SaadKnight
Senator (1k+ posts)
Hey guys watch both these videos from beginning to end. Changed my mind.......
So, Who's Right? - Shaykh Hasan Ali
- Thread starter SaadKnight
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[MENTION=17022]SaadKnight[/MENTION]:
Maulana Hasan Ali is a GREAT guy, ma sha Allah. He is all about reconciliation and bringing the ummah together. We can have 'ilmi differences with different schools (wahhabi, barelwi, deobandi etc), but the fact of the matter is that we are ALL Sunni.
In all of the material that I have read thus far, I see the most amount of balance in the 'ulama of deoband. While they do defend their position and engage other schools polemically I have NEVER seen them become takfiri and their akabireen continue this marvellous tradition even today.
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same about the other schools who seem more inclined to get emotional and become takfiri while defending their point of view. So much so, that they consider only themselves as Sunnis and everyone else as 'deviants'. In more recent times, I have seen a lot of barelwis and deobandis settle their differences, though, alhamdolillah! Take for example Dr. Tahirul Qadri who doesn't engage in any of the takfiri nonsense that a lot of his fellow barelwis indulge in. That is why I like the man - he defends his point of view by staying in the confines of a muhazzib discussion. Things are so bad, though, amongst other barelwis that they have even started takfir on Tahirul Qadri saheb!
There is TOO MUCH emotionalism amongst the salafis and barelwis. Not that there isn't emotionalism amongst deobandis, but its just too much in the other 2 camps.
Maulana Hasan Ali is a GREAT guy, ma sha Allah. He is all about reconciliation and bringing the ummah together. We can have 'ilmi differences with different schools (wahhabi, barelwi, deobandi etc), but the fact of the matter is that we are ALL Sunni.
In all of the material that I have read thus far, I see the most amount of balance in the 'ulama of deoband. While they do defend their position and engage other schools polemically I have NEVER seen them become takfiri and their akabireen continue this marvellous tradition even today.
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same about the other schools who seem more inclined to get emotional and become takfiri while defending their point of view. So much so, that they consider only themselves as Sunnis and everyone else as 'deviants'. In more recent times, I have seen a lot of barelwis and deobandis settle their differences, though, alhamdolillah! Take for example Dr. Tahirul Qadri who doesn't engage in any of the takfiri nonsense that a lot of his fellow barelwis indulge in. That is why I like the man - he defends his point of view by staying in the confines of a muhazzib discussion. Things are so bad, though, amongst other barelwis that they have even started takfir on Tahirul Qadri saheb!
There is TOO MUCH emotionalism amongst the salafis and barelwis. Not that there isn't emotionalism amongst deobandis, but its just too much in the other 2 camps.
SaadKnight
Senator (1k+ posts)
I am from the same school of thought as the Sheikh i.e. the deobandi school of thought, one o my cousins is a qualified Mufti passed out from Darul-Uloom Karachi.
I used to do criticism on other sects at different times, but never said that anyone is kafir.
But Sheikh Hasan has cleared my mind on how to deal with people of different school of thought (bigsmile)
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Assalam o Alaikum,
Very pleased to know that. May Allah show us the right path, make us follow the right path and at the end take us to the right destination. Ameen.
:jazak::jazak::jazak:
Humi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
JazakAllah Khair for letting me know about this video Saad..:)...I enjoyed it..It was a fresh contrast from the ones you find on youtube where idiotic mullahs and muftis are busy spreading hate and intolerance...
The metaphor of kid, teen and chacha is so true..unfortunately, most people I have met online tend to be in the "chacha" state..good point he is making regarding the slow evolving of religion, such as the hadiths of different hand positions during salah and they should all be expected as we don't know what came last...my dad was giving me the exact same example last week..I thank Allah for blessing me with parents who have taught me tolerance...
I agree with him regarding prioritizing the sources i,e. Quran, sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim etc. but I do not agree with his statement that if I belong to Hanafi, I should follow all of its teachings because of course, every sect. out there has made some mistakes in the interpretation...so if something feels wrong to you, you should research it instead of sticking to what your school of thought recommends..
The metaphor of kid, teen and chacha is so true..unfortunately, most people I have met online tend to be in the "chacha" state..good point he is making regarding the slow evolving of religion, such as the hadiths of different hand positions during salah and they should all be expected as we don't know what came last...my dad was giving me the exact same example last week..I thank Allah for blessing me with parents who have taught me tolerance...
I agree with him regarding prioritizing the sources i,e. Quran, sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim etc. but I do not agree with his statement that if I belong to Hanafi, I should follow all of its teachings because of course, every sect. out there has made some mistakes in the interpretation...so if something feels wrong to you, you should research it instead of sticking to what your school of thought recommends..
