قاسم کے ابا اداروں سے مستفید ہوتے ہیں تو انہیں باپ بنالیتے ہیں، وزیراعظم

[RajaRawal111]

What is there you cannot understand? If you do not know the history, then it is not my problem.

Implement 246/7 in its true letter and spirit.
Else, stop blaming India for abrogation of article 370.
We are dealing with Baluchistan as India is dealing with Kashmir. Period.

Gave you the most precise answer in a nutshell, what you were looking for. Saving you the hassle of reading too much.
BTW, I am still here. Educate me with some material in support of your ideas.

Paa jee, this is the first time I got the impression that you just wanted to win the discussion. Whereas I always discuss things with you to gain knowledge. The different opinion I put is actually a question.

I would ask you now to read Article 247 and tell me which part is not being implemented which instigates an armed revolt. I am open, please teach me one by one with respect to the sub-clauses of 247.

Right at the face is 247(1)
which states that the executive Authority of Federation and Provinces shall extend to the respective tribal areas.

Please get out of this impression that the Constitution provides them something which is not being given to them. If this was not the case then you should have been able to write a book in response to my post No 47. You are a very much capable and learned person.

This is a big Money Machine and people are criminals are running this money machine. That is the truth.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Paa jee, this is the first time I got the impression that you just wanted to win the discussion. Whereas I always discuss things with you to gain knowledge. The different opinion I put is actually a question.

I, as always, have given you the right chapters to learn from history and law. But it is the first time I am seeing your response as like "Making Lassi" of history and all that. Now tell me who is up to wining an argument?

I would ask you now to read Article 247 and tell me which part is not being implemented which instigates an armed revolt. I am open, please teach me one by one with respect to the sub-clauses of 247.

Rajay, this is what happens when you read to respond and not to understand.
I think I have mentioned it various times on this thread that Article 246/7 do not exist anymore. THEY HAVE BEEN REPEALED VIA 25th AMENDMENT of the Constitution. Can you read and understand this?

Right at the face is 247(1)
which states that the executive Authority of Federation and Provinces shall extend to the respective tribal areas.

Please get out of this impression that the Constitution provides them something which is not being given to them. If this was not the case then you should have been able to write a book in response to my post No 47. You are a very much capable and learned person.

This is a big Money Machine and people are criminals are running this money machine. That is the truth.

See above or else, understand that

بھینس کے آگے بین بجانے کا مجھے کوئی شوق نہیں۔
​

Otherwise, also read the President's S.R.O 118(i) 2011 dated 10th Feb 2011 for further clarity.

 

[RajaRawal111]

I, as always, have given you the right chapters to learn from history and law. But it is the first time I am seeing your response as like "Making Lassi" of history and all that. Now tell me who is up to wining an argument?

Rajay, this is what happens when you read to respond and not to understand.
I think I have mentioned it various times on this thread that Article 246/7 do not exist anymore. THEY HAVE BEEN REPEALED VIA 25th AMENDMENT of the Constitution. Can you read and understand this?


See above or else, understand that

بھینس کے آگے بین بجانے کا مجھے کوئی شوق نہیں۔
​

Otherwise, also read the President's S.R.O 118(i) 2011 dated 10th Feb 2011 for further clarity.

Good I will go through your stuff and get back to you. Later.
Please dont get Naraaz with me.

 

[RajaRawal111]

I, as always, have given you the right chapters to learn from history and law. But it is the first time I am seeing your response as like "Making Lassi" of history and all that. Now tell me who is up to wining an argument?

Rajay, this is what happens when you read to respond and not to understand.
I think I have mentioned it various times on this thread that Article 246/7 do not exist anymore. THEY HAVE BEEN REPEALED VIA 25th AMENDMENT of the Constitution. Can you read and understand this?


See above or else, understand that

بھینس کے آگے بین بجانے کا مجھے کوئی شوق نہیں۔
​

Otherwise, also read the President's S.R.O 118(i) 2011 dated 10th Feb 2011 for further clarity.

