kia khudaa insaanu per namaaz farz ker sakta hai?

[M_Shameer]

Horse shit.

Plenty of scientists believe in the existence of God. There has to be just one God. What different religions call Him is not the issue. There could be feeble and historical biases intertwined in the beliefs, like Hindus. But their stories render themselves unacceptable. Where did you get Crores years? Humans only existed roughly 200K years ago.

زیادہ تر فلسفی اور سائنسدان جس "خدا" پر یقین رکھتے ہیں وہ شخصی خدا نہیں ہے، وہ مذہب والا خدا نہیں ہے۔ جیسا کہ سپینوزا کہتا ہے کہ پوری کائنات ہی خدا ہے، خدا کائنات سے الگ کوئی چیز نہیں ہے۔ آئین سٹائن بھی سپینوزا کے تصورِ خدا کو ہی مانتا ہے۔ یعنی ایسا تصورِ خدا جس میں کوئی آپ کو کسی قسم کے احکامات نہیں دیتا، کوئی آپ کو یہ نہیں کہتا کہ دن رات میری عبادت کرو، کوئی آپ کی دعائیں سننے والا نہیں، آپ اپنی زندگی گزارنے میں آزاد ہو۔

اگر مسلمان سائنسدانوں کی تاریخ پڑھیں جیسا کہ ابنِ سینا، فارابی، الرازی ، یہ لوگ بھی مذہبی خدا کو رد کرتے تھے۔ انہوں نے پیغمبروں کو نوسرباز قرار دیا اور خدا کے علم کو محدود کہا۔ ان کے انہی عقائد کی وجہ سے امام غزالی نے اپنی کتب میں ان کو کافر قرار دیا اور مسلمانوں کو سائنس اور فلسفے سے دور رہنے کے تلقین کی۔ ​

Where did you get Crores years? Humans only existed roughly 200K years ago.

میں نے حیات لکھا ہے، ہیومنز نہیں۔
​

 

[crankthskunk]

Even if you insist on the evolution of life on earth. It is not crores, but billions of years. Huge difference. The stupid arguments you presented are what are stupid. Nature can be God, but God cannot be God. And if I were to take you back to the creation of the universe, you wouldn't be able to answer the very basic questions from your science.
Just admit, you are worshipping the science. That would be even the worst form of worship—worshipping the humans. Even the latest research is proving that most of the ideas and laws of physics prevailant in the world are not correct. Including the speed of light. That one element alone can put the estimates of the existence of the universe completely out of the sink.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Once again, you are trying to mislead people here. The performance of prayers is mentioned in no less than 67 verses of the Holy Quran.
Al Rum verses 17 and 18 do mention the timing of the prayers too.

فَسُبْحَـٰنَ ٱللَّهِ حِينَ تُمْسُونَ وَحِينَ تُصْبِحُونَ ١٧

So glorify Allah in the evening and in the morning—

وَلَهُ ٱلْحَمْدُ فِى ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَعَشِيًّۭا وَحِينَ تُظْهِرُونَ

all praise is for Him in the heavens and the earth—as well as in the afternoon and at noon.

Some nuts say there are only 4 prayers mentioned in these verses, even though evening should cover both Maghrib and Isha prayers. But even for those who are hell-bound to prove otherwise. There is another verse in the Holy Quran, Hod 114, which mentions Isha prayer too.

وَأَقِمِ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ طَرَفَىِ ٱلنَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًۭا مِّنَ ٱلَّيْلِ ۚ إِنَّ ٱلْحَسَنَـٰتِ يُذْهِبْنَ ٱلسَّيِّـَٔاتِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ ذِكْرَىٰ لِلذَّٰكِرِينَ

Establish prayer ˹O Prophet˺ at both ends of the day and in the early part of the night. 1 Surely good deeds wipe out evil deeds. That is a reminder for the mindful.

There are verses for other beliefs of Islam in the Holy Quran.

As for Mughal 1, he is a deviant follower of Pervaiz. What he says or Pervaiz says is of no value in Islam.

I'm not trying to mislead anyone. I simply posted my understanding of the meaning of the word "Salat." It does not refer to "Namaz" in any of the Salat verses mentioned in the Quran. If Allah had intended for us to perform Namaz, He would have provided us with the details.
The Quran in several verses mentions that it is complete & detailed, after this statement do we need to look for the details in man-made books?

 

[crankthskunk]

dear wake up pak sb, aap ki baat meri nazar main bhi drust hi hai. magar main isse zaraa aage jaana chahta hun keh agar quraan khuda ki kitaab hai to phir is main in pooja paat waali baatun ka taswaur tak kerna bhi sire se hi ghalat baat hai. kyunkeh agar khudaa aisa kerta to woh insaanu ki nazar main bhi chhota ho jaata.

ghor kerne ki baat ye hai aakhir namaaz main hota kia hai? yahee keh khudaa ki taareefen kerna aur khudaa se apni zaroorat ki cheezen maangna. ye agar log khud bakhud karen moqa mehel ki nisbet se to drust hai magar agar ye kahen keh khudaa ne un per aisa kerna laazm kiya hai makhsoos auqaat aur makhsoos sharaait ke saath to ye bilkul hi ghalat baat hai. aisa kyun hai?

ye baat aap yun samjhen keh agar aap ke dil main khudaa ke liye appreciation, admiration ya adoration peda hoti hai us ki qadrat ke nazaare dekh ker aur aap ke muhn se kuchh tareefi kalimaat khud bakhud nikal jaate hen to ye drust hai. ye aise hi hai jaise aap ne kisi kaarigar ki koi takhleeq dekhi jis ne aap ko heraankun tareeqe se mutaasir kiya aur aap ne us ko aur us ki takhleeq ko besaakhta admire kiya aur aap ke mohn se allahu akbar nikal gayaa aur kuchh tareefi kalimaat us karigar aur us ki takhleeq se mutaliq bhi muhn se nikal ge. ye sab aik qudrati amar hai jo dil ki gehraiyun se khud bakhud hota hai jazbaat ke ghalbe ki wajah se issi liye ye drust hota hai.

