International Law Support Hamas use of Indiscriminate Rocket Attacks???

[desan]

 

[Vitamin_C]

Not really no. Palestine is also a signatory to Oslo Accord which specifically states that Palestinian Authority has to reprimand and punish those armed groups that target Israeli civilians.

Under interntaional law what Hamas is doing is not only a war crime but also a crime against humanities. And for Western societies crime against humanity is like Shirk in Islam.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-04.htm

This is sham journalism.

No body deserve to live like people of Gaza but they voted Hamas into power and the only one beneffiting from Hamas are Israeli hardliners.

Instead of building rockets, Palestinians should focus on building universities and create their soft power. When world stops associating them with negativity and terrorism and starts to assocate them with being educated and contributing to the world, Western countries will start siding with them. Even US is a democracy if Palestine builds soft power they could eventually win them over too.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

It seems you are determined to rouse anger of the "old pundits" of the forum.

desan.... terrorist sympathizer .... lols

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Not really no. Palestine is also a signatory to Oslo Accord which specifically states that Palestinian Authority has to reprimand and punish those armed groups that target Israeli civilians.

Under interntaional law what Hamas is doing is not only a war crime but also a crime against humanities. And for Western societies crime against humanity is like Shirk in Islam.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-04.htm

This is sham journalism.

No body deserve to live like people of Gaza but they voted Hamas into power and the only one beneffiting from Hamas are Israeli hardliners.

Instead of building rockets, Palestinians should focus on building universities and create their soft power. When world stops associating them with negativity and terrorism and starts to assocate them with being educated and contributing to the world, Western countries will start siding with them. Even US is a democracy if Palestine builds soft power they could eventually win them over too.

In 2011, there was another resolution against the Israeli wall built illegally on the soil of Palestine. 120 permanent members + 13 out of 14 UN Security Council members voted against it. What is your take on that?

138 Permanent members of UN GA approved establishment of Palestinian State on pre 1967 positions. What type of softer image do you want Palestine to promote, in addition to that, Sir?

+ what is your take on the Israeli nuclear program, for which, there was a resolution passed in 1982 to halt it, but instead Iraq gets bombed out for "alleged" nukes and Iran faces economic sanctions and Libya was totally turned upside down. What sort of moral grounds does Israel have to be still pursuing its nuclear program? Why no one has ever asked Israel to sign on the NPT?

 

[Respect]

Not really no. Palestine is also a signatory to Oslo Accord which specifically states that Palestinian Authority has to reprimand and punish those armed groups that target Israeli civilians.

Under interntaional law what Hamas is doing is not only a war crime but also a crime against humanities. And for Western societies crime against humanity is like Shirk in Islam.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-04.htm

This is sham journalism.

No body deserve to live like people of Gaza but they voted Hamas into power and the only one beneffiting from Hamas are Israeli hardliners.

Instead of building rockets, Palestinians should focus on building universities and create their soft power. When world stops associating them with negativity and terrorism and starts to assocate them with being educated and contributing to the world, Western countries will start siding with them. Even US is a democracy if Palestine builds soft power they could eventually win them over too.

Remember yasir Arafat when he was in power was there peace?. During his last years he was confounded in a building where Israeli forces had surrounded him. Eventually they left but the humiliation that Palestine had to go through.

You can have Gandhi sitting on the seat of leadership in Palestine will make no difference. Israel cannot give Palestine freedom if they do there is always that fear what happens if Palestinians get hold off missiles in replace of sticks and stones and decide to pay Israel a lesson.

 

[arifkarim]

Remember yasir Arafat when he was in power was there peace?. During his last years he was confounded in a building where Israeli forces had surrounded him. Eventually they left but the humiliation that Palestine had to go through.

You can have Gandhi sitting on the seat of leadership in Palestine will make no difference. Israel cannot give Palestine freedom if they do there is always that fear what happens if Palestinians get hold off missiles in replace of sticks and stones and decide to pay Israel a lesson.

