Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You want to make Quran as Joke?(Nauzbillah)

your interpration style will never make other(non Muslims) to take it seriously.


Because you are saying that Quran meaning can be changed according to time.

Quran words can not be changed Sir.


Changing meaning time to time doesnt make a thing correct.


You are saying that if sciencetist ABC give a theory that no one can deny then We should change interpretation and translation and meaning of Quran.??

and Then next year some one XYZ prove that no ABC was wrong and now XYZ ca not be denied using REASONS so we should again rush to change Quran meaning and interprations and translations??

Next Year again some DEF prove both XYZ and ABC wrong so now time has come to change Quran Meaning and tranlsation and interprations??


So Word of GOD changes with WORK of HUMAN


That is one GREAAAAAT approach huh???

No comments ...... Partly I am busy and partly I want to avoid another lengthy khata with you.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

I am on work and can't go in details... Lakin tum jo marzi samajhte raho .... on ko under curse samjho jo marzi karo... on ko on ki positive deeds ka ajar Khuda ne dana hai ... and fortunately you are NOT God......!!!

Actually you know that now you are talking foolish things.... Under Curse hain lehaza aap on se dar-guzar karain .... This is your logic.

Quran ki logic ye hai k jinhon ne breach of promise kiya hai wo under curse hain ... wo falan flan Khiyanat k bhi mujram hain ... Lakin there is an exception of few .... aap on few ppl se dar guzar karain.... Zahir hai k those who are few ... are not to be cursed but are to be ignored for their whatever mistake.

again and again read my last post. issi liye main ne pehli post k shuru main he kaha tha ... "Listen carefully...!!!"

Simple Question needs simple answer

Those Few ny Promise pura kia ya nahi.


and do not act silly did i said "Under Curse hain lehaza aap on se dar-guzar karain"

I said

Allah says "Ap durguzar karain main inka hisaab khud karoon ga and Allah said they are cursed by Allah"



any way

Keep thinking and answer

Simple Question needs simple answer

Those Few jin k ap zikar karty ho kaya unhoon ny Promise pura kia ya nahi. _______ Promise pura kia ya nai Simple question

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

No comments ...... Partly I am busy and partly I want to avoid another lengthy khata with you.

dont open any new Just think k


Simple Question needs simple answer

Those Few have fullfil Convent or not?

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Simple Question needs simple answer

Those Few ny Promise pura kia ya nahi.


and do not act silly did i said "Under Curse hain lehaza aap on se dar-guzar karain"

I said

Allah says "Ap durguzar karain main inka hisaab khud karoon ga and Allah said they are cursed by Allah"



any way

Keep thinking and answer

Simple Question needs simple answer

Those Few jin k ap zikar karty ho kaya unhoon ny Promise pura kia ya nahi. _______ Promise pura kia ya nai Simple question

Ok I am not continuing. Jo merzi samjho ... but you are wrong. And it is not my duty to make you accept the truth. My duty was only to convey the truth.

Fi aman Allah

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Ok I am not continuing. Jo merzi samjho ... but you are wrong. And it is not my duty to make you accept the truth. My duty was only to convey the truth.

Fi aman Allah

Main ny Khud sy tu kuch nahi kaha I just ask



Simple Question needs simple answer

Those Few jin k ap zikar karty ho kaya unhoon ny Promise pura kia ya nahi. _______ Promise pura kia ya nai Simple question

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Main ny Khud sy tu kuch nahi kaha I just ask



Simple Question needs simple answer

Those Few jin k ap zikar karty ho kaya unhoon ny Promise pura kia ya nahi. _______ Promise pura kia ya nai Simple question

Again listen carefully.

Total Promise main jo portion Allah ka tha ... ya jo bandon ka tha ... they are fulfilling that part of the promise. 2:62,5:69 main first two conditions Allah k Haqooq se related hain (i.e. belief in (i)Allah and (ii)day of judgment ... third condition bandon k haqooq se related hai (i.e. doing good deeds)

They have fulfilled this part of the promise. Allah appreciate them for doing this positive job in 2:62,5:69 and 7:159

But they have not fulfilled promise related to Rasalat. It is why that when it comes to their relationship with Rasool ... Allah make safarash before Rasool .... k on ko muaf kar dijiye ... on se dar-guzar kijiye ....