I Won't Have Listened But Ur Comments Made Me. Logically Correct Maulanas Are rarE tO finD :D Excellent Lecture B.T.W.
Humi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
yup, if Saad hadn't given me the link, I would not have watched it either as I tend to avoid such videos because most of them have maulanas spewing non-sense only...good find by Saad..
[MENTION=22897]huma.asl[/MENTION]:
It's good to see your willingness to go to the core and try to research things yourself, but having said that are you qualified enough to even do so? Hanafi fiqh (or any other fiqh for that matter) didnt start 5 years ago; it has been around for over a thousand years! What many people don't know is that these traditions are internally whetted and modified so as to come with THE MOST correct and relevant opinion as per the manhaj (methodology).
This is why when you discuss matters of furu' then you see absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between a deobandi, barelwi or any other hanafi in any corner of the world. It is because every school of thought (which is sometimes distastefully called 'sect') has its own methodology and it is THIS methodology that defines what is right or wrong. I will give you an example to make it clear and I apologize if it gets too lengthy for you:
In the Hanafi madhdhab, the operand/word "and" is defined completely differently to the Shafi'i madhdhab. So when we say "Aleph AND huma.asl walked into the room" then this could mean any of the following:
1- Aleph walked into the room first followed by huma.asl
2- huma.asl walked into the room first followed by Aleph
3- Both Aleph and huma.asl walked in at the same time
Basically, to the hanafis the operand "and" only establishes the ACT of walking into the room, but it DOES NOT establish the tarteeb (progression). They have many proofs for this assertion.
Now the Shafi'is state that the operand "and" establishes BOTH the ACT and the PROGRESSION. So if I were to say again that "Aleph and huma.asl walked into the room" then according to them:
1- Aleph walked in first.
2- huma.asl walked in second.
This is why when they will give fatawa based on the verses of the Quran and hadith you will see these differences. For example, the verse of Wudhu (ablution). Although the hanafis think it meritorious to stick to the progression as shown in the verse they state that if one were to forget to wash his face then he can make it up at the end. However, according to the shafi'i the entire wudhu would have to be repeated.
So no opinion is "stronger" than the other except that it is the METHODOLOGY that defines what is stronger or weaker. This whole concept of "which is the stronger opinion out of the 2 or 3 madhdhab" is a COMPLETE fallacy that shows a betrayal of the fundamentals in this matter. I hope this clarifies.
tags: [MENTION=14890]mrk123[/MENTION], [MENTION=22616]mustafvi[/MENTION], [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION], [MENTION=22694]imran1976[/MENTION], [MENTION=17022]SaadKnight[/MENTION], [MENTION=23321]desikuri[/MENTION], [MENTION=23183]Muslimah[/MENTION], [MENTION=11239]muslim01[/MENTION]
It's good to see your willingness to go to the core and try to research things yourself, but having said that are you qualified enough to even do so? Hanafi fiqh (or any other fiqh for that matter) didnt start 5 years ago; it has been around for over a thousand years! What many people don't know is that these traditions are internally whetted and modified so as to come with THE MOST correct and relevant opinion as per the manhaj (methodology).
This is why when you discuss matters of furu' then you see absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between a deobandi, barelwi or any other hanafi in any corner of the world. It is because every school of thought (which is sometimes distastefully called 'sect') has its own methodology and it is THIS methodology that defines what is right or wrong. I will give you an example to make it clear and I apologize if it gets too lengthy for you:
In the Hanafi madhdhab, the operand/word "and" is defined completely differently to the Shafi'i madhdhab. So when we say "Aleph AND huma.asl walked into the room" then this could mean any of the following:
1- Aleph walked into the room first followed by huma.asl
2- huma.asl walked into the room first followed by Aleph
3- Both Aleph and huma.asl walked in at the same time
Basically, to the hanafis the operand "and" only establishes the ACT of walking into the room, but it DOES NOT establish the tarteeb (progression). They have many proofs for this assertion.
Now the Shafi'is state that the operand "and" establishes BOTH the ACT and the PROGRESSION. So if I were to say again that "Aleph and huma.asl walked into the room" then according to them:
1- Aleph walked in first.
2- huma.asl walked in second.
This is why when they will give fatawa based on the verses of the Quran and hadith you will see these differences. For example, the verse of Wudhu (ablution). Although the hanafis think it meritorious to stick to the progression as shown in the verse they state that if one were to forget to wash his face then he can make it up at the end. However, according to the shafi'i the entire wudhu would have to be repeated.
