Havaldar Feroz Khan vs Indian Army - Kargil War,1999 (Pakistan Army)
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D'Invincible
Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Pakistan Army Chief VS Indian Army Chief ( the most popular video of youtube)
oh dear
The most popular video on youtube is "Baby" by Justin bieber. Here is link of the list you can take a look
http://www.youtube.com/charts/videos_views?t=a
:pakistan-flag-wavin
:13:
oh dear
The most popular video on youtube is "Baby" by Justin bieber. Here is link of the list you can take a look
http://www.youtube.com/charts/videos_views?t=a
:pakistan-flag-wavin
Unicorn
Banned
What is indian army doing exactly? If ours have been busy conquering our country, yours is always trying to but can't even capture kashmir and I will not even talk about other states where an army man can't take a single step while wearing a uniform.
Fact of the matter is that even in 1971, if behngalis weren't totally against us, indian army was to have the biggest defeat ever and if you deny it, you would look naive. The resistance was more than enough for indian forces and these are not my words as all of you must be acquainted with your army officials who said so. So if each home wasn't trying to kill our men, rest you can imagine. We know that hindu can fight too yet don't laugh upon history that you always failed to defend your state against invaders, be it any era. I criticize my army to the fullest yet it is true that they are the ones who are serving their lives to save this country. Ok! we are the ones who are always the problem. Can you please notify the role of your army where it tried to present a resolution that Pakistan shouldn't be considered an enemy anymore and some of the areas of conflict should be left to make peace. Keeping the vast plains of india, I am sure that a couple of thousand miles wouldn't even matter. Any gesture of friendship? Even if we are the bad guys, yours aren't good as well. We need to be bad because yours wouldn't leave the hostile attitude. Why did india get nepali monarchs again? How about bhutan, sikkim and laddakh? Why is it that our army conquers own country but you always try to invade others? I am not being irrational here. Try to think that why is india the one who would try to grab any part of land it can while already incapable of maintaining order in the existing state? How about addressing the extreme levels of poverty in own towns rather than trying to grab Pakistan, China, bangladesh etc. by throat. Why not spend the amount (for which you bought Sukhois) on those who don't have one bite of roti available and literally die of hunger. Why not facilitate bombay in such a manner that it shouldn't be called the capital of sex and AIDS anymore? But your army prefers buying arms rather than cutting its budget to the least. If your claims of our forces being nothing in front of yours are true, why is indian army always obsessed with buying any warfare equipment available, aren't they capable of single handedly beating us with the existing equipment? Mate, as a matter of fact, your army has enslaved your thoughts even more through perpetual propaganda when compared to our country. And I repeat, bangladesh wasn't possible if each home of that area wasn't against us. It would be a Vietnam for indian forces and you can't compare the might of US army with yours as well as our army was far stronger than Vietnam's. Try to do the math rather than going berserk upon things.
Fact of the matter is that even in 1971, if behngalis weren't totally against us, indian army was to have the biggest defeat ever and if you deny it, you would look naive. The resistance was more than enough for indian forces and these are not my words as all of you must be acquainted with your army officials who said so. So if each home wasn't trying to kill our men, rest you can imagine. We know that hindu can fight too yet don't laugh upon history that you always failed to defend your state against invaders, be it any era. I criticize my army to the fullest yet it is true that they are the ones who are serving their lives to save this country. Ok! we are the ones who are always the problem. Can you please notify the role of your army where it tried to present a resolution that Pakistan shouldn't be considered an enemy anymore and some of the areas of conflict should be left to make peace. Keeping the vast plains of india, I am sure that a couple of thousand miles wouldn't even matter. Any gesture of friendship? Even if we are the bad guys, yours aren't good as well. We need to be bad because yours wouldn't leave the hostile attitude. Why did india get nepali monarchs again? How about bhutan, sikkim and laddakh? Why is it that our army conquers own country but you always try to invade others? I am not being irrational here. Try to think that why is india the one who would try to grab any part of land it can while already incapable of maintaining order in the existing state? How about addressing the extreme levels of poverty in own towns rather than trying to grab Pakistan, China, bangladesh etc. by throat. Why not spend the amount (for which you bought Sukhois) on those who don't have one bite of roti available and literally die of hunger. Why not facilitate bombay in such a manner that it shouldn't be called the capital of sex and AIDS anymore? But your army prefers buying arms rather than cutting its budget to the least. If your claims of our forces being nothing in front of yours are true, why is indian army always obsessed with buying any warfare equipment available, aren't they capable of single handedly beating us with the existing equipment? Mate, as a matter of fact, your army has enslaved your thoughts even more through perpetual propaganda when compared to our country. And I repeat, bangladesh wasn't possible if each home of that area wasn't against us. It would be a Vietnam for indian forces and you can't compare the might of US army with yours as well as our army was far stronger than Vietnam's. Try to do the math rather than going berserk upon things.
