Answering Video of Altaf about creation of Pakistan Mistake

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The Things which we have to Learn as a Nation

There is a Video where Altaf Hussain is saying that "Creation of Pakistan" was a mistake.

I personally believe that it was a Mistake by Altaf Hussain to say such thing and that too in India.

But there is much more to say on this Issue than simply blaming Altaf Hussain to making Mistake and to be a Traitor of Pakistan. Following is the Lesson which our Nation has to learn.

*********************

What is WISE: Making People Friends of Making People Enemy?

Now let us come to a Lesson, which is very necessary to be learned as a Nation for us.

- Millions of Muslims of India voted for Pakistan (the ration in Central India was even higher than areas which are currently in Pakistan)

- It was almost impossible for every Muslim in India to leave every thing and to migrate to Pakistan.
Result: Only 10% Indian Muslims were able to migrate to Pakistan. Rest 90% had to stay in India (Frankly Speaking, Pakistan didn't have the capacity to host all 100% Indian Muslim Population at that time)


- So, we as Pakistanies, we did have some Moral DUTY and Responsibility towards Indian Muslims. But it seems that we failed.
And Indians were wiser than us. They absorbed that remaining Indian Muslims in their Society and net result is this that newer Generation of Indian Muslims is supporting Indian Government instead of Pakistan (contrary to older generation).

means we Lost Millions of Supporters due to our negligence
means India won Millions of Supporters due to our mistakes.


***********************

Loosing Millions of Supporters in East Pakistan

Then same Drama was played in East Pakistan.

Out text books only tell us that Mujeeb ur Rehman was a traitor to Pakistan. But they don't tell us he was one of the most loyal supporters of Qaid-e-Azam at time of creation of Pakistan and played big role that Muslims of Province Bengal decide to become part of Pakistan at time of it's creation.

But how come then that we lost this lover of Pakistan after few years? Not only we lost him, but we lost millions and millions of Lovers of Pakistan in East Section. Not only we lost them, but they cosidered us their biggest enemy and we considered them worst Traitors against Pakistan????

This is very very Important Question.

I always give invitation to Pakistani Society to ponder over this Question. There is lot to learn from our History.

If we are able to solve this Question, then for sure we will solve all the problems in Karachi too.

But if we forget our History and don't learn from our Mistakes, then we will become history ourselves.


******************************

Only Solution : JUSTICE

4th Caliph, Ali Ibn Abi Talib said: "A soceity may exist and prosper on bases of KUFR, but it could never survive on bases of INJUSTICE". In Urdu:

??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? [????????] ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? [???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??]


Had we given the rights of people in East Pakistan to them, we would have not made millions of people our enemy. The lack of this JUSTICE was the main base of all that hatred and problems in East Pakistan due to which at end we declared millions of our East Pakistani Brothers to be traitor of Pakistan.


And all the problems started in Karachi too due to lack of this Justice (in 1970s). People of Karachi were better educated people and had more Political awareness. It was not easy to keep them in dark or under force (as poor Haries in Sindh and farmers in Punjab by Jageerdars).

This so called Bribe and Sifarish System is one of the biggest Evils in Pakistani Society. Not only Mahajirs have complaints against PUnjab, but all other provinces are constantly accusing Punjab that people are not taken on MERIT system in Central Institutes but all big posts belong to Punjabies and they prefer to take Punjabies too for new jobs etc. [I am not talking about it being Right or Wrong at moment, but I am only telling that People have strong doubts in their minds that MERIT System is not there but Jobs are given due to Sifarish and Bribery etc]

There are many more Evils (some of them I hinted above. Rest I will speak about later on. Insha-Allah).

************************

A Practical Example of Musharraf Era

This is the biggest slap on faces of so called Democratic Governments of Nawaz Sharif and PPP

When President Musharraf came and introduced the local Government System, then it was the very first time when People of Karachi felt that they have been given their rights (or a big part of their rights) and now much of their fate lies in their hands.

Even first Local Government didn't belong to Mutahiddah (but Jamaat while Mutahiddah boycotted first elections due to lack of confidence on Military Government), but still there was total peace and violence in that era too.

