The Arsy of Allah (Sidratul Muntaha) and Nile and Euphrates Rivers

[modern.fakir]

You first have you be qualified to be able to tell what is metaphorical and wat is not :biggthumpup:

The names of the Prophet represent man in both the spiritual and physical term. Whats wrong with that ??...several biblical events are the same way ??(bigsmile)

The same source of the Nile and euphrates signifies the UNITY in GOD of all things :biggthumpup:

What do you think about the trinity of the Father (God), the Son (Human Body) and the Holy Spirit ( Human Soul ) ??[hilar][hilar]

what works for you should work for the muslims too [hilar][hilar]

Good explanation

Some of the questions again

Will you also interpret other Hadiths in Metaphorical terms too?

Will you also like to explain the Names of Prophets in this Hadith in Metaphorical terms too?

Nile and Eupharates are not running from a same point , there sources are different one in Tanzania and other in Turkey

The biggest Problem is Prophet(PBUH) himself explaining the event in this Hadith , even explains to people that the Fruits of that Lote tree are like the Jars of Hajr ?.... I think When Prophet (PBUH) himself explains something then there is no need for others to explain it .

 

[Shahid Abassi]

With no knowledge of deeper going things in religion, here is my answer.

(1) The Hadith does not say that Nile and Eupharates spring from Sidratul-Muntaha. Only two rivers were made visible to prophet (PBUH), the earthly two, for comparison with the two of the paradise.

(2) There are two hidden rivers? they are also proved from Bible as the Bible says, there are 4 rivers in the garden of Eden but only two have historically been proved in the area on earth where they believed these gardens of Eden were layed.


Now what can a critic try to prove here by the way punjabimunda is putting up his questions? Basically he has two possibilities (1) Hadith is incorrect or (2) Mohammad (PBUH) is making up things which he wanted people with ignorance of Arabia to believe

(1) Hadith does not look to be incorrect as it is very much telling the same that what is been narrated in bible.
(2) The prophet (PBUH) can not be exaggerating as he would know that it won't even make a common sense to tell his people that Nile and euphrates spring from seven heavens above earth. You can't even blame that he did not know of other rivers in the world and that's why he only saw Nile and Eupharates. He surely knew about Tigris and some very big rivers of Ethopia at least. And it is been told that Mecca was a hub for traders who would bring spices from India and some who brought goods from Persia and Afica. Strange that those sailer never told arabs about great rivers of their own lands.

 

[ejaz]

please listen carefully from 20:00 to 27:00

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

You first have you be qualified to be able to tell what is metaphorical and wat is not :biggthumpup:

The names of the Prophet represent man in both the spiritual and physical term. Whats wrong with that ??...several biblical events are the same way ??(bigsmile)

The same source of the Nile and euphrates signifies the UNITY in GOD of all things :biggthumpup:

What do you think about the trinity of the Father (God), the Son (Human Body) and the Holy Spirit ( Human Soul ) ??[hilar][hilar]

what works for you should work for the muslims too [hilar][hilar]

I think Prophet PBUH himself explained everything in this hadith clearly for companions

I do not think Prophet PBUH left it for Modern Fakir of 21th century to explain it [hilar]

So you blaming Prophet PBUH that you know a better explanation then Prophet (PBUH) himself

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

(1) The Hadith does not say that Nile and Eupharates are running from Sidratul-Muntaha. Only two were made visible to prophet (PBUH) the earthly two, for comparison with the two of the paradise.

(2) There are two hidden rivers? they are also proved from Bible. The Bible says, there are 4 rivers in the garden of Eden but only two have historically been proved.


Now what can a critic try to prove here by the way punjabimunda is putting up his questions? Basically he has two possibilities (1) Hadith is incorrect or (2) Mohammad (PBUH) is making up things which he wanted people to people with ignorance of Arabia.