جناب اے مج بڑی ذوق والی اے تسی اچھی بین وجاو تے جھوم جاۓ گی -- تسی سادی پیں پیں لائی اے تے مج وچاری کے کرے
And I know that the tribal areas are now adjusted in the provinces and the Articles are not effective. It is you who was pushing me to this non-issue. These articles say nothing other than saying that the decisions of Pakistani Parliaments will not apply without presidential or governor's special approvals. This is not the issue. They were fighting even before this constitution, they fought after this constitution, and they are still fighting after their status is changed. And this change in status was welcomed. As people got the full right to vote. They got the long administrative issues resolved which were never controlled
I always try to come up a solution and fix the broken things. I just dont keep crying over the issues. So I asked you about their demands and you could not give me a single. Come on Paa je consider me a مج and speak at the مج level. Tell me something that we can fix and solve this issue.
The reality is that you dont have ANY ANSWER. You dont know what they want which can be given to a sprinter group in this year of 2024.
What the hell they will d if we give them full independence
1: Would they establish schools and introduce their own curriculum which will bring their children above the rest of the country?
2: Would they establish state-of-the-art hospitals in which people from all over the world come and get treatment?
3: they will make the airports?
4: Set us the industrial zones where top quality Chars will be made after rigorous R&D
What the Eff they will do ??

Tell me, please

 

[RajaRawal111]

I, as always, have given you the right chapters to learn from history and law. But it is the first time I am seeing your response as like "Making Lassi" of history and all that. Now tell me who is up to wining an argument?

Rajay, this is what happens when you read to respond and not to understand.
I think I have mentioned it various times on this thread that Article 246/7 do not exist anymore. THEY HAVE BEEN REPEALED VIA 25th AMENDMENT of the Constitution. Can you read and understand this?


See above or else, understand that

بھینس کے آگے بین بجانے کا مجھے کوئی شوق نہیں۔
​

Otherwise, also read the President's S.R.O 118(i) 2011 dated 10th Feb 2011 for further clarity.

In case you could not tell me what the good hell they will bring with their total independence then please listen to me.
There is a money Machine behind this.
Few disappeared might have a reason. It is not that every male from these areas is missing.
Please stop picking up the matter from the middle and ignoring the killing that is happening in these areas. Every criminal has a family. They choose their way and there are consequences that they know about.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

جناب اے مج بڑی ذوق والی اے --

مجاں دا زوق ونڈا تے شوق جگالی ای ہوندا اے​

This is not the issue.

Really?

They were fighting even before this constitution, they fought after this constitution, and they are still fighting after their status is changed.

Now you are getting where I asked you in the start to start from. Why do you think I posted this?
https://twitter.com/x/status/595295132800409600
Even I told you about the aftermath of the One Unit Policy of 1955.

لیکن مج کو بین سنائی نہیں دی۔
ابھی اور تاریخ پڑھے گا تو اور بھی بہت کچھ سمجھ آئے گی۔ ​

And this change in status was welcomed. As people got the full right to vote. They got the long administrative issues resolved which were never controlled
I always try to come up a solution and fix the broken things. I just dont keep crying over the issues. So I asked you about their demands and you could not give me a single. Come on Paa je consider me a مج and speak at the مج level. Tell me something that we can fix and solve this issue.
The reality is that you dont have ANY ANSWER. You dont know what they want which can be given to a sprinter group in this year of 2024.
What the hell they will d if we give them full independence
1: Would they establish schools and introduce their own curriculum which will bring their children above the rest of the country?
2: Would they establish state-of-the-art hospitals in which people from all over the world come and get treatment?
3: they will make the airports?
4: Set us the industrial zones where top quality Chars will be made after rigorous R&D
What the Eff they will do ??

Tell me, please

The same arguments as of Mr. Modi, about repealing article 370 in Kashmir.
Then why this fascist bigotry? Accept that Modi did to Kashmir what we exactly did to Baluchistan and the Tribal areas.