There are many types of taxes. But earlier, the local taxes of Karachi, which were collected in name of water, severage, local road making etc. went to Sindh Provincial Government and then never came back. Result was no development in Karachi.

But President Musharraf succeeded in developing Karachi and bringing peace in Karachi without even firing a Single Bullet. And Mutahiddah also responded to it very Positively and they put not even a single Illegal Condition for peace (which their opponents always accused them of i.e. forming of Jinahpur etc and loyal to India etc.)

So, the Key Word is JUSTICE

**************************

Traitors to Pakistan


I am sorry to President Zardari for taking his words ....... but as nation we should remember:

Pakistan is no Quran or Hadith which lasts forever despite our blunders

- Why we forget that it was same ALTAF HUSSAIN who thanked Pak Army for saving the lives of Muhajirs in Haiderabad during the Paka Qilla Operation.

- Not only Altaf Hussain, but all Muhajirs were raising slogans in favour of Pak Army at this act.

- But then came the BLACK ERA and there were clashes between Security Forces and MQM in Karachi where estimated 18000 Muhajirs were killed [Again I am not talking about who was right or wrong or both were wrong]. But one fact is clear that People of Karachi accused PPP and Nawaz Sharif for the Extra Judicial Killings and backed Muttahida Fully.


- People were simply arrested by Police, and then only their dead Bodies retunred. The real brother of Altaf Hussain and his young Nephew were killed in such way too. Afer looking at all this bloodbath of estimated 18000 of people and his close relative, every one could go nuts.

- Then we heard Altaf Hussain in India where he was saying that creation of Pakistan was a mistake.

- People of Karachi, who supported Muttahidah, they themselves didn't like it and think agaist it, but few Realities are here to be noted:

Firstly, Altaf Hussain is not the first who believe creation of Pakistan to be historic mistake. But millions of Indian Muslims and East Pakistani Muslims also believed it. Should we also then declare all of these Millions of Muslims to be traitors of Pakistan?


Secondly, normal Pakistanies damn care about Indian Muslims, but major sacrifies came from Muhajirs. For them it was the real DIVISION of BLOOD.
If daughter is in Pakistan, then Parents are in India and vice versa. There were millions of families of Muhajirs who really felt this Division of Blood and suffered under it badly.


So, we do have a problem. We should not deny it. Creation of Pakistan did brought all these hardships for millions of these Families. And even after all these sufferings right from the times of creation of Pakistan, again there are great INJUSTICES in Karachi that 18000 people were killed in extra judicial Killings by Forces, worst treatment by Rangers ....... then for sure there are people who raise the question about Creation of Pakistan and Division of Blood. You could never oppress these voices.

Solution doesn't lies in declaring Mutahiddah to be Terrorist and Traitor.

But Solution lies in bringing Justice to the Area, making them friends and not enemies, showing love to these people and handle them as Pakistanies. Even if they have gone against us, but only love and patience could bring them back towards us.

There are even fights between two real brothers. But love and patience is the only way to solve problems.


Creation of Pakistan was not Quran or Sunnah that any one who views it to be a mistake should be blamed to be a traitor and should be hanged.

No.

Just remember Hadhrat Umar didn't cut the hands of one thief while it were the conditions of hunger which compelled him to steal.

Remember, same is the case here. First Blame goes to these conditions of Injustice, Extra Judicial Killings, Division of Blood ..... which caused people to believe that Creation of Pakistan was a mistake.


So remove these Conditions. Don't kill brothers and nephews of people. And even after removing all these Conditions one still open his mouth against Pakistan, then he is really the culprit. But till the time these conditions are not removed, we have to show patience (as Hadhrat Umar showed with that thief who stole).

Altaf Hussain is a reality and millions of People of Karachi who support him and Mutahiddah are also a reality. If you are wise enough, then you could realise it (and not make a mistake again when you blamed Majeeb ur Rehman too for a traitor without watching to the fact how many millions of East Pakistanies were standing behind him).


*****************************

And at last, it is not only People of Karachi who questions some times the creation of Pakistan due to their sufferings and division of Blood, but it is millions and millions of Indian Muslims too who are today questioning the creation of Pakistan and the decision made by their older generation.


