Quranist/ Parwezi glossary of religious terms.

[observer-x]

Anyone who does not believe that the Quran is detailed and complete is following the footsteps of a Satanic Cult.
observer-x

Since you like putting out fatwas. And what about the one who doesn't believe in reading Quran in the language that Allah chose?

 

[Wake up Pak]

Since you like putting out fatwas. And what about the one who doesn't believe in reading Quran in the language that Allah chose?

Anyone who does not believe that the Quran is detailed and complete is following the footsteps of a Satanic Cult. Have I stepped on your tail by posting it?

 

[observer-x]

Anyone who does not believe that the Quran is detailed and complete is following the footsteps of a Satanic Cult. Have I stepped on your tail by posting it?

Great to hear from a Parwezi who literally doesn't practice deen at all in any form, out of nowhere wants to call everyone else a non believer for practising deen? It takes grit to do that you know.

How does that work? Maybe "empty vessels make the most noise"

 

[Wake up Pak]

Great to hear from a Parwezi who literally doesn't practice deen at all in any form, out of nowhere wants to call everyone else a non believer for practising deen? It takes grit to do that you know.

How does that work? Maybe "empty vessels make the most noise"

The majority of us, irrespective of whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or Hindu, went through a process of brainwashing, which led us into the plight of indoctrination, which is deeply infused into our subconscious. And, whatever the indoctrination, we will fight tooth and nail to retain those indoctrinations, regardless of whether they are correct or incorrect.
Regretably, the so-called Muslims are a product of a fabricated Islam of Mullahs. The Mullahs have seized our right to question Islam as they consider it a major sin, and only they are authorized & have the rights to interpret the Quranic verses based on Ahadith, etc.

 

[Citizen X]

We have books and books written on usul of hadith, tafseer, fiqh ... you name it. We proudly discuss all these points with scholars.

So what? Even Christians, Jews and Hindus have the same discussing their corrupted or fake religions. So does that make them right too?

You think we're going to answer you

You're the ones who jump in excitedly think you'll score somekind of victory in a post or two!

I'm only here to try to save naive muslims from your misguidance.

Thats the problem with you guys, can't even keep your own stories straight, just a few posts back you were telling me its your "job" to show me the truth. So which one is it? Make up your mind already eh!

 

[Citizen X]

Here take his hadith, your fate is written in the very words you deny:

إِنَّمَا الْأَعْمَالُ بِالنِّيَّاتِ
Verily actions are will be judged by their intentions

My intention here is to save naive muslims from the misguidance of the worst of the worse creatures that Prophet SAW himself foretold of:

Narrated Abu Rafi: The Prophet SAW said: “I do not want to find any one of you reclining on his couch, and when something that I have commanded to be done or forbidden comes to him, he says, ‘I do not know; we follow what we find in the Book of Allah.’”

Clarify your intentions...

I got one for you too.

Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) laughed.

Sahih Muslim 1453a - The Book of Suckling - كتاب الرضاع - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Next time you are having privacy and parda issues in your house, tell all the women in your house to breast feed all the adultmen, your friends, the plumber, the gardner, the cook etc etc. So from then on, its all good. Because you mushriks also associate this garbage and absurd nonsense to the Prophet and then claim we hate the Prophet. Only people who want to character assassinate the prophet and make him look like a lunatic ( astaghfirullah )will come up with such bullshit.

Forget that, can you openly narrate such garbage to you mother, wife, sister or daughters?

Thats why you Ahl e Bukhari are the biggest enemies of Islam and haters of the Prophet.

I swear I feel embarrassed to even mentioned such blasphemous garbage here, but sometimes a good knock can free up some jammed parts.

 

[Citizen X]

Really? And where did you get this notion from?

