What is the Relevance of Being a "Muhajir" Today - Debate

[UKPakistani]

think she gave the reason that India is an enemy and they hate that word.......(bigsmile)

But then did Altaf not BEG the Indians to take them back under the "right" Circumstances ? IN INDIA !!!

Only few years ago ?

 

[UKPakistani]

Tum panjabion ka dimagh lohay ka hai is leay tumharay ye batain samach nahi aaeingee tum jajo aur pee paa kar mujra dekho

Altaf Ka-jar Aaaj phir Mujra Kar raha heh ?

Is he doing requests today ?

 

[desicad]

But then did Altaf not BEG the Indians to take them back under the "right" Circumstances ? IN INDIA !!!

Only few years ago ?

are you referring to that video?.......don't know the context, but if I remember correctly he said something like partition was not right.......don't think he begged India what you have mentioned.........

 

[frootloops]

jab tak sorj chand rahee ga Mohajir tera nam rahega. Mohajirion ny di hy jan tab bana hy Pakistan rat ky sote kutton ko soba mila Pakistan.

 

[LivePakistan]

I repeatedly commented on this Muhajir issue, if someone consider himself Muhajir after 3rd generation, he must go back to its place of migration. These bloody rats want to destroy Pakistan in the name of Muhajir. They are pro-Indian people and must be kicked out from Pakistan.

 

[Aijazahmed]

Most of my family lives in Krc, I never felt any heat you just mentioned..

people of Pakistan generally are suffering from Inflation/terrosim but we try to find excuses that this is because we are urdu speaking etc..

This is a General Phenomina not a specific one as MQM people claims

See, you guys will never accept that there is some fault at your end too.

You did not answer me what is the best word to be called among Muttarwa, telair, hindustani panah guzeen and Muhajir????????

You have no answer to this as the right answer makes others at fault not us urdu speaking people.

 

[UKPakistani]

are you referring to that video?.......don't know the context, but if I remember correctly he said something like partition was not right.......don't think he begged India what you have mentioned.........

So tell me I made this up in 2004 just to fool you in 2013

MQM Leader Altaf Hussain meets Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh

Altaf Hussain Seeks Easier Political Asylum For His Supporters: India RejectsBy Arun Rajnath