May I ask people here if they ever met an Indian Muslims and tried to hear all his complaints silently and then ever thougt over it?

Let me tell you a little about THINKING of Millions of Indian Muslims. You will see them always making one Calculation i.e. 160 Million Muslims of Pakistan + 150 Million Muslims of India + 150 Million Muslims of Bangladesh = 460-470 Millions of Muslims in India

This mean Muslims would have been in such a big numbers that Hindu Extremists would have got no chance to show the cruelity towards Indian Muslims, or to make then 2nd degree Citizens, or to snatch the jobs from them and to keep them backward.

In brief, Indian Muslims blame creation of Pakistan for all the hardships they have to face today. Hardships not only mean Hindu Extremists, but it also mean Division of Blood for Indian Muslims too, which their half families are in India and half are in Pakistan/Bangladesh.

Unfortunately, except for Muhajirs, no one care about the Indian Muslims and how they look at the creation of Pakistan after all these 60 years.

So Sir,

Things are not so simple. They have a deep background.

You may keep on denying all this (like tens of other Pakistanies to whom I showed the Dark Angles of this whold Picture).

Our fate lies in our own hands. Should we approach to Million of People of Karachi (Mutahiddah Supporters) with hatred and Accusations, ...... or to approach them with Justice, love and respect.

No one is perfect. All have negative sides too. And clapping could only be done with two hands i.e. both parties should show the right attitude. Insha-Allah.
 
M

Murshad Jee

Guest
My grand parents came from IndIa and I belong to an Urdu speaking family and we still have our relatives in India BUT
Myself, my parents or my grand parents NEVER EVER claimed that we are MOHAJIRS
we were only PAKISTANI and are only PAKISTANI and will be only PAKISTANI
why should I call myself as MOHAJIR even I born in PAKISTAN
our relatives who lives in India they are INDIANS and only INDIANS
the people still claiming they are MOHAJIRS they are actually creating walls inside Pakistan
If someone saying that creation of PAKISTAN was a mistake then why no they go back to INDIA and join the millions of Muslims there who never wanted to come to PAKISTAN or never decided their future direction. They are more then whole population of Pakistan and if even now they stand up for their rights they can get their INDEPENDENT STATE, but they never tried even if you remember what happened in Gujrat (in India) Muslims were burnt alive.
You know what
We don't have strong faith in ALLAH PAK, they must think that we will die if we get separation from India because we don't have anything but they should remember ALLAH PAK is Greatest and HE will look after them.
In 1947 after creation of PAKISTAN what we had
nothing but now
ALLAH PAK gave us everything and and we even have nuclear power as well.
and I believe that what ever crices we'r facing now is our test from ALLAH PAK and Insha ALLAH these problems will finish soon but
what we have to do is
try hard to find out our hidden enemies and get rid of them as soon as we can.
 

waqqaskhan

Councller (250+ posts)
AA

Many people have tried in the past to defend the ideas of MQM, but MQM itself has negated the idea of MQM by saying no to IDP's. I lived 8 years in Karachi I believe there is nothing worse than ethnicity, as muslims we are all brothers. Giving it any name or making any excuse for it does not make it ligimate, making politics on the basis of ethincity wheather its MQM, JIYESNIDH, ANP,BLP, etc is against Islam and Islamic brotherhood.
 

Jury

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
waqqaskhan said:
AA

Many people have tried in the past to defend the ideas of MQM, but MQM itself has negated the idea of MQM by saying no to IDP's. I lived 8 years in Karachi I believe there is nothing worse than ethnicity, as muslims we are all brothers. Giving it any name or making any excuse for it does not make it ligimate, making politics on the basis of ethincity wheather its MQM, JIYESNIDH, ANP,BLP, etc is against Islam and Islamic brotherhood.