From bhaands like the dollar scholar Assim Al Ghabbi

 

[Citizen X]

The majority of us, irrespective of whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or Hindu, went through a process of brainwashing, which led us into the plight of indoctrination, which is deeply infused into our subconscious. And, whatever the indoctrination, we will fight tooth and nail to retain those indoctrinations, regardless of whether they are correct or incorrect.
Regretably, the so-called Muslims are a product of a fabricated Islam of Mullahs. The Mullahs have seized our right to question Islam as they consider it a major sin, and only they are authorized & have the rights to interpret the Quranic verses based on Ahadith, etc.

Abhay yaar don't use such big words, itni brain capacity nahi hai. Agar hoti to kya yeh munafiq mushirk hota?

 

[Citizen X]

Garbage once again in severe contradiction with the Quran

 

[wasiqjaved]

Really? And where did you get this notion from?

This “notion” isn’t mine—it’s been the understanding of mainstream Islamic scholarship for over 1,400 years. The Quran gives us the divine message, the laws, principles, and moral framework. But in many cases, it doesn’t explain the practical details.

Examples?

• Salah: The Quran tells us to establish prayer—but how many times a day, what to recite, how to bow/sujood? That's not detailed in the Quran. The Prophet ﷺ showed us how—that’s context.
• Zakah: Quran commands it, but the specifics (2.5%, nisab, types of wealth)? Again, the Prophet ﷺ gave the practical application.

Even the Quran itself says:

“And We have revealed to you the message so that you may clarify to the people what was sent down to them…” (Quran 16:44)

That clarification was done through the actions and words of the Prophet ﷺ, i.e., Hadith.

No one is claiming Hadith is equal to the Quran. But to understand and implement the Quran properly, Hadith provides the necessary context, explanation, and lived example of the Messenger ﷺ.

That’s not a “notion”—that’s basic Usool al-Fiqh (principles of Islamic law).

 

[wasiqjaved]

YES! Exactly, the deen was completed. So naturally anything that comes after this is obviously not a part of the deen

So where do these hadith "gathered" by these Irani mullahs 200 years after the Prophet died come into play from?
Did the prophet authorized the writing of these narrations, did he condone them, did his closet companion and khulafah rashidun condone them? The answer is a big fat no.

If Allah had wanted these to be part of the deen he would have cleared mentioned in the Quran and he would have protected it just like the Quran in protected.

If they were direct eye witness accounts told and recorded by the actual eye witnessess then maybe we could think about it but Hadith is just hearsay, Bablu heard that Dabbu heard from Khabbu that he heard from Motu that he heard from Langra than he heard from Kaaliya that he heard X say or do this. Now who are all these dabbus and khabbus in the middle we have no idea and each dabbu and khabbu spans and entire generation. Calling the authencity of these narrations even flimsy will be laughable. Let alone stamping them with big seal sayin "SAHIH" that is until someone scholar comes along and declares previously though of as sahih hadith fabricated and previously though of as fabricated hadith as sahih.

So you see what a humomgous mess this whole hadith business is!

Appreciate the passion, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Yes, Deen was completed—but it was completed through the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, not in spite of him. The Quran commands us again and again to follow the Prophet ﷺ, not just the book. You can’t isolate the message from the Messenger.

Your argument that Hadith = "Bablu heard from Dabbu" is a gross oversimplification. Islamic scholars developed rigorous sciences of hadith authentication (ilm al-rijal, isnad, matn criticism) over centuries—this isn't "hearsay at a chai dhaba." It’s academic, it’s documented, and no other religion even attempted something this sophisticated.

Did every Hadith make the cut? No—and that's why we have classifications: Sahih, Hasan, Da’if, Mawdu, etc. You don’t dismiss all Hadith because some are weak—just like you don’t stop reading history because some sources are questionable.

Also, many of the Prophet’s ﷺ companions did preserve, teach, and pass on his sayings—not just in writing, but also orally. Abu Hurairah, Aisha (RA), Ibn Abbas, Umar (RA)— you are more than welcome to dismiss any of them, but that doesn't mean their work don't matter.

Hadith was never equal to the Quran, and no scholar ever claimed that. But to follow the Quran properly, you sometimes need the context, and that’s what Hadith offers—not as scripture, but as explanation.

