Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
A person can always specifically ask again, if it is so important, really not a big deal.
Quranist/ Parwezi glossary of religious terms.
- Thread starter observer-x
- Start date
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Yes, there is a paradise, but it seems you won't be entering it.No Parwezi is the way to go man. No rituals. No hardwork. Easy path to paradise. Or is there a paradise in Parwezi religion??
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Tried it few times but pakistani arrogance comes in the way of certain people
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Follow Parwez and enter Paradise. Really?? That simple?Yes, there is a paradise, but it seems you won't be entering it.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
The Quran disagrees with you, that the Quran is both objective and subjective and thats why it always challeges the person to think and ponder over it.
"It is He who has sent down to you [O Muhammad] the Book; in it are verses that are clear (muhkamat) — they are the foundation of the Book — and others that are ambiguous (mutashabihat). But those whose hearts are perverse follow the ambiguous part, seeking discord and seeking its interpretation. But no one knows its true interpretation except Allah. And those firm in knowledge say, 'We believe in it. All of it is from our Lord.' And no one will be reminded except those of understanding."
(Surah Aal-E-Imran 3:7)
Unfortunately he also has nothing different to bring to the table and just keeps repeating the same thing over and over and just ignores any actual challenges or arguments given to him.
Wake up Pak
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Don't you want to enter Paradise? Then follow the Quran alone.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
You brought in the ayah that does not mention my exact argument.
Its your opinion and I disagree with it. He's the nicest person to have a discussion with. Arrogance only suits Allah, you're demeaning him only because he chose to ignore certain things which you agreed you do that too is despicable.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
You mean follow Parwezi ideology and Paradise is guaranteed?
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
That is because you are reading the Quran with your biases of what you have been taught prevously, only way you can really understand the Quran now is as if you are reading it for the very first time without have any prior knowledge of Islam or what you know about it. Literally you have to start from a clean slate.
Well then we will just have to agree to disagree, yes he is nice but like I said doesn't bring anything really new or meaning full to the table. You present an argument and he will just say oh but that has been disproven, without giving any actual reference to how.
And don't jump and reply. I am formulating a reply for your عبادات and معاملات, so don't go running say that I am dodgeing your questions. So wait for it.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Told you you don't have a capability to engage in any argument. Your responses are weak and when pointed out you counter with "because you're <blank> you can't understand". Going ad hominem will make you feel happy but you lose other people's trust.
I know you don't like being called wrong about anything, shows your low self esteem.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
For this we will have to understand what does Ibadat really means. Ibadat means when you have totally given yourself up so someone and follow and do what ever that someone says. He then becomes your Mabudh i.e the one you worship and adore and you become his abid i.e the one who worships and adores, the worshipper and adorer. So when you are following the commands of your Mabudh you are doing his ibadah. If you follow and obey Allahs commands then you are doing his ibadah and he is your mabudh. But if you are following your sect, your madhab, your scholars then they become your mabudh and by following and obeying them you are doing their ibadat
And mamalat a term which the Quran does not contain are human interactions, contracts, and societal laws governing relationships between people. Outside of the major commands Allah gives like not to kill, steal, what is halal and haram so on a so forth, Allah also tells us how to handle our mamalat so a better society for all mankind kind be established. So carrying out your "mamlat" according to your specific madhab if in accordance to Allah's commands is also actually Ibadat
Again the Quran is void of both these terms which came in waaay later through hadith. But if you read the Quran its not very difficult to guage what the rights of Allah.
Exclusive Right to Worship
"And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him..." (Quran 17:23)
"Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him..." (Quran 4:36)
Prohibition of Shirk (Associating Partners with Allah)
"Indeed, Allah does not forgive associating others with Him [shirk], but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills..." (Quran 4:48)
Obedience to Allah Above All
"It is not for a believing man or woman—when Allah and His Messenger decree a matter—to have any choice in their matter..." (Quran 33:36)
Allah’s Right Over All Creation
"I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me." (Quran 51:56)
Allah’s Right to Judge and Command
"The command rests with none but Allah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him..." (Quran 12:40)
Similarly Quran is also void of the term Huqooq Al Ibad and cannot even be found in the hadith. But only later introduced into Islam by "fiqh scholars" But looking at it strictly from the Qurans point of view and in relation to this post. Huqooq Al Ibad are nothing but "mamlat" which as explained earlier are part of ibadah of Allah.
I can go into detail of what these are from the Quran if you want. Like I did with حقوق الله butin the interest of saving time and you reading very long posts which I know you like to skip over I didn't
I know this answer is not satisfactory to you because you were hoping or think that ibadat and حقوق الله would be your rituals like namaz, roza, hajj. But they are not.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
That's the definition of word اطاعت not عبادت. You whole premise is wrong.
Definition of معاملات is correct and its relationship to عبادات. Your emphasis is on معاملات which I don't deny. But basic understanding of عبادات is missing. When you miss عبادات you automatically miss the concept of حقوق الله.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
I like chapgpt version of حقوق الله. Still waiting on definition of عبادات from you.
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Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Dude relax. I thought we were having ceasefire and a civil conversation under the terms of said ceasefire? When did I attack you in this post. Why are you so uptight. Chill man! Its just simple advise, like you have to purify yourself before you do your salat Similarly one has to purify his mind from previous biases. I dunno what you are so upset about?
You say this for the second time and I disagree once again. You want me to cite the very recent example again where there was an error in translation, you spotted it and in the very next post, I accepted it and even thanked you for it. Wasiq thought I mocked him or said something rude to him and the very next post I unconditionally apologized to him.
I am more than capable of eating humble pie when required.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Like I said you won't find my reply satisfactory because I'm not giving you the answer you want which has to include your rituals.
Already replied to.
But once again you will never find my reply satisfactory in this case because I'm not giving you the answer you want which has to at every cost include your rituals.
AND there is absolutely no basis that Ibadat means your rituals in the Quran. Even the term huqooq Allah does not exist in the Quran and is an innovation from the hadith. And I am not here to prove concepts foriegn to the Quran from the hadith. That is the pro hadith camp's job. I am on the other side of the fence.
It's like asking a Christian to prove the Quran is the word of God ?!?!?!?!
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
To remind you... I told you the Quranic ayah does not address the point of argument. And your reply was what? Rather than saying let me explain this way or other or here's another Quranic verses, you said I won't get it coz I'm <so and so>
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
I get it you know the definition will include rituals and its a checkmate for you and your ideology. But using اطاعت to mean عبادات, it is disingenuous.
Wait.. let me ask you this, is there a word توحيد in Quran?
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
See Allah works in mysterious ways. You had this bias in your mind that my intention is to somehow belittle you, mock you, insult you etc etc so even when I was actually trying to give you some good advise you thought I was making fun of you. WHy because your of your bias, you could not see past that even though you might have been trying to.
To remind you... I told you the Quranic ayah does not address the point of argument. And your reply was what? Rather than saying let me explain this way or other or here's another Quranic verses, you said I won't get it coz I'm <so and so>
Similarly when you read the Quran with your previous biases still clouding your mind, you will not be able to understand it. For example Everytime you will read the word salah you will automatically think this means your ritual namaz. You will not even consider that it could mean anything else but namaz or read further on or compare the use of the word salat everytime it occurs in the Quran and see if namaz actually fits into those verses. Or when it say Attiur Rasool your mind will automatically think this means hadith, so on and so forth.
So to really understand the Quran one has to clear his mind of everything and then read it. Other wise its just confirmation bias.
observer-x
Councller (250+ posts)
Too many assumptions bro. I won't go into more details on this.