Yes .... they have not fulfilled part of the promise that relates to Haqooq-e-Rasool ....

Allah Himself appreciates them for they fulfilled three conditions .... But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool .... Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse and you may ignore their mistake (relating to your rights) and forgive them.

Jin logon pe curse ka zikar ho raha hai wahan aik exception bhi bayan farmayi gayi hai. Exception ka matlab hai k ppl who are under exception ... are not under curse. Exception ka zikar following words main hai....

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]بجز ان میں کے معدودے چند شخصوں کے[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]
​

​

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You want to make Quran as Joke?(Nauzbillah)

your interpration style will never make other(non Muslims) to take it seriously.


Because you are saying that Quran meaning can be changed according to time.

Quran words can not be changed Sir.


Changing meaning time to time doesnt make a thing correct.


You are saying that if sciencetist ABC give a theory that no one can deny then We should change interpretation and translation and meaning of Quran.??

and Then next year some one XYZ prove that no ABC was wrong and now XYZ ca not be denied using REASONS so we should again rush to change Quran meaning and interprations and translations??

Next Year again some DEF prove both XYZ and ABC wrong so now time has come to change Quran Meaning and tranlsation and interprations??


So Word of GOD changes with WORK of HUMAN


That is one GREAAAAAT approach huh???

Brother Abdullah, please use your head a little. The quranic text does not change nor it needs changing because interpretation is all about trying to make sense of the text that is already their.

If you go through any tafseer ever written about the quran it is all work of people and it always contained mistakes. The proof is existence of many sects that take the quranic text in different directions as per their own make beliefs. In my view their interpretations are wrong here and there because they did not use proper rules for interpretation of the quranic text. This does not mean that if I use proper rules then there will be no errors at all in my interpretation of the text. You can look at it the way we solves mathematical questions. If we do not know the rules for solving a question then we cannot solve the question at all but even if we know the rules that still leaves us wit possibility of mistakes. Even if the formula is error free yet solution involves steps which when carried out may lead to error.

So even though the quran is free of error, we humans are not. This being the case we can only do as much as or as best as we can. God is God but we are humans.

Let me try and explain it further. If we have a book and we give it to different people to read with different levels of life experiences, information and knowledge then we will end up with variety of interpretations because each person will explain it the way one understand it from his own point of view. Likewise when different people read the very same text of the quran they draw a very different sense from the very same text. Does that make word of God a laughingstock and a nonsense? Or is the process of evolution of learning at work here?

Did you know the quran as soon as you were born the way you know it today? Or did you come through process of learning and have been changing your mind all your life and will continue doing that till the end of your life? Learning is a life long process as I see it and as you learn new things so you readjust your point of view about things. This is why people change from one sect to another or from one religion to another. Why would Allah send messages and messenger if people were not meant for learning and changing their minds?

A book was sent many years back and each generation since then has evolved in its awareness of real world realities therefore each generation interpreted the book the best they could do under their circumstances in their own situations. If it was ok for them to try and understand the quran the way they could then why it is wrong for us today to try and understand the quran the way we can?

From your responses it seems you are stuck with some silly ideas that you are frightened of letting go because you seem to be reluctant to learning anything beyond that point. Well good luck with your way of thinking things through I am afraid I have different way of looking at things than you. I do not see how quran can be a laughingstock just because someone tries to make sense of it in light of his own life experience. After all how can we make sense of anything outside our own life experience is beyond me.

May be it is best that you ask questions of yourself and try answering them as well and see if that works for you to realise there are other ways of looking at things which perhaps make better sense than you are already familiar with.

regards and all the best.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Again listen carefully.

Total Promise main jo portion Allah ka tha ... ya jo bandon ka tha ... they are fulfilling that part of the promise. 2:62,5:69 main first two conditions Allah k Haqooq se related hain (i.e. belief in (i)Allah and (ii)day of judgment ... third condition bandon k haqooq se related hai (i.e. doing good deeds)

They have fulfilled this part of the promise. Allah appreciate them for doing this positive job in 2:62,5:69 and 7:159

But they have not fulfilled promise related to Rasalat. It is why that when it comes to their relationship with Rasool ... Allah make safarash before Rasool .... k on ko muaf kar dijiye ... on se dar-guzar kijiye ....