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfDMzYpdbM0[/video]

Watch the below video, especially after 5:30
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ5WD7rgFlE&feature=channel_page[/video]
 

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Murshad Jee said:
My grand parents came from IndIa and I belong to an Urdu speaking family and we still have our relatives in India BUT
Myself, my parents or my grand parents NEVER EVER claimed that we are MOHAJIRS
we were only PAKISTANI and are only PAKISTANI and will be only PAKISTANI
why should I call myself as MOHAJIR even I born in PAKISTAN
our relatives who lives in India they are INDIANS and only INDIANS
the people still claiming they are MOHAJIRS they are actually creating walls inside Pakistan
If someone saying that creation of PAKISTAN was a mistake then why no they go back to INDIA and join the millions of Muslims there who never wanted to come to PAKISTAN or never decided their future direction. They are more then whole population of Pakistan and if even now they stand up for their rights they can get their INDEPENDENT STATE, but they never tried even if you remember what happened in Gujrat (in India) Muslims were burnt alive.
You know what
We don't have strong faith in ALLAH PAK, they must think that we will die if we get separation from India because we don't have anything but they should remember ALLAH PAK is Greatest and HE will look after them.
In 1947 after creation of PAKISTAN what we had
nothing but now
ALLAH PAK gave us everything and and we even have nuclear power as well.
and I believe that what ever crices we'r facing now is our test from ALLAH PAK and Insha ALLAH these problems will finish soon but
what we have to do is
try hard to find out our hidden enemies and get rid of them as soon as we can.


Murshad Brother,

I just hope and pray that you are not among the ones who blindly hate any one and are unable to do the Justice. Insha-Allah.

First of all you are right that Allah (swt) has bless Pakistan with a lot of GOODS. But it is really unfortunate that we are "Na-Shukray" and we made a hell out of Pakistan and so much Muslim Blood has been flown in Pakistan by the hands of our own Muslim Pakistani brothers that such example could not be find any where (even not in India).

There is no Harm in Using Word "Muhajirs" as an Identity

I have only one point for you brother.

People beleive that using Word Muhajirs is a SIN by MQM.

No, it is not a SIN.


1. It was not MQM but AAin-e-Pakistan of 1951 which gave this Community this Name

So, it was the Official name of this community which was given in 1951 and was not changed afterwards.

Other communities got the name of Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Kashmiri etc.


2. The Community along whom Rasool (saw) migrated, it was also always known as Muhajireen

Also, the people who migrated from Mecca to Madina were also came to known as Muhajireen as a community.

So, there is absolutely no problem in taking this name as a Community. Neither it is a problem, nor it is a Sin.

But REAL Problem lies some where else (i.e. a System which is not based on Justice). Please read my First mail once again where I have written in details about this Injustice and it is the Only that BASIC Fitna which is cause of all other Fitnas.

Unfortunately our whole Stress as Nation is upon non-issues like word "Muhajir", but the real Issue which is "Justic in System" we have forgotton and no one speaks about it and no one stress upon it.

I pray to Allah (swt) that we as nation able to see our mistake on this Issue. Insha-Allah.
 

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
waqqaskhan said:
AA
Many people have tried in the past to defend the ideas of MQM, but MQM itself has negated the idea of MQM by saying no to IDP's.

Dear brother, it seems to me that you are a Person of Justice and will handle all with same MEZAAN.

1. As I pointed above that taking the names of Muhajir is not bad in itself as one of the Group of Sahaba were given this name by Rasool Allah (saw) himself.
The only bad thing is not to provide the soceity with Justice in any name.

2. Brother Waqqas, following is not for you but for other opponents of MQM.

I see People are crying against MQM due to IDPs Camps.
May I ask these same People, where were they when 250,000 Stranded Pakistanies were asking for HELP in the camps of Bangladesh for the last 35 years?

MQM was not against INDIVIDUALS who were coming to Karachi, neither it was against IDPs camp, but argument of MQM was valid one that such camps should be created near the effected Areas. Why do you want to ask the effected people to suffer so much to travel more than 1500 Km from One extreme Part of Pakistan (north) the the other extreme Part of Pakistan (SOUTH)? Would it not be better to have these camps in the same areas where effected people could get refuge after travelling only few Miles?

Secondly, there are some things which are known are Groud Realities.

Due to these Ground Realities it was decided that STRANDED Pakistanies in Bangladesh could return to Pakistan, but they would not be allowed to stay in Karachi, but they should be divided in all the provinces of Pakistan. This happened due to the Ground Realities while demographic Changes could not be taken place so randomly. [You could change the demographic equlitbrim gradually, but if you do it at once, then there would be disasters].