albatta agar wohee karigar aap ko majboor kare keh aap us ki aur us ki takhleeq ki khaas auqaat main khaas tarah se taareefen karen warna aap ki khair nahin to ye baat drust nahin hogi. is liye keh aisi soorat main aap jo kuchh bhi karen ge us ko khush kerne ke liye woh aap ke dil ki gehraaiyun se nahin ho sake ga. is liye keh insaani jazbaat aik se nahin rehte balkeh pal pal badalte rehte hen waqt aur darpesh halaat ke saath saath.

issi tarah khudaa se kuchh khwaishaat ka wabasta kerna bhi insaanu ke liye aik qudtrati amar hi hota hai. ye amal bhi ussi waqt zahir hota hai jazbaat ke ghalbe se jab aap ko kissi cheez ki filhaqeeqat zaroorat bhi ho. lihaaza aap ke jazbaat woh us waqt ho nahin sakte jab aap ko kisi shai ki zaroorat hi na ho. is liye khudaa ka logoon se aisi baatun ya kaamun ka mutaalba kerna aik ghalat baat ho jaati hai. issi liye khudaa insaanu se aise mutaalbe nahin ker sakta jin ko poora kerna insaanu ke bas ki baat hi nahin ho sakti?

aik aur baat ye bhi hai keh aisi baatun aur kaamun ke liye khudaa insaanu ko kyunker majboor kare ga jin ke kerne se khudaa ka to koi faaida hai hi nahin aur ulta insaanu ka us main nuqsaan hi nuqsaan hai? is liye keh agar log aise kaam karen ge jin main un ka koi faaida hi nahin hai aur ulta un ka waqt zaaya ho ga to phir woh woh kaam nahin ker saken ge jin ko kerne ki un ko laazmi tor per zaroorat hai taa keh woh apni zarooriyaate zindagi poori ker saken.

phir ye keh khudaa insaanu ko woh sab kuchh de chuka hai jo un ko us ka diya huwa maqsade zindagi poora kerne ke liye darkaar tha. lihaaza khudaa ka logoon ko ye kehna hi ghalat ho ga keh mujh se ye maango aur woh maango. ye to kuchh aisi baat ho gi keh aap ne aik makaan banaana tha aur aap ne baghiar us ke liye saamaan mohiya kiye mistery aur mazdoor kaam per lagaa diye.

aik aur baat ye keh khudaa insaanu ko kyun kahe ga keh her shai mujh se maango jab keh woh un ki maangen poori hi nahin kare ga kyunkeh ye us ke maqsad ke aade aati hen? aur jo kuchh maqsad poora kerne ke liye insaanu ko chaiye woh pehle hi un ko de chuka hai.

lihaaza agar log in baatun ko samajh saken to un ko khud hi saaf saaf maloom ho jaaye ga keh mazhabi baaten aur amaal jo unhune khudaa ki taraf mansoob kiye huwe hen ghalat hen.

regards and all the best.

Your mention of puja paat and linking it to the Islamic prayers is damn insulting and out of kilt.
All prayers start with Surah Fateh, which is just reaffirmation of the oneness of God. Everything else just follows it.
That is the main purpose and reason of the Islamic Salah. To praise the one and only God and not associate anyone with him. That's why the Holy Quran ordained 5 prayers for Muslims.

The dua afterwards are not part of the prayers; it is just a human's list of wishes.
The answer to other tosh written above is found in the verse

I'm not trying to mislead anyone. I simply posted my understanding of the meaning of the word "Salat." It does not refer to "Namaz" in any of the Salat verses mentioned in the Quran. If Allah had intended for us to perform Namaz, He would have provided us with the details.
The Quran in several verses mentions that it is complete & detailed, after this statement do we need to look for the details in man-made books?

Oh, so now you admit that prayers are mentioned in the Holy Quran. Namaz is just a sub-continent word, nothing to do with the Holy Quran.

The other Rukins of Islam are mentioned in the following verse 177 of Al Baqrah.
The purpose of the Salat is to recite Surah Fatiah, the compounded verse for the oneness of God, and not to associate any partners with Him.

۞لَّيۡسَ ٱلۡبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمۡ قِبَلَ ٱلۡمَشۡرِقِ وَٱلۡمَغۡرِبِ وَلَٰكِنَّ ٱلۡبِرَّ مَنۡ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡيَوۡمِ ٱلۡأٓخِرِ وَٱلۡمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ وَٱلۡكِتَٰبِ وَٱلنَّبِيِّـۧنَ وَءَاتَى ٱلۡمَالَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِۦ ذَوِي ٱلۡقُرۡبَىٰ وَٱلۡيَتَٰمَىٰ وَٱلۡمَسَٰكِينَ وَٱبۡنَ ٱلسَّبِيلِ وَٱلسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي ٱلرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتَى ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ وَٱلۡمُوفُونَ بِعَهۡدِهِمۡ إِذَا عَٰهَدُواْۖ وَٱلصَّـٰبِرِينَ فِي ٱلۡبَأۡسَآءِ وَٱلضَّرَّآءِ وَحِينَ ٱلۡبَأۡسِۗ أُوْلَـٰٓئِكَ ٱلَّذِينَ صَدَقُواْۖ وَأُوْلَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلۡمُتَّقُونَ

Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.

The Quran is clear that the main purpose of the prayers is the belief in Allah SWT. All other Rukins are for the betterment of humanity. Despite very clear Ayats, you still are spreading mischieve. Stop it.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Oh, so now you admit that prayers are mentioned in the Holy Quran. Namaz is just a sub-continent word, nothing to do with the Holy Quran.

The other Rukins of Islam are mentioned in the following verse 177 of Al Baqrah.
The purpose of the Salat is to recite Surah Fatiah, the compounded verse for the oneness of God, and not to associate any partners with Him.

