.” That’s tearing down the entire religion while claiming moral high ground.

---

Yes, the Qur’an tells us to face the Kaaba.

No, it doesn’t give you instruction manuals for Salah — because Allah assigned that task to His Messenger.

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allah you have a beautiful example…” (33:21)

You reject that example — not because you love the Qur’an more — but because you want to replace submission with intellectual pride.


So again:

Do you accept Allah’s command to face the Kaaba in prayer — or do you reject it because it came through the Messenger?

That’s the real question. And everyone can now see your answer.

Since you failed to convince anyone on how to perform the Namaz from the Quran, let's see if you could give details about how to perform the Namaz from Ahadith.

 

[عؔلی خان]

Why do you always quote the partial verse? Is there something you are trying to hide or to convey your fabricated Islam?

You accuse others of quoting partial verses? Let’s post the full one, then.


"And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], 'Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.'"
— Surah Al-Baqarah (2:127)


Let’s walk through this entire verse together.

• Who built the Kaaba?
  Prophet Ibrahim (A.S.) and his son Ismail (A.S.)
• Was it their personal idea?
  No — it was by divine command.
• Did they claim ownership?
  No — they made du‘a to Allah humbly, asking Him to accept it.
• So why is this important?
  Because you earlier called the Kaaba a “man-made cube made of cement and iron” and implied Muslims were committing shirk for bowing in its direction.

But now you’re nitpicking over whether a verse was quoted in full — when you blatantly denied its divine origin altogether earlier?

---

Let’s recap your shifting positions:

• You mocked Muslims for facing a “man-made cube.”
• You sarcastically asked if we should face it while walking.
• You denied the significance of the Kaaba, claiming it has “no place in Islam.”
• You implied facing it was shirk.

Now, when shown clear Qur’anic evidence, you panic and accuse others of “partial quoting” — hoping people forget what you actually said.


But I didn’t forget. And now everyone else can see it clearly, too.


---

If quoting the Qur’an offends you only when it destroys your narrative, maybe the issue isn’t with others’ quoting.

It’s with your own contradictions.

I’ll keep quoting — fully and faithfully. And I’ll keep holding you accountable for every time you twist the truth under the label of “pure Islam.”


The Kaaba was built by Prophets, honored in the Qur’an, and appointed as Qiblah by Allah Himself.


You can’t rewrite that — no matter how many sarcastic posts or pseudo-intellectual rants you throw at it.​

 

[عؔلی خان]

Since you failed to convince anyone on how to perform the Namaz from the Quran, let's see if you could give details about how to perform the Namaz from Ahadith.

You keep moving the goalpost because the last one collapsed on you.

You mocked:

• The Kaaba — calling it “cement and iron”
• Facing Qiblah — claiming it’s “shirk”
• Hadith — calling them “man-made fabricated books”

And when each of those was refuted with clear Qur’an verses, prophetic practice, and historical fact, now suddenly you pivot and say:

“Since you failed to convince anyone on how to perform Namaz from the Qur’an, let's see if you could give details about how to perform the Namaz from Ahadith.”

First of all, your statement is just wishful thinking. Many reading this thread already see through the games. You’re not winning minds — you’re exhausting them.


Second, your tactic is obvious:
You don’t want answers. You want to distract, derail, and force a never-ending quiz show — hoping others will tire before you run out of bad-faith questions.


But if you truly want a Hadith-based explanation of the prayer — I’ll give it.

The Prophet (PBUH) taught the prayer in both words​

The Prophet (PBUH) said:


“Pray as you have seen me praying.”
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 631

His companions saw, learned, and passed on the exact method of prayer:

• Takbir (Allahu Akbar)
• Standing (Qiyam)
• Bowing (Ruku‘)
• Prostration (Sujud)
• Testimony (Tashahhud)
• Salam

All taught by the Prophet, practiced daily by the Sahabah, and preserved meticulously through Hadith with isnād (chains of narration) — a system unparalleled in historical transmission.

This is not based on one culture, sect, or “mullah.” It's a global, generational consensus — practiced by billions for 14 centuries.


---

But here’s the real issue:​

You don’t actually want to learn how Muslims pray.
You want to undermine prayer itself.