Why this matters:​

The Quran tells us:

“Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatever he forbids you, abstain from it.” (59:7)

Also:

“And We have revealed to you the Reminder (Quran) so that you may explain to the people what was sent down to them…” (16:44)

So even the Quran itself acknowledges that the Prophet ﷺ’s role was not only to deliver the message, but to explain and demonstrate it.

The Quran does command us to follow the Prophet ﷺ.​

• “Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah.” (Quran 4:80)
• “Say: If you love Allah, then follow me [Prophet ﷺ], and Allah will love you…” (Quran 3:31)

The Prophet ﷺ’s words, actions, and rulings were all part of conveying and living the Quran. That’s Hadith. Just because the Quran didn’t mention the word "Hadith books" or "Sahih Bukhari" doesn’t mean that the principle of following the Messenger isn't part of Deen.

So yes—Quran is protected. But that doesn’t mean everything else must be discarded. That’s not completion of Deen—that’s reduction of Deen. Hadith are human efforts to preserve the Prophet’s ﷺ teachings, and they are graded (Sahih, Hasan, Da’if, etc.) for authenticity. That’s intellectual honesty, not divine perfection.

 

[wasiqjaved]

YES! Exactly, the deen was completed. So naturally anything that comes after this is obviously not a part of the deen

So where do these hadith "gathered" by these Irani mullahs 200 years after the Prophet died come into play from?
Did the prophet authorized the writing of these narrations, did he condone them, did his closet companion and khulafah rashidun condone them? The answer is a big fat no.

If Allah had wanted these to be part of the deen he would have cleared mentioned in the Quran and he would have protected it just like the Quran in protected.

If they were direct eye witness accounts told and recorded by the actual eye witnessess then maybe we could think about it but Hadith is just hearsay, Bablu heard that Dabbu heard from Khabbu that he heard from Motu that he heard from Langra than he heard from Kaaliya that he heard X say or do this. Now who are all these dabbus and khabbus in the middle we have no idea and each dabbu and khabbu spans and entire generation. Calling the authencity of these narrations even flimsy will be laughable. Let alone stamping them with big seal sayin "SAHIH" that is until someone scholar comes along and declares previously though of as sahih hadith fabricated and previously though of as fabricated hadith as sahih.

So you see what a humomgous mess this whole hadith business is!

Look, no one is putting Hadith on the same level as the Quran. The Quran is directly from Allah, perfect, and protected. Hadith is not revelation, and it’s never treated as such by any serious scholar.

But Hadith isn’t some random material “written by Irani mullahs centuries later.” That’s a caricature, not reality.

The Hadith are records of what the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ said and did during his lifetime. These sayings were memorized, taught, and passed down by his companions, many of whom were direct eyewitnesses.

Yes, they were compiled in written form later — but that doesn’t mean they were “made up later.” Even the Quran was compiled into one book after the Prophet’s ﷺ death — does that make it invalid too?

The major Hadith collectors like Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi didn’t just write anything they heard. They applied strict criteria to check who narrated what, how reliable the person was, and whether the chain was unbroken. That's serious scholarship, not "Bablu heard from Dabbu."

So the goal of Hadith isn’t to add new beliefs, but to preserve how the Prophet ﷺ lived and explained the Quran. That’s it.

And again: Hadith can be questioned, evaluated, and even rejected if weak. But to throw out all Hadith because some came later in writing is like saying all history is fake because it wasn’t live-streamed.
Also, this idea that “Irani mullahs” created Hadith is just sectarian bait. Scholars like Imam Bukhari were from Uzbekistan, Imam Malik from Madina, Imam Ahmad from Baghdad, and none of them were pushing some "Shia agenda." Let's not rewrite history to suit personal narratives.

 

[Wake up Pak]

The Quran gives us the divine message, the laws, principles, and moral framework. But in many cases, it doesn’t explain the practical details.