Finally I tell you People of Pakistan has still not come out of the fears of those CAMPS which were made after the Afghan WAR. Neither Punjabies, nor Sindhies nor Muhajirs etc.

So, my demand is very simple. Don't blame MQM Only. Do justice and blame Punjab too if it is really a bad move. And also blame whole Pakistan (or big majority of Pakistan) who were not ready to bring back the STRANDED Pakistanies from Bangladesh in last 35+ years.
 
M

Murshad Jee

Guest
zainabia said:
Murshad Jee said:
My grand parents came from IndIa and I belong to an Urdu speaking family and we still have our relatives in India BUT
Myself, my parents or my grand parents NEVER EVER claimed that we are MOHAJIRS
we were only PAKISTANI and are only PAKISTANI and will be only PAKISTANI
why should I call myself as MOHAJIR even I born in PAKISTAN
our relatives who lives in India they are INDIANS and only INDIANS
the people still claiming they are MOHAJIRS they are actually creating walls inside Pakistan
If someone saying that creation of PAKISTAN was a mistake then why no they go back to INDIA and join the millions of Muslims there who never wanted to come to PAKISTAN or never decided their future direction. They are more then whole population of Pakistan and if even now they stand up for their rights they can get their INDEPENDENT STATE, but they never tried even if you remember what happened in Gujrat (in India) Muslims were burnt alive.
You know what
We don't have strong faith in ALLAH PAK, they must think that we will die if we get separation from India because we don't have anything but they should remember ALLAH PAK is Greatest and HE will look after them.
In 1947 after creation of PAKISTAN what we had
nothing but now
ALLAH PAK gave us everything and and we even have nuclear power as well.
and I believe that what ever crices we'r facing now is our test from ALLAH PAK and Insha ALLAH these problems will finish soon but
what we have to do is
try hard to find out our hidden enemies and get rid of them as soon as we can.


Murshad Brother,

I just hope and pray that you are not among the ones who blindly hate any one and are unable to do the Justice. Insha-Allah.

First of all you are right that Allah (swt) has bless Pakistan with a lot of GOODS. But it is really unfortunate that we are "Na-Shukray" and we made a hell out of Pakistan and so much Muslim Blood has been flown in Pakistan by the hands of our own Muslim Pakistani brothers that such example could not be find any where (even not in India).

There is no Harm in Using Word "Muhajirs" as an Identity

I have only one point for you brother.

People beleive that using Word Muhajirs is a SIN by MQM.

No, it is not a SIN.


1. It was not MQM but AAin-e-Pakistan of 1951 which gave this Community this Name

So, it was the Official name of this community which was given in 1951 and was not changed afterwards.

Other communities got the name of Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Kashmiri etc.


2. The Community along whom Rasool (saw) migrated, it was also always known as Muhajireen

Also, the people who migrated from Mecca to Madina were also came to known as Muhajireen as a community.

So, there is absolutely no problem in taking this name as a Community. Neither it is a problem, nor it is a Sin.

But REAL Problem lies some where else (i.e. a System which is not based on Justice). Please read my First mail once again where I have written in details about this Injustice and it is the Only that BASIC Fitna which is cause of all other Fitnas.

Unfortunately our whole Stress as Nation is upon non-issues like word "Muhajir", but the real Issue which is "Justic in System" we have forgotton and no one speaks about it and no one stress upon it.

I pray to Allah (swt) that we as nation able to see our mistake on this Issue. Insha-Allah.
Zainbia Sister
Could you please tell me that ''Did She get Justice from Altaf Hussain after beaten by MQM Nazim''
welldone1.gif

And does Altaf Bhai still calaim himself as a Refugee ''MOHAJIR'' after getting British Passport in United Kingdom.
3328740315_603e868d5a.jpg

I admit that My grand parents could be MOHAJIRS but Me and my Parents born here and we are PAKISTANI and only PAKISTANI not a Refugee, and after getting Passport from any country you are a CITIZEN of that country no more REFUGEE and your children are 100% CITIZEN then why in Karachi after third generation they still call themselves as MOHAJIR................why
 

