A True Democracy or Sham Democracy by Molson( Educational)

[molson4u]

Dharna by Imran Khan... Democracy or Sham democracy by Molson

Sham democracy is what we have. Even if this sham democracy stays intact for the first few years, it will take another 25years( 5 elected governments) with free media and free supreme court, to bring meaningful change in Pakistan. A true democracy only comes with changing system and bringing change in people runing those systems. There is no party in Pakistan who is truely democratic in its own rank. Individual following can be seen in PPP(BHUTTO theme) Nawaz theme, Imran theme, Altaf theme, Chaudhari theme and Mulana theme.

For a true democracy, indviduals are not followed but party charter, policies and menifasto is followed. Parties have regular election within its own ranks and new leaders are brought forward with new vision and ideas, it doesn't matter who is the new elected leader. A true democracy takes a soical worker like Obama and makes him the most powerful man on Planet. I await for that day when people in Pakistan will have a right to elect an MP without fear of persecution or compultion of family ties, race, creed, faith and language.

I do admire Imran Khan to be one of the best Social worker in Pakistan but there is a difference in being a social worker and a policy maker for a country. This "Dharna" on the road will not change anything. I my opinion, its also not a right platform. The correct platform will be the following action in a democracy in any civilized democratic country.

1) Write or meet you member of parliment and tell him to take action on this matter.
2) Ask him to bring resolution in the National Assembly or sign a joint resolution.
3) Ask him to talk with his party leadership.
4) take a delegation of constituents to put pressure
5) be clear that you and your family will not Vote for him in the election, if he doesn't support your position.
6) wait for his actions on your advice
7) if he fails, make a social group to oust him out
8) convince other with you position and gain support
9) use social network to tell your friends and relatives not to vote or support him
10) pick a new candidate who support your position and get him elected.

Dharna, burning of tires and buses, buring public property, empty slogans and trafic jams are all anti-democratic ways to gain attention and waste of public time and resources. until we don't learn the true democratic ways, the democracy will not florish in Pakistan.

My heart bleeds for those 2000 innocent civilian who were killed by Drone to killed 22 terrorist. Before we blame the enemy, let's blame ourself first. Who elected this regime by voting them in the government. If after getting elected, they disregard public sentiments then who should we blame... Oursleves first and formost because we made the mistake. Now its up to us to take a democratic approach to handle the mess we got ourself in or should we use burning cars, business, public property, long march or Dharna theme.

Imran bhai wants to use Dharna theme for this public attention, what about all those thousands of innocent people killed in domestic blast in mosques, buses and schools. how about 13 to 18 people killed in target killing in Karachi totalling hundred's in last 3 years.. they were not Pakistani's? or their is no political gain for Imran bhai to raise voice for them. in my view its politican game with a very poor taste. Did imran gave Dhara when Raymond Davis was in jail... why he and his supporter didn't do along march from Karachi to Peshawar and a million dollar question is will this dharan of few hundred and few thousand will make the Government of Pakistan change its foreign policy...?

The answer is NO and you know it. Foreign policies are made in a democracy by elected member of parliments and elected Government keeping the national interests in mind, which we know in the Case of PPP is sold to the highest bidder to the western governments.

We have to change our thinkings. All the revolution in the world came by changing the thinking of the people. The latest example in Egypt, Syria and Libeya are not lead by leaders like Imran but people like you and me. people are tired of one man show and you know and i know from PPP to TIP are all one man show... true democracy takes time and effort and don't come overnight. If we want to bring a positive change in Pakistan we have to first change our thinking and make it a true democratic thinking.... no stoning, burning tires no dharan, road blocks, trafic jams, burning property or killing innocent.

Make you elected people accountable and if the fail. Vote for the right person without worrying about how your parents, friends, neighbor or relatives are voting. Voting is your right and vote with your concious and make sure you vote for a person who has vision for future and a menifesto showing how he will change system from educational, health, economic to foreign policy, if you elect him to be your MNA. If he fails, keep your calm and vote him out in the next election....this recycling process will take 3 or 4 elections and pakistan will also have a mature democracy like UK, Canada or United States.