(1) Hadith does not look to be incorrect as it is very much telling the same that what is been narrated in bible.
(2) The prophet (PBUH) can not be exaggerating as he would know that it won't even make a common sense to tell his people that Nile and euphrates spring from seven heavens above earth. You can't even blame that he did not know of other rivers in the world and that's why he only saw Nile and Eupharates. He surely knew about Tigris and some very big rivers of Ethopia at least.

I do not think that Prophet PBUH left the explanation on you ...(anyway it is a hadith and it is not compulsory on you to defend it because there a number of of other Hadiths in these book which cannot be defended nowadays )

Remember .... In the old time Arabs were only aware of two big rivers Nile and Eupharates and did not know from where they are coming

How can you prove 4 or 2 rivers of Haven historically?

I do not think there is any comparison of rivers is being made in this Hadith

and you Know Hadith is always an explanation for People .... I do not think that you need to explain anything when Prophet PBUH already explained it

 

[akinternational]

The Hadith says there are 4 rivers run from Sidhratul Muntaha . Two are hidden and run in Paradise and the other two visible rivers are Nile and Eupharates

My question is what are Nile and Euphartes really are ?

Remember in ancient times the people did not know from where Nile and Euphartes are coming from and what is the source of these rivers.

Even if we accept that the rivers mentioned in hadith are different rivers then again there is problem if God given the names of two earthy rivers in Heaven then that makes the two earthly rivers Holy

There are other questions too like
Are length and breadth of those two rivers from Sidratul Muntaha are also the same as the rivers on Earth ?

Or the water is also same ?

Or the geography is also same ?

because only are similar rivers can be called with same names ... if people change the run of the rivers on Earth will God will also change the run of the Heavely rivers from Sidhratul Mutaha too?

What is your problem, what do you want to prove....if you are non muslim or munafiq tell us and come to the point directly......Tell me if your father is really your father? find it first before commenting and questioning Hadith e mubarika.....

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

What is your problem, what do you want to prove....if you are non muslim or munafiq tell us and come to the point directly......Tell me if your father is really your father? find it first before commenting and questioning Hadith e mubarika.....[/COLOR][/SIZE]

So you believe in Jahil Mullahs and their fake stories attributed to Prophet PBUH

Read this

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (Nun): '(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah. The name of the whale is Liwash, and it is said its name is Lutiaya'; the name of the bull is Bahamut, and some say its name is Talhut or Liyona. The whale is in a sea called 'Adwad, and it is like a small bull in a huge sea. The sea is in a hollowed rock whereby there is 4,000 cracks, and from each crack water springs out to the earth. It is also said that Nun is one of the names of the Lord; it stands for the letter Nun in Allah's name al-Rahman (the Beneficent); and it is also said that a Nun is an ink well. (By the pen) Allah swore by the pen. This pen is made of light and its height is equal to the distance between Heaven and earth. It is with this pen that the Wise Remembrance, i.e. the Guarded Tablet, was written. It is also said that the pen is one of the angels by whom Allah has sworn, (and that which they write (therewith)) and Allah also swore by what the angels write down of the works of the children of Adam,

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa...oraNo=68&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0

Earth on the wings of whale and horns of Bull [hilar]

 

[modern.fakir]

You have now understood the point Exactly, then why are you debating it ??:biggthumpup:

Everyone understands it to HIS ability. This is how it goes :

1. The Prophet Explained it

2. Everyone understood it according to THEIR ability :biggthumpup:

So why are you blaming me for a better explanation when im only reiterating my UNDERSTANDING :biggthumpup:

Did the Prophet pbuh ever assign YOU that task ??[hilar][hilar]

I think Prophet PBUH himself explained everything in this hadith clearly for companions

I do not think Prophet PBUH left it for Modern Fakir of 21th century to explain it [hilar]

So you blaming Prophet PBUH that you know a better explanation then Prophet (PBUH) himself

 

[modern.fakir]

[hilar][hilar][hilar][hilar]

What is your problem, what do you want to prove....if you are non muslim or munafiq tell us and come to the point directly......Tell me if your father is really your father? find it first before commenting and questioning Hadith e mubarika.....[/COLOR][/SIZE]