 

[RajaRawal111]

مجاں دا زوق ونڈا تے شوق جگالی ای ہوندا اے​

Really?


Now you are getting where I asked you in the start to start from. Why do you think I posted this?
https://twitter.com/x/status/595295132800409600
Even I told you about the aftermath of the One Unit Policy of 1955.

لیکن مج کو بین سنائی نہیں دی۔
ابھی اور تاریخ پڑھے گا تو اور بھی بہت کچھ سمجھ آئے گی۔ ​

The same arguments as of Mr. Modi, about repealing article 370 in Kashmir.
Then why this fascist bigotry? Accept that Modi did to Kashmir what we exactly did to Baluchistan and the Tribal areas.

I want to end it here paa je because we are not going anywhere. We have totally different opinions about WAY FORWARD.

I want a solution and you are, (as I said earlier) quite tuned to make لسی of the history. One unit was stupidity which did not last very long. You can keep pushing it in and call it a reason for Bangladesh formation. In reality, Bangladesh was a different issue and had its own dynamics. Similarly, you are trying to put Kashmir in as a comparison, which is again not comparable here.

You totally failed to tell me their demands. Because you do not know what these are. You are just accepting their right to fight because they were not under British rule in 1947.
What if i do not accept what my own Grandfather Raja Karam Din did, (which is living in the areas of British rule). Why can't i have my own independent land?

تسی انگلینڈوں اپنے بندے لے کے آ جاوؤ اتھے بحریہ ٹاؤن وچ قبضہ کر کننے اں - کوئی مشکل نہیں بحریہ ٹاؤن نی سکیورٹی میچو ساری اے - کلاشن کوفاں نے دو دو چھٹے لاساں سے ساری فارغ ہو ویسی
میں صدر بن گچساں تے تسی پڑھے لکے او تساں کی وزیر اعظم بنائی چھوڑنے آں
کے خیال اے ؟

 

[Sohail Shuja]

I want to end it here paa je because we are not going anywhere. We have totally different opinions about WAY FORWARD.

I want a solution and you are, (as I said earlier) quite tuned to make لسی of the history. One unit was stupidity which did not last very long. You can keep pushing it in and call it a reason for Bangladesh formation. In reality, Bangladesh was a different issue and had its own dynamics. Similarly, you are trying to put Kashmir in as a comparison, which is again not comparable here.

You totally failed to tell me their demands. Because you do not know what these are. You are just accepting their right to fight because they were not under British rule in 1947.
What if i do not accept what my own Grandfather Raja Karam Din did, (which is living in the areas of British rule). Why can't i have my own independent land?

تسی انگلینڈوں اپنے بندے لے کے آ جاوؤ اتھے بحریہ ٹاؤن وچ قبضہ کر کننے اں - کوئی مشکل نہیں بحریہ ٹاؤن نی سکیورٹی میچو ساری اے - کلاشن کوفاں نے دو دو چھٹے لاساں سے ساری فارغ ہو ویسی
میں صدر بن گچساں تے تسی پڑھے لکے او تساں کی وزیر اعظم بنائی چھوڑنے آں
کے خیال اے ؟

سوچ اگر کسی دن بحریہ ٹاوٗن کے چوکیدار تیرے گھر پر چڑھائی کر دیں کہ راجہ اپنے گھر کی صفائی کا خیال نہیں رکھتا، لہٰذا ہم راجے کے گھر ا قبضہ سنبھال لیتے ہیں اور راجے کو اسی کے گھر میں خاکروب بھرتی کر لیتے ہیں۔ اسطرح بحریہ ٹاوٗن کی شان بھی بڑھے گی اور باقی گھروں میں بدبو بھی نہیں جایا کرے گی۔ پھر کیا کرو گے راجہ صاحب؟