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NEW DELHI, November 8: Somewhat intrigued by the indirect requests and appeals by visiting Pakistani MQM leader, Mr. Altaf Hussain, to grant political asylum to his supporters in India, the Indian Home Ministry has categorically rejected his emotional pleas. Minister of State for Home Affairs, S. Reghupati told the ‘South Asia Tribune’: “Such proposals are not viable or practical, and Mr. Hussain himself understands it. If we grant asylum to Pakistani Mohajirs (refugees), why not to Bangladeshis? Then we should also cease our actions of identifying illegal migrants from Bangladesh and we should open our doors for every Mohajir, and give them legal status.”Officials said in his meeting with the Indian Foreign Minister, Natwar Singh, Mr. Hussain requested that his supporters, the Mohajirs, be granted Long Term Visas (LTV) to live in India. He also requested the Indians to show leniency when considering such cases, especially of the Mohajir community, if they are legally entitled to get the Indian citizenship.Indian analysts are scratching their heads to understand what it was that Mr. Hussain, now a key ally of the military government in Pakistan and having his own nominee as the all powerful Governor of Sindh, was talking about his supporters seeking political asylum in India. Was he expecting another crackdown any time soon?These analysts think Mr. Hussain’s requests reflected a deep sense of insecurity and lack of confidence in the durability of the present Pakistani set up as Mr. Hussain was not only staying in self-imposed exile himself in UK but was even talking about a large number of his supporters running away from Pakistan to seek asylum in India, as chances of getting asylum in the US and UK had diminished after 9/11.It may be of interest that during the past crackdowns on MQM in Pakistan, especially during operations launched by the Pakistan Army in the 90s, a huge number of MQM supporters fled the country and took asylum in US and UK, with some of them going to India as well, though there they stayed underground.An understanding of any sort, if given to Mr. Hussain by the Indians, would result in a huge number of MQM supporters entering India through the large Pak-India border in Sindh and this prospect does not cheer up many in the policy making corridors in New Delhi, analysts say.Despite being termed as ‘Not War Singh’ by Mr. Hussain, Natwar Singh has given him no assurance of considering his plea to grant LTVs to Mohajirs to entitle them to live here for a longer period. While talking about the internal conditions in Pakistan with Natwar Singh, Mr. Hussain expressed the desire of several Mohajirs to return to India. He told Mr. Singh the second generation of the Mohajir community was now facing the “acrimonious fruit of the 1947 partition”. He also recited an Urdu couplet during his interaction with Natwar Singh: ‘Yeh waqt bhi dekha hai taareekh ke safahon ne; Lamhon ne khata ki thi, sadiyon ne sazaa payee’(Annals of History have witnessed the phenomenon that blunders committed in a short span of time resulted in punishment for centuries)Foreign Ministry officials told the ‘South Asia Tribune’ Mr. Hussain had also revealed that a large number of his Mohajir community wanted to return to their roots, and most of them wanted their Indian citizenship back. Though he did not directly request Natwar Singh to “grant asylum” to Mohajirs, he made it clear that this was exactly what he wanted. It would be a great service to humanity to be more lenient towards the Mohajirs. They should be given Long Term Visas, if asylum was a politically incorrect term at this time to use, he pleaded.Asked to comment on the subject, Secretary, Minority Cell (Congress Party), Meem Afzal had different views: “The new generation of the Pakistan Mohajirs does not wish to re-unite with India or return to their roots. Their counterparts in India also do not wish their relatives to come back from Pakistan to settle down in India. It is just a matter of a few years and after the end of the second generation or Altaf Hussain’s generation, the ghost of nostalgia will just disappear.”Apart from this some of the Mohajirs were declared ‘dead’ in property documents/papers/ records at the time of the partition by other members of the family to protect their property from being taken over by Indian authorities. Those who stayed behind claimed full inheritance. If they or their children return to India, it would complicate matters a lot.Mr. Afzal says that it takes 15-20 years for Pakistani women married to Indians to get citizenship of India. In this situation, how asylum could be granted to Mohajirs. Mr. Hussain has also made this point before Natwar Singh.There are several such cases in Delhi and Uttar Pradesh. A Muslim girl of Old Delhi was married to a Pakistani boy, and subsequently became a Pakistani citizen. But after sometime, her husband divorced her, and she returned to India in 1990. Her Indian citizenship has not been restored till now despite all efforts.Such women are deliberately being denied Indian citizenship. They have to struggle to get the validity-period of their visas to be extended, besides appearing before the local police station now and then. Intelligence agents also keep an eye on Pakistani nationals residing within their area. The Government of India had virtually kept Altaf Hussain under ‘room-arrest’ the whole day on November 6, and nobody was allowed to see him or his party men. Various government officials and security men paid visits to him the whole day. While sitting in the lobby of Mauriya Sheraton Hotel, this correspondent saw officials of the Indian intelligence watching every movement of Altaf Hussain.An official was also posted at the Reception Counter of the hotel who used to ascertain the identity of all visitors for Altaf Hussain. No phone calls were allowed to his room from the Reception. The calls transferred to his room by phone operators were automatically diverted to the voice mailbox provided by the hotel to its guests. Mr. Hussain and his aides were given cellular phones with special numbers.


http://antisystemic.org/satribune/www.satribune.com/archives/nov04/P1_arun4.htm
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[janbazali]

I repeatedly commented on this Muhajir issue, if someone consider himself Muhajir after 3rd generation, he must go back to its place of migration. These bloody rats want to destroy Pakistan in the name of Muhajir. They are pro-Indian people and must be kicked out from Pakistan.

Don't be too harsh man.. people are being exploited for Political gain... just like saraiki soba, hazara soba etc.. .

 

[LivePakistan]

Don't be too harsh man.. people are being exploited for Political gain... just like saraiki soba, hazara soba etc.. .

But those movements are stifling Pakistan and are not causing death of 10-15 people everyday. There is Muhajir Liberation Army (MLA) in action as well which is the source of concern. This is becoming nasty since 1985 in the name of Muhajir.

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

I am Pakistani but i am also recognized as Punjabi by others so as Sindis Balochs and Pushtuns. Urdu/Hindi speaking people who came to Pakistan deserve a name Muhajir or some thing else.
Hindustani is a good choice. Hating Hindus (Sanatan Dharma) does not mean that we should reject our nationality. Even Sindies and Punjabies can also fall under the term Hindustani as Punjabis and Sindhis are also ethnically Hindustanis or Hindus.


Hindu is a ethnicity originated from the mixing of Dravadians and Aryans.
The term Hindu has its origin from river Indus or Sindhu.


Sindhu is sansikrat term for a river as Indus was a big river so the people
stated calling it as Sindhu. In ancient Persian 'S' sound was missing, so they
termed the river as Hindu, When Alaxander came he pronounced it indo
so the river became Indus, country India and People Indian.