I have not claimed that Namaz is simply another term for Salat. Please read my statement again, as it seems you may have misunderstood what I wrote. Where in the Quran does it state that the purpose of Salat is to recite Surah Fatiha? Why are you mixing these concepts?
And what are you trying to portray here by quoting chapter 2 verse 177?

 

[Mughal1]

یہ کائنات کس نے تخلیق ہے، انسان اور دیگر حیات کی تخلیق کے پیچھے کون ہے، یہ سوالات ازل سے انسان کے ذہن میں پیدا ہوتے آئے ہیں، اور اس کا جواب آج تک انسان کو نہیں ملا۔ "خدا" کے بارے میں آج تک انسان مکمل طور پر لاعلم ہے۔ ہاں بہت سے لوگوں نے خدا کے نام پر مختلف زمانوں میں کہانیاں گھڑیں، لوگوں کو خدا کا نام لے کر نظمِ کائنات کی توجہیہ کے طور پر اوٹ پٹانگ باتیں بتائیں اور بہت سے بیوقوف لوگوں کو اپنے پیچھے لگا لیا۔ یوں مذاہب تشکیل پاتے گئے۔ تمام مذاہب پرانے لوگوں کے گھڑے ہوئے اوٹ پٹانگ قصوں پر مشتمل ہیں۔ کوئی بھی مذہبی کتاب کھول کر پڑھ لیں، اس میں آپ کو نہاہت بچگانہ اور اول جلول قسم کی باتیں ملیں گی۔

انسان نے آج تک اس دنیا میں جو کچھ حاصل کیا ہے وہ اپنی کاوش، اپنی عقل اور اپنی جستجو سے حاصل کیا ہے۔ تمام علوم، تمام دریافتیں، تمام الجھی ہوئی گھتیاں انسان نے خود سلجھائی ہیں۔ اس میں مذہب کا رتی برابر حصہ نہیں ہے۔ مذہب پرانے زمانوں میں بھی بے کار تھے اور آج بھی بیکار ہیں۔ ​

dear m shameer sb, ye to sawaal gandam jawaab chana waali baat ho gayee. behtar ho ga agar aap waqt nikaal saken aur pehle mere stance ki agahi haasil ker saken taa keh aap ka jawaab mere stance ki manaasbat se drust ho sake. main na secularism ko drust samajhta hun na religion ko. main ne is ki wajuhaat kaafi tafseel se apni posts main bayaan ker di hui hen. mere nazdeek islam na secularism hai, na hi religion. In my view islam is a purpose based proper way of life, a purpose based proper rule of law and a purpose based proper governing system from God for mankind to live by as a purpose based proper human community in his kingdom. A community which helps and fully supports each other and that way complements each other purposefully properly for reaching heights of excellence to have blissful, dignified and secure state of existence.

I have explained in detail why humans need to become and remain a purpose based proper human community in light of observable indisputable facts. Not only that I have also already explained what proof is and how it proves existence of God.

I have not seen any thread by any of the people including yourself who are participating on this thread about clarifying their points of views logically consistently about what exactly is islam in their points of views. Unless people do that no one can know what they are trying to argue and prove or why. There is no point in arguing just for sake of it. People must show they have real interest in discussion by letting others clearly know where they stand and why.

I discredit all the secular and religious personalities including philosophers, scientists, rulers, politicians and economists etc etc. It is because they are responsible for bringing about the human world of which we are a part. If they were sensible people as you and others claim then they will have brought about the kind of human world which I have clearly explained in my posts here on this very forum and of which we all will have been proud.

Our inventions do not show us sensible and clever people but their purpose based proper uses do. That is what is absent in our human world, the human world which you are wrongly glorifying instead of condemning it.

regards and all the best.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Aapki itlaa solaat farz hai, 1400 saal se

kis nay farz key hay?

 

[crankthskunk]

I have not claimed that Namaz is simply another term for Salat. Please read my statement again, as it seems you may have misunderstood what I wrote. Where in the Quran does it state that the purpose of Salat is to recite Surah Fatiha? Why are you mixing these concepts?
And what are you trying to portray here by quoting chapter 2 verse 177?

Wow. You started with the assertions that Salat, and other Rukins of Islam are not mentioned in the Holy Quran. The other distractor was trying to prove God can't command human to pray.
It is very clear that Salat and other Rukins of Islams are clearly mentioned in the Holy Quran, therefore, there is no escaping it.
If you believe in the Holy Quran or not is your personal issue. There are plenty of atheist in the world, for me it is their issue.
My point is simple that don't use Holy Quran for your own wishes or atheist approach.
As for where recital of Surah Fatiah in the prayers is mentioned in the Holy?
To this one simple fact is enough to highlight. Prophet SAW formalised the Prayers and inclusion of Surah Fatiah as cornerstone of the Salat.
Hadrath Jibril used to visit Prophet SAW frequently, all what he taught to Prophet SAW is not in the Quran. The guidence, procedures etc. are separate from the Holy Quran. Which we believe to be the Uncreated Word of Allah.

 

[Wake up Pak]

dear wake up pak sb, aap ki baat meri nazar main bhi drust hi hai. magar main isse zaraa aage jaana chahta hun keh agar quraan khuda ki kitaab hai to phir is main in pooja paat waali baatun ka taswaur tak kerna bhi sire se hi ghalat baat hai. kyunkeh agar khudaa aisa kerta to woh insaanu ki nazar main bhi chhota ho jaata.

ghor kerne ki baat ye hai aakhir namaaz main hota kia hai? yahee keh khudaa ki taareefen kerna aur khudaa se apni zaroorat ki cheezen maangna. ye agar log khud bakhud karen moqa mehel ki nisbet se to drust hai magar agar ye kahen keh khudaa ne un per aisa kerna laazm kiya hai makhsoos auqaat aur makhsoos sharaait ke saath to ye bilkul hi ghalat baat hai. aisa kyun hai?