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

You have now understood the point Exactly, then why are you debating it ??:biggthumpup:

Everyone understands it to HIS ability. This is how it goes :

1. The Prophet Explained it

2. Everyone understood it according to THEIR ability :biggthumpup:

So why are you blaming me for a better explanation when im only reiterating my UNDERSTANDING :biggthumpup:

Did the Prophet pbuh ever assign YOU that task ??[hilar][hilar]

So you believe in Jahil Mullahs and their fake stories attributed to Prophet PBUH

Read this

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (Nun): '(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah. The name of the whale is Liwash, and it is said its name is Lutiaya'; the name of the bull is Bahamut, and some say its name is Talhut or Liyona. The whale is in a sea called 'Adwad, and it is like a small bull in a huge sea. The sea is in a hollowed rock whereby there is 4,000 cracks, and from each crack water springs out to the earth. It is also said that Nun is one of the names of the Lord; it stands for the letter Nun in Allah's name al-Rahman (the Beneficent); and it is also said that a Nun is an ink well. (By the pen) Allah swore by the pen. This pen is made of light and its height is equal to the distance between Heaven and earth. It is with this pen that the Wise Remembrance, i.e. the Guarded Tablet, was written. It is also said that the pen is one of the angels by whom Allah has sworn, (and that which they write (therewith)) and Allah also swore by what the angels write down of the works of the children of Adam,

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa...oraNo=68&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0

Earth on the wings of whale and horns of Bull [hilar]

O Fakera ....explain it too according to your understanding [hilar]

 

[modern.fakir]

punjabi, (bigsmile)..why you getting so Insecure ?..what are you getting yourself into ??.....If the debate is left to investigate your perception of the interpretation of certain religious texts, then we can have an intelligent conversation on how the real meaning is hidden in metaphorical terminology !.

Like i said, versus from ANY holy book are PRESENTED and interpreted in different ways depending on the Understanding of the people of that time. :biggthumpup:...This does not give anyone the right to question anyone else's beliefs !- not you, not anyone !

Let me show an example which maybe you can explain as to its significance according to your understanding :

Here is an excerpt from the "Song of Solomon of the Bible " and lets see what

Song of Songs 8:1-3"If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

Then further the versus say :

Song of Songs 7:10-12

10 I belong to my lover, and his desire is for me.
11 Come, my lover, let us go to the countryside, let us spend the night in the villages.
12 Let us go early to the vineyards to see if the vines have budded, if their blossoms have opened, and if the pomegranates are in bloom— there I will give you my love.(have sex in other words!)


So punjabi, the thing is that if we want to debate at a level beneficial for all then we can definitely talk about the mystical meaning of events, otherwise as you can see its very EASY for anyone to turn this conversation into obscurity from the literature we are presenting [hilar][hilar]

So you believe in Jahil Mullahs and their fake stories attributed to Prophet PBUH

Read this

Tafsir Ibn Abbas

And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (Nun): '(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah. The name of the whale is Liwash, and it is said its name is Lutiaya'; the name of the bull is Bahamut, and some say its name is Talhut or Liyona. The whale is in a sea called 'Adwad, and it is like a small bull in a huge sea. The sea is in a hollowed rock whereby there is 4,000 cracks, and from each crack water springs out to the earth. It is also said that Nun is one of the names of the Lord; it stands for the letter Nun in Allah's name al-Rahman (the Beneficent); and it is also said that a Nun is an ink well. (By the pen) Allah swore by the pen. This pen is made of light and its height is equal to the distance between Heaven and earth. It is with this pen that the Wise Remembrance, i.e. the Guarded Tablet, was written. It is also said that the pen is one of the angels by whom Allah has sworn, (and that which they write (therewith)) and Allah also swore by what the angels write down of the works of the children of Adam,

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMa...oraNo=68&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0

Earth on the wings of whale and horns of Bull [hilar]

O Fakera ....explain it too according to your understanding [hilar]

 

[Shahid Abassi]

No Hadith is not aways an explanation in itself. Some Hadith explain Quranic verses and some give additional guidlines. There are a vast number of hadith which needed tafseer and many books have been written by shcolars in this regard. Even the Fikah is an explaination of Quran and Hadith, both. Secondly, if Allah can leave a lot for the humans to explain, judge and drive then prophet can do that too.