The religion is Sanatan Dharma , common ethnicity of the
people of South Asia is Hindu. So we should not be ashamed of terms Hindu or Hindi or
Hindustani.

 

[shafi3859]

Inn ki dukan na band ho jaey bass... Baap mera andheray may bete power house... phlay insaniat seekh lo.... ppl came from all over india to adopt one culture that was and is pakistani culture...so apni choran chatni ki dukan band kero oar daffa ho jao...logo ko jheenay do..

A "Culture" needs a "Name"

Culture consists of things like "mother language", cooking of different dishes, the customs etc.

There are 5 major Cultures in Pakistan

1. Punjabi Culture (.... people who belong to this Culture, they are known as PUNJABIES)
2. Sindhi Culture
3. Pushtoon Culture
4. Baloochi Culture
5. Kashmiri Culture

Then there are sub-cultures like:

1. Saraiki culture
2. Barahwi culture
3. Hazara culture
4. Kafiristani culture etc.

All these "Cultures" have separate "Names" through which they are recognized.

The people, who migrated and came from India, they have also a specific Culture, which consists of language, Cooking style, customs etc.

The biggest mistake was to not to give a specific NAME to this separate Culture at time of creation of Pakistan, through which this Culture could have been recognized.

In 1951 Constituion, the name of these People was officially given as "Muhajirs". Since then this name carried on and still exist today.



Question: What name should have been given to People who migrated from India?

Name of Culture is give on Two bases basically:

1. Area (from where People came)

In case of people, who migrated from India, then name should have been "Hindustani" or "Hindustani Muslims". But this name of this culture was not accepted to us as we hate Hindu and India.

2. Language

This culture could have got the name of "URDUSTANI" on bases of their language being "Urdu".

But URDU became the "National" language of Pakistan (including Banglades). Therefore all of us became "Urdustani" too and thus this name could have also not been given to them.

Therefore, the name "Muhajirs" carried on for these People and their culture.



Difference between "Literal" meanings and "Terminology"

Therefore, now the word "Muhajir" has lost it's literal meaning and it has become a TERM which represents a set of people with specific language, Dishes, customs etc.



4th Generation of Pakistanies still known as "Pakistanies" in England

Although this 4th Generation is English, but due to their specific custom and language, they are still known as "Pakistanies". It is due to the Universal Human Nature that every Culture needs a Name to be recognized.


Please give an Alternative name to People who migrated from India

Till the time their culture exists, you have to give any name to them.

We have only following 2 Options:

1st: To give them an alternative Name which is acceptable to them and others too. Please think about it and suggest.

2nd: Or to start understanding that Muhajirs has lost it's literal meaning and it has been used now as "Terminology".


COCLUSION:

MQM should present a Bill in National Assembly that this word Mohajir should be officially recognized as Terminology for representing the culture of people who migrated from India.

Or MQM should ask the people from Pakistan to suggest such new name of this Culture, which is acceptable to all.

Till the time, the nation agrees upon this new name, word Mohajir should be officially recognized as Terminology to represent this community.

 

[aneeskhan]

Only fear or Phobia is that any way that talent will flourish if more provinces or administrative blocks are made, this is good for Pakistan, but how come Jahilan e Pakistan can tolerate this, we are heading towards reconciliation with Talebans, I am sure soon few Mullahs kept ready for release going to take over Pakistan along with our Ameeer ul Momineen Nehari Bheja and Sipah salar from Zanan Khana,Qazi ul Qazzad Bhenga Kanra.Al drama is from Zanan Khana.Altaf Bhai will stop saying it once Zanan Khaney Se Koyi Aank Mare Gaa.

 

[Pukaar]

A "Culture" needs a "Name"

Culture consists of things like "mother language", cooking of different dishes, the customs etc.

There are 5 major Cultures in Pakistan

1. Punjabi Culture (.... people who belong to this Culture, they are known as PUNJABIES)
2. Sindhi Culture
3. Pushtoon Culture
4. Baloochi Culture
5. Kashmiri Culture

Then there are sub-cultures like:

1. Saraiki culture
2. Barahwi culture
3. Hazara culture
4. Kafiristani culture etc.

All these "Cultures" have separate "Names" through which they are recognized.

The people, who migrated and came from India, they have also a specific Culture, which consists of language, Cooking style, customs etc.

The biggest mistake was to not to give a specific NAME to this separate Culture at time of creation of Pakistan, through which this Culture could have been recognized.