Yes .... they have not fulfilled part of the promise that relates to Haqooq-e-Rasool ....

Allah Himself appreciates them for they fulfilled three conditions .... But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool .... Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse and you may ignore their mistake (relating to your rights) and forgive them.

Jin logon pe curse ka zikar ho raha hai wahan aik exception bhi bayan farmayi gayi hai. Exception ka matlab hai k ppl who are under exception ... are not under curse. Exception ka zikar following words main hai....

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]بجز ان میں کے معدودے چند شخصوں کے[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]
​

​

READ AGain

(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard. They changed the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them.


Is Ayat main kahaan likha hy k CURSE sirf Adha Convent pura na karnay par kiya gaya aur ADHA na karnay par kuch bhi nahi???

Is Ayaat main sirf ya hy k.

So, because of their breach of their covenant, ______________ GAUR kar karoo balkhy saaf baat hy k PURA convent ka zikar hy .RASAAALT was part of Convent. and Allah said k convent pura na karny par Curse hy un par.


You said
But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse

Ya Kahaan likha hy??? Ayat kahti hy

And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allah loves the doers of good.)

Is main Ya baat kahaan hy??

Is main deceit k zikar hy

"But forgive them." Sub k liye hy kyn k jin main deceit he nahi hy unko forgive karny ki zarorat?


Simple si baat hy Allah
Convent pura na karny walon par curse kary aur ap unko nijat yafta kahaain . Ya apki hi himat hy.


(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard.

Convent kaya tha you know very well.

Aur ya apki zati raye hy k ji Adha convent pura karny par bhi Koi masla nai hoga unko.

Magar Allah ny asi koi baat nai kahi Allah ny kaya k
(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Brother Abdullah, please use your head a little. The quranic text does not change nor it needs changing because interpretation is all about trying to make sense of the text that is already their.

If you go through any tafseer ever written about the quran it is all work of people and it always contained mistakes. The proof is existence of many sects that take the quranic text in different directions as per their own make beliefs. In my view their interpretations are wrong here and there because they did not use proper rules for interpretation of the quranic text. This does not mean that if I use proper rules then there will be no errors at all in my interpretation of the text. You can look at it the way we solves mathematical questions. If we do not know the rules for solving a question then we cannot solve the question at all but even if we know the rules that still leaves us wit possibility of mistakes. Even if the formula is error free yet solution involves steps which when carried out may lead to error.

So even though the quran is free of error, we humans are not. This being the case we can only do as much as or as best as we can. God is God but we are humans.

Let me try and explain it further. If we have a book and we give it to different people to read with different levels of life experiences, information and knowledge then we will end up with variety of interpretations because each person will explain it the way one understand it from his own point of view. Likewise when different people read the very same text of the quran they draw a very different sense from the very same text. Does that make word of God a laughingstock and a nonsense? Or is the process of evolution of learning at work here?

Did you know the quran as soon as you were born the way you know it today? Or did you come through process of learning and have been changing your mind all your life and will continue doing that till the end of your life? Learning is a life long process as I see it and as you learn new things so you readjust your point of view about things. This is why people change from one sect to another or from one religion to another. Why would Allah send messages and messenger if people were not meant for learning and changing their minds?

A book was sent many years back and each generation since then has evolved in its awareness of real world realities therefore each generation interpreted the book the best they could do under their circumstances in their own situations. If it was ok for them to try and understand the quran the way they could then why it is wrong for us today to try and understand the quran the way we can?

From your responses it seems you are stuck with some silly ideas that you are frightened of letting go because you seem to be reluctant to learning anything beyond that point. Well good luck with your way of thinking things through I am afraid I have different way of looking at things than you. I do not see how quran can be a laughingstock just because someone tries to make sense of it in light of his own life experience. After all how can we make sense of anything outside our own life experience is beyond me.

May be it is best that you ask questions of yourself and try answering them as well and see if that works for you to realise there are other ways of looking at things which perhaps make better sense than you are already familiar with.

regards and all the best.