Your belief that the arabs in prophets time only knew of two rivers is untrue. Every one who could know of Eupharat also must have known the great Tigris which flows very next to Eupharates. And who told you they only knew of two rivers? Mecca was a junction of trading route where traders from Africa, Iran and India came wih goods which then were transported by arab cammels to Damsacus. So non of those hundreds of travelers every year told arabs of great rivers of their lands?

Proofs of 4 of two rivers: (1) The people of of bible believe that Eden garden were on earth somewhere near turkey-Syria borders, and they believe that Eden was a peice of paradise sent to earth. (2) The bible narrates that 4 rivers flow/spring from Eden. But there is no history of any other rivers in the area prescribed for Eden than the two which still flow there today. (3) It is a common christian belief since older days that two of remaining rivers named in the bible are not on the earth but in the paradise. As only a piece of paradise (eden) was brought to earth, the piece only contains two of the 4 rivers which were in the paradise. (try Google it).

I do not think that Prophet PBUH left the explanation on you ...(anyway it is a hadith and it is not compulsory on you to defend it because there a number of of other Hadiths in these book which cannot be defended nowadays )

Remember .... In the old time Arabs were only aware of two big rivers Nile and Eupharates and did not know from where they are coming

How can you prove 4 or 2 rivers of Haven historically?

I do not think there is any comparison of rivers is being made in this Hadith

and you Know Hadith is always an explanation for People .... I do not think that you need to explain anything when Prophet PBUH already explained it

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

punjabi, (bigsmile)..why you getting so Insecure ?..what are you getting yourself into ??.....If the debate is left to investigate your perception of the interpretation of certain religious texts, then we can have an intelligent conversation on how the real meaning is hidden in metaphorical terminology !.

Like i said, versus from ANY holy book are PRESENTED and interpreted in different ways depending on the Understanding of the people of that time. :biggthumpup:...This does not give anyone the right to question anyone else's beliefs !- not you, not anyone !

Let me show an example which maybe you can explain as to its significance according to your understanding :

Here is an excerpt from the "Song of Solomon of the Bible " and lets see what

Song of Songs 8:1-3"If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

Then further the versus say :

Song of Songs 7:10-12

10 I belong to my lover, and his desire is for me.
11 Come, my lover, let us go to the countryside, let us spend the night in the villages.
12 Let us go early to the vineyards to see if the vines have budded, if their blossoms have opened, and if the pomegranates are in bloom— there I will give you my love.(have sex in other words!)


So punjabi, the thing is that if we want to debate at a level beneficial for all then we can definitely talk about the mystical meaning of events, otherwise as you can see its very EASY for anyone to turn this conversation into obscurity from the literature we are presenting [hilar][hilar]

Hahaahaaaaaaaaaaa

I think you should not try to desecrate the Jewish holy book by adding your won thoughts in brackets

These are songs and songs are always like songs

Here we are discussing Mullahs let us have our discussion limited to freaking Mullahs [hilar]

 

[Shahid Abassi]

No Hadith is not aways an explanation in itself. Some Hadith explain Quranic verses and some give additional guidlines. There are a vast number of hadith which needed tafseer and many books have been written by shcolars of fikah in this regard.

Your belief that the arabs in prophets time only knew of two rivers is untrue. Every one who could know of Eupharat also must have known the great Tigris which flows very next to Eupharates. And who told you they only knew of two rivers? Mecca was a junction of trading route where traders from Africa, Iran and India came wih goods which then were transported by arab cammels to Damsacus. So non of those hundreds of travelers every year told arabs of great rivers of their lands?