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Murshad Jee said:
Zainbia Sister
Could you please tell me that ''Did She get Justice from Altaf Hussain after beaten by MQM Nazim''
welldone1.gif

And does Altaf Bhai still calaim himself as a Refugee ''MOHAJIR'' after getting British Passport in United Kingdom.
3328740315_603e868d5a.jpg

I admit that My grand parents could be MOHAJIRS but Me and my Parents born here and we are PAKISTANI and only PAKISTANI not a Refugee, and after getting Passport from any country you are a CITIZEN of that country no more REFUGEE and your children are 100% CITIZEN then why in Karachi after third generation they still call themselves as MOHAJIR................why

(1) Although from the Photo it seems He is doing a wrong Actions, but we must also keep in minds that we have only Photo and not more of Details. One could do Justice only when details are available.
And perhaps he is only showing the belt and not beating. You could see there are tens of MEN sitting around and NONE of them paying any attention to what he is doing?`Why?

It is a custom of our nation whenever a little such fight takes place then 100s of people gather at once to watch the "TAMASHA".

Please look at all the remaining men once again in the Photo. Not even a single one of them is looking at him. It could only be possible when nothing Alarming is happening.

So, first thing first is to have Total Details of an incident to take any decision.

Nevertheless, if the situation was really so bad as was lashing of poor girl by Taliban in SWAT VIDEO, then there is No excuse for such behaviour and should be condemned.

And we must also bear in mind that WHOLE MQM is not like this man, but they are normal people like you and me. So accusing whole MQM for "Women Beating" Party is nothing more than propaganda.

********************

(2) Regarding British Passport of Altaf Hussain.

- Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know Altaf Hussain has not given up Pakistani Citizenship.

Altaf Hussain himself explained the reason for this British Passport and that was he was unable to travel on assylum Documents and he had to go to Canada and America and other countries of Europe as Party Workers were continuously asking to visit them. So, he got the chance to Visit these countries only after getting the British Passport.

Personally I am Open Minded and therefore don't see any thing wrong in it. His problem was genuine and the solution was also genuine.

Millions of Pakistanies live in Europe and US and CAnada and Australia etc. But do really become TRaitors after getting the DUAL nationality? Even my Parents came to Europe but I myself still feel me as patriotic Pakistani as any one living in Pakistan.


***********************

(3) Regarding Name of "Muhajirs" then believe me this is not a core Problem.

It happened like that that they got this name "Mahajir" in comparison to "Punjabi" "Baluchi" "Sindhi" and "Pathan".

Now the others have also not changed their names e.g. from Punjabi to any thing else etc. So it was also not needed by Muhajirs to change their name. It is not Muhajirs themselves, but whole Pakistan and all communities of Pakistan who call them with this name.

Believe me, this process of changing of name is a slow process and takes it Time. People of Karachi has already started changing their name to "New Sindhies", but problem is change of name is slow process. My Parents came to Europe, but my Origins are not forgotten. Even my children go to school then they will also be known as "Pakies". Such things take time and there is noting to get up set upon such things.

Even Muhajirs change their names to "New Sindhies" and MQM changed it to "Muttahidda", but still the whole rest of Pakistan call them Muhajirs. My question is: Why don't the rest of Pakistan give this whole community call with any other name? Why they themselves call them with the name that they object to?
 
M

Murshad Jee

Guest
Zainabia Jee

I think you are so INNOCENT or trying to be an INNOCENT person who doesn't even know what all these stories are.

Just read this report from Asian Human Rights Commission and give me answer about this Nazim what he does and please do not say this is only a picture and by your comments I think you tried to say he (Nazim) just showing his belt and does't want to hit her, You are a woman and you should feel the pain of that woman who was abused and can you not see in the Picture other women trying to save her and all the male crowd was MQM people and the women from the opposition party.
http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2007/2370/

And now we come to the second point........British Passport
For your kind information Refugees gets the TRAVEL DOCUMENTS (UN Geneva Convention 1951) and with these documents REFUGEES can fly to any country in the world expect the country of origin, means ALTAF Bhai could travel on Refugees Travel Documents anywhere in the world but not PAKISTAN and I can not understand this logic that he (Altaf) had to travel to different countries and COULD NOT travel on Refugees travel documents and that's why he (Altaf) got the British Passport............................What a silly joke.
Say these thing or make these kind of silly excuses to some one who doesn't know the law.
Just read this please
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Convention_Travel_Document