In 1951 Constituion, the name of these People was officially given as "Muhajirs". Since then this name carried on and still exist today.



Question: What name should have been given to People who migrated from India?

Name of Culture is give on Two bases basically:

1. Area (from where People came)

In case of people, who migrated from India, then name should have been "Hindustani" or "Hindustani Muslims". But this name of this culture was not accepted to us as we hate Hindu and India.

2. Language

This culture could have got the name of "URDUSTANI" on bases of their language being "Urdu".

But URDU became the "National" language of Pakistan (including Banglades). Therefore all of us became "Urdustani" too and thus this name could have also not been given to them.

Therefore, the name "Muhajirs" carried on for these People and their culture.



Difference between "Literal" meanings and "Terminology"

Therefore, now the word "Muhajir" has lost it's literal meaning and it has become a TERM which represents a set of people with specific language, Dishes, customs etc.



4th Generation of Pakistanies still known as "Pakistanies" in England

Although this 4th Generation is English, but due to their specific custom and language, they are still known as "Pakistanies". It is due to the Universal Human Nature that every Culture needs a Name to be recognized.


Please give an Alternative name to People who migrated from India

Till the time their culture exists, you have to give any name to them.

We have only following 2 Options:

1st: To give them an alternative Name which is acceptable to them and others too. Please think about it and suggest.

2nd: Or to start understanding that Muhajirs has lost it's literal meaning and it has been used now as "Terminology".


COCLUSION:

MQM should present a Bill in National Assembly that this word Mohajir should be officially recognized as Terminology for representing the culture of people who migrated from India.

Or MQM should ask the people from Pakistan to suggest such new name of this Culture, which is acceptable to all.

Till the time, the nation agrees upon this new name, word Mohajir should be officially recognized as Terminology to represent this community.

You are born in Sindh, you live your life in Sindh and when you die, you are buried in Sindh; therefore, you are Sindhi.

 

[jason]

there are urdu speaking people in Punjab too and they have adapted very well here.
culture is either related to Language or Location and thats why people speaking a certain language or living in certain location are given a certain name or identified with a certain culture.Now urdu is a common language mostly Punjabis speak Urdu language therefore certain people speaking Urdu cannot be termed as an ethnicity and based on this a new province be carved out of Sindh.As far as I know urdu speaking people are/were living peacefully whereas there were frictions between them and sindhis at times which needs to be resolved.
MQM is created to exploit the sentiments of Dhelvi, Biharies, UP and others.The case is there demands and issues should be resolved.

 

[mehwish_ali]

you born in krc, lived in krc, studied there.. R u ashamed of being called a Karachite

I born/lived/studied in Fsd/Lahore... I would loved to be called a Faisalabadi or Lahori Instead a Muhajir

خامخواہ میں ہی بات کا بتنگڑ بنایا جا رہا ہے۔

یہ لاہوری اور فیصل آبادی کا مسئلہ نہیں ہے۔

آپ لاہور میں پیدا ہوں یا پھر فیصل آباد میں، مگر آپ لاہوری اور فیصل آبادی کے ساتھ ساتھ ایک اور پہچان رکھتے ہیں، اور وہ ہے آپ کے پنجابی کلچر کی۔ چنانچہ آپ اپنے آپ کو چاہے پاکستانی کلچر کے حوالے سے پاکستانی کہیں، یا مذہب کے حوالے سے مسلمان کہیں، یا علاقے کے حوالے سے لاہوری فیصل آبادی کہیں۔۔۔۔ یہ سب ایک طریقے یا دوسرے طریقے سے آپکی پہچان ہیں اور ان میں کوئی مضائقہ نہیں۔

ہم کراچی والے بھی ہیں، پاکستانی بھی ہیں، مسلمان بھی ہیں اور ہمارے کلچر کی ایک پہچان یہ بھی ہے کہ ہمارے بزرگ اس کلچر کو انڈیا سے ہجرت کے وقت اپنے ساتھ لائے تھے، یہ کلچر ہمارے بزرگوں کی موت کے بعد ختم نہیں ہو گیا، بلکہ ہمارے بزرگ اس کلچر کو اگلی نسلوں کو دے گئے ہیں۔

یہ کلچر زندہ ہے، یہ مخصوص ریت و رواج، کھانے وغیرہ زندہ ہیں۔۔۔۔۔ چنانچہ ہرگز کوئی ہرج نہیں ہے کہ اس حوالے سے بھی ہماری پہچان ہو۔