Proofs of 4 of two rivers: (1) The people of of bible believe that Eden garden were on earth somewhere near turkey-Syria borders, and they believe that Eden was a peice of paradise sent to earth. (2) The bible narrates that 4 rivers flow/spring from Eden. But there is no history of any other rivers in the area prescribed for Eden than the two which still flow there today. (3) It is a common christian belief since older days that two of remaining rivers named in the bible are not on the earth but in the paradise. As only a piece of paradise (eden) was brought to earth, the piece only contains two of the 4 rivers which were in the paradise. (try Google it).

I do not think that Prophet PBUH left the explanation on you ...(anyway it is a hadith and it is not compulsory on you to defend it because there a number of of other Hadiths in these book which cannot be defended nowadays )

Remember .... In the old time Arabs were only aware of two big rivers Nile and Eupharates and did not know from where they are coming

How can you prove 4 or 2 rivers of Haven historically?

I do not think there is any comparison of rivers is being made in this Hadith

and you Know Hadith is always an explanation for People .... I do not think that you need to explain anything when Prophet PBUH already explained it

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

No Hadith is not aways an explanation in itself. Some Hadith explain Quranic verses and some give additional guidlines. There are a vast number of hadith which needed tafseer and many books have been written by shcolars in this regard. Even the Fikah is an explaination of Quran and Hadith, both. Secondly, if Allah can leave a lot for the humans to explain, judge and drive then prophet can do that too.

Your belief that the arabs in prophets time only knew of two rivers is untrue. Every one who could know of Eupharat also must have known the great Tigris which flows very next to Eupharates. And who told you they only knew of two rivers? Mecca was a junction of trading route where traders from Africa, Iran and India came wih goods which then were transported by arab cammels to Damsacus. So non of those hundreds of travelers every year told arabs of great rivers of their lands?

Proofs of 4 of two rivers: (1) The people of of bible believe that Eden garden were on earth somewhere near turkey-Syria borders, and they believe that Eden was a peice of paradise sent to earth. (2) The bible narrates that 4 rivers flow/spring from Eden. But there is no history of any other rivers in the area prescribed for Eden than the two which still flow there today. (3) It is a common christian belief since older days that two of remaining rivers named in the bible are not on the earth but in the paradise. As only a piece of paradise (eden) was brought to earth, the piece only contains two of the 4 rivers which were in the paradise. (try Google it).

You are again just giving your thoughts here

Bible is online plz provide the verses which says the heaven is on Earth and in Turkey and there are four rivers .... It will increase my Knowledge about Abrahamic religions

If People of Arabia were aware of Indian people then there also be the mention of the Kafir beliefs of India too in our literature .... but we do not find any knowledge about Buddism and Hindusim in our religious literature

Plz provide the Proofs

 

[modern.fakir]

Can you please EXPLAIN the meaning of the above verses please ?? ....:lol:


The Old testament together with the new ones are considered sacred by the christians in the west. The evangelical born again christians even "believe" that jesus pbuh wont return until Biblical Israel is restored back to its original form. :biggthumpup:

That belief forms the basis of the west's staunchest support to the state of israel !.....You are quick to discuss mullahs but how about the western mullahs so are running their own great game and causing human suffering !!

Hahaahaaaaaaaaaaa

I think you should not try to desecrate the Jewish holy book by adding your won thoughts in brackets

These are songs and songs are always like songs

Here we are discussing Mullahs let us have our discussion limited to freaking Mullahs [hilar]

 

[غزالی]

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...8;انی&p=3516233#post3516233

 

[HIDDEN]

Punjabimundano1,

We are not advanced enough as a civilisation that we can understand every thing physically known to us and you are discussing unseen. Science is still evolving and new theories are being presented that amaze us. 100 years back, people didn't know about the possibility of time travel. People like you used to make fun of israa wal miraaj when Prophet spent several years travelling between different heavens on "Burraq". The name Burraq gives us a little idea about the speed of that horse. Now it is theorised that travelling at the speed of light releases from the bounds of time and space. So Prophet (SAW) coming back to his house after several years of travel and finding himself in the same moment of time when he (SAW) left, was really a point of fun for many people 100 years back. Now they don't want to talk about it.

