Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

Abdul Allah · May 29, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

iceburg said:
^^ I am replying without reading your post. Now I will not read your reply. Jo marzi samajhte raho .... Ye pehle se Muqqaddar tha k Muslims ne Jews se Mushaba hona he tha.

Liked??

May Allah make it a reality

Mughal1 · May 30, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

complete urdu darse quran

http://www.parwez.tv/free-audio.html

Mughal1 · Jun 9, 2012

Mughal1 · Jun 12, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

The following link has complete darse quran in urdu and also very important information about iqbal, jinnah and paksitan etc. Hours of information that is worth knowing for people of pakistan.

http://www.parwez.tv/free-audio.html

Mughal1 · Jun 22, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

http://www.parvez-video.com/islam_lecture.asp

kingkhan1988 · Jun 24, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Quran ko Aisa samajna hai jaise Allah Ke Rasool Muhammad pbuh ne samjha hai apni marzi se to jo matlab nikalo gai to ye nafs parasti hoi.

Mughal1 · Jun 24, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

kingkhan1988 said:
Quran ko Aisa samajna hai jaise Allah Ke Rasool Muhammad pbuh ne samjha hai apni marzi se to jo matlab nikalo gai to ye nafs parasti hoi.

Dear kingkhan, what you stated needs proof and proving and that is the problem. In other words we are not sure what was the understanding of the quran by the prophet and that is why the sectarianism is the result.

This means we need a set criterion whereby we should understand the quran. Any understanding of the quran attributed to the prophet is not necessarily true and we know that because there are ample number of ahadith that are said to be false or weak etc.

So making statements like let us understand the quran like the prophet are meaningless unless we have a worked out criterion that proves that such an understanding of the quran really does exist to begin with.

If such a criterion exists please share it with us and if it does not then first we need to find a criterion before we can make any such statement because it will prove wrong otherwise.

The very criterion that prophet himself used to understand the quran is needed to understand the quran and that criterion is aqal and rules of wisdom. If we have the formula then anyone can solve the problem regardless one is prophet or not. After all the divine books were send for people not just prophets. It is ordinary people God meant to guide so that they bring about his rule and they did every now and again.

If God had told things which only prophets could make sense of and do then divine messages will be useless for ordinary people would they not?

regards and all the best.

Mughal1 · Jul 24, 2012

TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

replicaa · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

Mughal Sahib may Allah show you the right path. Thousands of learned scholars have talked about Ghulam Ahmed Pervez's false ideology but you are still stuck with him.... here is one for you to ponder on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg0RdSurLXI

mrcritic · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

why is this qadniyaat thread even allowed here?

MUmmah1 · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

Admin: You will do good if you please delete this thread, otherwise you are also responsible for spreading these misleading tafaseer and translation of Holy Quran from a self proclaimed socalled Aalim, who is far from the 'ilm' and knowledge of Quranic Arabic and style. ...thanks

Mughal1 · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

replicaa said:
Mughal Sahib may Allah show you the right path. Thousands of learned scholars have talked about Ghulam Ahmed Pervez's false ideology but you are still stuck with him.... here is one for you to ponder on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg0RdSurLXI

Dear replicaa, I know what islam is and what it is not and that is not just due to people but by rules that work and the information that proves valid. You too will be better off listening to what parwez sb has to say and then compare who makes better sense. You may be fan of ghamdi sb but even ghamdi sb is not yet as great scholar of islam as allaama parwez was in his time. We are fortunate that we can know what he had to say.

The video of ghamdi sb you have posted I have answered that in my posts already. The understanding about arabic by alaama parwez went much beyond ghamdi sb that is why he failed to understand how and why parwez sb explained the quran the way he did. I am hopeful all the same that all will have to come to realise points explained by parwez sb. Dogmatic faith is useless when it comes to facing realities of life and that is what the quran condemns all over. After all what is following one's own desires and hawae nafs? It is make beliefs. Islam is not a religion but a deen. The day ghamdi sb and others read the quran in context of a book that sets mankind a goal, for which it puts before people a program or manifesto in order to bring about a good human community and organise it on basis of the quran as its constitution things will become clear. Things are not as simple as you think, people with vested interests always spread lies about those who threaten their vested interest and the ignorant just jump on the band wagon. The confused who do not know where they themselves stand are silly to attack others about whom they know little or nothing at all.

The question for you to think about is, is stance of ghamdi sb in the video you posted correct? Did ghamdi sb know at the time of making this video the relationship between origin of a language, its grammatical rules and derived meanings that we find in dictionaries to date? That is speciality of allaama parwez sb.

Understanding of the quran depends on lots of things not just language. The thousand of mullahs you are talking about what do they know about things the quran is talking about? This is why what they make of the quran is not here not there because most such people are baby minds who have not grown up and they do not let anyone else grow up to understand the quran better. Since most of the ummah is illiterate and uneducated these people have monopoly and that will remain in tact till any of us breaks out of it but then that needs courage which many of us do not have.

On the other hand had this ummah been literate and educated, islam would have been the system in the world whereby humanity lived. How many of our these mullahs been able to take the message of islam to the open forums in the world? Tat should drive home reality of our mullahs. They are only good for condemn everyone who does what he thinks is right. Therefore my advice for you will be to get informed by listening to people and learn wisdom to be able to see what is right and why and what wrong and why?