Hamas rockets are killing Israeli civilians. Both Israel and Hamas are war criminals
https://twitter.com/x/status/1393527116520636416

 

[Citizen X]

Hamas rockets are killing Israeli civilians. Both Israel and Hamas are war criminals

Most balanced statement made today.

 

[Citizen X]

Remember yasir Arafat when he was in power was there peace?. During his last years he was confounded in a building where Israeli forces had surrounded him. Eventually they left but the humiliation that Palestine had to go through.

You can have Gandhi sitting on the seat of leadership in Palestine will make no difference. Israel cannot give Palestine freedom if they do there is always that fear what happens if Palestinians get hold off missiles in replace of sticks and stones and decide to pay Israel a lesson.

Yasir Arafat was nothing but a corrupt criminal who accumulated billions in personal finance from Palestinian misery. Like it or not, peace and indepence will only come from the negotiating table, no amount of rockets or military action from any side will bring peace.

For that you need leaders like Mohd Ali Jinnah and Nelson Mandela, not criminals and corrupts like Arafat, Mahmood and Hamas.

 

[desan]

Not really no. Palestine is also a signatory to Oslo Accord which specifically states that Palestinian Authority has to reprimand and punish those armed groups that target Israeli civilians.

Under interntaional law what Hamas is doing is not only a war crime but also a crime against humanities. And for Western societies crime against humanity is like Shirk in Islam.

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2002/isrl-pa/ISRAELPA1002-04.htm

This is sham journalism.

No body deserve to live like people of Gaza but they voted Hamas into power and the only one beneffiting from Hamas are Israeli hardliners.

Instead of building rockets, Palestinians should focus on building universities and create their soft power. When world stops associating them with negativity and terrorism and starts to assocate them with being educated and contributing to the world, Western countries will start siding with them. Even US is a democracy if Palestine builds soft power they could eventually win them over too.

People have a right to defend and to fight in order to recover their occupied land...

If you bring your whole family to occupy ones land and create an apartheid state then the oppressed have left no choice but to defend themselves.

It's like blaming a rape victim for attacking the gang who is trying to rape her!!!

This is how the whole saga started.

Mind you, these are not two states that are fighting each other.
It's a fight between a mighty army and rag tag militia that is trying to defend it's land and it's people.

Ethnic cleansing, collective punishment and apartheid state is also not allowed in international law.

 

[desan]

Hamas rockets are killing Israeli civilians. Both Israel and Hamas are war criminals
https://twitter.com/x/status/1393527116520636416

Which War???

This is broad daylight effort at landgrabbing.

It's a hegemony of an apartheid state that is oppressing the people of occupied land.

People of an occupied land anywhere in the world have a right to defend their people and land by whatever means necessary.

 

[Citizen X]

Which War???

This is broad daylight effort at landgrabbing.

It's a hegemony of an apartheid state that is oppressing the people of occupied land.

People of an occupied land anywhere in the world have a right to defend their people and land by whatever means necessary.

Dude the point is, hamas are not helping, hamas are just making it worse. Now making false strawmen statements like if Hamas goes away thing will be all peaceful and hunky dory and everybody will sit around a camp fire singing kumbaya is also idiotic. No one EVER said that.

What you lot fail to see is, Hamas willingly or unwillingly is actually helping Israel in its land grab. This whole situation was started by the settlers moving into Sheikh Jarrah. This story caught the worlds attention and as always as a diversion Israelis attacked Al Aqsa. Which didn't have the desired effect and just added on to Israels PR disaster.

Then comes in Hamas with its worthless firecrackers, Israel see the opportunity and cashes in on it. And now NO ONE is talking about Shiekh Jarrah or the settlers kicking out Palestinians from their homes or the attack of Aqsa.

The whole worlds attention is diverted to Gaza now. And believe me the west is sick of Hamas as its rockets and pretty much really don't care about that situation.