TruPakistani
Minister (2k+ posts)
This is the actual history: (that is if you can take it)
Dead Reckoning by Sarmila Bose redefines 1971 history
SARMILA BOSE is Senior Research Fellow in the Politics of South Asia at the University of Oxford. She was a political journalist in India and combines academic and media work. She was educated at Bryn Mawr College and Harvard University.
Ms. Sharmila Bose in her paper entitled Losing the Victims: Problems of Using Women as Weapons in Recounting the Bangladesh War paints a picture of the Pakistani military as a disciplined force that spared women and children. She writes:
During my field research on several incidents in East Pakistan during 1971, Bangladeshi participants and eyewitnesses described battles, raids, massacres and executions, but told me that women were not harmed by the army in these events except by chance such as in crossfire. The pattern that emerged from these incidents was that the Pakistan army targeted adult males while sparing women and children.
She also quotes the passage from the Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report that I cited above to support her assertion that so many rapes could not have occurred. 20,000-34,000 could not have raped 200,000 to 400,000 women in the space of nine months.
She states in the introduction:
That rape occurred in East Pakistan in 1971 has never been in any doubt. The question is what was the true extent of rape, who were the victims and who the perpetrators and was there any systematic policy of rape by any party, as opposed to opportunistic sexual crimes in times of war.
To try to bolster her argument that the Pakistani forces in Bangladesh could not have raped so many women, she claims:
The number of West Pakistani armed forces personnel in East Pakistan was about 20,000 at the beginning of the conflict, rising to 34,000 by December. Another 11,000 men civil police and non-combat personnel also held arms.
For an army of 34,000 to rape on this scale in eight or nine months (while fighting insurgency, guerrilla war and an invasion by India), each would-be perpetrator would have had to commit rape at an incredible rate.
There are numerous reports out there now which negates the well established beliefs. The declassified US reports, Indian military officers account, Pakistan military officers account, General Niazis memoirs, Sharmila Bose, Hamoodurahman commission report.
Pakistan Military officers fought hard. Many foreign correspondents speak well of their bravery. It is the bravery of a Muslim soldier that Indian Military got tough fight. These Pakistani Mard-e-Momin fought so hard that they had almost regained the control of East Pakistan from the dirty hands of Mukt-Bahini. When India saw this, She then started the military action which resulted in the fall of Dhaka.
Then Mujib showed his true colors after the formation of Bangladesh with his BAKSAL party. How he became authoritative and usurped democracy is not a secret anymore. He was going to make Bangladesh part of India that he was killed timely by the Pakistani military officers (yes those Bengalis who never gave up allegiance to Pakistan. I stand in honor for them).
http://www.hurstpub.co.uk/BookDetails.aspx?BookId=575
Dead Reckoning by Sarmila Bose redefines 1971 history
Ms. Sharmila Bose is the niece of the famous Bharati leader Netaji Shuvash Chandra Bose. Mrs. Bose is married to Alan Rosling, a British man. He is the Executive Director of Tata, one of India. Sharmila Bose is also the sister of the Indian scholar
Sugata Bose who with his partner, the Pakistani scholar,
Ayesha Jalal teaches at Tufts University in Boston. Both are well-known academics in the US circuit.