Now theories are being presented about multiverse and additional dimensions which are not visible to us. It is theorised that if we enter another dimension without even changing our position, we will see a very different scene. Maybe same place another dimension is an uninhabited planet or simply space. How many dimensions are there? No one knows.

When Prophet says that a portion of the mosque is riyazuljannah (part of paradise), we as Muslims believe that it is part of paradise regardless current science proves contrary. Tomorrow, when scientists will prove multidimensional theory, riyazuljannah will make sense to a realist.


When he (SAW) said that shuhada are alive and they even eat but we don't have knowledge of it, then we believe what's said by Prophet SAW is correct. May be they are in another dimension.

Jinns are extra dimensional beings who have the power to enter our dimension. Similarly, angels are also extra dimensional beings who can enter all the dimensions except where they are not allowed to. Sidratul Muntaha might refer to another dimension where Prophet SAW entered but Jibrael said that his wings would burn.

By the way, science is very near to prove multiverse and multidimension theory. The experiments that are being conducted at CERN may prove the multidimension theory in very near future. Can you imagine that the physics books will need to be rewritten if this is proved?

Your questions are all related to knowledge of unseen. We Muslims do not question sahih ahadiths as we know that the knowledge contained in some of these ahadith books is unexplainable according to the current understanding of physics, but this knowledge is coming from the prophet of Allah. Allah who is "Rabbil Aalameen", not just rab of one alam.

 

[PUNJABIMUNDANO1]

Punjabimundano1,

We are not advanced enough as a civilisation that we can understand every thing physically known to us and you are discussing unseen. Science is still evolving and new theories are being presented that amaze us. 100 years back, people didn't know about the possibility of time travel. People like you used to make fun of israa wal miraaj when Prophet spent several years travelling between different heavens on "Burraq". The name Burraq gives us a little idea about the speed of that horse. Now it is theorised that travelling at the speed of light releases from the bounds of time and space. So Prophet (SAW) coming back to his house after several years of travel and finding himself in the same moment of time when he (SAW) left, was really a point of fun for many people 100 years back. Now they don't want to talk about it.

Now theories are being presented about multiverse and additional dimensions which are not visible to us. It is theorised that if we enter another dimension without even changing our position, we will see a very different scene. Maybe same place another dimension is an uninhabited planet or simply space. How many dimensions are there? No one knows.

When Prophet says that a portion of the mosque is riyazuljannah (part of paradise), we as Muslims believe that it is part of paradise regardless current science proves contrary. Tomorrow, when scientists will prove multidimensional theory, riyazuljannah will make sense to a realist.


When he (SAW) said that shuhada are alive and they even eat but we don't have knowledge of it, then we believe what's said by Prophet SAW is correct. May be they are in another dimension.

Jinns are extra dimensional beings who have the power to enter our dimension. Similarly, angels are also extra dimensional beings who can enter all the dimensions except where they are not allowed to. Sidratul Muntaha might refer to another dimension where Prophet SAW entered but Jibrael said that his wings would burn.

By the way, science is very near to prove multiverse and multidimension theory. The experiments that are being conducted at CERN may prove the multidimension theory in very near future. Can you imagine that the physics books will need to be rewritten if this is proved?

Your questions are all related to knowledge of unseen. We Muslims do not question sahih ahadiths as we know that the knowledge contained in some of these ahadith books is unexplainable according to the current understanding of physics, but this knowledge is coming from the prophet of Allah. Allah who is "Rabbil Aalameen", not just rab of one alam.