میرا تو خیال ہے کہ آپکا بحریہ ٹاوٗن والوں کے ساتھ معاہدہ ہوا ہے کہ اس گھر کے مالکانہ حقوق آپ کے پاس ہیں۔ بحریہ ٹاوٗن کے باقی قوانین آپ ماننے کے پابند ہوسکتے ہیں، جیسے کہ سرِعام کوڑہ نہ جلانا یا گلی میں کوڑہ نہ پھینکنا وغیرہ۔

تو ابھی تک اگر آپکو یہ سمجھ نہیں آسکی کہ قبائلی علاقے کا یا کسی آزاد ریاست کا پاکستان کے ساتھ الحاق کا مطلب کیا ہوتا ہے تو آپ کی عقل کسی بھینس سے بڑائی کے مقابلے میں بلکل ایسے ہی جیتی ہے جیسے آنے والے الیکشن میں نون لیگ جیتے گی، یعنی بِنا مقابلہ۔
مجھے بین بجانے کا شوق نہیں​

 

[RajaRawal111]

سوچ اگر کسی دن بحریہ ٹاوٗن کے چوکیدار تیرے گھر پر چڑھائی کر دیں کہ راجہ اپنے گھر کی صفائی کا خیال نہیں رکھتا، لہٰذا ہم راجے کے گھر ا قبضہ سنبھال لیتے ہیں اور راجے کو اسی کے گھر میں خاکروب بھرتی کر لیتے ہیں۔ اسطرح بحریہ ٹاوٗن کی شان بھی بڑھے گی اور باقی گھروں میں بدبو بھی نہیں جایا کرے گی۔ پھر کیا کرو گے راجہ صاحب؟

میرا تو خیال ہے کہ آپکا بحریہ ٹاوٗن والوں کے ساتھ معاہدہ ہوا ہے کہ اس گھر کے مالکانہ حقوق آپ کے پاس ہیں۔ بحریہ ٹاوٗن کے باقی قوانین آپ ماننے کے پابند ہوسکتے ہیں، جیسے کہ سرِعام کوڑہ نہ جلانا یا گلی میں کوڑہ نہ پھینکنا وغیرہ۔

تو ابھی تک اگر آپکو یہ سمجھ نہیں آسکی کہ قبائلی علاقے کا یا کسی آزاد ریاست کا پاکستان کے ساتھ الحاق کا مطلب کیا ہوتا ہے تو آپ کی عقل کسی بھینس سے بڑائی کے مقابلے میں بلکل ایسے ہی جیتی ہے جیسے آنے والے الیکشن میں نون لیگ جیتے گی، یعنی بِنا مقابلہ۔
مجھے بین بجانے کا شوق نہیں​

سرکار ناں تے دسو اس مظلوم نا جس نے گھر وچ سکیورٹی نے قبضہ کیتا ہے - اور اس کی خاکروب برتی کیتا ہے - اس مظلومیت والی کہانی نا لنک شنک وی دیو

ماج سوچی پئی اے کہ تساں نی بین وچوں پیں پیں آنی کتھوں پئی اے
اے مج آٹ نہیں سینس زیادہ پسند کرنی اے

 

[Sohail Shuja]

سرکار ناں تے دسو اس مظلوم نا جس نے گھر وچ سکیورٹی نے قبضہ کیتا ہے - اور اس کی خاکروب برتی کیتا ہے -

اسی میرا خیال اے ایتھے گلگت بلتستان یا فیر آزاد جموں و کشمیر دی گل کر رئے آں؟
جیناں دی اسمبلی علٰیحدہ، قانون علٰیحدہ تے بجٹ وی وکھرا
میں بھُل گیا راجے، اسی ایتھے کس دی گل کر رئے ساں؟ اس ناں ناں کی اے؟
تے لگدا اے مینوں اے وی نئیں معلوم کہ علیٰحدہ ریاست یا قبائلی علاقہ کیہڑی شے ہوندی اے۔ مینوں بس دس نمبر دی گوٹی دا تے بارہ نمبر سے پانے توں علاوہ کھوتے نے سِر نا سی نئی معلوم کہ کہیڑے پاسے ہوندا اے؟