The idea is to listen to people and learn from them what they prove to be right and ignore the rest. You do exactly the same with ghamdi sb as well as parwez sb. Ghamdi sb has good grasp on concepts of laws. That is very much obvious from his explanations. Parwez sb had much better grasp of things than all the other scholar that I know of. Ghamdi sb is beginning to grasp some of the ideas but he has yet to catch up. Not only that but go beyond where parwez sb left things.

In our recent history a few top ideas were pushed forth by sir syed, farahi and iqbal and parwez puts them across very nicely. After him I see ghamdi sb explaining things much better than other ulema. As for mullahs they are carrying on filling their fatwas baskets. Though they too are doing certain things that I do appreciate eg teaching kids naazra quran and also arabic language in madrassas. I hope they spend their energy on doing better tyings tan cursing all those who disagree with their version and vision of islam. It is that vision and version that is flying in our faces wherever we go. They have earned us free enemies through the world. Not only by dishing out wrong message in the name of islam to muslims but to nonmuslims as well.

May Allah bless us all with proper understanding of his message and enable us to spread his message properly so that humanity could live in peace and prosper.

regards and all the best.

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...-amp-tribalism&p=657523&viewfull=1#post657523
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ya-Maqbool-Jan&p=711922&viewfull=1#post711922
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?105874-Beneficiaries-of-Secularism
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...-of-ghulam-ahmed-parwez-to-islam-and-muslims&

replicaa · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

Mughal Bhai,
You preferred not to bother what i had said but you took on Ghamidi. What i said was that there are thousands of scholars who had said more or less what Ghamidi said. if you dont like Ghamidi then please listen to Dr. Israr Ahmed or Dr. Tahirul Qadri or Mufti Rafi Usmani or Mufti Taqi or Ml Tariq Jamil or Maulana Ishaq or Mufti Akmal Qadri or Dr. Khalid or Syed Modudi or Amin Ahsan Islahi and there are many many more who totally discard Ghulam Parvez's ideology. Now it is your choice to deny them all and keep listening to Ghulam Pervez but you need to think why there is not a single learned scholar in the entire ummah after Ghulam Pervez who endorsed him? why ?

maliksum · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

MUmmah1 said:
Admin: You will do good if you please delete this thread, otherwise you are also responsible for spreading these misleading tafaseer and translation of Holy Quran from a self proclaimed socalled Aalim, who is far from the 'ilm' and knowledge of Quranic Arabic and style. ...thanks

I strongly support the deletion of this thread, please Admin / Mod don't let this site become a vehicle for deviant preaching as other posters have said there is an almost unanimous opinion of Muslim scholars regarding this matter.

realityhurts · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

Brothers ! I have requested "Admin" some thousand times not to allow threads related

to "Ghullam Pervaiz " or "Kaku Shah" aka "Ghamdi" , but no response and we still

have it , specially from Mughal1 & AG uddeen ......

This is unacceptable , this is holly month of remadan...

maliksum said:
I strongly support the deletion of this thread, please Admin / Mod don't let this site become a vehicle for deviant preaching as other posters have said there is an almost unanimous opinion of Muslim scholars regarding this matter.

MUmmah1 said:
Admin: You will do good if you please delete this thread, otherwise you are also responsible for spreading these misleading tafaseer and translation of Holy Quran from a self proclaimed socalled Aalim, who is far from the 'ilm' and knowledge of Quranic Arabic and style. ...thanks

mrcritic said:
why is this qadniyaat thread even allowed here?

replicaa said:
Mughal Sahib may Allah show you the right path. Thousands of learned scholars have talked about Ghulam Ahmed Pervez's false ideology but you are still stuck with him.... here is one for you to ponder on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg0RdSurLXI

Mughal1 · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

replicaa said:
Mughal Bhai,
You preferred not to bother what i had said but you took on Ghamidi. What i said was that there are thousands of scholars who had said more or less what Ghamidi said. if you dont like Ghamidi then please listen to Dr. Israr Ahmed or Dr. Tahirul Qadri or Mufti Rafi Usmani or Mufti Taqi or Ml Tariq Jamil or Maulana Ishaq or Mufti Akmal Qadri or Dr. Khalid or Syed Modudi or Amin Ahsan Islahi and there are many many more who totally discard Ghulam Parvez's ideology. Now it is your choice to deny them all and keep listening to Ghulam Pervez but you need to think why there is not a single learned scholar in the entire ummah after Ghulam Pervez who endorsed him? why ?

Dear replicaa, please know that I have nothing against any muslim let alone any alim, my point is simply this, do not judge the quran by people but by rules. People are prone to mistakes whereas rules are not. The reason is each and every rule has been tested by all people with wisdom otherwise they could not have come up with those rules and they would not have used them and made them part of set up of whole human kind. I have made this very much obvious in my posts for sake of helping others educate themselves.

Like maths there are rules in language as well and that is because maths have developed from the ordinary language. When we can know things by rules there is no need for having any other source of confirmation but if there is, it only helps further.

Just because nobody backs ideas raised by parwez sb does not necessarily mean what he understood from the quran is automatically wrong. What we need to do is educate ourselves and check it out and then prove using the rules that what one party says is right and what the other party says is wrong. The people you are putting forth have no clue as to what makes truth true and what makes falsehood false. This is obvious from whatever they have produced themselves ie they all are promoter of make beliefs because they have nothing to do with proof and proving of their claims. If they had any clue they would not have sat idle spreading their make beliefs through indoctrination of kids and illiterate adults with baby minds.