This ground-breaking book chronicles the 1971 war in South Asia by reconstituting the memories of those on opposing sides of the conflict. 1971 was marked by a bitter civil war within Pakistan and war between India and Pakistan, backed respectively by the Soviet Union and the United States. It was fought over the territory of East Pakistan, which seceded to become Bangladesh. Through a detailed investigation of events on the ground, Sarmila Bose contextualises and humanises the war while analysing what the events reveal about the nature of the conflict itself. The story of 1971 has so far been dominated by the narrative of the victorious side. All parties to the war are still largely imprisoned by wartime partisan mythologies. Bose reconstructs events via interviews conducted in Bangladesh and Pakistan, published and unpublished reminiscences in Bengali and English of participants on all sides, official documents, foreign media reports and other sources. Her book challenges assumptions about the nature of the conflict, and exposes the ways in which the 1971 war is still playing out in the region.
SARMILA BOSE is Senior Research Fellow in the Politics of South Asia at the University of Oxford. She was a political journalist in India and combines academic and media work. She was educated at Bryn Mawr College and Harvard University.
Ms. Sharmila Bose in her paper entitled Losing the Victims: Problems of Using Women as Weapons in Recounting the Bangladesh War paints a picture of the Pakistani military as a disciplined force that spared women and children. She writes:
During my field research on several incidents in East Pakistan during 1971, Bangladeshi participants and eyewitnesses described battles, raids, massacres and executions, but told me that women were not harmed by the army in these events except by chance such as in crossfire. The pattern that emerged from these incidents was that the Pakistan army targeted adult males while sparing women and children.
She also quotes the passage from the Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report that I cited above to support her assertion that so many rapes could not have occurred. 20,000-34,000 could not have raped 200,000 to 400,000 women in the space of nine months.
She states in the introduction:
That rape occurred in East Pakistan in 1971 has never been in any doubt. The question is what was the true extent of rape, who were the victims and who the perpetrators and was there any systematic policy of rape by any party, as opposed to opportunistic sexual crimes in times of war.
To try to bolster her argument that the Pakistani forces in Bangladesh could not have raped so many women, she claims:
The number of West Pakistani armed forces personnel in East Pakistan was about 20,000 at the beginning of the conflict, rising to 34,000 by December. Another 11,000 men civil police and non-combat personnel also held arms.
For an army of 34,000 to rape on this scale in eight or nine months (while fighting insurgency, guerrilla war and an invasion by India), each would-be perpetrator would have had to commit rape at an incredible rate.
There are numerous reports out there now which negates the well established beliefs. The declassified US reports, Indian military officers account, Pakistan military officers account, General Niazis memoirs, Sharmila Bose, Hamoodurahman commission report.
Pakistan Military officers fought hard. Many foreign correspondents speak well of their bravery. It is the bravery of a Muslim soldier that Indian Military got tough fight. These Pakistani Mard-e-Momin fought so hard that they had almost regained the control of East Pakistan from the dirty hands of Mukt-Bahini. When India saw this, She then started the military action which resulted in the fall of Dhaka.
Then Mujib showed his true colors after the formation of Bangladesh with his BAKSAL party. How he became authoritative and usurped democracy is not a secret anymore. He was going to make Bangladesh part of India that he was killed timely by the Pakistani military officers (yes those Bengalis who never gave up allegiance to Pakistan. I stand in honor for them).
http://www.hurstpub.co.uk/BookDetails.aspx?BookId=575
TruPakistani
Minister (2k+ posts)
This is what happened to the traitor who was one of the master minds of creation of Bangladesh.
Following the independence of Bangladesh in December 1971, Mujib was released from custody in Pakistan. He became the Prime Minister and later President of the newly formed state. He soon established a system of one-party rule, banned all the newspapers except for government publications, and declared himself life-long president through a constitutional amendment in early 1975. His declaration of one party rule was opposed by many political opponents. Corruption started to spread during those initial years of Bangladeshi independence. Rahman had to face the disastrous aftermath of the 1971 war.