So no opinion is "stronger" than the other except that it is the METHODOLOGY that defines what is stronger or weaker. This whole concept of "which is the stronger opinion out of the 2 or 3 madhdhab" is a COMPLETE fallacy that shows a betrayal of the fundamentals in this matter. I hope this clarifies.
tags: [MENTION=14890]mrk123[/MENTION], [MENTION=22616]mustafvi[/MENTION], [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION], [MENTION=22694]imran1976[/MENTION], [MENTION=17022]SaadKnight[/MENTION], [MENTION=23321]desikuri[/MENTION], [MENTION=23183]Muslimah[/MENTION], [MENTION=11239]muslim01[/MENTION]
i believe that we should keep things simple, there are four classical interpretations out there, you are free to follow any one - We as a layman shouldn't be worrying about the mistakes in the interpretation, it's the job of the school to rectify such mistakes.
regarding the Salafis, they are from within the Ummah and our brothers but not Sunnis.
Humi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
no doubt, if you try looking into things yourselves, it would take too much time and you will probably reach the wrong conclusion...however, there is no harm in looking through the different interpretations if you are in doubt as it is our problem because you can't use the argument that the sect/thought school I followed said it so I went with it in the hereafter if it is some huge issue..
Not to worry, huma.asl, there is ZERO difference on huge issues (what is known as the `aqeedah).
Allah (SWT) will only question on deviation from `aqeedah and not on matters of fiqh. For example, there will be no question on how we prayed witr salah or how many rak'ah of taraweeh we prayed. He will ask us on issues of `aqeedah only.
[MENTION=22694]imran1976[/MENTION]:
While I generally agree with your premise, but you should note that what defines whether a group is out of the fold of Sunnism (ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah) is not based on matters of interpretation of the faith. Salafis/wahhabis interpret and use the same traditions as every other Sunni.
If the salafis/wahhabis were to start deviating in `aqeedah then we could say they are out of Sunnism. However, their deviance on matters of `aqaid with the mainstream is based on articles of faith that are AHAAD and not mutawaatir. For example, salafis reject istighathah (invoking Rasulullah (SAW) directly in dua). While the mainstream opinion is thta this is allowed and mustahhab, you MUST note that in this matter their deviance is not a matter that takes them out of sunnism.
There are perhaps 3-4 things that salafis do that can be argued takes them out of the fold of Sunnism out of which 2 are major issues: (1) anthropomorphism; (2) the issue of talaaq. One remains hopeful that they will someday turn around, in sha Allah.
Allah (SWT) will only question on deviation from `aqeedah and not on matters of fiqh. For example, there will be no question on how we prayed witr salah or how many rak'ah of taraweeh we prayed. He will ask us on issues of `aqeedah only.
[MENTION=22694]imran1976[/MENTION]:
While I generally agree with your premise, but you should note that what defines whether a group is out of the fold of Sunnism (ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah) is not based on matters of interpretation of the faith. Salafis/wahhabis interpret and use the same traditions as every other Sunni.
If the salafis/wahhabis were to start deviating in `aqeedah then we could say they are out of Sunnism. However, their deviance on matters of `aqaid with the mainstream is based on articles of faith that are AHAAD and not mutawaatir. For example, salafis reject istighathah (invoking Rasulullah (SAW) directly in dua). While the mainstream opinion is thta this is allowed and mustahhab, you MUST note that in this matter their deviance is not a matter that takes them out of sunnism.
There are perhaps 3-4 things that salafis do that can be argued takes them out of the fold of Sunnism out of which 2 are major issues: (1) anthropomorphism; (2) the issue of talaaq. One remains hopeful that they will someday turn around, in sha Allah.
SaadKnight
Senator (1k+ posts)
Brother [MENTION=14383]Veila Mast[/MENTION] please take sometime and watch these videos. Better to forget our differences then to fight over popcorn.
SaadKnight
Senator (1k+ posts)
To be honest I have not seen any Molana aur Mufti sahab on youtube that spreads hatred.
I would be extremely thankful to you if you can give some links regarding that so that I can talk to my cousin about it.
Humi
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I have seen a few only..I think I came across them accidentally..after that, I promised myself not to watch such vidoes on YT...lemme see if I can find them as I don't really remember those people's names..
Although I follow the manhaj of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah but I dont regard Salafis as devious. Salafis are our brothers and they are from Ahlus Sunnah as well but Salafis should learn to respect muqalideens as we have proper strong dalails for everything. I regard Barelwis as the most devious form of Ahlus Sunnah and most of them are involved in Bidah and Shirk. Shia's are totally out of the equation as most of the Sunni and Salafi scholars regard them as non muslims (Their Scholars are for sure).
Only Salafis and Deobandis or other non biddati sunnis are the ones currently fighting for Islam around the globe. Only these are the people I have found with sincere love and fikr of deen. InshaAllah all the differences will vanish when Imam Mahdi will come.
Only Salafis and Deobandis or other non biddati sunnis are the ones currently fighting for Islam around the globe. Only these are the people I have found with sincere love and fikr of deen. InshaAllah all the differences will vanish when Imam Mahdi will come.