Come to the third point now...............Mohajirs
Calling this MOHAJIR is a big big problem you live in Europe and you must know that after a specific time period Refugees anywhere in Europe or in the rest of the world gets the Nationality in that country where they refuge to and after getting Citizenship they are not called Refugees any more.
As far as I concerned no one give you this name Mohajir, only you wanted to be called MOHAJIR and as I mentioned before my Grand Parents came from India and we never ever wanted to be called MOHAJIR and that's why NO ONE calls us MOHAJIRS. You live in Europe and would you like some one call you and your family Refugees in Europe after you or your kids even born there?
And as you mentioned been called ''Pakies'' not Mohajir Pakies
You me and everyone is only and only PAKISTANI
so please stop creating walls between us
 

Jury

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Murshad Jee said:
Zainabia Jee

I think you are so INNOCENT or trying to be an INNOCENT person who doesn't even know what all these stories are.

Just read this report from Asian Human Rights Commission and give me answer about this Nazim what he does and please do not say this is only a picture and by your comments I think you tried to say he (Nazim) just showing his belt and does't want to hit her, You are a woman and you should feel the pain of that woman who was abused and can you not see in the Picture other women trying to save her and all the male crowd was MQM people and the women from the opposition party.
http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2007/2370/

The report started, "According to the information we have received". Instead of publishing the report, they first should have checked the veracity of report.

As the report claimed that, women were severely beaten. If women were really severely beaten, they should have made medical examined, which they didn't. Why?

Also, according to the report, "Mr. Saeed Ghani, the leader of the opposition and Mr. Rafiq Ahmed, a parliamentary leader of a political group called Al-Khidmad, were also severely assaulted along with other opposition members". Why this male hasn't showed the pics of his body, where he was severely assaulted, as he claimed. He also didn't medically examin himself, why?
 

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Murshad Jee said:
Zainabia Jee

I think you are so INNOCENT or trying to be an INNOCENT person who doesn't even know what all these stories are.

Just read this report from Asian Human Rights Commission and give me answer about this Nazim what he does and please do not say this is only a picture and by your comments I think you tried to say he (Nazim) just showing his belt and does't want to hit her, You are a woman and you should feel the pain of that woman who was abused and can you not see in the Picture other women trying to save her and all the male crowd was MQM people and the women from the opposition party.
http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2007/2370/

Thanks Murshad brother for the information.
Now situation is more clear to me than simply having a Photo.

The Report from DAWN newspaper was bit more better than one sided report of that human right website, which was totally one-sided. And Dawn newspaper report also presented the view point of Qaim Ali Shah (ppp), but not presented the point of view of MQM leader.

It is written in DAWN that Qaim Ali Shah went for Judicial Investigations. Are there any results of that judicial investigations? If you know then please also share.

Now coming to incident itself, it is really unfortunate.

I heard such incidents of fighting in Indian Parliament on greater scale. Also in Pakistani Parliament the Media People beat those who didn't want to join them in Protests. There may be more such Incidents in Pakistani History (as members of MQM beaten up in Kashmir Assembly) and all such things show non-civilized behaviour. Also Chief Minister of Sindh was beaten with Shoes and slapped in Sindh Assembly.

So, all such incidents are regretable and Judicial Reports should come out and the culprits should be punished [in all these cases]


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And now we come to the second point........British Passport
For your kind information Refugees gets the TRAVEL DOCUMENTS (UN Geneva Convention 1951) and with these documents REFUGEES can fly to any country in the world expect the country of origin, means ALTAF Bhai could travel on Refugees Travel Documents anywhere in the world but not PAKISTAN and I can not understand this logic that he (Altaf) had to travel to different countries and COULD NOT travel on Refugees travel documents and that's why he (Altaf) got the British Passport............................What a silly joke.
Say these thing or make these kind of silly excuses to some one who doesn't know the law.
Just read this please
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Convention_Travel_Document

Once again thanks for the concrete informations.
I will look into this matter and if find more informations on point of view of MQM, then I will share it with you.