Because when you say, “Show it from the Qur’an only,” you're implying the Prophet (PBUH) didn’t show us anything. That his role was irrelevant. That the Qur’an needs no lived context, no Sunnah, no interpretation — just you, a PDF, and a Wi-Fi connection.


But Allah didn’t say that.


“And We sent down the Reminder to you [O Prophet] so that you may explain to people what was revealed to them.”
— Surah An-Nahl (16:44)


So here’s a question for you, Wake up Pak:

If the Prophet didn’t explain the Qur’an…
If his prayer, fasting, Hajj, and rulings don’t matter…

Then what exactly was he sent to do?

Don’t answer with copy-paste slogans. Show us your real belief.
Because this isn’t a debate anymore — this is exposure.​

 

[Wake up Pak]

You keep moving the goalpost because the last one collapsed on you.

You mocked:

• The Kaaba — calling it “cement and iron”
• Facing Qiblah — claiming it’s “shirk”
• Hadith — calling them “man-made fabricated books”

And when each of those was refuted with clear Qur’an verses, prophetic practice, and historical fact, now suddenly you pivot and say:



First of all, your statement is just wishful thinking. Many reading this thread already see through the games. You’re not winning minds — you’re exhausting them.


Second, your tactic is obvious:
You don’t want answers. You want to distract, derail, and force a never-ending quiz show — hoping others will tire before you run out of bad-faith questions.


But if you truly want a Hadith-based explanation of the prayer — I’ll give it.

The Prophet (PBUH) taught the prayer in both words​

The Prophet (PBUH) said:


“Pray as you have seen me praying.”
— Sahih al-Bukhari, 631

His companions saw, learned, and passed on the exact method of prayer:

• Takbir (Allahu Akbar)
• Standing (Qiyam)
• Bowing (Ruku‘)
• Prostration (Sujud)
• Testimony (Tashahhud)
• Salam

All taught by the Prophet, practiced daily by the Sahabah, and preserved meticulously through Hadith with isnād (chains of narration) — a system unparalleled in historical transmission.

This is not based on one culture, sect, or “mullah.” It's a global, generational consensus — practiced by billions for 14 centuries.


---

But here’s the real issue:​

You don’t actually want to learn how Muslims pray.
You want to undermine prayer itself.

Because when you say, “Show it from the Qur’an only,” you're implying the Prophet (PBUH) didn’t show us anything. That his role was irrelevant. That the Qur’an needs no lived context, no Sunnah, no interpretation — just you, a PDF, and a Wi-Fi connection.


But Allah didn’t say that.


“And We sent down the Reminder to you [O Prophet] so that you may explain to people what was revealed to them.”
— Surah An-Nahl (16:44)


So here’s a question for you, Wake up Pak:

If the Prophet didn’t explain the Qur’an…
If his prayer, fasting, Hajj, and rulings don’t matter…

Then what exactly was he sent to do?

Don’t answer with copy-paste slogans. Show us your real belief.
Because this isn’t a debate anymore — this is exposure.​

I knew you won't be able to give the details about the Namaz. Since there is no Kaaba to prostrate or bow toward, there is no Namaz.

 

[Citizen X]

You mock tradition, yet offer none. You attack scholars, yet hide behind a pseudonym. And now, you insult entire generations of Muslims — companions included — because it’s easier than engaging honestly.


Let’s unpack the irony.

You say:



But that Qur’an was delivered, taught, practiced, explained, implemented, and safeguarded by the very men you now belittle as “Abu Fulan” and “Dhumkana.” You quote the Qur’an — that they preserved for you. Your entire argument rests on a book compiled, transmitted, and taught by the same people whose legacy you're trying to discredit.

You hide behind internet anonymity, yet dismiss centuries of transmission and rigorous scholarship. Where’s your chain of knowledge? Where’s your isnād? Who taught you Arabic grammar, uṣūl al-tafsīr, or balāghah? How are you interpreting divine scripture with no sanad, no scholarly background, no qualifications, and — let’s be honest — no accountability?

You dismiss:

• Ibn Kathir
• Al-Qurtubi
• Al-Shafi‘i
• Al-Tabari

…yet quote YouTube videos and forum rants as though they hold equal weight.