Its time to change ourselves, our thinking and then change the democratic process. Change always comes from within.​

 

[arslan4u]

Have you thought over all that you wrote before posting? I dont think so.
1. I and none of my other friends follow Imran for his name, we follow him for his character, for his principles and for his straightforwardness. This is a party of ideology and principles, not BIG names.

2. PTI is continuously holding elections in its international chapters and will continue to do this once our organization is completed in each chapter. Imran Khan has said that all positions, including his own, will be democratic and elected. PTI is not like PMLN or PPP who have family parties based on names, e.g Sharifs in PMLN and Bhuttos in PPP. Imran Khan has not chosen his successor and whoever succeeds him will be elected, not selected.

3. The solution you gave is completely useless in Pakistan, innocent people are dying for 7 years in drone attacks and the government condemns and does nothing substantial. Through Wikileaks we find out that the government in fact has given full permission to America to conduct drone attacks and the government will just shed crocodile tears to fool the public. The assemblies have passed many resolutions already against drone attacks but its clear that resolutions have no value.

4. How can you say the public voted for these people? The total votes cast in 2008 were around 34.5 million and from election commission we found out that 37.2 million out of 80 million votes were FAKE. So these elections and these assemblies are fake and therefore they dont care about the public sentiments.

5. The 'democratic' solution you gave may be feasible in truly democratic countries, but Pakistan has sham democracy so we have no choice but to come on the roads to solve our problems.

6. PTI has always demonstrated peacefully, never harmed any public or government properties and this is a democratic way of protest. Only dictatorial mindset will have a problem with this type of protest.

7. The people killed in bomb blasts are again the failure of government and the terrorism and extremism is the product of drone attacks and military operations. If you had listened to Imran Khan and did not start military operations and did not allow drone attacks, we would not have to face this terrorism. How can a protest stop terrorism or target killing? Its just nonsense. But blocking NATO supplies can surely stop drone attacks.

8. 34000 people have been killed in drone attacks, more than 75 percent of them are innocent and all of them are not proven guilty. What do you think the families of those innocent people will do? Will they praise the government and America? Or will they fight and get revenge for this injustice?

All the things you said in this post are based on spite and animosity against Imran Khan and your solutions are naive at the least. We cant wait 2 years for elections to stop drone attacks, we have to do something now. You can continue to criticize Imran Khan and blame him for every problem in the country, but the fact is that he is the only politician who is fighting for our rights against this fake 'elected' government and is sincere in solving our problems.

 

[molson4u]

Arsalan4u brother, you can't talk about something which you have not seen. What i mean is based on you born and raised in Pakistan. A frog sitting in well thinks that the sky is as big as the opening of the well until he comes out and see's that sky is huge, more then he can see. You are just emotional and sentimental kid who don't know what democracy mean and how it works in civilized societies. I have nothing against Mr. Khan and in fact i meet him few months back when he was in Toronto and paid $50 to listen to his speech. I have to admit he is clueless and emitional like you are but political maturity comes with being in politic for a long time and by learning from other people who are using it.

By the way I was not talking about democracy theme in Halka Number NA71 but democratic process in Canada USA UK which are considered to be mature democracies. Want to learn something, spend 40 minutes and watch how leader talk and act:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/leaders-debate/#

 

[arslan4u]

Arsalan4u brother, you can't talk about something which you have not seen. What i mean is based on you born and raised in Pakistan. A frog sitting in well thinks that the sky is as big as the opening of the well until he comes out and see's that sky is huge, more then he can see. You are just emotional and sentimental kid who don't know what democracy mean and how it works in civilized societies. I have nothing against Mr. Khan and in fact i meet him few months back when he was in Toronto and paid $50 to listen to his speech. I have to admit he is clueless and emitional like you are but political maturity comes with being in politic for a long time and by learning from other people who are using it.