The Jatiyo Rakkhi Bahini (National Vanguards) was a highly controversial political militia force formed in 1975 with a status of an elite force which was loyal to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. It was assigned an apparent functionality of recovering arms from the civilians but actually acted as an armament to protect the Sheikh Mujibur Rahman-regime from military coup and other armed challenges. Jatiyo Rakkhi Bahini is considered one of the main ingredients of discontent among the army and the assassination of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman as well.
Conspirators
Colonel (was Major in August 1975) Syed Faruque Rahman, Abdur Rashid, Sharful Haque (Dalim), Mohiuddin Ahmed and A.K.M. Mohiuddin Ahmed, all majors in the Bangladesh Armyand veterans of Mukti Bahini, hatched a conspiracy, the standard account of which is chronicled in Bangladesh: A Legacy of Blood by Anthony Mascarenhas. Khondaker Mostaq Ahmed, an Awami League cabinet minister under Mujib rule, agreed to take over the Presidency. Journalist Lawrence Lifschultz paints an alternative picture of the conspiracy, implicating Mustaque and the CIA as participants. It is alleged that the chief of the army General Shafiullah and defence intelligence were unaware of the conspiracy. However, Mujib relied more on Rakshi Bahini, a militia, rather than the army, for his ultimate security.
Events
In the early morning of August 15, 1975, the conspirators were divided into three groups. One group attacked Mujib's house in road number 32, Dhanmondi Residential Area, Dhaka. Mujib was killed on the stairs, and all the members of his family were also killed except for his two daughters, Sheikh Hasina and Sheikh Rehana, who were in West Germany at the time. Two other groups of soldiers killed Sheikh Fazlul Haque (Moni), Mujib's nephew and influential leader of the Awami League, and Abdur Rab Serniabat, Mujib's brother-in-law, and a minister of the Government. Three months later, four major leaders of the Awami League, first Prime Minister of Bangladesh Tajuddin Ahmed, former Prime Minister Mansur Ali, formerVice President Syed Nazrul Islam and former Home Minister A H M Kamruzzaman were arrested and jailed (they would later be murdered in jail on November 4, 1975).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Sheikh_Mujibur_Rahman
Following the independence of Bangladesh in December 1971, Mujib was released from custody in Pakistan. He became the Prime Minister and later President of the newly formed state. He soon established a system of one-party rule, banned all the newspapers except for government publications, and declared himself life-long president through a constitutional amendment in early 1975. His declaration of one party rule was opposed by many political opponents. Corruption started to spread during those initial years of Bangladeshi independence. Rahman had to face the disastrous aftermath of the 1971 war.
The Jatiyo Rakkhi Bahini (National Vanguards) was a highly controversial political militia force formed in 1975 with a status of an elite force which was loyal to Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. It was assigned an apparent functionality of recovering arms from the civilians but actually acted as an armament to protect the Sheikh Mujibur Rahman-regime from military coup and other armed challenges. Jatiyo Rakkhi Bahini is considered one of the main ingredients of discontent among the army and the assassination of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman as well.
Conspirators
Colonel (was Major in August 1975) Syed Faruque Rahman, Abdur Rashid, Sharful Haque (Dalim), Mohiuddin Ahmed and A.K.M. Mohiuddin Ahmed, all majors in the Bangladesh Armyand veterans of Mukti Bahini, hatched a conspiracy, the standard account of which is chronicled in Bangladesh: A Legacy of Blood by Anthony Mascarenhas. Khondaker Mostaq Ahmed, an Awami League cabinet minister under Mujib rule, agreed to take over the Presidency. Journalist Lawrence Lifschultz paints an alternative picture of the conspiracy, implicating Mustaque and the CIA as participants. It is alleged that the chief of the army General Shafiullah and defence intelligence were unaware of the conspiracy. However, Mujib relied more on Rakshi Bahini, a militia, rather than the army, for his ultimate security.