Interpration of different sect can be different but not tranlation

changing translation means you are changing actual WORD

like if i said

I eat date.

and you translate it as . I waste a day


You are changing the actual translations.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Brother Abdullah, please use your head a little. The quranic text does not change nor it needs changing because interpretation is all about trying to make sense of the text that is already their.

If you go through any tafseer ever written about the quran it is all work of people and it always contained mistakes. The proof is existence of many sects that take the quranic text in different directions as per their own make beliefs. In my view their interpretations are wrong here and there because they did not use proper rules for interpretation of the quranic text. This does not mean that if I use proper rules then there will be no errors at all in my interpretation of the text. You can look at it the way we solves mathematical questions. If we do not know the rules for solving a question then we cannot solve the question at all but even if we know the rules that still leaves us wit possibility of mistakes. Even if the formula is error free yet solution involves steps which when carried out may lead to error.

So even though the quran is free of error, we humans are not. This being the case we can only do as much as or as best as we can. God is God but we are humans.

Let me try and explain it further. If we have a book and we give it to different people to read with different levels of life experiences, information and knowledge then we will end up with variety of interpretations because each person will explain it the way one understand it from his own point of view. Likewise when different people read the very same text of the quran they draw a very different sense from the very same text. Does that make word of God a laughingstock and a nonsense? Or is the process of evolution of learning at work here?

Did you know the quran as soon as you were born the way you know it today? Or did you come through process of learning and have been changing your mind all your life and will continue doing that till the end of your life? Learning is a life long process as I see it and as you learn new things so you readjust your point of view about things. This is why people change from one sect to another or from one religion to another. Why would Allah send messages and messenger if people were not meant for learning and changing their minds?

A book was sent many years back and each generation since then has evolved in its awareness of real world realities therefore each generation interpreted the book the best they could do under their circumstances in their own situations. If it was ok for them to try and understand the quran the way they could then why it is wrong for us today to try and understand the quran the way we can?

From your responses it seems you are stuck with some silly ideas that you are frightened of letting go because you seem to be reluctant to learning anything beyond that point. Well good luck with your way of thinking things through I am afraid I have different way of looking at things than you. I do not see how quran can be a laughingstock just because someone tries to make sense of it in light of his own life experience. After all how can we make sense of anything outside our own life experience is beyond me.

May be it is best that you ask questions of yourself and try answering them as well and see if that works for you to realise there are other ways of looking at things which perhaps make better sense than you are already familiar with.

regards and all the best.

Ok

Translate this passage of Quran
20:17-21

﴿وَمَا تِلْكَ بِيَمِينِكَ يمُوسَى - قَالَ هِىَ عَصَاىَ أَتَوَكَّؤُا عَلَيْهَا وَأَهُشُّ بِهَا عَلَى غَنَمِى وَلِىَ فِيهَا مَأَرِبُ أُخْرَى ﴾

﴿قَالَ أَلْقِهَا يمُوسَى - فَأَلْقَـهَا فَإِذَا هِىَ حَيَّةٌ تَسْعَى - قَالَ خُذْهَا وَلاَ تَخَفْ سَنُعِيدُهَا سِيَرتَهَا الاٍّولَى ﴾


I asked for Translation not interprations.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Interpration of different sect can be different but not tranlation

changing translation means you are changing actual WORD

like if i said

I eat date.

and you translate it as . I waste a day


You are changing the actual translations.

Thank you brother Abdullah for sharing your thought on concept of translation. Again I have explained it in another thread what translation is all about. It is unfortunate that you have not read my posts and you keep raising same points that I have discussed in great detail in my other posts on other threads.

Here are some eye opening urdu lectures by allaama parwez, please listen and see if they make any sense to you.

http://archive.org/details/DarseQuranSuraAlMaaidah04Ayah87To90ByGhulamAhmedParwez

http://www.parwez.tv/insaniyat-ka-aakhri-sahara.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-01-to-02.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-03-to-03-first-part.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-03-second-part.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-97-to-103-.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-196-to-207.html

http://www.parwez.tv/parwezs-dawat-.html

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

READ AGain

(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard. They changed the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them.


Is Ayat main kahaan likha hy k CURSE sirf Adha Convent pura na karnay par kiya gaya aur ADHA na karnay par kuch bhi nahi???