For example, if you ask them to define proof and state how a claim can be proven true, they have no idea. In fact they have no idea what the following words means eg testimony, statement, witness, evidence, proof etc. There is a saying proof of the pudding is in the eating but what does this saying mean in relation to proof and proving?

The problem with creeds is that they are make beliefs or dogmas and that is not good for anything other than causing sectarianism and disintegration of human community, could you explain why that is the case? Mark my words that so long as these people promote and stand behind these beliefs they can never bring about unity even of muslim ummah itself let alone the whole human race. The point is very simple, how can I prove you wrong when you do not believe in proof and proving? If I cannot prove you wrong and you cannot prove me wrong then we are stuck in an unworkable situation and that cannot be right if islam is truly from God. It is because the quran states that if it contained discrepancies then it could not be from Allah 4/82. Here the quran is very clearly talking about proof and proving yet these molvies sahibaan want me to ignore that and follow their make beliefs instead. The quran demands proof of the nonmuslims for their beliefs and deeds. The nonmuislims also demand proof from God and that too is stated again and again in the quran even though they have no clue as what they are asking for. It is because the proofs are given in te quran but being ignorant as regard proof and proving they keep asking for a kind of proof that is not proof in actual fact. What kind of people will continue asking for proof when they have already been given the proofs? The clueless people. Moreover you will agree that quran keeps on arguing its case in each and every surah so one has to ask what is this argument for? Can that make sense if deen was just matter of accepting make beliefs needing no proofs? All these clues in the quran tell us how clever our molvies are. Their use of the Quran is confined to khatam drood and getting their dead forgiven for their sins.

You are here trying to argue a case with me yet you are not realising that you are asking me for proof and proving without realising that you have to do exactly the same as you demand of me. If you do not need any proof and proving for your beliefs or claims why does anyone else? Moreover if that is the case then what will be the purpose of the quran? It is because if you leave proof and proving out of the way then what is all this argument all around the world over religion for? In that case you are right your way and I am right my way and there is no sense in telling anyone come join me because you are going the wrong way because neither of us knows what the right way is or should be. It is because knowing the right way means having proof and being able to prove it.

We have lots of sectarian debates on this forum yet no one goes for proof and proving because they have no clue how to do that. This lack of interest in proof and proving has ruined this ummah because it has become a fractured personality cults. Few mullahs running one way without much clue and a few another way and shooting fatwas all around them as if they are out on a hunting trip in a jungle.

Parwez sb is different, he explains to us why we should follow the quran as per evidence. So long as we follow claims with evidences that work we are ok otherwise it matter not what we believe or not because we have no clue as to what that means anyway.

Each word in the quran has many different meanings, so how do you pick out the right one? These people will tell you that the prophet has explained the quran for us so that should not be difficult. However we both know how many different sects are there among us claiming to know islam as per prophetic teachings. Is it then a workable rule to take it seriously? Of course not because even if the prophet has explained the quran fully we will still need rules. Why? Because in that case we will end up fighting over explanations of the prophet because he would also be using the same words like the quran which will have so many different meanings. This will therefore lead us to an unending chain of explanations of explanations. This is why rules are absolutely important because without rules no explanation could make any real sense.

People have been coming up with rules about everything as and when the need arose eg ahadith collectors invented some ideas to show what they reported is authentic. The hadith critics brought aboput nsome rules to prove some so called ahadith may not be true or may not have been interpreted properly. Had they just told us stories attributed to the prophet they may not have been taken seriously. However the rules that make them look authentic are just invented ideas by people who reached that level of thinking. This shows how important the rules are. If hadith collection rules are more important than the ahadith themselves then obviously the rules that make the quran look sensible and authentic are even more important provided we can prove they work.

This is where in come sir syed, farahi and iqbal why? because they gave us some fundamental basis for understanding the quran. Now comes in parwez, he utilized their rules and produced the works that he has. This is why all mullah aside parwez alone is right if his work is according to the rules. Likewise where molvie are right as per rules w can leave parwez alone. Even though sir syed, farahi, iqbal gave us foundations for understanding the quran that does not means what they themselves understood of the quran is right unless they followed their rules just like muhaddiseen and naaqideen. People who invented rules for maths does not necessarily mean they solved all their problems correctly according to their rules. We ourselves do lots mathematical questions wrong despite knowing the formula. All this telkls us that whoever has doe things according to rules is right and whoever has made any mistake should be left alone but only regarding the solution where he made mistake. The rest is all ok. We cannot condemn the whole life time work of any person just because he did not understand some of the things or made mistakes here and there.

Once a child does his sum right according to rules no matter how many adults who are ignorant of rule tell us that child is wrong we will only accept their claim if we are ignorant ourselves. This is recipe for personality cults and islam is totally taken over by such people and the situation will not change unless people like me find courage to stand up and be counted come what may.

So please learn rules for understanding the quran and you will then be able to see where parwez or molvies have gone wrong and why. In short if you do not have rules or do not know them then you are not in a position to judge any related information in form of ideas or things or people.

I hope this helps clarifies the situation a little.

God bless with all the best.

realityhurts · Jul 24, 2012

Re: TAFSEERE QURAN By Allaama Ghulam Ahmed Parwez

Mughal1 · Aug 7, 2012

Re: Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads colloections

Mixed-thread-for-educational-purposes
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?128293-Mixed-thread-for-educational-purposes

inqalaab kab aata hai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwvgDxCjPZ8&feature=related

Mughal1 · Aug 13, 2012

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Islam is knowledge based deen and knowledge cannot be obtained unless we understand the importance of language ie how it evolved in sense natural sounds that became meaningful words for communication. How prototype language developed from concrete meanings for words to conceptualised meanings for words and how communication became contextualised as time went on and people learned more and more ways to express ideas clearer and clearer.