What about the Quranic verses that say the Quran is detailed and complete? After these verses, do we need to look outside the Book of Allah for details?

 

[Citizen X]

Appreciate the passion, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Nope, when it comes to these fabrications, this is exactly what we have to do.

The Quran commands us again and again to follow the Prophet ﷺ,

I challenge you or anyone else reading this on the forum to find me a single verse in the Quran than says to obey the prophet. Just one. You won't find it because it is not there.

Your argument that Hadith = "Bablu heard from Dabbu" is a gross oversimplification. Islamic scholars developed rigorous sciences of hadith authentication (ilm al-rijal, isnad, matn criticism) over centuries—this isn't "hearsay at a chai dhaba." It’s academic, it’s documented, and no other religion even attempted something this sophisticated.

Did every Hadith make the cut? No—and that's why we have classifications: Sahih, Hasan, Da’if, Mawdu, etc. You don’t dismiss all Hadith because some are weak—just like you don’t stop reading history because some sources are questionable.

It is NOT, it is actually much worse. Go look into it. These moulvis and scholars for dollars have built a huge narrative for centuries around this making up huge claims as it is a "science" and Classifications, well researched blah blah blah, just so ordinary folk don't question it. I think I've said it before, you wouldn't spent $50 to buy a used washing machine based how these "sciences" authenticate claims.

Go look this up, the sunni Quran i.e Sahih Bukhari it self cannot be labled as Sahih according to the standard set by your own hadith sciences and muhadithsun. At best it can be mahjoul, Same is the case with Musnad Ibn Hanbal.

And yes you don't dismiss history, because we don't worship and obey history, we don't live our lives according to what history says. We don't base our laws and regulations based on history. And ironically. Hadith at best is a vague account of early Islamic history to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

So its ok to marry a 6 yr old, have your wife breast feed male non mahram adults and much worse, because these hadith still exist in your books and till today are classified as Sahih?

Also, many of the Prophet’s ﷺ companions did preserve, teach, and pass on his sayings—not just in writing, but also orally. Abu Hurairah, Aisha (RA), Ibn Abbas, Umar (RA)— you are more than welcome to dismiss any of them, but that doesn't mean their work don't matter.

No they did not, his closet companions who spent the most time with him. Abu Bakr and Umar, narrated less than 50 combined ( According to Dr Ghamdi ) and that dubious character Abu Hurirah who real name also you people don't know, spent the least amount of time with the prophet narrated the most amount of hadith. And there were no or aren't any books of hadith from the time of Khulafa Rashidun, the tabieen, the taba tabieen. Only when the first few generations of the Muslims passed away did these Irani babas started to "collect hadith"

In fact historical records show that the Sahabas were strictly against the hadith. Abu Bakr and Umar collecting what ever hadith people had written down and burning them. And Umar even beating and sending this Abu Hurairah to jail for narrating too much hadith. But once Umar died he started "narrating" again.

“Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatever he forbids you, abstain from it.” (59:7)

Oh please STOP!!!! Lets not get into the typical sunni deception of out of context and partial Quranic verses to push your hadith agenda. That verse is dealing with war booty and how it was distributed and some people were upset on how the Prophet did the distribution.

The Quran Does Ask Us To Follow The Prophet​

WRONG! It doesn't. Even the verses you qouted don't say to follow the Prophet, the say to follow the Messenger. Allah is not short for words and if he wanted to say prophet he would have said so and he chooses his words with wisdom and there is a reason why in the Quran it never says Atti Un Nabi but always Atti ur Rasool. What did the Rasool preach? The Quran, so when you follow the Quran you automatically follow the Rasool.

The Prophet ﷺ’s words, actions, and rulings were all part of conveying and living the Quran.

Once again you are confusing the duties of a Prophet and a Messenger. A prophet is for his people for his time, and the messenger who brings a message is for everyone even after he is gone.