Minus Hamas and its lobbying of firecrackers, the focus would still be on Sheikh Jarrah and Al Aqsa and make it very hard for Israel to squirm out of it looking like the good guys.

 

[arifkarim]

Which War???

This is broad daylight effort at landgrabbing.

It's a hegemony of an apartheid state that is oppressing the people of occupied land.

People of an occupied land anywhere in the world have a right to defend their people and land by whatever means necessary.

Israel too has the right to defend its civilians from Hamas rockets

 

[arifkarim]

Dude the point is, hamas are not helping, hamas are just making it worse. Now making false strawmen statements like if Hamas goes away thing will be all peaceful and hunky dory and everybody will sit around a camp fire singing kumbaya is also idiotic. No one EVER said that.

What you lot fail to see is, Hamas willingly or unwillingly is actually helping Israel in its land grab. This whole situation was started by the settlers moving into Sheikh Jarrah. This story caught the worlds attention and as always as a diversion Israelis attacked Al Aqsa. Which didn't have the desired effect and just added on to Israels PR disaster.

Then comes in Hamas with its worthless firecrackers, Israel see the opportunity and cashes in on it. And now NO ONE is talking about Shiekh Jarrah or the settlers kicking out Palestinians from their homes or the attack of Aqsa.

The whole worlds attention is diverted to Gaza now. And believe me the west is sick of Hamas as its rockets and pretty much really don't care about that situation.

Minus Hamas and its lobbying of firecrackers, the focus would still be on Sheikh Jarrah and Al Aqsa and make it very hard for Israel to squirm out of it looking like the good guys.

Hamas Israel alliance

 

[Vitamin_C]

In 2011, there was another resolution against the Israeli wall built illegally on the soil of Palestine. 120 permanent members + 13 out of 14 UN Security Council members voted against it. What is your take on that?

138 Permanent members of UN GA approved establishment of Palestinian State on pre 1967 positions. What type of softer image do you want Palestine to promote, in addition to that, Sir?

+ what is your take on the Israeli nuclear program, for which, there was a resolution passed in 1982 to halt it, but instead Iraq gets bombed out for "alleged" nukes and Iran faces economic sanctions and Libya was totally turned upside down. What sort of moral grounds does Israel have to be still pursuing its nuclear program? Why no one has ever asked Israel to sign on the NPT?

I dont know much about that particular resoltution but I am aware that Israel is in violation of international law when it comes to their illegal settlements and violating UN resolutions. Some areas where Palestinians have documents proving ownership from Ottoman times and they still took that land which is basicly theft even under Israeli law.

For Nuclear program its a bit confusing. US was first country do develop Nukes and after that Soviet Union got nukes in 1949, China got it in 1964 and France + UK got it durung thta time.

US didnt like Soviets getting the nukes or the Chinese but there were no sanctions on either, France and UK were deemed to be responsible enough to have nukes, Germany decided not to get nukes. But every country after that was sanctioned, first one being India before 1974 then South Africa and Pakistan.

The thing about sanctions is that it only works before the country gets the nukes but not after they already have it. Israel got their nukes with Iranian help and their spies in US and Europe in the 1960s before countries were starting to be sanctioned.

India Pakistan and Israel are not signatory to NPT so their are not violating the treaty by having nukes. Meanwhile Iran and North Korea already signed NPT and they are violating it.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

I dont know much about that particular resoltution but I am aware that Israel is in violation of international law when it comes to their illegal settlements and violating UN resolutions. Some areas where Palestinians have documents proving ownership from Ottoman times and they still took that land which is basicly theft even under Israeli law.

United States vetoes Security Council resolution on Israeli settlements

The United States today vetoed a Security Council resolution condemning all Israeli settlements established in occupied Palestinian territory since 1967 as illegal, saying that while it agreed that the settlements are illegitimate the resolution harmed chances for peace talks.

news.un.org

For Nuclear program its a bit confusing. US was first country do develop Nukes and after that Soviet Union got nukes in 1949, China got it in 1964 and France + UK got it durung thta time.