Here is how languages came about and developed and continues to develop with time.

Dr Jeff Elman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1pbnWcabMY

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/26_meaning.html

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/26_roots.html

My point concerning language is that arabic language is unique among languages today that are in normal use since time long past. Its sister languages have become obsolete. Even hebrew language that came to being along with arabic and aramaic are no longer known other than by experts and hebrew is being reconstructed and the old testament has been obtained from the translations of the original. This is very much obvious if people look into copies of the bible like king james version in english. Therein we can find foot notes telling us a) about lost text in the bible and b) lost meanings of the words. However in copies of later versions of the biblic text has been repaired.

Regardless the study of hebrew language due to being very closely related to arabic gives us muslims insight into development of arabic as well as to how it is supposed to work.

After study one should realise why revelation of the quran was in arabic and not in any other language. It is because root system links us to the past or origin of the language and modifications help us keep the language alive and useful for the future.

The special feature of root based languages is that concrete meanings attached to the roots can be modified through concepts without losing the original sense because modifications can be explained by reasons without the need for changes in the actual text that needs to be explained.

The original meanings given to roots remain unaffected by grammatical changes that modify roots into words for their use in sentences. The roots change into words known as derivatives of roots eg if we take word islam, it is derived from root SEEN, LAAM and MEEM. This root had many derivatives as well as meanings but the real meaning of this root is only one ie the state of rest or peace. All other root meanings are conceptualised meanings ie thye relate sane root through an explanation. This is very important point to remember because this is where scholars of islamn get confused. They fail to distinguish between concrete meanings of roots and their derived root meanings. This is why they think root chnaging its meaning when we derive words from it by way of inflections in order to make a word from root usable in a sentence. However in actual fact root keeps its meaning no matter what and concepts could be modified as the need be. Such points will become clearer as I explain the ideas.

These modifications of roots are necessitated by use of words in a sentences for a set purpose. A word may be used as a noun in a sentence and that has to be either a subject or an object regardless direct or indirect or an adjective. The same happens in case of form ie to indicate singularity or plurality or in case of arabic duality as well. Since sentence must also indicate gender so words must be modified for that reason also eg their masculinity or femininity is to be expressed by the sentence. Likewise there are others reasons for such inflections or modifications. No matter whatever the changes are made in root to form words from it the derived words keep their concrete or reality based root meanings or meanings based on concepts related to roots. Many people become confused and think root changes meanings with such modifications but it does not.

http://www.ancientscripts.com/ws_regions.html
http://www.ancientscripts.com/arabic.html
http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Arabic-1635/root-Stems.htm

The main difference between later languages and the ancient languages in terms of words is that older languages used words for their meanings that came about naturally eg word MUM, AMMA for mother etc. It is still baby language ie babies call their mothers mum mum ie supplier for their food. It seems that babies when made this noise the mothers responded and so over a period of time people began to call their feeders mothers. The word became more and more important with time as human race realised role of mother more and more and that is how came about word ummah=meaning mother or nation.

In later languages words are used as labels rather than as naturally occurring purposeful sounds by humans to name things or their actions etc not due to their meanings but just to give things names for example. It is therefore very important point to realise how in original languages words were based upon concrete meanings fit for the purpose. Older languages have become obsolete save arabic language because most languages had not have the reasons to be preserved to stay alive or that they were over run by later civilisations. The importance of words and their real meanings is not realised unless people see the need for it. Since less and less number of people see the need for knowing about language in detail so the problems arose among people on basis of words because of their lack of knowledge about the purpose of language and how it ought to work.

Even hebrew became obsolete and is being reconstructed through help of sister languages like aramaic and arabic etc. In this way if we look at the quran it is a unique book in ancient language that is still spoken and written and understood the same way as it was at the time of its invention before the revelation of the quran. This makes arabic language a unique language in the world today. All this is due to preservation of the quran otherwise arabic as a language was not any better than hebrew for example. Hebrew became obsolete because earlier divine books no longer survived or those who followed them accepted the quran and so there was no need seen to preserve the language for other reasons. Moreover those jews who did not accept islam it was better for them to let go the book they had and its language because otherwise they could not oppose the quran as Toraat was just like the quran only in hebrew language. This is why the quran tells us that jews knew the quran was from same source as toraat because they were identical books with exactly the same purpose and structure in sense of use of language and the message. The present so called toraat is not that God sent toraat but some of our molvies do not know that so they still take the current first five books of bible as toraat. Although old testament's first fives books are not that toraat it is set of books like hadith books attributed to moses and so there is still a lot of similar information in it as there was in the original toraat. The same is true in case of ZABOOR and INJEEL or any other scriptures given to other messenger eg scriptures given to ibraheem or for that matter to noah.

The other reason the original divine scripture do not exist today is because there were always conspiracies against divine messages and messengers so once followers gave up following the true message scribes could get rid of it because there were not many who wrote copies of those scriptures. Rulers and priests have been together in converting deen in to religion in order to separate state and religious affairs. So separation between state affairs and affairs relating God is not new rather all rebellious people always fought against the divine message as much as they could. Kings ruled over people in the name of country and priests ruled over people in the name of God. That is how we ended up with ideologies and rules and regulations for states and ideologies, rules and regulations for religions. More about this later.