چل ذرا ٹیکنیکل ہو یا ایں تے ہک گل تے دس کہ پنجاب، سندھ تے خیبر پختونخواہ اچ تے بلوچستان اچ گیس ویل ہیڈ دی پرائس گورنمنٹ نے کی لائی ہوئی اے؟ تے کیا فیڈرل گونمنٹ اپنی مرضی تو یکطرفہ فیصلہ کر کے پورے پاکستان اچ سوئی دی گیس ویچ سکدی اے؟ ویچ تے خیر سکدی آ، بلکہ اینا ویچ چھوڑی اے ۔۔۔۔ مگر قانوناً اے درست اے؟ اگر اپنے سپریم کورٹ دے قانون نوں پرے رکھ کہ گل کراں تے؟

نالے لنک تے میں بہتیرے دے سکنا آں، مگر اگ تو پڑھن آلا ہوندا تے حالے تک آپے وی گوگل بادشاہ کولوں کج نہ کج تے پُچھ لیا ہونا سی توں۔
​

ماج سوچی پئی اے کہ تساں نی بین وچوں پیں پیں آنی کتھوں پئی اے ​

اے مج آٹ نہیں سینس زیادہ پسند کرنی اے

مج لگدا اے کٹا چونے نے چکراں اچ مزے اچ ہوئی آ۔
​

Every Science is born in Philosophy, grows into a skill (profession) and culminates into an Art ~Will Durant

 

[RajaRawal111]

اسی میرا خیال اے ایتھے گلگت بلتستان یا فیر آزاد جموں و کشمیر دی گل کر رئے آں؟
جیناں دی اسمبلی علٰیحدہ، قانون علٰیحدہ تے بجٹ وی وکھرا
میں بھُل گیا راجے، اسی ایتھے کس دی گل کر رئے ساں؟ اس ناں ناں کی اے؟
تے لگدا اے مینوں اے وی نئیں معلوم کہ علیٰحدہ ریاست یا قبائلی علاقہ کیہڑی شے ہوندی اے۔ مینوں بس دس نمبر دی گوٹی دا تے بارہ نمبر سے پانے توں علاوہ کھوتے نے سِر نا سی نئی معلوم کہ کہیڑے پاسے ہوندا اے؟

چل ذرا ٹیکنیکل ہو یا ایں تے ہک گل تے دس کہ پنجاب، سندھ تے خیبر پختونخواہ اچ تے بلوچستان اچ گیس ویل ہیڈ دی پرائس گورنمنٹ نے کی لائی ہوئی اے؟ تے کیا فیڈرل گونمنٹ اپنی مرضی تو یکطرفہ فیصلہ کر کے پورے پاکستان اچ سوئی دی گیس ویچ سکدی اے؟ ویچ تے خیر سکدی آ، بلکہ اینا ویچ چھوڑی اے ۔۔۔۔ مگر قانوناً اے درست اے؟ اگر اپنے سپریم کورٹ دے قانون نوں پرے رکھ کہ گل کراں تے؟

نالے لنک تے میں بہتیرے دے سکنا آں، مگر اگ تو پڑھن آلا ہوندا تے حالے تک آپے وی گوگل بادشاہ کولوں کج نہ کج تے پُچھ لیا ہونا سی توں۔


مج لگدا اے کٹا چونے نے چکراں اچ مزے اچ ہوئی آ۔
​

Every Science is born in Philosophy, grows into a skill (profession) and culminates into an Art ~Will Durant

Paa ji for some reason google input servers are dead, so I have to take Shara of Farungi language. (Cant write my pothohar) So I will not be able to express my feelings properly.

1: Which Azaad area Sui is in ??--- please tell me that?. Stop acting like jello and keep bringing new stuff in every post.

2: One falsafi once told me that "when you cannot give words to something you want to say, then that something either does not exist or it is not worthy enough to match the level of the Rant you are putting up".

