Profession of Advocates in Islam.

[babadeena]

Is role of advocate of present-age or of any age has any place in Islam; or
Islamic Justice System. Hardly there is any need to elaborate the modus
operandi of advocates of both parties in any kind of dispute? What the
learned people of the board think?

 

[Wadaich]

In the Islamic history there is hardly any precedent where advocates are employed. The Islamic justice system just have five major stakeholders--Islamic Shariah, the aggrieved, the accused, the judge, and the witness if any.

 

[sahiL]

never came across any incident in Islamic readings r lectures where advocate was required 4 a judgement.......
but babadeena ji let me ask u another question 4 my own betterment......when did this profession of advocates began?
i mean i googled it....different opinions about it....u might know it r wadaich saab

 

[moazzam]

yaar yar listen to me care fully bout advocates

paida hova wakeel(Advocate) to shetan ney kaha lo ajj hum bhi sahaib-e-aulad ho gaye

 

[Mughal1]

Is role of advocate of present-age or of any age has any place in Islam; or
Islamic Justice System. Hardly there is any need to elaborate the modus
operandi of advocates of both parties in any kind of dispute? What the
learned people of the board think?

Dear babadeena, of course it has. Almost all the prophets were advocates on behalf of the weak, the poor and the needy. Social justice principle is clear. Just like we need professionals for various things eg doctors in medical profession so we need advocates in legal professions. Not everyone has knowledge in a field nor even the education. It is therefore esential that disadvantaged have the necessary support for their case. Some one has to fight their cause or their case to ensure that justice has been done.

In eaelier times principles were there but they were built upon as humanity progressed. Just like crime detection methods and evidence gathering methods etc etc. The decisions of one man are not as good as of the shoora or jury. Islam is all about progress.

The fundamental things is that people should not advocate wrong things because if they do that the society will come to harm so they are brothers of shaitaan.

Law is a maze and it is not simple for anyone to deal with legal matters that easily. Even top minds in legal profession struggle nevermind the man in the street when push comes to shove. It is a double edged sword.

So people who practice law according to islamic or humnaist objectives, situations and circumstances they are good lawyers but those who work against that are obviously playing with fire.

004.001 YUSUFALI: O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.

004.002 YUSUFALI: To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

002.188 YUSUFALI: And do not eat up your property among yourselves for vanities, nor use it as bait for the judges, with intent that ye may eat up wrongfully and knowingly a little of (other) people's property.

004.029 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!

004.035 YUSUFALI: If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.

So people who try to ruin others are clearly pointed out ie they act against the interests of the societal benefit and instead harm it by raising disputes between memebers of the society where there are none so that they could make money out of it.

I am not sure as to what exactly is direction of this discussion otherwise may be I could contribute more if need be. The main point is that there are a lot of grey areas in situations and circumstances as well as legal definitions.

regards and all the best.

 

[rana14801]

yaar yar listen to me care fully bout advocates

paida hova wakeel(Advocate) to shetan ney kaha lo ajj hum bhi sahaib-e-aulad ho gaye

plz correct it as, PAIDA HOOA WAKIL TO IBLEES NE KAHA LO AAJ MAIN BHI SAHIB E AULAD HO GAYA.

 

[babadeena]

Dear babadeena, of course it has. Almost all the prophets were advocates on behalf of the weak, the poor and the needy. Social justice principle is clear. Just like we need professionals for various things eg doctors in medical profession so we need advocates in legal professions. Not everyone has knowledge in a field nor even the education. It is therefore esential that disadvantaged have the necessary support for their case. Some one has to fight their cause or their case to ensure that justice has been done.

In eaelier times principles were there but they were built upon as humanity progressed. Just like crime detection methods and evidence gathering methods etc etc. The decisions of one man are not as good as of the shoora or jury. Islam is all about progress.

The fundamental things is that people should not advocate wrong things because if they do that the society will come to harm so they are brothers of shaitaan.

Law is a maze and it is not simple for anyone to deal with legal matters that easily. Even top minds in legal profession struggle nevermind the man in the street when push comes to shove. It is a double edged sword.

So people who practice law according to islamic or humnaist objectives, situations and circumstances they are good lawyers but those who work against that are obviously playing with fire.

004.001 YUSUFALI: O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.

004.002 YUSUFALI: To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

002.188 YUSUFALI: And do not eat up your property among yourselves for vanities, nor use it as bait for the judges, with intent that ye may eat up wrongfully and knowingly a little of (other) people's property.

004.029 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!

004.035 YUSUFALI: If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.

So people who try to ruin others are clearly pointed out ie they act against the interests of the societal benefit and instead harm it by raising disputes between memebers of the society where there are none so that they could make money out of it.

I am not sure as to what exactly is direction of this discussion otherwise may be I could contribute more if need be. The main point is that there are a lot of grey areas in situations and circumstances as well as legal definitions.

regards and all the best.