It's not your fault as you have been brought up in the celeberity and hero worship religion of sunnism. Where Muhammad has been turned into some sort of super hero with superpowers, splitting the moon, water coming out of his fingers and quenching the thrist of a huge group of people, sleeping with dozens of women in one night so on and so forth. You put his name right next to Allah in your houses, offices and masjids and bow down in front on it 5 times a day. Say his name right after Allah's in your sahadas giving him equal stature as Allah. Even when the Quran clearly say he was not but a man and the only miracle he was given was the Quran.

Basically turned Muhammad into a demi god Just like Christians later turned Isa into a god too., but you can't clearly come out and says he is god because of the strong tawheed placed in the Quran. Other wise Muhammad would also be god and like the bible, with the old testament which is what remains of the Torah 300 years then they added stories to the bible which is the new testament.

If it was up to the scholars for dollars The Quran would also have an old Quran section and the new Quran section i.e The hadith.

 

[observer-x]

The majority of us, irrespective of whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, or Hindu, went through a process of brainwashing, which led us into the plight of indoctrination, which is deeply infused into our subconscious. And, whatever the indoctrination, we will fight tooth and nail to retain those indoctrinations, regardless of whether they are correct or incorrect.
Regretably, the so-called Muslims are a product of a fabricated Islam of Mullahs. The Mullahs have seized our right to question Islam as they consider it a major sin, and only they are authorized & have the rights to interpret the Quranic verses based on Ahadith, etc.

Lot of presuppositions. I've been living in West for decades and I have been through all the other distracted positions that including listed about and the ones not even listed.

How do you know if I have not had your position in the past?
Allah is the one who brings us to hidayah, he Alhumdulillah brought me back from all others things I had taken up.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Allah is the one who brings us to hidayah, he Alhumdulillah brought me back from all others things I had taken up.

Allah has given us his book of Hidaya (Guidance) i.e. the Quran. It seems like you have not yet attained Hidaya from the Quran.

 

[observer-x]

So what? Even Christians, Jews and Hindus have the same discussing their corrupted or fake religions. So does that make them right too?

Exactly... all starts from belief first. Your're indoctrinated to believe in rejecting Hadith and you've been building on it.

We believe Hadith is a complementary text supporting Quran.

Thats the problem with you guys, can't even keep your own stories straight, just a few posts back you were telling me its your "job" to show me the truth. So which one is it? Make up your mind already eh!

I've been doing dawah in west to every possible religion/ sect you can think of for years and years and I've told you time and time again I don't convey the message to convince anyone.

Hidayah comes from Allah alone, out job is to just convey. If hidayah is to reach you it'll reach you right before your time of death too. We never get disappointed if someone doesn't "get it". Unlike you who's only goal is to convince it by hook or by crook or else start cursing thinking as if you've gotten some moral victory over another.

My only thing in this forum is to tackle misguidance being spread to dejected young pakistani muslims.

 

[observer-x]

I got one for you too.

Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) laughed.

Sahih Muslim 1453a - The Book of Suckling - كتاب الرضاع - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Next time you are having privacy and parda issues in your house, tell all the women in your house to breast feed all the adultmen, your friends, the plumber, the gardner, the cook etc etc. So from then on, its all good. Because you mushriks also associate this garbage and absurd nonsense to the Prophet and then claim we hate the Prophet. Only people who want to character assassinate the prophet and make him look like a lunatic ( astaghfirullah )will come up with such bullshit.

Forget that, can you openly narrate such garbage to you mother, wife, sister or daughters?

Thats why you Ahl e Bukhari are the biggest enemies of Islam and haters of the Prophet.

I swear I feel embarrassed to even mentioned such blasphemous garbage here, but sometimes a good knock can free up some jammed parts.

Role of shaytan is to find fault in everything and have you choose something which is skeptical over something which is clear.

We meet people in dawah who bring faults with Quran too. Do I have to listen to all of them to logically convince them of their crooked inferences they bring in? No.

 

[Citizen X]

Look, no one is putting Hadith on the same level as the Quran. The Quran is directly from Allah, perfect, and protected. Hadith is not revelation, and it’s never treated as such by any serious scholar.