Events
In the early morning of August 15, 1975, the conspirators were divided into three groups. One group attacked Mujib's house in road number 32, Dhanmondi Residential Area, Dhaka. Mujib was killed on the stairs, and all the members of his family were also killed except for his two daughters, Sheikh Hasina and Sheikh Rehana, who were in West Germany at the time. Two other groups of soldiers killed Sheikh Fazlul Haque (Moni), Mujib's nephew and influential leader of the Awami League, and Abdur Rab Serniabat, Mujib's brother-in-law, and a minister of the Government. Three months later, four major leaders of the Awami League, first Prime Minister of Bangladesh Tajuddin Ahmed, former Prime Minister Mansur Ali, formerVice President Syed Nazrul Islam and former Home Minister A H M Kamruzzaman were arrested and jailed (they would later be murdered in jail on November 4, 1975).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Sheikh_Mujibur_Rahman
Unicorn
Banned
You r right on Bangladesh Indian army would have never gone there it was your own blunder that caused this whole fiasco but you love to shift the blame on someone ells.
I will still say that India has never attacked Pakistan. In 1965 India was not prepared for war and was not expecting any hostility from Pakistan. Only after 1965 India decided to invest large amount of money on defense.
after all your barking, how does it matter? we won all the wars against you. everyone accepts that in the world. like everything else if you wanna put your head into sand, then very good. nobody cares what you think, because there is only one mainstream version of truth everyone agrees to.
as for sharmila bose's book, please read the book in its entirety instead of copying and reading excerpts from here and there. the overall idea of the book is very different from what you think it is.
the idea of pakistan seperated by 1000 miles of indian territory was anyways unfeasible especially after the foundation of hostile relations between the india and pakistan were laid out. no use crying over spilt milk, b'ladesh is better off without your hegemony and the bengalis are very happy. mujib was never interested in making b;desh part of india and neither was mrs. gandhi interested. so stop putting out stupid lies. and whether you call him a traitor or not, he is the founding father bongo-bandhu of bladesh and his daughter sheikh hasina is the current PM. so stop crying urself hoarse.
you pakistani cyber-mujahids are just sore loosers and you deserve every further loss that the world and india is going to inflict on you. and i can assure you if you continue this way there will be many more b'ladeshs to come.
as for sharmila bose's book, please read the book in its entirety instead of copying and reading excerpts from here and there. the overall idea of the book is very different from what you think it is.
the idea of pakistan seperated by 1000 miles of indian territory was anyways unfeasible especially after the foundation of hostile relations between the india and pakistan were laid out. no use crying over spilt milk, b'ladesh is better off without your hegemony and the bengalis are very happy. mujib was never interested in making b;desh part of india and neither was mrs. gandhi interested. so stop putting out stupid lies. and whether you call him a traitor or not, he is the founding father bongo-bandhu of bladesh and his daughter sheikh hasina is the current PM. so stop crying urself hoarse.
you pakistani cyber-mujahids are just sore loosers and you deserve every further loss that the world and india is going to inflict on you. and i can assure you if you continue this way there will be many more b'ladeshs to come.
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TruPakistani
Minister (2k+ posts)
Your response proves that your a dog, go find some bone to chew on and don't waste our time.