 

[raamishasadraza_coolboy]

you born in krc, lived in krc, studied there.. R u ashamed of being called a Karachite

I born/lived/studied in Fsd/Lahore... I would loved to be called a Faisalabadi or Lahori Instead a Muhajir

well its our choice what we want to call ourselves dont u. if u belong to a family of muhajirs then just ask your family just what happend in 1992 operation in karachi. were cakes sold on that day or what, just ask your family. then u will know what your identity means and what can happen to you because of your identity. Muhajirs are those(i dont know much) who speak urdu as their main language. not sindhi, balochi, punjabi or any other language. We all call ourselves muhajirs because we feel proud that our families gave up their lives for pakistan during its independence. That's why we called ourselves that and the punjabis would also call themselves muhajirs if they didnt have a province PUNJAB, but they did so they didnt need to.

 

[raamishasadraza_coolboy]

I repeatedly commented on this Muhajir issue, if someone consider himself Muhajir after 3rd generation, he must go back to its place of migration. These bloody rats want to destroy Pakistan in the name of Muhajir. They are pro-Indian people and must be kicked out from Pakistan.

oh just shut the f up ok. we are not pro-indian ppl. we were the ones who gave up their lives for pakistan the most. So dont say we are pro-indians we are pro-pakistanis from the start and will remain till the end. Just why u guys are so against us making a province all the punjabis, sindhis have one. So dont we deserve one either. Just answer me that?

 

[Rizwan2009]

الطاف حسين وہ فتنہ عظيم ہے جس نے کراچي کے باسيوں کو مہاجر ہونے کا احساس دلايا
انيس سو اکاون کے وقت حالات کچھ اور تھے نيا ملک بنا تھا ابھي کوئى ادارہ مکمل طور پر مسحتکم نہ تھا اس لئے آنے والے لوگوں کو مہاجرين کے طور پر رجسٹرڈ کيا گيا ليکن مہاجرين وہي لوگ تھے جنہوں نے ہجرت کي تھي مہاجرين کي نسليں ہرگز مہاجر نہيں ہيں يہ الطاف حسين کا وہ فتنہ ہے جس کے ذريعے اس نے کراچي کے نوجوانوں کو گمراہ کيا اور لوگوں کو قتل و غارت گري کي طرف مائل کيا
کاش کراچي کے باسي اس حقيقت کو سمجھ جائيں اور الطاف حسين کے جال سے نکل جائيں
​

 

[muslim01]

Although I totally support new provinces in Pakistan and I agree that there shouldn't be new provinces based on ethnicites but on the other hand MQM's demand of Muhajir sooba cannot be rejected. If you say that Saraiki, Hazara and Muhajir sooba shouldn't be made because it divides Pakistan on ethnic basis then PLEASE CHANGE THE NAME OF EXISTING PROVINCES OF PAKISTAN!!!!!

 

[mehwish_ali]

الطاف حسين وہ فتنہ عظيم ہے جس نے کراچي کے باسيوں کو مہاجر ہونے کا احساس دلايا
انيس سو اکاون کے وقت حالات کچھ اور تھے نيا ملک بنا تھا ابھي کوئى ادارہ مکمل طور پر مسحتکم نہ تھا اس لئے آنے والے لوگوں کو مہاجرين کے طور پر رجسٹرڈ کيا گيا ليکن مہاجرين وہي لوگ تھے جنہوں نے ہجرت کي تھي مہاجرين کي نسليں ہرگز مہاجر نہيں ہيں يہ الطاف حسين کا وہ فتنہ ہے جس کے ذريعے اس نے کراچي کے نوجوانوں کو گمراہ کيا اور لوگوں کو قتل و غارت گري کي طرف مائل کيا
کاش کراچي کے باسي اس حقيقت کو سمجھ جائيں اور الطاف حسين کے جال سے نکل جائيں
​

کاش کہ آپ جیسے لوگ اپنی غلطی کا ادراک کر سکیں۔

مہاجر کا لفظ الطاف حسین نے نہیں دیا تھا بلکہ متحدہ کی پیدائش سے قبل ہی یہ لفظ ان لوگوں کے کلچر کی پہچان بن چکا تھا جو کہ انڈیا سے ہجرت کر کے آئے تھے۔

بہت آسان سی بات ہے کہ ہجرت کرنے والے تو شاید مر چکے ہوں، مگر اپنے ساتھ جو تہذیب وہ لائے تھے، وہ انکی نئی نسلوں میں زندہ ہے۔
​