Let us now see what is special about arabic language that all muslims and nonmuslims must know. The special thing about arabic is how its roots have been attached various meanings from which are created words for the language to be used in the sentences. There are four different reasons whereby words are given meanings. a) concrete root meanings that arose through natural sounds which were used for naming things b) derived root meanings that lead back to concrete meanings by way of reason. c) meanings given to words for grammatical reasons so that they fit the sentences and d) meanings given to words that are used as labels for names of things or their actions without any real sense ie it is just like we name our children without knowing the meanings of the words today but this was not the case in times long ago. poeple used to call their children with names which meant something in some sense eg fox or hawk or stone etc.

Let us take root SEEN, LAAM and MEEM. This three letter combination is called root or MAADA. In this case the root has various meanings eg peace, safety, security, tranquillity, rest, completeness, submission, commitment, acceptance, ladder, staircase, give up, give in, surrender, receive, free from obstacle or problem or trouble, hand over, resign and the list of meanings keeps going on.

The question is, when a word has so many meanings does it then not become difficult to understand the message? My answer is that it does not because whatever we say, we say it in a context so people who send and receive messages they can make sense of them due to presence of a context and a purpose in the message. It is because people ignore the purpose and the context of the message that they make a mess of the quranic message when they translate it. The quran cannot be translated on word for word basis because we may not be sure of the purpose and context of the message at a time or that we may not be able to find words for words that could replace each other 100%. This is why the religions that have lost original scriptures in original languages and try to reconstruct them through translations cannot do so. Therefore the quran has the huge advantage over other scriptures that are no longer in original languages or in original text and word structures. This is why no matter how hard jews try to reconstruct hebrew bible it is never going to be like original unless they seek help from the quran but then if they do that why not just follow the quran instead?

Let me now draw attention to word roots and their meanings. Roots in actual fact do not have different meanings but it appears that they do. Why? Because original meaning is driven home each time when we apply the so called other meanings through explanations. Let me explain this by means of an example. ROOT SLM has various meanings as explained under root SEEN, LAAM and MEEM. The very basic purpose behind any root meaning is to get things in that state of being or take action to make something to be in that state of being. The basic meaning of root slm is state of rest ie no disturbance. The root combination is used for different purposes in a sentence ie we derive various words from it in order to use them in a grammatical sentence. This means we use words as names and if they are names then they are either subjects in a sentence or they are direct or indirect objects. Other variations occur because we want to show various forms eg singular, plural and in case of arabic duality as well. The other reason for change is to show gender difference eg masculinity or femininity. Then there is variation to show tenses eg simple, participle and past participle ie to show past, present or future as well as how complete the being is or the action is. All these variations to root are called inflections or derivatives of root or its variations. Other than that as explained the basic meanings of roots do not change due to derivatives ie slm root sticks to its meaning peace or rest no matter whatever the derivatives.

For example, take the derivative salam=ladder, the question is, what does word ladder mean? It means means to an end which is peace or rest because once ladder is put in place to do something and after you have completed the set out task you will be at rest nothing more to do in this regard so you are in peace. ASLAM, submit= once the person has submitted the rest state is achieved and so the task set out is complete. So one can see how no matter what the meanings we give to seen, laam and meem root the end result is always peace and rest. It is because the things is at rest ie in state of rest or action is taken by some one or something to get it in state of rest or it is gotten into state of action because it was already at rest. So one can see how object is or is made to be in relation to root sml. This is why those who do not understand how arabic language actually works get confused about understanding the quran. This is main reason some people argue word islam means peace and others say it means submission. neither realise that end result of both the meanings is same ie peace and rest ie no disturbance or trouble. Whatever the meanings it has something to do with peace/rest ie either it brings the thing back into state of rest or that it force it out of state of rest. It all depends which way the meaning should be taken but that becomes clear from the sentence in which the word is used eg disturb the peace or create the peace. Word peace keeps its sense no matter what the sentence. Likewise in arabic language a root keeps its meaning no matter what the senstence is conveying.

It should also be realised that unless one understand this idea very clearly one is unlikely to understand why the quranic text can be given different meanings and such person should never translate the quran and even if any does his translation is not likely to be correct. Most objections are why muslims keep changing translations of the quran? The answer is simple that even though God is perfect and so is his message but understanding of humans is neither perfect nor can it ever be. Humans are creatures created to be able to learn so if they were born already knowing everything, why would they need divine guidance? Moreover if they were born totally ignorant and not capable of learning then why would they need guidance when they could not benefit from that? This is why the quran is the way it is and people are the way they are and through step by step interaction things improve from human standpoint ie knowledge of people about things changes with time and effort and that is why you yourself did not see things when you grew up as you did when you were a baby. You kept changing your ideas about things because new information about things kept forcing you to change your opinion about things. This also knocks out the objection that if the quran is perfect word of God why it needs people to explain it. It is because God is already knowing things so he makes statements based upon his knowledge therefore they are as they should be ie absolutely true but people have yet to learn things about which he is talking to them so as they learn things they keep on changing their opinions about word of God till they know better or find the God intended meanings of words. All this is natural and those who discourage study of the quran or start fighting over differences of opinion lack education. It is because they do not realise the purpose of the quran. Its purpose is to educate people through their own individual efforts by way of their interaction with it like children interact with their parents and society and rest of things in their own environment in order to learn things step by step just like interaction between parents and children. Parents tell kids something and when kids understand that much then they are told next things and then the next. The quran being the last message of God for humanity it contain all that people will ever need for their guidance. These are very fundamental points that people ignore when they read the quran but if they ignore these points then they are unlikely to know what the quran is all about.