ye baat aap yun samjhen keh agar aap ke dil main khudaa ke liye appreciation, admiration ya adoration peda hoti hai us ki qadrat ke nazaare dekh ker aur aap ke muhn se kuchh tareefi kalimaat khud bakhud nikal jaate hen to ye drust hai. ye aise hi hai jaise aap ne kisi kaarigar ki koi takhleeq dekhi jis ne aap ko heraankun tareeqe se mutaasir kiya aur aap ne us ko aur us ki takhleeq ko besaakhta admire kiya aur aap ke mohn se allahu akbar nikal gayaa aur kuchh tareefi kalimaat us karigar aur us ki takhleeq se mutaliq bhi muhn se nikal ge. ye sab aik qudrati amar hai jo dil ki gehraiyun se khud bakhud hota hai jazbaat ke ghalbe ki wajah se issi liye ye drust hota hai.

albatta agar wohee karigar aap ko majboor kare keh aap us ki aur us ki takhleeq ki khaas auqaat main khaas tarah se taareefen karen warna aap ki khair nahin to ye baat drust nahin hogi. is liye keh aisi soorat main aap jo kuchh bhi karen ge us ko khush kerne ke liye woh aap ke dil ki gehraaiyun se nahin ho sake ga. is liye keh insaani jazbaat aik se nahin rehte balkeh pal pal badalte rehte hen waqt aur darpesh halaat ke saath saath.

issi tarah khudaa se kuchh khwaishaat ka wabasta kerna bhi insaanu ke liye aik qudtrati amar hi hota hai. ye amal bhi ussi waqt zahir hota hai jazbaat ke ghalbe se jab aap ko kissi cheez ki filhaqeeqat zaroorat bhi ho. lihaaza aap ke jazbaat woh us waqt ho nahin sakte jab aap ko kisi shai ki zaroorat hi na ho. is liye khudaa ka logoon se aisi baatun ya kaamun ka mutaalba kerna aik ghalat baat ho jaati hai. issi liye khudaa insaanu se aise mutaalbe nahin ker sakta jin ko poora kerna insaanu ke bas ki baat hi nahin ho sakti?

aik aur baat ye bhi hai keh aisi baatun aur kaamun ke liye khudaa insaanu ko kyunker majboor kare ga jin ke kerne se khudaa ka to koi faaida hai hi nahin aur ulta insaanu ka us main nuqsaan hi nuqsaan hai? is liye keh agar log aise kaam karen ge jin main un ka koi faaida hi nahin hai aur ulta un ka waqt zaaya ho ga to phir woh woh kaam nahin ker saken ge jin ko kerne ki un ko laazmi tor per zaroorat hai taa keh woh apni zarooriyaate zindagi poori ker saken.

phir ye keh khudaa insaanu ko woh sab kuchh de chuka hai jo un ko us ka diya huwa maqsade zindagi poora kerne ke liye darkaar tha. lihaaza khudaa ka logoon ko ye kehna hi ghalat ho ga keh mujh se ye maango aur woh maango. ye to kuchh aisi baat ho gi keh aap ne aik makaan banaana tha aur aap ne baghiar us ke liye saamaan mohiya kiye mistery aur mazdoor kaam per lagaa diye.

aik aur baat ye keh khudaa insaanu ko kyun kahe ga keh her shai mujh se maango jab keh woh un ki maangen poori hi nahin kare ga kyunkeh ye us ke maqsad ke aade aati hen? aur jo kuchh maqsad poora kerne ke liye insaanu ko chaiye woh pehle hi un ko de chuka hai.

lihaaza agar log in baatun ko samajh saken to un ko khud hi saaf saaf maloom ho jaaye ga keh mazhabi baaten aur amaal jo unhune khudaa ki taraf mansoob kiye huwe hen ghalat hen.

regards and all the best.

"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed."
Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[Wake up Pak]

Wow. You started with the assertions that Salat, and other Rukins of Islam are not mentioned in the Holy Quran. The other distractor was trying to prove God can't command human to pray.

Where did I say that Salat and other Rukins of Islam are not mentioned in the Quran?

My point is simple that don't use Holy Quran for your own wishes or atheist approach.

What is it supposed to mean? What atheism has to do with my posts?

As for where recital of Surah Fatiah in the prayers is mentioned in the Holy?
To this one simple fact is enough to highlight. Prophet SAW formalised the Prayers and inclusion of Surah Fatiah as cornerstone of the Salat.
Hadrath Jibril used to visit Prophet SAW frequently, all what he taught to Prophet SAW is not in the Quran. The guidence, procedures etc. are separate from the Holy Quran. Which we believe to be the Uncreated Word of Allah.

And why would Allah send Jibrael to teach the Prophet something in secret that is not in the Quran?
Do you know that even the man-made ahadith written some 200+ years after the demise of the Prophet does not give you the exact method of Namaz?
Can you find me where in the hadith it mentions to recite Darood in the Namaz?

 

[Mughal1]

"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed."
Friedrich Nietzsche

Dear wake up pak sb, I have explained in almost all necessary detail almost all things people necessarily need to know to be recognised as purposefully properly educated, trained and skilled people otherwise they are nothing more than clever animals in human shapes and forms who are only learning more and more ways, tricks and techniques to exploit, manipulate, blackmail and use each other abusively for securing their own petty personal gains from each other at each other's expense.

This is why such people are to be encouraged to change their this stance through purpose based proper education, training and skills. However if they refuse to change through this method then they must be condemned due to having harmful and destructive ambitions and desires due to which they have developed mindsets, attitudes and behaviours which are harmful and destructive for mankind.

In fact such harmful and destructive people should be gotten rid of that way the sooner the better because otherwise they will keep on indoctrinating, brainwashing and conditioning people under their sway to be like themselves and so the world will become and remain a more and more dangerous place for sensible human beings in the human world. This is why prophets and messengers of God were forced to declare jihaad against such like people in order to save rest of human beings from control of such harmful and destructive human beings.

regards and all the best.