Or maybe you just haven't been paying attention to your so own called serious scholars. I will find you a dozen of them who say the hadith is from Allah and the moment you have doubt, just doubt and not even reject any hadith. You are instantly a kaffir, done and dusted, case closed.

But Hadith isn’t some random material “written by Irani mullahs centuries later.”

It really actually is. Look up all the "collectors" of your Sahih Sitta. All of them from Khorasan, mostly modern day Iran.

The Hadith are records of what the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ said and did during his lifetime. These sayings were memorized, taught, and passed down by his companions, many of whom were direct eyewitnesses.

Once again the Bablu and Dabbu example comes into play. There is no way of really autenticating to any real certainty any of this and the methods invented by your muhadithsun are laughable at best. Eyewitness testimony is the weakest form of evidence, even today and some one just repeating what he heard from an eyewitness is called hearsay, hadith is hearsay multiplied to the power of 10

And even many "sahabas" were liars and hypocrites the Quran says so and only Allah can see whats in a man's heart. There are historical records that show Aisha straight up calling Mr Dubious a.k.a Abu Hurirah as a liar and making up stories about the Prophet.

Even the Quran was compiled into one book after the Prophet’s ﷺ death — does that make it invalid too?

You only believe that because your hadith books tell you it was like this. You think the Prophet left this Earth with the most important book sent down from Allah till the end of time scattered all over the place, with pieces of it written on tree bark, bones and stones? You mean to say he utterly failed at the most important job Allah had bestowed him with? The Quran was written and preseved as a single book during the Prophets time under his supervision. Today we even have manuscripts that can be carbondated to the time of Prophet.

And then it is said we hate and insult the Prophet! All the while the sunnis make a mockery of him.

The major Hadith collectors like Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi didn’t just write anything they heard. They applied strict criteria to check who narrated what, how reliable the person was, and whether the chain was unbroken. That's serious scholarship, not "Bablu heard from Dabbu."

You know this is where you people fail to use your common sense and try to put 1+1=2 and not 3 but since this is so Islamic academics you instantly shutdown your intellectual facalties and just blindly believe what ever is told to you.

Lets take the greatest sunni hadith imam Abū ʿAbd Allāh Muḥammad ibn Ismāʿīl ibn Ibrāhīm al-Juʿfī al-Bukhārī a.k.a Bukhari. It is said he made great efforts to verify each and every hadith he collected often travelling to far off lands to verify the narrator and isnad. Yemen, Baghdad, Kufa, Syria, Egypt, Basra etc etc. Allegedly memorizing a mind blowing 600,000 hadiths!!!!

As per the sunni sources and bhukari and I qoute

"Imam Bukhari’s methodology for collecting and verifying hadith was meticulous, and his rigorous approach involved travelling extensively to gather hadith from various sources and verify their authenticity. His process included a strict selection criterion that evaluated the reliability of the narrators and the authenticity of the text. He collected over 600,000 hadith but only included around 7,275 in his Sahih al-Bukhari. To further refine this process, he travelled hundreds of miles to check the authenticity of a single hadith, which took months at that time."

NOW lets see if the math, maths! From age 16 to 40, so thats 24 years, 365 days in a year, so thats 8760 days. And now lets takes his 600,000 hadith he collected, verified and memorized. So thats about 68 hadith per day, Almost 3 hadith per hour nonstop for every day for 24 years, for which he did all of the above etc etc. You think that is humanly possible? Use your common sense man!

Not even mentioning the 98.79% rejection rate here. Would you ever give business to a manufacturing company that whatever it manufactures almost 99% of it fails inspection!!!!!

So the goal of Hadith isn’t to add new beliefs

BUT that's exactly what your hadith does. Just as a though experiment. Imagine if there was no Quran and only the hadith. How much different would your beliefs, practices, rituals, laws etc etc would be than they are now? Answer is no one would even hardly see any difference if any.