I am not saying Miraj never happened ... If God wants he can do anything

But I believe that this hadith I posted here on this forum has some pagan elements like Euphrates and Nile inducted into it by Arab Racist Gang

The explanation you are giving like parallel earth does not seems right here ... otherwise other rivers of this world must also be seen there in Sidratul Muntaha

Anyway, by such kind of explanations every phenomena can be justified even all the Karnamas of Hindu Gods

Why you guys are so adamant to defend this hadith of Bukhari ?

Do you know there are also a number of other ridiculous traditions in Bukhari too

Just a question

If all the knowledge of this universe has to be discovered by people themselves then what was the purpose of sending Prophets?
In the first Tafseer of Quran by ibn Abbas , He says Earth is floating on the fins of Whales and Horns of Bull

Why we do not accept that Religion is religion and Science is science ?

 

[HIDDEN]

I am not saying Miraj never happened ... If God wants he can do anything

You have just nailed it. If God (Allah) wants, He can do anything.

But I believe that this hadith I posted here on this forum has some pagan elements like Euphrates and Nile inducted into it by Arab Racist Gang

The explanation you are giving like parallel earth does not seems right here ... otherwise other rivers of this world must also be seen there in Sidratul Muntaha

We cannot say what's visible from Sidratul Muntaha. Only Allah SWT knows.

Two rivers have been made visible to the beings of this dimension. Is there any difficulty for Creator of the Multiverse in doing just this little task?

Anyway, by such kind of explanations every phenomena can be justified even all the Karnamas of Hindu Gods

Cannot comment on other religions. My opinion (but Allah knows best) is that Ram might be one of the 124000 prophets. Some prophets really showed great signs and powers. You have probably heard about Dhulqarnain, Khidhr and many more prophets who had great powers granted by Allah SWT.

What we believe is that corruption has occurred in other religions because of the corruption in their sacred books. Islam is free of corruption because Quran is still in the original form...

Why you guys are so adamant to defend this hadith of Bukhari ?

Do you know there are also a number of other ridiculous traditions in Bukhari too

Not defending Bukhari, but not discrediting it as well.

Just a question

If all the knowledge of this universe has to be discovered by people themselves then what was the purpose of sending Prophets?

Knowledge of universe can be obtained by ordinary scientists. Knowledge of Allah cannot. Prophets came to give us knowledge of Allah and what's unseen. That's why they are called Nabi. You should not expect a prophet to teach you how to make a supersonic jet. Allah ne is kainaat ko hamaray liey musakhar kar dia hai. Abb yeh hamara kaam hai kay hum kitni koshish kartay hain kainaat ko jaannay aur uss se faida uthanay ki.

Abb kainaat ko musakhar sab kay liey kia hai. Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Currently, non-Muslims are ahead of us because of our own foolishness. Whoever tries, finds new aspects and twists in science. When Muslims start trying, they will start gaining knowledge. There is no favoritism in the eyes of Allah SWT when it comes to hard work to gain duniya. Yes, there is favoritism in the matters of faith and when it comes to hard work to gain aakhira.

Our fault is that, we kept the duniya completely aside and tried gaining knowledge of religion only. And I really don't support this.

In the first Tafseer of Quran by ibn Abbas , He says Earth is floating on the fins of Whales and Horns of Bull

Again, we don't know about what's not seen. However, after multidimensional theory is proven correct (and we are almost there), you will not be able to prove it wrong. If Allah can make a Bull or whatever of this size (millions of times bigger than bacteria) in this dimension, what's stopping Him from creating another Bull of million and billions of times bigger than us in another dimension?

Why we do not accept that Religion is religion and Science is science ?

Who said that religion is science? What everyone proving here is that you cannot discredit religion using science. Because religion and faith, and knowledge of unseen is something beyond our understanding.

I also request everyone I meet to keep both the things separate.

However, look at your question and then tell me honestly, aren't you trying to discredit hadiths using incomplete knowledge of astrophysics? You are yourself bringing science to make fun of religion but when we respond you, you start asking us to keep both of them separate. Is this fair?