The Qur’an repeatedly commands:


“Obey Allah and obey the Messenger…” (4:59, 64:12)

That Messenger is Muhammad (PBUH)— not you, not your opinion, and not your private reinterpretation.


You talk about “blind following”? Ironically, what you are doing is blind rejecting — tossing out everything inconvenient, refusing to see 1400 years of scholarly work, and replacing it with your own unchecked thoughts.


And then there’s this gem:



Really? So by your logic, anyone who narrates a verse of the Qur’an has now become the object of worship? By that standard, are you worshipping the Sahaba every time you recite the Qur’an?


That’s not logic. That’s desperation.


And finally, don’t talk about the Prophet lamenting those who abandon the Qur’an — while simultaneously rejecting the very Messenger Allah entrusted with its delivery, explanation, and implementation.


“And We sent down the Reminder to you [O Prophet], so that you may clarify to mankind what was revealed to them.” (Qur’an 16:44)

You want to discard that role, reduce the Messenger to a postman, and reinterpret the entire religion by yourself.


That’s not scholarship.
That’s not submission.
That’s self-prophethood.

What credentials do you hold to confidently override 1,400 years of preserved Islamic tradition?

What authority do you have to claim “hikmah doesn’t mean this” or “the verse doesn’t mean that”?

You’re hiding behind an internet handle, dismissing centuries of scholarship, and yet you demand to be taken seriously?


I follow the Qur’an and the Messenger — because the Qur’an commands it. You follow your own opinions — and call it Islam.​

So basically you got nothing.

1. Failed miserably that somehow Al Frabri was vouched for in his lifetime
2. Failed miserably to prove hadith from Quran
3. Failed again to prove that some how hikmah is your hadith.
4. Got caught lying that Bukhari has 100s of muttawatir hadith
5. Got caught lying again saying no law or fiqh is based on non sahih khabar wahid

So now you have resorted to what only can be best described as emotional rants about oh how some anonymous guy like you on the internet can disrespect my Abu Fulanas and Ibn Dhamkanas how can you disregard the tradition of my ancestors etc etc.

Even though Quranic Ayat were presented in which the Quran also warns against following false tradition and people.

If you are offended by it. I apologize and will not ridicule your scholars any more. But that doesn't mean their work has any value to me because they also rely on external sources outside the Quran.

Here is a crude question for you.

Even if just a drop of urine falls in a bucket of water, would you still consider it pure and good enough to drink it?

 

[عؔلی خان]

You’ve shown your hand — and it’s not about learning. It’s about leveraging a platform for propaganda.

You’re not here for sincere dialogue. You’re here to:

• Push recycled Quranist talking points,
• Ridicule centuries of scholarship under the guise of "critical thinking"

So what is your real game?​

You run around the internet with a pseudonym and copy-paste blog links written in Reddit tone but pretending to be scholarly. You:

• Reduce centuries of scholarship to “Abu Fulans”
• Quote YouTubers, but dismiss Imam al-Shafi‘i
• Demand verses, then ridicule them
• Demand hadith, then insult the collectors
• Demand intellectual debate, then drop analogies like “urine in a bucket”

You’re not defending the Qur’an — you’re attacking everything Allah revealed beyond it, and doing it with a smug smile and sarcastic tone.

And let’s not pretend you’re some brave reformer​

You’re weaponizing Siasat.pk’s popularity, pretending to be a PTI supporter to stay in the moderators’ good books — all while posting articles that subtly, and sometimes openly, mock Islam's foundations.

What you're doing:​

1. Using siasat.pk as a platform not because you love debate — but because it has traffic, reach, and visibility.
   You know this forum is heavily frequented. You know it has PTI-supporting moderators. So you pretend to be one of them — just enough to stay “safe” while spreading your ideas under the radar.
2. Pushing an anti-Sunnah, anti-Hadith campaign disguised as “come back to the Qur’an.”
3. Copying and tweaking headlines from academic sources to boost your SEO footprint.
4. Acting like you've “exposed” something when all you've done is post a string of smug, sarcastic taunts.

​

Let’s look at your “argument” again:​

You say:

“You failed to prove hikmah is hadith…”
“You failed to prove Al-Firabrī was vouched for in his time…”
“Even one drop of urine makes a bucket of water impure…”

This isn’t a refutation. It’s a sleight of hand mixed with mockery.