NOW do the opposite, imagine if there were no hadith and only the Quran ( as its suppose to be ) How much different would your beliefs, practices, rituals, laws etc etc would be than they are now? Answer is totally different. Majority won't even recognize the Islam of hadith from the Islam of the Quran. So in reality your hadith has introduced a whole new religion which is not from the Quran.

And again: Hadith can be questioned, evaluated, and even rejected if weak.

You don't have the guts and your scholars for dollars hide this from you. Like I said start with your own Bukhari and investigate it using your own sunni sources and you will come to the finding that you cannot classify it as Sahih. According to your own hadith science set standards. The entire collection is mahjoul. There is some debate in the Arabic speaking countries over this, mostly the African Arab speaking countries. But desi moulvis won't even touch this subject with a 10 foot pole and keep it swept under the carpet hidden from public view, lest their holyman business gets damaged. The move on the next hadith collection and then the next and you will find severe problem in everyone.

And this is what you obey follow and base your life on???

Here are a few things for you to watch and read answering all your points in greater detail, if you havent already!

Thread 'The Sciences of Hadīth are a Joke'

Apr 5, 2025

In fact calling this junk, science in itself is an insult to science. I've said it for many years that I wouldn't buy a used washing machine for $50 based on this criteria. I rather thrown my $50 down the drain and neither would anyone. But yet majority of todays traditional Muslims are ready to base their entire Duniya, Deen and Akhira on such non-sense! Dunno why all of a sudden perfectly sane people become totally blind and idiotiic when it comes to these things.

wasiqjaved

• Citizen X
• Replies: 29
• Forum: Islamic Corner

Thread 'History Of Hadith : Why The Prophet Forbade It And Khulafa Burnt It'

Oct 4, 2023

The Prophet did not want any documents circulating other than the words of Allah, including documents attributed to him. So how was Hadith recorded? And what is the history of this documentation?

What does hadith say about hadith? In Sahih Muslim narrated on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri, the prophet said “Don’t write about me and anything written about me other than in the Quran should be erased” and in the Sunnan of Al Tirmidhi also on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri “We asked the Propher permission to write and he declined” and Ahmed Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad...

• Citizen X
• Replies: 11
• Forum: Islamic Corner

• 
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[observer-x]

Or maybe you just haven't been paying attention to your so own called serious scholars. I will find you a dozen of them who say the hadith is from Allah and the moment you have doubt, just doubt and not even reject any hadith. You are instantly a kaffir, done and dusted, case closed.

It really actually is. Look up all the "collectors" of your Sahih Sitta. All of them from Khorasan, mostly modern day Iran.


Once again the Bablu and Dabbu example comes into play. There is no way of really autenticating to any real certainty any of this and the methods invented by your muhadithsun are laughable at best. Eyewitness testimony is the weakest form of evidence, even today and some one just repeating what he heard from an eyewitness is called hearsay, hadith is hearsay multiplied to the power of 10

And even many "sahabas" were liars and hypocrites the Quran says so and only Allah can see whats in a man's heart. There are historical records that show Aisha straight up calling Mr Dubious a.k.a Abu Hurirah as a liar and making up stories about the Prophet.


You only believe that because your hadith books tell you it was like this. You think the Prophet left this Earth with the most important book sent down from Allah till the end of time scattered all over the place, with pieces of it written on tree bark, bones and stones? You mean to say he utterly failed at the most important job Allah had bestowed him with? The Quran was written and preseved as a single book during the Prophets time under his supervision. Today we even have manuscripts that can be carbondated to the time of Prophet.

And then it is said we hate and insult the Prophet! All the while the sunnis make a mockery of him.


You know this is where you people fail to use your common sense and try to put 1+1=2 and not 3 but since this is so Islamic academics you instantly shutdown your intellectual facalties and just blindly believe what ever is told to you.