US didnt like Soviets getting the nukes or the Chinese but there were no sanctions on either, France and UK were deemed to be responsible enough to have nukes, Germany decided not to get nukes. But every country after that was sanctioned, first one being India before 1974 then South Africa and Pakistan.

The thing about sanctions is that it only works before the country gets the nukes but not after they already have it. Israel got their nukes with Iranian help and their spies in US and Europe in the 1960s before countries were starting to be sanctioned.

India Pakistan and Israel are not signatory to NPT so their are not violating the treaty by having nukes. Meanwhile Iran and North Korea already signed NPT and they are violating it.

So, Israel developed it during 1960's, with the help of Iran, but Iran could not itself develop nukes up till now?

Despite there is a UN Security Council resolution No 487 of 1981 which asks Israel to put its own Nuclear program under IAEA safeguards, but it has never allowed the UN inspectors to even land into Israel.

The last pressure, where even the US called for signing the NPT by the Israeli government was rejected by Israel, with a straight face.

Israel rejects call to join anti-nuclear treaty

Israel on Saturday rejected as "flawed and hypocritical" a declaration by signatories of a global anti-nuclear arms treaty that urged it to sign the pact and make its atomic facilities subject to U.N. inspections.

www.reuters.com

So, if a country is so astute, as not to even care for the international calls of restraint, then what do you expect in rebuttal from the other side? An armed resistance is bound to emerge, when the International community and everyone else remain docile and inactive against the aggressor. Its, I guess a no-brainer, at all.

 

[Vitamin_C]

United States vetoes Security Council resolution on Israeli settlements

The United States today vetoed a Security Council resolution condemning all Israeli settlements established in occupied Palestinian territory since 1967 as illegal, saying that while it agreed that the settlements are illegitimate the resolution harmed chances for peace talks.

news.un.org

So, Israel developed it during 1960's, with the help of Iran, but Iran could not itself develop nukes up till now?

Despite there is a UN Security Council resolution No 487 of 1981 which asks Israel to put its own Nuclear program under IAEA safeguards, but it has never allowed the UN inspectors to even land into Israel.

The last pressure, where even the US called for signing the NPT by the Israeli government was rejected by Israel, with a straight face.

Israel rejects call to join anti-nuclear treaty

Israel on Saturday rejected as "flawed and hypocritical" a declaration by signatories of a global anti-nuclear arms treaty that urged it to sign the pact and make its atomic facilities subject to U.N. inspections.

www.reuters.com

So, if a country is so astute, as not to even care for the international calls of restraint, then what do you expect in rebuttal from the other side? An armed resistance is bound to emerge, when the International community and everyone else remain docile and inactive against the aggressor. Its, I guess a no-brainer, at all.

There are also objections on Indian nuclear program and Pakistani program but once the program is completed there’s not much sanctions can do. Only country that sanctions worked on after building working nukes was South Africa.

1981 was too late to do anything about Israel’s program it was completed decades before that.

Iran and North Korea are a different story. Iran is a mullah dictatorship and North Korea is a puppet regime financed by China. If Iran was under Shah and a democracy they would have been treated more similarly to Pakistan or Israel’s nuclear program.

As long as a country is responsible whether it’s India or Pakistan or Israel doesn’t let nukes go to terrorists or North Korea/Iran then there is little cause for US to take the nukes away.

Iran is openly calling for destruction of Israel, Syria claims they never had a program, and we all know about how irresponsible Iraq was with WMDs gassing their own citizens.

 

[desan]

Dude the point is, hamas are not helping, hamas are just making it worse. Now making false strawmen statements like if Hamas goes away thing will be all peaceful and hunky dory and everybody will sit around a camp fire singing kumbaya is also idiotic. No one EVER said that.