​

So let’s tell the audience what’s actually going on here:​

You are not just “questioning.”

You are rejecting:

• The Prophet (PBUH) as explainer of the Qur’an
• Hadith sciences
• Tafsir
• Fiqh
• Qiblah
• Salah
• The concept of ijma’
• Even the Sahaba’s understanding of the Qur’an

And you’re doing it all anonymously, hiding behind usernames while pretending to be enlightened and “intellectually free.”

This is not reform. This is erosion.​

We’ve seen this script before:

1. Claim the Qur’an is enough.
2. Strip it of all context, scholarship, and practice.
3. Repackage vague morality as “Islam.”
4. Accuse everyone else of being “mushrik” for following anything outside your personal interpretation.

Meanwhile, you offer:

• No methodology.
• No isnad.
• No consistent usul.
• Just bold fonts, sarcasm, and arrogance.

So no, you haven’t shaken anything.

You’ve just exposed yourself as another voice in the long line of keyboard mujtahids trying to rewrite Islam in comment threads.

You said:

“Even a drop of urine in a bucket makes it impure.”

Nice try.

Here’s a better one for you:

If one guy keeps spitting in a well from which generations drank safely — should we question the water? Or the one spitting?​

 

[Citizen X]

You’ve shown your hand — and it’s not about learning. It’s about leveraging a platform for propaganda.

You’re not here for sincere dialogue. You’re here to:

• Push recycled Quranist talking points,
• Ridicule centuries of scholarship under the guise of "critical thinking"

​

So what is your real game?​

You run around the internet with a pseudonym and copy-paste blog links written in Reddit tone but pretending to be scholarly. You:

• Reduce centuries of scholarship to “Abu Fulans”
• Quote YouTubers, but dismiss Imam al-Shafi‘i
• Demand verses, then ridicule them
• Demand hadith, then insult the collectors
• Demand intellectual debate, then drop analogies like “urine in a bucket”

You’re not defending the Qur’an — you’re attacking everything Allah revealed beyond it, and doing it with a smug smile and sarcastic tone.

And let’s not pretend you’re some brave reformer​

You’re weaponizing Siasat.pk’s popularity, pretending to be a PTI supporter to stay in the moderators’ good books — all while posting articles that subtly, and sometimes openly, mock Islam's foundations.

What you're doing:​

1. Using siasat.pk as a platform not because you love debate — but because it has traffic, reach, and visibility.
   You know this forum is heavily frequented. You know it has PTI-supporting moderators. So you pretend to be one of them — just enough to stay “safe” while spreading your ideas under the radar.
2. Pushing an anti-Sunnah, anti-Hadith campaign disguised as “come back to the Qur’an.”
3. Copying and tweaking headlines from academic sources to boost your SEO footprint.
4. Acting like you've “exposed” something when all you've done is post a string of smug, sarcastic taunts.

​

Let’s look at your “argument” again:​

You say:



This isn’t a refutation. It’s a sleight of hand mixed with mockery.

​

So let’s tell the audience what’s actually going on here:​

You are not just “questioning.”

You are rejecting:

• The Prophet (PBUH) as explainer of the Qur’an
• Hadith sciences
• Tafsir
• Fiqh
• Qiblah
• Salah
• The concept of ijma’
• Even the Sahaba’s understanding of the Qur’an

And you’re doing it all anonymously, hiding behind usernames while pretending to be enlightened and “intellectually free.”

This is not reform. This is erosion.​

We’ve seen this script before:

1. Claim the Qur’an is enough.
2. Strip it of all context, scholarship, and practice.
3. Repackage vague morality as “Islam.”
4. Accuse everyone else of being “mushrik” for following anything outside your personal interpretation.

Meanwhile, you offer:

• No methodology.
• No isnad.
• No consistent usul.
• Just bold fonts, sarcasm, and arrogance.

So no, you haven’t shaken anything.

You’ve just exposed yourself as another voice in the long line of keyboard mujtahids trying to rewrite Islam in comment threads.

You said:




Nice try.

Here’s a better one for you:

If one guy keeps spitting in a well from which generations drank safely — should we question the water? Or the one spitting?​

So once again absolutely nothing other than more emotional rants.