I differ with your posts on two or three points. Prophets never acted as per Quran, as Vakeel for human beings. In fact, Allah, in Quran
warned that "in world you plead, who are going to plead for them at the Day of Judgement". The role of Prophets was
quite a different.
Any Law, except Islamic, and any country, the advocates pulls the penny and pound of the affectee and they
go an extra mile to save their client, IRRESPECTIVE.................
Quran has elbaorately dealt in with all kind of problems ranging from murder, property, family life, business etc etc.
Any problem one way or the other will fall in these categories in Quran. So I do not see any role
of advocates in the society, less the one which is going on at the moment, their effort is to
prove which is false and false which is right.

 

[Mughal1]

Sorry babadeena, I am having difficulty trying to understand the purpose of this discussion. I am of the opinion that wakaalat is essntial part of human life in general but professional wakaalat is relatively new idea but then most current ideas are new ideas including flying in the air or trvalling in the space. Things do have genuine place in societies. The world has been becoming very complex since it came to existence.

Things come in to being or are brought in to being because they are needed to fill the gap. It is natural.

 

[awan4ever]

We live in a much more complex world now than 1400 years ago and as per progression of civilization naturally new professions also emerged. I dont see anything unislamic about the said profession.
However what an advocate/lawyer does in pursuit of success is something that can be called into question. If he lies and colludes with the wrong doers then he will be answerable for his actions in the Hereafter.

 

[babadeena]

ANY QUOTATION FROM ANY SOURCE THAT IN THE PROPHET(PBUH) TIME OR EVEN AFTER
IN FOUR CALIPHS TIME, THERE USED TO VAKIL IN JUSTICE SYSTEM. Perhaps someone can
elaborate.

 

[awan4ever]

Was there any journalist back in that time?
Was there any risk analyst?
Was there any project planner?
So many others that come to mind too..

PS: If you answer is because there was no tv or anything like that then please consider that there were news back then too, there were businesses back then too but these new job titles only came up later when things got more complex and needed better management.
An advocate is basically a 'project manager' and a 'risk analyst' helping you out with managing your case portfolio.

 

[babadeena]

Was there any journalist back in that time?
Was there any risk analyst?
Was there any project planner?
So many others that come to mind too..

PS: If you answer is because there was no tv or anything like that then please consider that there were news back then too, there were businesses back then too but these new job titles only came up later when things got more complex and needed better management.
An advocate is basically a 'project manager' and a 'risk analyst' helping you out with managing your case portfolio.

There were people who used to give news but they may be in different form like (Hashrayeen) and they were
even before the advent of Islam. There was business activity and people used to take care of it in different forms.
but the question is were there advocates to represent people in the Courts? Or People used to represent
their cases on their own before Judge.? The need for a Justice had been all along since the creation of
this Universe, I suppose!!!

 

[Mughal1]

There were people who used to give news but they may be in different form like (Hashrayeen) and they were
even before the advent of Islam. There was business activity and people used to take care of it in different forms.
but the question is were there advocates to represent people in the Courts? Or People used to represent
their cases on their own before Judge.? The need for a Justice had been all along since the creation of
this Universe, I suppose!!!

The following link may be of help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_legal_profession

 

[awan4ever]

There were people who used to give news but they may be in different form like (Hashrayeen) and they were
even before the advent of Islam. There was business activity and people used to take care of it in different forms.
but the question is were there advocates to represent people in the Courts? Or People used to represent
their cases on their own before Judge.? The need for a Justice had been all along since the creation of
this Universe, I suppose!!!

I dont know what the point of the whole post is but lets you are right for arguments sake. Does that automatically make the profession haram or something?

 

[babadeena]

The following link may be of help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_legal_profession

.....

The legal profession's return was marked by the renewed efforts of church and state to regulate it. In 1231 two French councils mandated that lawyers had to swear an oath of admission before practicing before the bishop's courts in their regions, and a similar oath was promulgated by the papal legate in London in 1237.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_legal_profession#cite_note-24.......

So nothing this sort of thing in the Biblical, or Mohamdian Islam eras. ?????????

I dont know what the point of the whole post is but lets you are right for arguments sake. Does that automatically
make the profession haram or something?

I do not know it is halal or harram. But my prayer is that not even my enemy should ever be in the
grips of Lawers, courts, etc generally in all over the world and specially in Pak Sir Zameen. Rest
conclusion you can draw yourself.

 

[Mughal1]

Dear babadeena, if you do not mind me asking have had the experence and you are warning the rest of us. You are right kachehri is very bad place to be in nowadays especially and more so if you are a weaker party.

Let us pray allah may save us all from dakooz and luteraz and waderaz etc.

 

[babadeena]

Dear babadeena, if you do not mind me asking have had the experence and you are warning the rest of us. You are right kachehri is very bad place to be in nowadays especially and more so if you are a weaker party.

Let us pray allah may save us all from dakooz and luteraz and waderaz etc.

No. Not at all. The concept of Justice is failed when Adovcates are involved. I mean
purely in Islamic sense. Judge and the aggrieved parties are what matter.