You are constantly avoiding giving words to your rant. I tried explaining to you with the symbolic invitation to declare independence here in my living area. So what if we are picked up. My wife and my respected bhaabi jee (your better half) will sit on Shahraa-e Dustoor with our pictures as missing persons. We will have exactly the same situation. Should not we ?

The inclusion of the Trible areas in the provinces was welcomed. Who the hell gave these criminals any authority to disagree? Do they have any legal democratically proven authority??

If you can find their legal authority then show me. If not then accept they are at war with a legal system that the majority has accepted. So they should fight the war according to the rules of war.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

1: Which Azaad area Sui is in ??--- please tell me that?. Stop acting like jello and keep bringing new stuff in every post.

What do you think is a Princely State or a Tribal area?

2: One falsafi once told me that "when you cannot give words to something you want to say, then that something either does not exist or it is not worthy enough to match the level of the Rant you are putting up".

Plethora of references are piled up. Have you given any? except your rambling?

You are constantly avoiding giving words to your rant. I tried explaining to you with the symbolic invitation to declare independence here in my living area. So what if we are picked up. My wife and my respected bhaabi jee (your better half) will sit on Shahraa-e Dustoor with our pictures as missing persons. We will have exactly the same situation. Should not we ?

I also countered by replying you back in the figurative manner you understand.
The question is still lying unanswered. You are just trying to drag it because you do not have any answers.

The inclusion of the Trible areas in the provinces was welcomed.

Yes, just like the accession to India was welcomed by the Raja of Kashmir.

Who the hell gave these criminals any authority to disagree? Do they have any legal democratically proven authority?

Tell me how this argument of yours is any different than the Indian rhetoric over Kashmir & its freedom fighters?

If you can find their legal authority then show me.

Already shown to you:
Indian Independence Act 1947

If not then accept they are at war with a legal system that the majority has accepted.

Has anyone carried out a plebiscite in Balochistan? Any referendum? I may be ill informed or naive in legal matters.

So they should fight the war according to the rules of war.

So, what are the rules? abduct people and do not give them access to even your own courts?

 

[RajaRawal111]

What do you think is a Princely State or a Tribal area?


Plethora of references are piled up. Have you given any? except your rambling?


I also countered by replying you back in the figurative manner you understand.
The question is still lying unanswered. You are just trying to drag it because you do not have any answers.

Yes, just like the accession to India was welcomed by the Raja of Kashmir.

Tell me how this argument of yours is any different than the Indian rhetoric over Kashmir & its freedom fighters?

Already shown to you:
Indian Independence Act 1947

You can keep comparing Apples with oranges by pulling in Kashmir. You did not give me a single reason - a single demand that they have put together which shows that they will treat the tribal areas in a different and better than what these areas are getting under the Provincial Administration. All of your concentration is on their birthright of being independent. your brain is not moving an inch ahead towards the "Implementable Administrative Plan" that these bastards have. Even you don't have any idea about it.
If they dont know then you just tell what the hell they will do to this land?

Has anyone carried out a plebiscite in Balochistan? Any referendum? I may be ill informed or naive in legal matters.

So, what are the rules? abduct people and do not give them access to even your own courts?

Where the hell did the Plebiscite in Baluchistan come from? Who has demanded this.
Are you just throwing out things without thinking Paa jee or what ??

So, what are the rules? abduct people and do not give them access to even your own courts?

As Krakoo Kaakr said 90,000 people are killed and 9 have not been punished. Why the hell do countries have intelligence agencies and armies? and which court in the world can the intelligence reports stand?
My question comes back to the point that, 100 individuals have disappeared or every male from that land has disappeared. For god's sake Paa jee. If winning the argument is your sole intent than I will give it to you. But if we are discussing a real issue then be reasonable -- please.

 

[RajaRawal111]

W?

میں وی اگے گل نہیں چلانی پر پریشانی لگ گئی سی کہ پا جی ناراض تے نہیں ہو گئے

 

[RajaRawal111]

W