 

[M_Shameer]

dear m shameer sb, ye to sawaal gandam jawaab chana waali baat ho gayee. behtar ho ga agar aap waqt nikaal saken aur pehle mere stance ki agahi haasil ker saken taa keh aap ka jawaab mere stance ki manaasbat se drust ho sake. main na secularism ko drust samajhta hun na religion ko. main ne is ki wajuhaat kaafi tafseel se apni posts main bayaan ker di hui hen. mere nazdeek islam na secularism hai, na hi religion. In my view islam is a purpose based proper way of life, a purpose based proper rule of law and a purpose based proper governing system from God for mankind to live by as a purpose based proper human community in his kingdom. A community which helps and fully supports each other and that way complements each other purposefully properly for reaching heights of excellence to have blissful, dignified and secure state of existence.

I have explained in detail why humans need to become and remain a purpose based proper human community in light of observable indisputable facts. Not only that I have also already explained what proof is and how it proves existence of God.

I have not seen any thread by any of the people including yourself who are participating on this thread about clarifying their points of views logically consistently about what exactly is islam in their points of views. Unless people do that no one can know what they are trying to argue and prove or why. There is no point in arguing just for sake of it. People must show they have real interest in discussion by letting others clearly know where they stand and why.

I discredit all the secular and religious personalities including philosophers, scientists, rulers, politicians and economists etc etc. It is because they are responsible for bringing about the human world of which we are a part. If they were sensible people as you and others claim then they will have brought about the kind of human world which I have clearly explained in my posts here on this very forum and of which we all will have been proud.

Our inventions do not show us sensible and clever people but their purpose based proper uses do. That is what is absent in our human world, the human world which you are wrongly glorifying instead of condemning it.

regards and all the best.

جنابِ عالی۔ آپ اسلام کے بارے میں جو دعوے کررہے ہیں، اس سے پتا چلتا ہے کہ آپ نے اسلام کو بالکل نہیں پڑھا۔ اسلام کے بارے میں تھوڑی آگاہی حاصل کیجئے پھر اس موضوع پر آپ سےبات ہوسکتی ہے۔ کیونکہ آپ اسلام کے بارے میں جو باتیں کررہے ہیں، وہ اس کے بالکل متضاد ہیں جو قرآن اور احادیث میں لکھا ہوا ہے۔ اسلام دوسری قوموں سے نفرت سکھاتا ہے، اسلام جنگ و جدل، قتل و قتال اور لڑائی، مار کٹائی کا سبق دیتا ہے۔ اسلام کا امن سے کوئی لینا دینا نہیں۔ خود پیغمبر اسلام کی ساری زندگی جنگیں لڑتے ہوئے گزری اور ان کے بعد ان کے جانشین صحابہ دوسری قوموں پر یلغار کرتے رہے، امن سے بیٹھے ہوئے لوگوں کے سر پر تلوار لے کر چڑھ جاتے تھے کہ یا تو اسلام قبول کرو یا مرنے کیلئے تیار ہوجاؤ۔ اگر آپ کو میری باتوں پر کوئی شک ہو تو میں قرآن سے ڈھیر ساری آیات نکال کر یہاں پیش کرسکتا ہوں جن میں لڑائی، قتل و غارت گری کا سبق ہے جن میں دوسری قوموں سے بلاوجہ نفرت پالے رکھنے کی تلقین کی گئی ہے۔۔ ​

 

[Mughal1]

خدا انسان پر نماز فرض کرتا ہے وہ اس لئے کہ انسان اپنی مادی دنیا کو ترقی تو دے گا ہی نت نئی ایجادات سے اپنے آرام و اسائیش میں اضافہ کرے گا مگر مادی ترقی سے انسان کے اند ر اسکی ذات تشنہ رہ جاتی ہے اسی ذات کی ترقی کے لئے اللہ نے نماز فرض کی ہے تاکہ وہ روحانی منازل طے کر کے اعلی ترین روحانی درجات حاصل کر نے کے بعد اللہ کے انعامات کا حقدار ثابت ہو سکے

dear taban sb, insaan qatan maadi duniya ko taraqi nahin de rahaa aur na hi kabhi de hi sakta hai jab tak keh woh khudaa ke diye ge tarze zindagi, dastooro qanoon aur nizaamen hakoomat ko baamaqsad tareeqe se na apnaaye balkeh woh ulta is maadi duniya ko tabaho barbaad ker rahaa hai apne haraami pan ki wajah se. issi liye to saari duniya main log ro rahe hen. na saaf hawaa hai logoon ke saans lene ke liye, na saaf paani hai un ke peene ke liye aur na hi sehtmand khaana hai un ke khaane ke liye. kia aap ke nazdeek ye insaanu ki taraqi hai?

mazhabi rasumaat insaanu ka waqt barbaad kerne ki cheezen hen jo secular taaqatwarun ne hi ijaad aur naafiz ki hen deegar logoon ko bewaqoof banaane aur bewaqoof banaaye rakhne ke liye taa ke un ka dihaan udhar lagaa ker un se apne zaati mufadaat qaabu kerte rahen aur yun un ko nuqsaan pohnchaate rahen. issi liye unhune logoon ko aise aqaaido amaal ke peechhe lagaa diya hai jin ka taaqatwarun ko to zaati tor per faaida hai magar jin ko woh ahmaq banaate hen in ki wajah se un ka to nuqsaan hi nuqsaan hai.

quraano hadis se mazhabi aqaaido amaal ka koi taaluq hi nahin hai. aap zaraa ye baat sochen keh insaanu ko kam se kam kitni insaani zabaane seekhni chahiyen aur kyun? yaheen se saari baat aap ko samajh main aa jaaye gi keh ye chakar kia hai.

agar aap ko english aati hai to aap meri explanations ko ghor se padhen aap ko pata chal jaaye ga ye sab kia hai aur kyun hai aur ye kaise wajood main aaya hai aur kon is ko wajood main laaya hai waghera waghera.

regards and all the best.