tu yahan par kia kar raha hay *****, tumhari government nay tu deserter to vir chakar day dia tha, hum aur humaray soliders will f u c k india soon, watch my word you will remember when you will hear the sound it is radio pakistan dehli
SINGH KING
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Thats how you fought 71 war and then surrender
Thats how your army raped bangla ladies and took revenge
Thats what u guys did in kargill
and last thing jab tak sikh india main hai delhi to bahut door aap amritsar vi cross nahin kar sakte
Thats how your army raped bangla ladies and took revenge
Thats what u guys did in kargill
and last thing jab tak sikh india main hai delhi to bahut door aap amritsar vi cross nahin kar sakte
TruPakistani
Minister (2k+ posts)
TruPakistani
Minister (2k+ posts)
The truth from your own:
Mate this is what I am talking about. We don't know what military plays with us. We just keep on thinking that they are heroes though generally they make us believe in things. I don't think the intel wings of indian army were sleeping in 1965, everything was there but these agencies and army itself too needs issues in order to keep its status as well as constant funding. What do we think why russia attacked afghanistan for? Didn't it have enough land in itself or enough money etc.? The real reason was that such a military might and a military machine of such magnitude needed a playground for its soldiers. To make military industrial complexes flourish, they can go to any extent. Why do you think us is encouraging india to set foot in afghanistan? America clearly knows that india can never get a proper footing in afghanistan and it will have to keep on pumping new ammo in its military machine and another front has been opened for the indian army which is already occupied at so many fronts. So the military industrial complex will flourish at the end. Lets look at this another way too. You must be acquainted with america's military budget it is roughly 900 billion us dollars. Now think what the americans are doing to its own people. Had they wanted peace, they could have had invested 900 billion dollars in afghanistan for 5 years, the same in Pakistan for 5 years and the same in india for 5 years (and with their monitoring teams who would ensure that each penny was spent on the right spot for development). And after these 15 years, we would all say, china..... who?????? conflicts.... what????? But then again how would the mighty corporations get maximum cut out of these humongous amounts? Now why I criticize indian army more is that they were always more into getting these funds and buying ammo from wherever they could as well as keeping the super power dream alive so our army had all the excuses in the world to tell us that we need this and this to reciprocate. I would not be surprised if 1971 dhaka fall was a mutual agreement between indra and bhutto for getting rid of managing a part of the country which was thousands of miles away as well as getting both families the heavenly right to rule like legends (indra was revered for taking revenge of a 1000 years whilst bhuttos got this overwhelming following throughout this part of Pakistan) and poor soldiers along with civilians had to pay the price. Of course, both bhutto and gandhi families had to pay the price for so many innocent lives. I can discuss rational aspects for days to come yet I believe that indian army is the one who needs to calm down in order to make peace in this region or this will only get uglier by the passage of time. Funnily, I exactly know that this is not going to stop as well and know the reasons too which include the military corporations of both countries & the world but not limited to them.
Zaidi Qasim
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Showing me a piece of liberal outburst against our own country and army is not a proof of Jinnah attack on Kashmir. You didn't answer my question on your own winners in Kashmir. I like you to open your biased eyes and see what kind of atrocities your army with the consent of your own Governemnt is committing to the population of Kashmir. The foreign media is not allowed in to the area where lots of mass graves were just discovered.
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Zaidi Qasim
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Looks like singh king hasn't got any video of golden temple and its surrounded atmosphere while Hindus busy burning the ornaments . They did that with Babri Masjid as well and many other christians places within India. Why not place some of those Hindu heroes who were invloved with it ??
Unicorn
Banned
I strongly believe that Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in response to the U2 spy plane that took off from Peshawar air base and shot down by Russian. India did not win the proxy war in Afghanistan. I believe after US leaves Afghanistan there will be a proxy war India has influence in northern Afghanistan. India's odds of winning the proxy war are remote unless helped by US, Russia and Iran.
Its more the reason for Pakistan to co-operate with US so that when they leave, Afghanistan is left neutral. US looks after its own interests It would have been very difficult for US to AID the Talabans with billions after 9-11.
I cant find the source of the news by your establishment on Indra Gandhi's sayings. Like we took revenge for 1000 yr and many other quotes. I would love to find the source for these statements. They do not exist. If they exist than you must present the source of these false news.
This is what I from the monolog of Javid Choudry (Kal Tak): A major walks in to the office of a brigadier in 1965 and said " Sir we have lost the war" Brigadier replied " yes but very soon we will deal with them through our Bollywood". Again no source I love to hear his monolog.:lol:
Mate why do you pick on words. Whether indra made this statement or not, wanted to point something out which is obvious that it got her reverence in india. Moreover, if russia was angry at us, it would have had attacked us as it had no problems in doing so. Its military might is still bigger than the US. Yaar 9/11 was a false flag attack and everybody knows it, come on, do you still buy it? I was just telling the approach of establishing actual peace rather than what is going on these days. Anyway, no worries, cheers.
love you pak
MPA (400+ posts)