Is Ayaat main sirf ya hy k.

So, because of their breach of their covenant, ______________ GAUR kar karoo balkhy saaf baat hy k PURA convent ka zikar hy .RASAAALT was part of Convent. and Allah said k convent pura na karny par Curse hy un par.


You said
But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse

Ya Kahaan likha hy??? Ayat kahti hy

And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allah loves the doers of good.)

Is main Ya baat kahaan hy??

Is main deceit k zikar hy

"But forgive them." Sub k liye hy kyn k jin main deceit he nahi hy unko forgive karny ki zarorat?


Simple si baat hy Allah
Convent pura na karny walon par curse kary aur ap unko nijat yafta kahaain . Ya apki hi himat hy.


(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard.

Convent kaya tha you know very well.

Aur ya apki zati raye hy k ji Adha convent pura karny par bhi Koi masla nai hoga unko.

Magar Allah ny asi koi baat nai kahi Allah ny kaya k
(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard.

On sab ne promise braek kiya hai aur onhon ne flan flan juram bhi kiye hain. lakin on main se chand log aise hain aap on se dar-guzar kijiye aur on ko muaf kar dijiye.

This is the abrtract of this ayyet ....... tum jo merzi samjho .......... I don't care

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

On sab ne promise braek kiya hai aur onhon ne flan flan juram bhi kiye hain. lakin on main se chand log aise hain aap on se dar-guzar kijiye aur on ko muaf kar dijiye.

This is the abrtract of this ayyet ....... tum jo merzi samjho .......... I don't care

Bhai main tu kah raha hoon k Is Ayat main sub k sath dar guzar karny ko kaha hy Magar Hazoor SW ko


Magar Allah ny convent breach karny par unpar curse kia hy. aur jis par Allah ka curse ho wo nijat yafta sirf ap ki nazar main ho sakthy hakikat main nahi.

Jis ny breach of convent kia us par Allah ny Curse kia. aur curse of Allah wala fear main he hoga end par Azad nahi hoga fear sy.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Thank you brother Abdullah for sharing your thought on concept of translation. Again I have explained it in another thread what translation is all about. It is unfortunate that you have not read my posts and you keep raising same points that I have discussed in great detail in my other posts on other threads.

Here are some eye opening urdu lectures by allaama parwez, please listen and see if they make any sense to you.

http://archive.org/details/DarseQuranSuraAlMaaidah04Ayah87To90ByGhulamAhmedParwez

http://www.parwez.tv/insaniyat-ka-aakhri-sahara.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-01-to-02.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-03-to-03-first-part.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-03-second-part.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-97-to-103-.html

http://www.parwez.tv/sura-al-baqarah-02-ayah-196-to-207.html

http://www.parwez.tv/parwezs-dawat-.html

I asked you so you should answer .

should i go and read all your posts to get answer of my few lines??

and please post "Translation" of the Ayath i post.

Will try to go through the links but i have listen this guys but he failed to prove a scholor. his speech on Shan Nazool was so baseless that even a child could have answer him.


Any way please

Post the Translation "Translation" not interpretations. "Tarjuma" not Tafseer

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Ok

Translate this passage of Quran
20:17-21

﴿وَمَا تِلْكَ بِيَمِينِكَ يمُوسَى - قَالَ هِىَ عَصَاىَ أَتَوَكَّؤُا عَلَيْهَا وَأَهُشُّ بِهَا عَلَى غَنَمِى وَلِىَ فِيهَا مَأَرِبُ أُخْرَى ﴾

﴿قَالَ أَلْقِهَا يمُوسَى - فَأَلْقَـهَا فَإِذَا هِىَ حَيَّةٌ تَسْعَى - قَالَ خُذْهَا وَلاَ تَخَفْ سَنُعِيدُهَا سِيَرتَهَا الاٍّولَى ﴾


I asked for Translation not interprations.

Dear brother Abdullah, it is not me who has problem with understanding of concept of translation or interpretation. The best thing to do for you is to translate the verses as you wish and then prove their meanings make sense. If you can do that then I will accept your version otherwise I will point out the problems with your translation.