By the way I was not talking about democracy theme in Halka Number NA71 but democratic process in Canada USA UK which are considered to be mature democracies. Want to learn something, spend 40 minutes and watch how leader talk and act:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/leaders-debate/#

I think Imran Khan knows quite well what democracy means and how it works in countries like USA and UK. Whatever i wrote is based on the ground realities of Pakistan not emotions or sentiments and whatever you wrote is a failed strategy as visible from the worthlessness of Pakistani Parliament's resolutions. You may be right in your own country but I am living in Pakistan and know whats happening here.

 

[molson4u]

Arsalan4u...brother there are always 2 ways of doing things: a right way and a wrong way and street justice is a wrong way. I know Imran Khan has spent time in the west but he is not following it to in letter and spirit. He is a great guy and i admire him but he is also crowded by failed politicians with their backward thinking or new people without experience. As a reader of Pakistan print media and electronic media, I know chnage will be slow , gradual and will take decades.

You go 60 years back, these so called mature democracies had the same problems, women were not allowed to vote, people will vote based on religious sect, slaves were not allowed to vote etc. but with time things changed. It was just a matter of people changing thier thinking and realizing that voting correctly with concious is the only true way to bring change. Inshallah, the time will come. I will believe in PTI when there will be election and Imran will resign from this chairmanship and let a new leader from low ranks be made the leader of PTI. Till then it's all sham political party.

Anyone can become a leader in Pakistan who slams USA and expolites people against the elected Government. Nothing new that Khan sahab is doing. However, i have never seen him showing his plan to handle healthcare, education, women issues or coming up with solid economic plan with numbers to show that he can handle the job of a PM. Just talking about Aafia, raymond Davis, Drone and foregin account show how lost he is. These might be points to exploite people to gain cheap fame but people want Eductaion, healthcare, jobs, future, freedom, justice, welfare and peace and Khan sahab has no idea what those things are... he just know cricket and hospital for his mom.

As i admire him, went to see him when i was a younge and meet him many times in USA and Canada, I think its time for him to have people of vision around him if he want to be a true leader of the nation.

 

[arslan4u]

Arsalan4u...brother there are always 2 ways of doing things: a right way and a wrong way and street justice is a wrong way. I know Imran Khan has spent time in the west but he is not following it to in letter and spirit. He is a great guy and i admire him but he is also crowded by fails politicians and their backward thinking. As a reader of Pakistan print media and electronic media, I know chnage will be slow , gradual and will take decades.

You go 60 years back, these so called mature democracies had the same problems, women were not allowed to vote, people will vote based on religious sect, slaves were not allowed to vote etc. but with time things changed. It was just a matter of people changing thier thinking and realizing that voting correctly with concious is the only true way to bring change. Inshallah, the time will come. I will believe in PTI when there will be election and Imran resign from this chairmanship and let a new leader from low ranks will be made the leader of PTI. Till then it's all sham political party.

Anyone can become a leader in Pakistan who slams USA and expolites people against the elected Government. Nothing new that Khan sahab is doing. However, i have never seen him showing his plan to handle healthcare, education, women issues or coming up with solid economic plan with numbers to show that he can handle the job of a PM. Just talking about Aafia, raymond Davis, Drone and foregin account show how lost he is. These might be points to exploite people to gain cheap fame but people want Eductaion, healthcare, jobs, future, freedom, justice, welfare and peace and Khan sahab has no idea what those things are... he just know cricket and hospital for his mom.

As i admire him, went to see him when i was a younge and meet him many times in USA and Canada, I think its time for him to have people of vision around him if he want to be a true leader of the nation.