 

[Mughal1]

جنابِ عالی۔ آپ اسلام کے بارے میں جو دعوے کررہے ہیں، اس سے پتا چلتا ہے کہ آپ نے اسلام کو بالکل نہیں پڑھا۔ اسلام کے بارے میں تھوڑی آگاہی حاصل کیجئے پھر اس موضوع پر آپ سےبات ہوسکتی ہے۔ کیونکہ آپ اسلام کے بارے میں جو باتیں کررہے ہیں، وہ اس کے بالکل متضاد ہیں جو قرآن اور احادیث میں لکھا ہوا ہے۔ اسلام دوسری قوموں سے نفرت سکھاتا ہے، اسلام جنگ و جدل، قتل و قتال اور لڑائی، مار کٹائی کا سبق دیتا ہے۔ اسلام کا امن سے کوئی لینا دینا نہیں۔ خود پیغمبر اسلام کی ساری زندگی جنگیں لڑتے ہوئے گزری اور ان کے بعد ان کے جانشین صحابہ دوسری قوموں پر یلغار کرتے رہے، امن سے بیٹھے ہوئے لوگوں کے سر پر تلوار لے کر چڑھ جاتے تھے کہ یا تو اسلام قبول کرو یا مرنے کیلئے تیار ہوجاؤ۔ اگر آپ کو میری باتوں پر کوئی شک ہو تو میں قرآن سے ڈھیر ساری آیات نکال کر یہاں پیش کرسکتا ہوں جن میں لڑائی، قتل و غارت گری کا سبق ہے جن میں دوسری قوموں سے بلاوجہ نفرت پالے رکھنے کی تلقین کی گئی ہے۔۔ ​

dear m shameer sb, ye jo main ne issi forum pe likhaa huwa hai kia aap ne kabhi us ko ghor se samajhne ke liye padhne ka takallaf gawaara kiya hai. lagta yahee hai aap ke paas waqt sirf taamak tohiyan marne ka hi hai warna aap aisi baaten her giz na kerte.

main ne insaanu ko asal deene islam ke mutaliq jo kuchh main ne quraano hadis se samjha hai pakke usoolun aur haqaaiqe duniya ki roshni main woh bataaya hai. is main insaanu ke aapas main peda kiye ge tamaam masaail ka pakka pakka hal hai. shak hai to aazmaa ker dekh len.

kia aap ne jin logoon ka likha huwa padha hai un main se kisi aik ne bhi koi aisa formula diya hai? agar diya hai to aap bhi meri tarah us ko saamne laayen idhar udhar ki na haanken.

behs baraaye behs aap ker rahe hen main nahin. main ne apna homework kiya huwa hai jo meri baatun se saaf saaf zahir hai. magar agar aap meri baatun ko padh ker maloom hi nahin karen ge keh main ne aakhir likha kiya hai to aap ko maloom kaise ho ga mera formula kia hai aur kyun hai aur woh kaam kaise kare ga? is liye aap pehle mera point of view jaan len baad main us per baat karen.

aur ye keh aap apna pakka pakka hal bataayen insaanu ke masaail ka jaise main ne bataaya hai apni posts main. Jin logoon ne quraano hadis ki ghalat interpretation ki hai woh ya to bunyaadi usoolun aur haqaaiq se unjaan the ya phir haraami log the jo khudaa aur insaaniyat ke dushman the aur is tareeqe se unhune apna haraami pan zahir kiya hai apne apne zaati mufadaat haasil kerne ke liye deegar insaanu ko is tarah shadeed nuqsaan pohnchaa ker.

issi tarah her woh shakhsh jo ghalat baatun ko drust samajhta hai aur un ko apnaata hai ya to woh bhi unjaan hai ya phir woh bhi haraami hai jo apne zaati mufadaat ke liye apna haraami pan dikhaata hai insaaniyat ko nuqsaan pohnchaa ker aisa ker ke jisse us ki khudaa aur insaaniyat se dushmani saaf saaf zahir hoti hai.

yaad rakhen main ne apni baatun main logoon ke hawaale nahin diye balkeh haqaaiq saamne rakhe hen jin ka insaani duniya main koi aik shakhsh bhi inkaar ker hi nahin sakta. lihaaza aap ne logoon ki bekaar kitaaben padh ker apna waqt hi zaaya kiya hai. yaad rakhen taarikh logoon ne hi likhi hai jis main jhoot aur sach sab shaamil hai. issi liye her aik kitaab ko pakke usoolun aur haqaaiq ki roshni main hi saabit kerna padhta hai agarche keh koi kitaab khudaa ki kitaab hone ka dawa hi kyun na kare.

logoon ki likhi hui itni kitaaben padhne ke baowjood bhi aap to ye bhi nahin bataa sakte keh saboot kia hota hai. agar aap jaante hen to bataaiye abhi aap ki ilmi qabliyat ka pata chal jaaye ga.

regards and all the best.

 

[M_Shameer]

dear m shameer sb, ye jo main ne issi forum pe likhaa huwa hai kia aap ne kabhi us ko ghor se samajhne ke liye padhne ka takallaf gawaara kiya hai. lagta yahee hai aap ke paas waqt sirf taamak tohiyan marne ka hi hai warna aap aisi baaten her giz na kerte.

main ne insaanu ko asal deene islam ke mutaliq jo kuchh main ne quraano hadis se samjha hai pakke usoolun aur haqaaiqe duniya ki roshni main woh bataaya hai. is main insaanu ke aapas main peda kiye ge tamaam masaail ka pakka pakka hal hai. shak hai to aazmaa ker dekh len.

kia aap ne jin logoon ka likha huwa padha hai un main se kisi aik ne bhi koi aisa formula diya hai? agar diya hai to aap bhi meri tarah us ko saamne laayen idhar udhar ki na haanken.

behs baraaye behs aap ker rahe hen main nahin. main ne apna homework kiya huwa hai jo meri baatun se saaf saaf zahir hai. magar agar aap meri baatun ko padh ker maloom hi nahin karen ge keh main ne aakhir likha kiya hai to aap ko maloom kaise ho ga mera formula kia hai aur kyun hai aur woh kaam kaise kare ga? is liye aap pehle mera point of view jaan len baad main us per baat karen.