The real advantage of the root system is ability of the text based on this system to be understood correctly at all times without the need for change in the actual text with time. What does this mean? It means the quranic text can never be proven wrong. It is because the text based on root has the ability to change the meanings to give rise to different concepts to readers according to their individual ability of understanding things.

Why the quran needed to be like that? It is because the quran needed to be understood at the time it was revealed as well as till the end of the time so all the changes that ought to occur during this period of time and due growth of people from childhood to adulthood. The quran is fixed in its text and concepts because it is word of God but people who read the quran are not Gods and they are born knowing nothing and they keep on learning and so their understanding of things changes with time and growth of their life experience and thereby knowledge so this idea takes care of all such variable factors. Showing clearly the uniqueness of arabic and quran combination as well as how divine revelation and human reason go hand in hand.

Unless people learn to use the quran this way the quran will prove useless for them no matter what. I will keep on explaining concepts individually till I bring them all together to show how they work together without any problem.

Coming to grammar, it is a very complex issue and has various aspects eg we can have sign language, spoken language or written language. It has symbols representing sounds or signs which we give name letters. Each language has its own set of alphabet. These letters are brought together to represent sounds or signs we take for words.

We use phrases, clauses and sentences to represent spoken words.

grammar therefore is a field of knowledge which tries to make sense of how people make sounds or signs and use language and what do they mean by them. Therefore we categorise these for various reasons eg we group words in to nouns, adjectives, verbs, adverbs, conjunctions, determiners, prepositions etc. This tells us about functions of words in our speech.

The other thing is we break down parts of speech into phrases, clauses, sentences and paragraphs etc. This helps us define parts of speech for various reasons eg to determine meanings for words in state of action and in state of inaction. All actions are time bound hence the need for definitions because some actions complete, other do not and yet others keep going etc etc.

All this when it is reduced to writing, we come up with loads of punctuation marks to indicate how words were used in speech in order to convey the moods for example or pauses and stoppages etc.

Going back to grouping of words, it becomes a very complex thing as we open up each of the elements in the group eg take nouns for example, there are various reason why we group them in to subgroups eg we group words used as nouns for ideas or for actual things so we call them abstract nouns and concrete nouns. This helps us to know whether we are talking about solid objects or mere concepts. For example, word chemistry is categorised as an abstract noun and word used for labelling an object eg word chair is categorised as a concrete noun. This tells us one noun is merely a label for an idea because we cannot touch chemistry because chemistry is not an object. On the other hand word chair is a concrete noun because we have an object and we want to label it by a word.

Likewise we name things for lots of different reasons so we end up with lots of different kinds of nouns or categories of nouns.eg pronouns, common nouns, collective nouns, proper nouns, genitive nouns, title nouns, numeral nouns, compound nouns, simple nouns and I can go on and on.

We categorise nouns origin wise, complexity wise, tangibility wise, gender wise, number wise, countability wise, usage wise etc etc.

Same when we come to breaking down of sentences in to groups. We categorise verbs on basis of whether these words are used in sentences or are they on their own. On their own they are in there indefinite form or infinite form. However when they are used in sentences then they are broken down in to four basic forms eg simple form, continuous form, perfect form and perfect continuous form. In various grammar books these categories are named differently but they mean the same thing.

These four categories are further divided in to groups on basis of time eg past, present and future. So we end up saying past simple, present simple and future simple eg I went, I go, I will go sort of thing.

Coming to sentence constructions, we have grouping based upon nature of sentences ie polarity wise sentences are either negative or positive, structure wise they are responsive, interjective or informative. combination wise they are simple, compound, complex and compound complex. Mood wise they are imperative, interrogative, declarative and subjunctive and so on.

A sentence could have various constructions eg

1)subject+predicate
2)subject+predicate+object
3)subject +predicate+adverbial
4)subject+predicate+object+adverbial
5)subject+verb+indirect object+object
6)subject+verb+object+indirect object
7)subject+verb+predicate
8)subject+verb+object+predicate

and so on.

Each language has its own construction and structuring of sentences but the basic ideas remains the same.

The complexities of grammar very clearly show that it is not the grammatical rules that decide the meanings of the words but that we are simply trying to decode them in to grammatical rules the way they are spoken or used and that is when we find that not all uses of a language fit a grammatical category so we have exceptions to rules of grammar.

This is like we are walking along and we come across a space ship in a field and then we try and investigate what it is, where it has come from and how it might work etc etc. It is same problem as why we are here if you like. When we were born we saw people talking and we just wanted to make things a bit understandable so lots of our works are only and only for that reason and cannot be taken 100% decided. We are simply trying to come up with ideas and see which one can take us further than we already are. This is how language experts decode ancient languages meaning wise and we see that they make sense so we accept their explanations as proofs.

So I would not discourage anyone from trying whatever comes to one's mind instead I would encourage it because one of us may be able to help us further our understanding of things from where we stand.

So please encourage each other and we will all be fine. Remember rome was not built in a day so we should keep up the good work for better understanding of things.

Mughal1 · Aug 14, 2012

Re: Mixed thread for educational purposes

I think analysis about islam and quran cannot be as effective as it could be unless it is clarified on basis of some solid foundation. Muslim community as a whole is in a terrible confusion regarding what islam is really based upon.