What you lot fail to see is, Hamas willingly or unwillingly is actually helping Israel in its land grab. This whole situation was started by the settlers moving into Sheikh Jarrah. This story caught the worlds attention and as always as a diversion Israelis attacked Al Aqsa. Which didn't have the desired effect and just added on to Israels PR disaster.

Then comes in Hamas with its worthless firecrackers, Israel see the opportunity and cashes in on it. And now NO ONE is talking about Shiekh Jarrah or the settlers kicking out Palestinians from their homes or the attack of Aqsa.

The whole worlds attention is diverted to Gaza now. And believe me the west is sick of Hamas as its rockets and pretty much really don't care about that situation.

Minus Hamas and its lobbying of firecrackers, the focus would still be on Sheikh Jarrah and Al Aqsa and make it very hard for Israel to squirm out of it looking like the good guys.

No love lost for Hamas.
If anything, they are providing a cover to the Terrorist State to do atrocities on live TV.

Hamas is just a symptom of the Barbaric Treatment meted out to the hapless people for decades.

If not Hamas, there will be some other organization with some other name with similar outcome.

 

[desan]

Israel too has the right to defend its civilians from Hamas rockets

Rapist of course will try to protect himself from the attacks of a victim...

 

[Sohail Shuja]

There are also objections on Indian nuclear program and Pakistani program but once the program is completed there’s not much sanctions can do. Only country that sanctions worked on after building working nukes was South Africa.

Point taken.

1981 was too late to do anything about Israel’s program it was completed decades before that.

But the question remains ... if Israel developed nukes by the help of Iran, then technically Iran would have completed its own nuclear program a decade before Israel did.

Iran and North Korea are a different story. Iran is a mullah dictatorship and North Korea is a puppet regime financed by China. If Iran was under Shah and a democracy they would have been treated more similarly to Pakistan or Israel’s nuclear program.

Two misstatements here. Iran either could've remained under Shah's monarchy or it could've had become a democracy.

Besides, there are many theories suggesting the western controlling hands behind the revolution in Iran during the Afghan siege of the Soviets and the cold war era i.e 1979. Moreover, in 1981-2, Iran Iraq war, US was supporting Iran.

Apart from the western rhetoric of Iran being an existential threat to Israel, no one has considered Israel being an existential threat to Palestine and had ever considered imposing sanctions on it, that too even after it invaded Iraq in 1981 and Syria as well. It had also fought three wars with Lebanon. Iran has never invaded any neighbouring country.

So the picture is quite murky here and things appear to have been given weight in complete disaccord to the balance of convenience.

As long as a country is responsible whether it’s India or Pakistan or Israel doesn’t let nukes go to terrorists or North Korea/Iran then there is little cause for US to take the nukes away.
Iran is openly calling for destruction of Israel, Syria claims they never had a program, and we all know about how irresponsible Iraq was with WMDs gassing their own citizens.

Iran did nothing against Israel except issuing statements. Had their nuclear program been so advanced as to have helped Israel in developing one of its own, they would have had it by now and if there was any essence in their statements, Israel would have been a history, long ago.

The matter is with the definition of terrorism. If a sovereign state's policies become hostile towards another nation, shall it not be dubbed as terrorism? Israel is continuously crying the wolf of Iran and Iraq, but is not stopping at any cost to keep increasing its illegal occupation of Palestine. What do you call it? a responsible state?

 

[Sohail Shuja]

No love lost for Hamas.
If anything, they are providing a cover to the Terrorist State to do atrocities on live TV.

Hamas is just a symptom of the Barbaric Treatment meted out to the hapless people for decades.

If not Hamas, there will be some other organization with some other name with similar outcome.

Can you please ask the august member that where was Hamas until 1984? and what happened between 1967 to 1984?

Were if there no armed resistance, would anything contain the Israelis to sign the Oslo Accord?