As i said, you are just posting all this because of animosity for Imran Khan. If you were neutral, you would have seen that he has no need to do anything for popularity or personal interests. Shaukat Khanum, Namal University or Imran Khan foundation were not made for popularity but for the people of Pakistan and they show the vision of Imran Khan. He has given enough solutions to the problems in Pakistan but it seems you have never heard him in talk shows or chose to ignore whatever he said.

"he just know cricket and hospital for his mom."
This is a very stupid thing to say and again shows you dont really admire Imran Khan but are against his every action. Which person spends all his time and effort to make a hospital for a dead mother? You are speaking the tongue of his opponents so i am forced to question your neutrality.

As for street justice, dharna isnt street justice where we are playing judge, jury and executioner against someone, thats what Americans are doing with drone attacks. We are doing this to safeguard our human rights and to stop ILLEGAL drone attacks on our fellow citizens by pressurizing Americans. There is nothing wrong with this as it is peaceful like all other protests of PTI. You may consider it wrong but you dont have anything to prove your point, show me any law which says you cannot come on the streets to protest.

Change will not be gradual now, it will be quick. Once the fake 'elected' government is gone and replaced by credible, honest and sincere people, the change will be overwhelming.

 

[molson4u]

Araslan4u@ I am not blind like you and person worshipper like yourself kiddo. If you read what i wrote, I admire his work as social worker. Running a cricket match and running a country are very different. He has yet to give his detailed policy on issues i have raised. Talking about drone, america are cheap trick to get people around yourself. what I wrote is not to discuss Imran but to discuss true democracy. yes in a true democracy you have right to protest but right belongs to people who participated in the democratic process(elections) which your beloved personality didn't. Only time he got elected was when Mushi wanted him to be in parliment and since is last victory, he has never been elected to even a cricket board.

I am not going to talk about Imran but democracy, if you want to further discuss anything, it has to be on the issue of democracy not Imran. I will support any political party that has democratic values within and will elect new leadership everytime they fail to elect a majority mandate from the public. No party in Pakistan comes to this level so i am independant not blind perosnality worshipper.

 

[Baba jee]

Welcome back Molson4u (welcome)
Don't forget to vote NDP (Brian Masse or Joe Comratin)

 

[arslan4u]

Araslan4u@ I am not blind like you and person worshipper like yourself kiddo. If you read what i wrote, I admire his work as social worker. Running a cricket match and running a country are very different. He has yet to give his detailed policy on issues i have raised. Talking about drone, america are cheap trick to get people around yourself. what I wrote is not to discuss Imran but to discuss true democracy. yes in a true democracy you have right to protest but right belongs to people who participated in the democratic process(elections) which your beloved personality didn't. Only time he got elected was when Mushi wanted him to be in parliment and since is last victory, he has never been elected to even a cricket board.

I am not going to talk about Imran but democracy, if you want to further discuss anything, it has to be on the issue of democracy not Imran. I will support any political party that has democratic values within and will elect new leadership everytime they fail to elect a majority mandate from the public. No party in Pakistan comes to this level so i am independant not blind perosnality worshipper.

I see how much you admire his social work when you say he made a hospital for his mom. So Namal University and Imran Khan Foundation must be for his children, wife and father?
All your comments are the same old and beaten ones that have been replied a thousand times and its you who needs a change: a change in your old and biased thinking.
Imran Khan made an independent and world class institution free of corruption and is flawlessly running it since 16 years. As he said in the recent program, a country is made from institutions, if he can make an institution and knows how to run it, surely he can run the country.
Please stop this hypocrisy now, tell us who you support and we will know the source of your allegations and so-called criticism. This is all rubbish and decades old, we all have heard the answers to such criticism.

 

[molson4u]

I don't support anyone and hate close minded uneducated people. One day Inshallah Pakistan will be a free democratic country... free of bhutto's , sherif's, imrans, Musharaf's, altaf, Mulana's and Chaudhari's.

new people will emerge that no one know about at this time.

 

[molson4u]

Baba jee, long time no see, hope u and your family are fine.