All muslims think is that islam is based upon quran and hadith and that is it. This is the cause of confusion. The reason is they discount the individual and his brain or the active agent. So long as people do not take human ability to reason as basis for thought process, confusion will remain.

Let me try and explain the fundamental basis for any argument in relation to brain and information. Brain is nothing without information to process. You cannot argue against that if you do you not only lack education but thinking ability also, in fact your ignorance is worst than animals because having brain and not realising even this much of the reality throws one out of fold of humanity.

The information is useless unless it is processed by a processing agent. Again one cannot argue with that unless one is brain dead.

So this establishes relationship between a human and the information a human comes across to process. Again no argument is possible against this reality.

The brain is all about having information, reasoning it out and then storing it back in to its memory for recalling it when prompted as and when the need be.

The brain learns how to work on any information it gets throughout its life time. The information normally comes to brain through senses and senses get information from within the environment one finds oneself in through interaction with other existing things within the environment.

This builds human confidence in one's own abilities and helps one find out what one can or cannot be or what one can or cannot do.

Only a stupid person would deny life experiences and take on make beliefs that have no basis whatsoever. This is why nothing should be believed that contradicts reasonable realities. Anyone who believes anything against verifiable realities is as good as brainless.

It is important to distinguish between realities and ideas that contradict them and the ideas that are obviously not known realities themselves but they do not contradict the accepted realities either. In short such ideas may be realities but we can neither verify them nor deny them.

To understand this explanation is necessary for proper understanding of islam that depends upon proper understanding of the quran and the hadith which in turn depend upon rules of wisdom or judgement. It shows very clearly that basis for human reasoning is brain and the quran and the realities it talks about need to be understood in the context explained.

The reason is, if we knew everything all by ourselves then we needed no guidance of any sort of anyone including our parents and teachers or trainers and even God. It is because if you already are born fully aware of all things then why would you need anyone to guide you? This is very important point to realise.

The other point is, if we were born ignorant and incapable of learning then again the question is, why would we need any guidance of anyone when we could not make any use of it at all due to being incapable of doing that?

The way the world exists and the way we humans exist, it shows the whole thing works together ie we are placed in an environment to interact within it with whatever we find in there. This much should be clear to anyone who has ever thought about things.

This means there are things for which we need guidance and there are things we can find out for ourselves. However all is put together in such a way that one thing is useless without the other. This is why each thing that exists has a role to play in this world like actors in a movie play different characters. Here God has a role and man has a role and other things have their roles to fulfil in order to make the whole thing work as a one complete unit. In other words things complement each other for a set purpose.

We therefore cannot put each and everything to do in role of God and sit tight ourselves absolved of all responsibilities whatsoever. This is why unless we read the quran and understand various roles properly we will remain confused and dangerous. Stupidity only leads to painful suffering and that is where we are ie in a lot of pain and suffering as a nation. I wonder when we are going to educate ourselves to be proper human beings the quran wants us to be.

This very basic explanation should make clear to us we have our roles to play and the quran and hadith also have their roles and we need to be sensible enough to take advantage of that.

The quran can never be understood without knowing the rules of wisdom and realities of real life in the real world. So people should make effort to try and learn the quran properly so that they could benefit from that learning otherwise stupid people are destined for painful suffering and no one can save them from that not even God himself. It is because God has assigned them a role to play so there is no escape. We cry all we like to God this is not going to help. When a mother potty trains a child if she was not basing it upon discipline then child will never learn how to use toilet. Just thinking crying will save us from trouble is utterly stupid instead we should be learning ways to get out of the troubles we get ourselves in or stay away from them in the first place is the lesson of the quran.

Unless people realise what is proof and what is proving and how it all works, they can argue all they like but can never reach any satisfactory conclusion.

The very idea that my claims are true because I can back them up from the quranic and the hadith texts is seriously flawed because it does not work. Had it been sufficient then we would not have had so many sects in muslim ummah. This means mere names of the quran and hadith are not guaranty of correct quranic interpretation rather something is needed to based the quran and hadith upon that makes sense because it works. So what is that basis?

Anyone who argues to prove a claim yet knows not what proof and proving is or how a claim is proven can keep on arguing and nothing will be established at the end of the day.

This is where our mullahs and professors fail us very badly. It is time we stopped being silly and went for things that really matter and not for things that waste time.

The issue discussed here becomes very simple once anyone can answer the question of proof and proving. It is because deciding the basis for argument is vital not the detail. You cannot build a building without any solid basis. The truth is only true because it can be proven true and not because of our make beliefs.

The very foundation upon which is based the quran is unknown to us muslims and that is why we are in the situation that we are.

The real problem is understanding the role of the quran, the hadith and the fiqh in islam. We need to ask ourselves what is the purpose of the quran, what is the purpose of the hadith and what is the purpose of the fiqh or jurisprudence?

The question that helps understand things in their proper context is, what is islam? Once we realise what islam is then we can clearly see the role for each of the said things. Islam is goal set by Allah for the mankind through his message in form of the quran via his final messenger. The quran is the divine manifesto or program from Allah for the mankind to learn and teach each other and if people like the program then they come together and form a good human society basing it on the quran as its constitution.

The quran is constitution because it is word of the sole sovereign of this universe. Allah alone is king therefore only and only his word is law and not of any other person be one a prophet of Allah. This should leave no doubt in anyone's mind that quran has a unique place in islam for muslims ie people who are committed to live peacefully themselves and are duty bound to spread the very same message worldwide to rest of humanity.