Also it will be a good idea that you begin with explanation of concept of translation as you understand it so that it could be examined properly whether your understanding of the concept of translation makes any sense to anyone or not.

RULES FOR translations or INTERPRETATION

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Translation

http://www.ukessays.com/essays/translation/translating-texts.php

http://abctranslations.com/translation-services/default.aspx

http://www.languagealliance.com/legal-translation-tips/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation

http://french.about.com/cs/translation/a/introduction_3.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvxJZV0sxJc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekNKbCerzD8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnp58Flr6CA&feature=related


As I see it translation is all about transferring concepts not at all about choosing a word for another word. To transfer a concept from one language to another is not possible through choosing a word for a word in the source language. The idea or message expressed in one language by a few words may as well need a lot more words than the original. The proof is in the already existing dictionaries. Just to explain one word we can see sentence after sentence explanation of the very same word. Let me explain by bringing in mathematical expression. a=b(c+d-e)+f(g+h-i) In this expression you can see left side is same as right side even though it contains more elements. There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing a for the rest of the elements in the expression or the other way round. Likewise when a word has an explanation then writing a word or its explanation for better understanding is exactly the same thing. Just as an explanation belongs to the word so the word belongs to the explanation. Simple words are ok for people who have sophisticated minds that have ability to understand the simply expressed forms but less able minds need more explanations therefore the need for more and more expansions of the words through explanations just to ensure the actual concept has been expressed as fully as possible in order to eliminate error as much as possible.


In order to translate the verses you have pointed out, one has to have all possible meanings of each of the used words used in these verses and in addition one must remember that one is translating a message so it ought to have as concept and that concept has to have a context. In addition one must also pay attention to the fact that this message is not just any message but message of God ie a no nonsense message. Therefore rendering it in a way that fulfils all these like requirements is absolutely necessary.

Now take your example about use of word date and look at it in the light of my explanation and see what you get.

Likewise if you translate these like quranic verses to prove miracles by prophet moosaa then you will end up proving quran false because as I already explained make belief ideas would render anything senseless, especially for those not familiar with the quran already and have no ides about its use of language and are logical and fact based thinkers. It is the very reason people treat the quran just like book of any other religion full of superstitious stuff because mullahs have rendered the quran according to their make beliefs. Not only that their such rendering of the quran is wrong but they do not let anyone else interpret it any other way even though the text of the quran can be interpreted the way it should be.

It is all part of grand conspiracy against islam because if islam becomes known as it is supposed to be known then all other isms will have no place in the world and that is why nonmuslim sources fund our ruling elite parties and our mullah organisations that fool muslim masses and so all such participants use and abuse masses as they please in the name of politics, economics and religion etc etc.

This is why if we are really interested in our own well being then we must rediscover quran for what it is. This is why we must see what were rules sir syed promoted and what was the idea farahi promoted and why iqbal and jinnah and parwez like people became convinced that those ideas were right and developed them further because they saw them as worthy ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RA5XAdbJ04&feature=related

regards and all the best.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Bhai main tu kah raha hoon k Is Ayat main sub k sath dar guzar karny ko kaha hy Magar Hazoor SW ko


Magar Allah ny convent breach karny par unpar curse kia hy. aur jis par Allah ka curse ho wo nijat yafta sirf ap ki nazar main ho sakthy hakikat main nahi.

Jis ny breach of convent kia us par Allah ny Curse kia. aur curse of Allah wala fear main he hoga end par Azad nahi hoga fear sy.

Dear brother Abdullah, could you please explain what is meant by words like LAA NAT, GHAZAB and AZAAB of Allah. To me these only mean Allah does not approve of certain things people do because they cause them harm which means they lead them away from bliss that Allah wants them to receive through their own effort as per his guidance. These terms are not used to express punishment by Allah for their sins because Allah is not cruel to his creatures. These are painful sufferings that people bring upon themselves by not going about life the way they told will be good for them. It is like you tell a child don't put your hand in fire you will regret it. But child just goes ahead ignoring the advice given and burns himself and suffers for it. Had he listen to advice he would have saved himself from this pain.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Bhai main tu kah raha hoon k Is Ayat main sub k sath dar guzar karny ko kaha hy Magar Hazoor SW ko


Magar Allah ny convent breach karny par unpar curse kia hy. aur jis par Allah ka curse ho wo nijat yafta sirf ap ki nazar main ho sakthy hakikat main nahi.