aur ye keh aap apna pakka pakka hal bataayen insaanu ke masaail ka jaise main ne bataaya hai apni posts main. Jin logoon ne quraano hadis ki ghalat interpretation ki hai woh ya to bunyaadi usoolun aur haqaaiq se unjaan the ya phir haraami log the jo khudaa aur insaaniyat ke dushman the aur is tareeqe se unhune apna haraami pan zahir kiya hai apne apne zaati mufadaat haasil kerne ke liye deegar insaanu ko is tarah shadeed nuqsaan pohnchaa ker.

issi tarah her woh shakhsh jo ghalat baatun ko drust samajhta hai aur un ko apnaata hai ya to woh bhi unjaan hai ya phir woh bhi haraami hai jo apne zaati mufadaat ke liye apna haraami pan dikhaata hai insaaniyat ko nuqsaan pohnchaa ker aisa ker ke jisse us ki khudaa aur insaaniyat se dushmani saaf saaf zahir hoti hai.

yaad rakhen main ne apni baatun main logoon ke hawaale nahin diye balkeh haqaaiq saamne rakhe hen jin ka insaani duniya main koi aik shakhsh bhi inkaar ker hi nahin sakta. lihaaza aap ne logoon ki bekaar kitaaben padh ker apna waqt hi zaaya kiya hai. yaad rakhen taarikh logoon ne hi likhi hai jis main jhoot aur sach sab shaamil hai. issi liye her aik kitaab ko pakke usoolun aur haqaaiq ki roshni main hi saabit kerna padhta hai agarche keh koi kitaab khudaa ki kitaab hone ka dawa hi kyun na kare.

logoon ki likhi hui itni kitaaben padhne ke baowjood bhi aap to ye bhi nahin bataa sakte keh saboot kia hota hai. agar aap jaante hen to bataaiye abhi aap ki ilmi qabliyat ka pata chal jaaye ga.

regards and all the best.

حضرت صاحب۔۔ پہلے یہ تو فرمائیے کہ یہ جو اسلام آپ کے بقول خدا نے نازل فرمایا اس کی ہر کوئی الگ الگ انٹرپریٹیشن کیوں کرتا پھرتا ہے؟ آپ اپنا الگ اسلام لئے پھررہے ہیں، فورم پر دو حضرات ہیں وہ اپنا الگ اسلام لئے پھررہے ہیں، دیگر اکثریتی مسلمان ہیں، وہ اپنا الگ اسلام لئے پھررہے ہیں۔ اگر آپ لوگوں کے بقول یہ پیغام کسی اصلی خدا کی طرف سے آیا ہے تو کیا وہ خدا اتنی ہی اہلیت نہیں رکھتا کہ اپنے بندوں کو اپنا پیغام سمجھا سکے؟ جس مسلمان سے بات کرو وہ کہتا ہے اسلام یہ نہیں، اسلام وہ ہے۔ اسلام نہ ہوگیا چوں چوں کا مربہ ہوگیا۔۔

کوئی بھی سائنسدان، معیشت دان، تاریخ دان، کیمیا دان جب کوئی کتاب لکھتا ہے تو اس کو پڑھنے والے سب لوگ اس کو سمجھتے ہیں اور کتاب سے وہی کچھ اخذ کرتے ہیں جو لکھنے والا اپنے قارئین تک پہنچانا چاہتا ہے۔ آج تک کارل مارکس کی داس کیپٹل کو سمجھنے میں کسی کو دشواری پیش نہیں آئی، ایڈم سمتھ کی" ویلتھ آف نیشنز" سے لوگوں نے مختلف مطالب نہیں نکالے، ایمانوئل کانٹ کی "کریٹیک آف پیور ریزن"پر پڑھنے والوں کے اختلافات نہیں ہوئے، چارلس ڈارون کی "آن دی اوریجن آف سپیشیز" پر چار سو تفاسیر لکھنے کی ضرورت پیش نہیں آئی، غرضیکہ جب بھی قابل انسانوں نے کچھ لکھا، اس کو بڑی مہارت کے ساتھ اپنے قارئین تک پہنچایا اور سب نے وہی سمجھا جو لکھنے والے نے لکھا۔مگر آپ کی مذہبی کتابیں لکھنے والے تو اتنی اہلیت بھی نہیں رکھتے تھے کہ لوگوں کو اپنا پیغام بلا اختلاف اور بلا ابہام سمجھا سکیں۔

آپ مسلمان حضرات کیلئے میرا ایک ہی مشورہ ہے کہ جس کتاب کو آپ خدا کی طرف سے بھیجی ہوئی کتاب مانتے ہیں، پہلے سارے مسلمان بیٹھ کر اس کتاب کا ایک متفقہ ترجمہ کرلیں، پہلے خود اس کو سمجھ لیں کہ اس میں لکھا کیا ہے، پھر اس کتاب کے متفقہ ترجمہ پر آپ سے بات کرلیں گے۔ فی الحال آپ میرا اور اپنا وقت ضائع کررہے ہیں، کیونکہ آپ اسلام کی ایک نئی ٹانگ اٹھائے پھررہے ہیں اور اکثریتی مسلمانوں کے پاس اسلام کی جو ٹانگ ہے وہ الگ ہے۔ دونوں ٹانگوں کو جوڑ کر ایک وجود بنالیں پھر آپ سے بات ہوجائے گی۔۔ ​

 

[crankthskunk]

Where did I say that Salat and other Rukins of Islam are not mentioned in the Quran?

What is it supposed to mean? What atheism has to do with my posts?

And why would Allah send Jibrael to teach the Prophet something in secret that is not in the Quran?
Do you know that even the man-made ahadith written some 200+ years after the demise of the Prophet does not give you the exact method of Namaz?
Can you find me where in the hadith it mentions to recite Darood in the Namaz?