 

[arslan4u]

I don't support anyone and hate close minded uneducated people. One day Inshallah Pakistan will be a free democratic country... free of bhutto's , sherif's, imrans, Musharaf's, altaf, Mulana's and Chaudhari's.

new people will emerge that no one know about at this time.

I have concluded this from your posts:
- You may or may not support any party but one thing is for sure that you are NOT neutral, you are fully biased against Imran Khan and are seen to be targeting him constantly in your previous posts. The rest of the politicians seem to be of no concern to you and Imran Khan is the only enemy of democracy and Pakistan with his 'undemocratic' behavior.
- You think you are the only wise person and elder to all other members here, so you call them kiddo and say they have childish thoughts.
- Your posts regarding Dr Afia show you stand with American oppressors who abducted her and sentenced her to 85 years in prison on false charges and planted evidence.
- In one post you are defending Faisal Raza Abidi and consider him to be a truthful person. (clap)
- You are also seen to praise Musharraf's era and even though you love to preach democracy, you support a dictator who imposed emergency in 2007 and denied basic human rights of citizens.

Its a safe assumption that you belong to APML and support a dictator, contradicting your rants about true democracy.

 

[molson4u]

assumption is a mother all f uckups and assuming is making ass of you and me. Wrong answer kiddo. use google translator and read my article in URDU...it might make sense to you.

 

[arslan4u]

assumption is a mother all f uckups and assuming is making ass of you and me. Wrong answer kiddo. use google translator and read my article in URDU...it might make sense to you.

Like I said, you may or may not support any party but your posts show you have a strong bias against Imran Khan. So if you dont admit you belong to APML, i will say you belong to MI (Mukhalifeen-e-Imran), the party whose sole purpose is to criticize Imran Khan.
Btw your assuming i dont understand your English, again you are considering yourself superior and you think I cant understand what you wrote. All my above conclusions are based on your posts and you should own up to what you say.

 

[molson4u]

I hate all those who expolite people and can't deliver true democracy. Unfortunately, you leader also falls in this category and I have sympathy with you.

 

[Veila Mast]

@Molson:

I am really impressed by your suggestions and I wish you were there in late 70's so that you may ENLIGHTEN Imam Khumani by your revolutionary ideas.

Today you are panicking over burning roads but we have seen blood shed during that time!

Am I right Sir?

 

[molson4u]

@veila Mast, brother their is a hugh difference in democracy and islamic revolution. There are to different animals and can't be compared. The topic here is democracy not islamic revolution which by the way can never happen is Pakistan as we have all 72 sects living in the country. In iran 95% people were from the same faith so it worked there...A true democracy is the only way for Pakistan to move forward so it can become a proprous country.

 

[arslan4u]

I hate all those who expolite people and can't deliver true democracy. Unfortunately, you leader also falls in this category and I have sympathy with you.

Ok please share your thoughts about Musharraf.
- Do you hate him for imposing emergency which he himself admits was extra-constitutional, do you think he should be trialed under Article 6 for his treason?
- Do you hate him for the black law NRO which allowed Zardari to get out of jail free and eventually become President?

As for Imran Khan not delivering true democracy, only fools expect him to deliver education, health, justice and democracy without ever having government. When he gets government and still fails to deliver these things, you are welcome to hate him.

 

[Veila Mast]

@veila Mast, brother their is a hugh difference in democracy and islamic revolution. There are to different animals and can't be compared. The topic here is democracy not islamic revolution which by the way can never happen is Pakistan as we have all 72 sects living in the country. In iran 95% people were from the same faith so it worked there...A true democracy is the only way for Pakistan to move forward so it can become a proprous country.

Meri Jaan,

You may shed blood in name of Islam but can't in democracy!!!!!!!!!

Is that what you mean to say?

Then which one is better?

 

[molson4u]

Democratic process is peaceful. In a islamic revolution is are fighting for Allah and in democracy you are fighting for your rights.