Lets take the greatest sunni hadith imam Abū ʿAbd Allāh Muḥammad ibn Ismāʿīl ibn Ibrāhīm al-Juʿfī al-Bukhārī a.k.a Bukhari. It is said he made great efforts to verify each and every hadith he collected often travelling to far off lands to verify the narrator and isnad. Yemen, Baghdad, Kufa, Syria, Egypt, Basra etc etc. Allegedly memorizing a mind blowing 600,000 hadiths!!!!

As per the sunni sources and bhukari and I qoute

"Imam Bukhari’s methodology for collecting and verifying hadith was meticulous, and his rigorous approach involved travelling extensively to gather hadith from various sources and verify their authenticity. His process included a strict selection criterion that evaluated the reliability of the narrators and the authenticity of the text. He collected over 600,000 hadith but only included around 7,275 in his Sahih al-Bukhari. To further refine this process, he travelled hundreds of miles to check the authenticity of a single hadith, which took months at that time."

NOW lets see if the math, maths! From age 16 to 40, so thats 24 years, 365 days in a year, so thats 8760 days. And now lets takes his 600,000 hadith he collected, verified and memorized. So thats about 68 hadith per day, Almost 3 hadith per hour nonstop for every day for 24 years, for which he did all of the above etc etc. You think that is humanly possible? Use your common sense man!

Not even mentioning the 98.79% rejection rate here. Would you ever give business to a manufacturing company that whatever it manufactures almost 99% of it fails inspection!!!!!

BUT that's exactly what your hadith does. Just as a though experiment. Imagine if there was no Quran and only the hadith. How much different would your beliefs, practices, rituals, laws etc etc would be than they are now? Answer is no one would even hardly see any difference if any.

NOW do the opposite, imagine if there were no hadith and only the Quran ( as its suppose to be ) How much different would your beliefs, practices, rituals, laws etc etc would be than they are now? Answer is totally different. Majority won't even recognize the Islam of hadith from the Islam of the Quran. So in reality your hadith has introduced a whole new religion which is not from the Quran.

You don't have the guts and your scholars for dollars hide this from you. Like I said start with your own Bukhari and investigate it using your own sunni sources and you will come to the finding that you cannot classify it as Sahih. According to your own hadith science set standards. The entire collection is mahjoul. There is some debate in the Arabic speaking countries over this, mostly the African Arab speaking countries. But desi moulvis won't even touch this subject with a 10 foot pole and keep it swept under the carpet hidden from public view, lest their holyman business gets damaged. The move on the next hadith collection and then the next and you will find severe problem in everyone.

And this is what you obey follow and base your life on???

Here are a few things for you to watch and read answering all your points in greater detail, if you havent already!

Thread 'The Sciences of Hadīth are a Joke'

Apr 5, 2025

In fact calling this junk, science in itself is an insult to science. I've said it for many years that I wouldn't buy a used washing machine for $50 based on this criteria. I rather thrown my $50 down the drain and neither would anyone. But yet majority of todays traditional Muslims are ready to base their entire Duniya, Deen and Akhira on such non-sense! Dunno why all of a sudden perfectly sane people become totally blind and idiotiic when it comes to these things.

wasiqjaved

• Citizen X
• Replies: 29
• Forum: Islamic Corner

Thread 'History Of Hadith : Why The Prophet Forbade It And Khulafa Burnt It'

Oct 4, 2023

The Prophet did not want any documents circulating other than the words of Allah, including documents attributed to him. So how was Hadith recorded? And what is the history of this documentation?

What does hadith say about hadith? In Sahih Muslim narrated on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri, the prophet said “Don’t write about me and anything written about me other than in the Quran should be erased” and in the Sunnan of Al Tirmidhi also on the authority of Abu Said Al Khudri “We asked the Propher permission to write and he declined” and Ahmed Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad...

• Citizen X
• Replies: 11
• Forum: Islamic Corner

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Bunch of lies.

Ok fast forward.. the conclusion of writing all the above is what? Don't practice Islam in its form its in? No salah, no saum, no hajj, no zakah, no Islamic family laws?

Be what then? A liberal with no moral. Pathetic.