You are a right fool. You write shit and then claim you have not written it.
Jibrel not teach anything in secret to Prophet. Whatever Prophet was told he shared it with the faithful and set up the Mashiaq for all Muslims to follow.
I don't have to search for any Hadiths to find why we have to say Darood for Prophet SAW, because it is ordained in the Holy Quran on Muslims to say Drood for Prophet.


إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ وَمَلَـٰٓئِكَتَهُۥ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى ٱلنَّبِىِّ ۚ يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ صَلُّوا۟ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا۟ تَسْلِيمًا ٥٦

33:56 Indeed, Allah showers His blessings upon the Prophet, and His angels pray for him. O believers! Invoke Allah’s blessings upon him, and salute him with worthy greetings of peace.

You really need to learn the teachings of Islam, stupid.

 

[Wake up Pak]

You are a right fool. You write shit and then claim you have not written it.
Jibrel not teach anything in secret to Prophet. Whatever Prophet was told he shared it with the faithful and set up the Mashiaq for all Muslims to follow.
I don't have to search for any Hadiths to find why we have to say Darood for Prophet SAW, because it is ordained in the Holy Quran on Muslims to say Drood for Prophet.


إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ وَمَلَـٰٓئِكَتَهُۥ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى ٱلنَّبِىِّ ۚ يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ صَلُّوا۟ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا۟ تَسْلِيمًا ٥٦

33:56 Indeed, Allah showers His blessings upon the Prophet, and His angels pray for him. O believers! Invoke Allah’s blessings upon him, and salute him with worthy greetings of peace.

You really need to learn the teachings of Islam, stupid.

Once again, you are being a total fool. When you can not have a logical answer, you resort to nonsense. For your irrational mind, here is what I posted, I hope it will clear your clogged-up brain cells.
"According to my understanding, the Quran does not state that Namaz, Roza, Hajj, etc., are forms of worship directed by God."
As per Darood, I knew you would have no leg to stand on. The verse you quoted is not a Darood but a salutation on Nabi.

Do you think this verse is a Darood on Momineen?

هُوَ الَّذِي يُصَلِّي عَلَيْكُمْ وَمَلَائِكَتُهُ لِيُخْرِجَكُم مِّنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ وَكَانَ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَحِيمً
33:43 He it is Who sends His blessings on you, and (so do) His angels, that He may bring you forth out of utter darkness into the light; and He is Merciful to the believers

 

[crankthskunk]

Once again, you are being a total fool. When you can not have a logical answer, you resort to nonsense. For your irrational mind, here is what I posted, I hope it will clear your clogged-up brain cells.
"According to my understanding, the Quran does not state that Namaz, Roza, Hajj, etc., are forms of worship directed by God."
As per Darood, I knew you would have no leg to stand on. The verse you quoted is not a Darood but a salutation on Nabi.

Do you think this verse is a Darood on Momineen?

هُوَ الَّذِي يُصَلِّي عَلَيْكُمْ وَمَلَائِكَتُهُ لِيُخْرِجَكُم مِّنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ وَكَانَ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَحِيمً
33:43 He it is Who sends His blessings on you, and (so do) His angels, that He may bring you forth out of utter darkness into the light; and He is Merciful to the believers

Once again idiot, don't try to wriggle out of the hole you dig for yourself.

"According to my understanding, the Quran does not state that Namaz, Roza, Hajj, etc., are forms of worship directed by God."
So what that means exactly? If God is Decreeing in the Holy Quran that you should pray 5 times a day, it is not the form of worship directed by God?
When Quran is decreeing that you should give charity and Zakah to the poor, needy and travellers. The God is not directing you to help the poor?
When Allah SWT decreed in the Holy Quran;
يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ ٱلصِّيَامُ كَمَا كُتِبَ عَلَى ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ ١٨٣
2: 183 O believers! Fasting is prescribed for you—as it was for those before you1—so perhaps you will become mindful ˹of Allah˺.
God is not directing you to hold Saiam?

Fool is a fool, who think he is the Socrates.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Once again idiot, don't try to wriggle out of the hole you dig for yourself.

"According to my understanding, the Quran does not state that Namaz, Roza, Hajj, etc., are forms of worship directed by God."

So what that means exactly? If God is Decreeing in the Holy Quran that you should pray 5 times a day, it is not the form of worship directed by God?

When Quran is decreeing that you should give charity and Zakah to the poor, needy and travellers. The God is not directing you to help the poor?
When Allah SWT decreed in the Holy Quran;
يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ ٱلصِّيَامُ كَمَا كُتِبَ عَلَى ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ ١٨٣
2: 183 O believers! Fasting is prescribed for you—as it was for those before you1—so perhaps you will become mindful ˹of Allah˺.
God is not directing you to hold Saiam?

Fool is a fool, who think he is the Socrates.

Once again, were you born dumb or do you pretend to be one?
What part of this post you do not comprehend?
"According to my understanding, the Quran does not state that Namaz, Roza, Hajj, etc., are forms of worship directed by God."
I've dealt so many morons on this forum but you seem to outclass all of them.

So what that means exactly? If God is Decreeing in the Holy Quran that you should pray 5 times a day, it is not the form of worship directed by God?

Show me a verse from the Quran where God tells us to Pray 5 times daily and it is worship.

 

[crankthskunk]

Once again, were you born dumb or do you pretend to be one?
What part of this post you do not comprehend?
"According to my understanding, the Quran does not state that Namaz, Roza, Hajj, etc., are forms of worship directed by God."
I've dealt so many morons on this forum but you seem to outclass all of them.


Show me a verse from the Quran where God tells us to Pray 5 times daily and it is worship.

Lanti Kutte, the verses from the Holy Quran about Prayers were already provided, but you are purposefully blind.
IF Allah Decree these Rukins in the Holy Quran, He is not directing Muslims to observe them?
What is worship for you? Worshiping the idols like the Hindus?
Fcuking idiot.