Jis ny breach of convent kia us par Allah ny Curse kia. aur curse of Allah wala fear main he hoga end par Azad nahi hoga fear sy.

You know that you are wrong. ye ayyet koi itni complicated nahi hai. Guilty ppl main aik exception bata di gayi hai. Zahir hai ppl under exception are not under curse.

Agar tum ghor se 7:157 to 7:159 ko read karo ... you will note k 7:159 bhi basically 7:157 main aik exception hai. Means k kuch aur log bhi (under exception of 7:159) successful hain jo k 7:157 ka criteria meet nahi karte.....


issi tarah yahan bhi pehle under curse logon ka zikar hai ... phir aik exception bata di gayi hai k there are few ppl who might apparently seem to be under criteria of curse but they are not under curse and there is special safarish before prophet k on few ppl se dar-guzar kiya jaye aur forgive kiya jaye.

Ye dar-guzar aur forgive siraf Prophet ne karna hai. Hamare ya aap k wo log mujram nahi hain ... May be in the individual capacity ... they may be better than both of us.

On logon se even Allah ko bhi koi personal complaint nahi hai. 5:69,2:62 and 7:159 are clear proofs.

Wo aise Jews/Christians nahi hain jin tak message nahi pohuncha. Message has been reached .... and they are still Jews/Christians .... They are still fulfilling the criteria of 2:62,5:69 and 7:159. They will be free of fear and grief. Proof to this fact is that Prophet (PBUH) on se dar-guzar karain gy aur on ko forgive kar dein gy. So they will be free of grief and fear. Not because they broke any promise. But because of their positive doings. Like fulfilling the conditions of 2:62,5:69 and 7:159

Regards!

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother Abdullah, it is not me who has problem with understanding of concept of translation or interpretation. The best thing to do for you is to translate the verses as you wish and then prove their meanings make sense. If you can do that then I will accept your version otherwise I will point out the problems with your translation.

Also it will be a good idea that you begin with explanation of concept of translation as you understand it so that it could be examined properly whether your understanding of the concept of translation makes any sense to anyone or not.

RULES FOR translations or INTERPRETATION

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Translation

http://www.ukessays.com/essays/translation/translating-texts.php

http://abctranslations.com/translation-services/default.aspx

http://www.languagealliance.com/legal-translation-tips/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation

http://french.about.com/cs/translation/a/introduction_3.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvxJZV0sxJc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekNKbCerzD8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnp58Flr6CA&feature=related


As I see it translation is all about transferring concepts not at all about choosing a word for another word. To transfer a concept from one language to another is not possible through choosing a word for a word in the source language. The idea or message expressed in one language by a few words may as well need a lot more words than the original. The proof is in the already existing dictionaries. Just to explain one word we can see sentence after sentence explanation of the very same word. Let me explain by bringing in mathematical expression. a=b(c+d-e)+f(g+h-i) In this expression you can see left side is same as right side even though it contains more elements. There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing a for the rest of the elements in the expression or the other way round. Likewise when a word has an explanation then writing a word or its explanation for better understanding is exactly the same thing. Just as an explanation belongs to the word so the word belongs to the explanation. Simple words are ok for people who have sophisticated minds that have ability to understand the simply expressed forms but less able minds need more explanations therefore the need for more and more expansions of the words through explanations just to ensure the actual concept has been expressed as fully as possible in order to eliminate error as much as possible.


In order to translate the verses you have pointed out, one has to have all possible meanings of each of the used words used in these verses and in addition one must remember that one is translating a message so it ought to have as concept and that concept has to have a context. In addition one must also pay attention to the fact that this message is not just any message but message of God ie a no nonsense message. Therefore rendering it in a way that fulfils all these like requirements is absolutely necessary.

Now take your example about use of word date and look at it in the light of my explanation and see what you get.