People make a huge mistake when they attach hadith or fiqh with the quran in a wrong way. Hadith is mainly not word of Allah but a report about word or deed of the prophet or his companions. The report simply tells its reader about what the prophet said or did or what his companions said or did. It is like a newspaper telling on day to day things that happened at the time in that society or among those people. In these reports we find how prophet understood the divine message and implemented it by using the quran as basis for his society at the time under his circumstances and situations. Therefore the importance of hadith is that it tells us the way the divine messenger did things and not what he did in his time unless it is relevant to later times. Why? Because we live in a world that changes with time therefore circumstances change and situations change so not everything the prophet said or did remains relevant for all times. Only those things that remain relevant for all times and apply to situations and circumstances that still keep occurring that remain relevant other than that all things are time bound, circumstance bound or situation bound so trying to fit everything everywhere or trying to apply everything everywhere is utterly stupid thing to do and this is especially terrible if a muslim does that because he is supposed to be a learned man ie man of wisdom. If a man is educated by God who is wise acts ignorantly and worse than animals, how will that reflect on his educator God? So anyone who claims to be a muslim and yet acts stupid must think many times over as to what one is uttering or doing.

This helps to know what was told by Allah in the quran and how people including the prophet accomplished what they were told. From this muslims can derive some helpful ideas or clues as to how to use quran for their own circumstances and situations just like the prophet and his companion used it for their time.

Fiqh is also important in a similar way that we can learn how muslims throughout times acted according to their understanding of the quran and the hadith.

Just as prophet and his companions had to improvise things so did later muslims and so there is need for present muslims to follow the quran and the hadith the same way.

This is proper context of the whole thing, which shows clear relationship between all important sources of islam. One can clearly see that the quran sets clear limits as to how to form laws with a set purpose in mind ie to accomplish and maintain freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, peace, progress and prosperity within the muslim society. In islam the purpose of law is not to control people but to regulate the society for the set purpose of peace=islam. So any laws that oppress, suppress, cause injustice, unfairness, cruelty, animosity, regression, poverty and therefore trouble in muslim society are unislamic laws.

In time of prophet, the prophet himself and his companions used to solve their facing problem through mutual consultation in light of given quranic guidelines and so did later muslims and so should muslims of today. This must always be remembered by members of this ummah otherwise we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. Unfortunately that is what we have been doing so far and the result of doing that is in front of our own eyes that we have no respect in the world and we have no respect for each other. Time for us to change all that. Wake up and look at real world stop living in the imaginary world of your own.

Times change things change therefore situations change and circumstances change therefore to form new laws becomes a necessity all the time. This is why the divine constitution is given with values and formulae to give us ability to form laws as we need them rather than giving us list of laws. Start learning the quran and hadith properly showing that you have the brains the quran and hadith need for their proper understanding.

Taking hadith or fiqh laws as permanent is therefore right in some sense but wrong in another sense. All laws are permanent in the sense of their existence once they are formed but their application or use depends on situations and circumstances. No law is applicable at all the times under all the circumstances and in all situations.

Once people understand this basic context all differences between people will disappear that are based on misunderstadning of role of sources of islam.

The other differences are due to true and false information. It is accepted by all sects of muslims that not all so called ahadith are actually ahadith because many of them are false and many have other defects that do not allow them to reach set standards for their authenticity. Much more of that nature is true in case of fiqh books. All this came about due to sudden expansion of islam and lack of coping with it by muslims at the time. This resulted in people with ulterior motives join muislim ranks for their own agendas and therefore such information made its way in to islamic sources as was in fact anti islam eg jews who turned to islam were not all smart nor sincere so they spread their nonsense in guise of islam ie their ideas and traditions. The christians who accepted islam did the same and so did parsees and hindus or pagans etc etc. All brought their own baggages with them and slowly turned muslims like themselves instead understanding islam properly and spreading it, accomplishing it and maintaining it. This is why islamic empire that was build by the prophet did not last for long because later muslims did not work as hard to keep it alive as the prophet himself did.

This is why if people sorted out things properly then we will have pure islam that prophet himself implemented with help of his companions at the time.

As all islamic laws were and are made for a set purpose in mind due to certain situations and circumstances that face people at any given time under a set of circumstances therefore no law applies to anyone or anything unless those very situations and circumstances are present.

In context of the above explanation people can decide whether anything they fight over today is relevant or not or if it is then how much of it is relevant and how much should be left alone. The quran does not tell us any list of laws but just values and rules for formation of laws which muslims must make themselves with consultation looking at what is going on around the world and within muslim society. It is utterly stupid to make willy nilly laws then try to live by them which make a mess of the whole thing called islam and make muslims as awhole the laughing stock for the world.

Most translations of the quran are wrong and they are wrong because people who translated the quran failed to understand concepts the quran teaches. So the understandings of the quranic text that are based upon misconceptions are not going to be helpful to begin with. This problem can only be removed by producing a proper contextualised and conceptualised translation that is more of an explanation rather than word for word translation. It is because words do not have exact equivalents in other languages so they need to be explained rather than being replaced by another word that makes no sense. Not only that but is also a matter reading the mind of God and at best we can only try this is why no matter what no translation or interpretation is word of God but all are human works and so they should be treated as such. In other words don't put your own words in mouth of God or in other words don't be stupid be wise.

Ummah must take this major step in trying to understand the quran properly if it is ready to unite all its members. Otherwise there is no chance for peace even within muslim unmmah so world has to wait till we sort out our self created problems.

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