Likewise if you translate these like quranic verses to prove miracles by prophet moosaa then you will end up proving quran false because as I already explained make belief ideas would render anything senseless, especially for those not familiar with the quran already and have no ides about its use of language and are logical and fact based thinkers. It is the very reason people treat the quran just like book of any other religion full of superstitious stuff because mullahs have rendered the quran according to their make beliefs. Not only that their such rendering of the quran is wrong but they do not let anyone else interpret it any other way even though the text of the quran can be interpreted the way it should be.

It is all part of grand conspiracy against islam because if islam becomes known as it is supposed to be known then all other isms will have no place in the world and that is why nonmuslim sources fund our ruling elite parties and our mullah organisations that fool muslim masses and so all such participants use and abuse masses as they please in the name of politics, economics and religion etc etc.

This is why if we are really interested in our own well being then we must rediscover quran for what it is. This is why we must see what were rules sir syed promoted and what was the idea farahi promoted and why iqbal and jinnah and parwez like people became convinced that those ideas were right and developed them further because they saw them as worthy ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RA5XAdbJ04&feature=related

regards and all the best.

Just post the translation simple

of the Ayath i asked.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You know that you are wrong. ye ayyet koi itni complicated nahi hai. Guilty ppl main aik exception bata di gayi hai. Zahir hai ppl under exception are not under curse.

Agar tum ghor se 7:157 to 7:159 ko read karo ... you will note k 7:159 bhi basically 7:157 main aik exception hai. Means k kuch aur log bhi (under exception of 7:159) successful hain jo k 7:157 ka criteria meet nahi karte.....


issi tarah yahan bhi pehle under curse logon ka zikar hai ... phir aik exception bata di gayi hai k there are few ppl who might apparently seem to be under criteria of curse but they are not under curse and there is special safarish before prophet k on few ppl se dar-guzar kiya jaye aur forgive kiya jaye.

Ye dar-guzar aur forgive siraf Prophet ne karna hai. Hamare ya aap k wo log mujram nahi hain ... May be in the individual capacity ... they may be better than both of us.

On logon se even Allah ko bhi koi personal complaint nahi hai. 5:69,2:62 and 7:159 are clear proofs.

Wo aise Jews/Christians nahi hain jin tak message nahi pohuncha. Message has been reached .... and they are still Jews/Christians .... They are still fulfilling the criteria of 2:62,5:69 and 7:159. They will be free of fear and grief. Proof to this fact is that Prophet (PBUH) on se dar-guzar karain gy aur on ko forgive kar dein gy. So they will be free of grief and fear. Not because they broke any promise. But because of their positive doings. Like fulfilling the conditions of 2:62,5:69 and 7:159

Regards!

Bhai 5:13 kahti k jis ny promise PURA nai kia wo Allah k curse ka hakdar hy

Ub agar ap ya kahty ho k 5:69,2:62 and 7:159 main jin ka zikar hy unhoon y promise nai PURA kia phir tu ya 5:13 ki Mojodgi main possible nahi hy.

Durguzar ka taluk Exception sy nahi hy Ayath k Tasalsul check karo
And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook

Exception ka zikar deceit sy hy k kuch hain jo deceit nai karty. is context main "But forgive them and overlook" ko parho.


mujhy yakeen nai ata k 5:13 main saaf likha k jis ny Wada PURA nai kia yaan you can say WADA TORA wo curse main hain Allah k and you are saying k 5:69,2:62 and 7:159 main jo log hain unhoon y wada pura nai kia.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother Abdullah, could you please explain what is meant by words like LAA NAT, GHAZAB and AZAAB of Allah. To me these only mean Allah does not approve of certain things people do because they cause them harm which means they lead them away from bliss that Allah wants them to receive through their own effort as per his guidance. These terms are not used to express punishment by Allah for their sins because Allah is not cruel to his creatures. These are painful sufferings that people bring upon themselves by not going about life the way they told will be good for them. It is like you tell a child don't put your hand in fire you will regret it. But child just goes ahead ignoring the advice given and burns himself and suffers for it. Had he listen to advice he would have saved himself from this pain.

Not going to open debate on this at this time.

Let say you are right still what i am trying to say is CORRECT .

Curse=These are painful sufferings that people bring upon themselves

Allah curse(bring painful sufferings upon themselves) is on those who breach convent

and those who bring painful sufferings upon themselves can not be said free of grief.

any way

You please post the tranlsation of the Ayath i asked