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Come to the third point now...............Mohajirs
Calling this MOHAJIR is a big big problem you live in Europe and you must know that after a specific time period Refugees anywhere in Europe or in the rest of the world gets the Nationality in that country where they refuge to and after getting Citizenship they are not called Refugees any more.
As far as I concerned no one give you this name Mohajir, only you wanted to be called MOHAJIR and as I mentioned before my Grand Parents came from India and we never ever wanted to be called MOHAJIR and that's why NO ONE calls us MOHAJIRS. You live in Europe and would you like some one call you and your family Refugees in Europe after you or your kids even born there?
And as you mentioned been called ''Pakies'' not Mohajir Pakies
You me and everyone is only and only PAKISTANI
so please stop creating walls between us

Murshad brother,

This is not a matter of your Individual Family.

I am afraid that your example of "Pakies" and "Muhajir Pakies" is not correct here.

- While "Paki" in England is the name of Whole Community which came from Pakistan

- And "Muhajir" in Pakistan is the name of Whole Community which came from India.

It may be the "Muhajir" has it's own Literal meaning, but in our Case it is already a name of "Community" just like Punjabi, Baluchi etc.

Although word "Muhajir" is not used with "Pakies", but it automatically meant "Muhajirs who came from Pakistan"


I already told you in previous mail that word Muhajir is no more used in it's literal Sense in Pakistan, but it is a NAME of Whole Community, the same as:
- Punjabi
- Baluchi
- Pushtoon
- Sindhi

Since the name of all these other Communities has also not been changed, therefore it is difficult to change this Name of only ONE Community.

The Muhajireen who migrated from Mecca to Madina, they were used to known as Muhajirs for a long long time. After the Death of Rasool Allah (saw), the leaders of ANSARS gathered in Saqifa Bani Sa'adah and wanted to choose the leader of Muslim Community from Ansars. When Hadhrat Abu Bakr came to know it, he came there and told them the Hadith that Rasool (saw) told that Caliphate will be kept in Muhajireen of Quraish.

So at least during the Life Time of Rasool Allah (saw), this name of whole Group was not changed from Muhajir to any thing else.

Similarly, there are many people alive in Karachi who migrated from India and right in the beginning this whole Community was Officially given the name of Muhajirs by Law. And since that time that name has not been changed Officially.

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I posted few questions in my earlier post regarding Muhajirs.

Also, I request you tell me Personally at this moment that:

1. This whole community which came from India, they need a NAME to be recognized?

2. The Punjabies, Sindhies, Baluchies etc. differentiate themselves with this community which migrated from India?

3. AND IF THIS COMMUNITY REALLY NEEDED A NAME AS SEPARATE COMMUNITY, THEN WHAT NAME HAVE YOU GIVEN TO THEM?

4. AND AT WHAT POINT OF HISTORY HAVE YOU GIVEN THEN THAT NAME?




Question: Let us leave what name these migrated people adopted. Tell us what name has been given by Punjabi, Sindhies etc. to these migrated People?
[In punjab, by extremists they are known as "Hindustorray" or "Hindustanies" or "Bhiyyay". Normal Punjabies also recognize them as only one word "Muhajirs" and it is no wrong in it and it is much better than being known as "Hindustorray" or "Hindustani" or "Bhaiyyay"]. Had other communities given them better name of Identification (exccept for the abvoe mentioned 3 names), I would have supported it. But in absence of any better name, I would also go for the name of Muhajirs.


Conclusion:
=========
I already told you my view on this Issue. There is nothing in the names itself and it is not a big Issue. Main thing is to provide the Justice. Till the time this Justice is not provided, there will be same problems every where [you will be watching Sindhi nationalist problems, you will be watching Pushtoon and Baluchi nationalist problems, you will be watching Saraiki nationalist problems etc]

It is like this, Saraiki people live in Punjab but they don't want to give up their culture and language and want don't want to be knows as Punjabies. They want to maintain their identity.

People of Karachi are living in Sindh, but they are not Sindhies culturally. And they also want to maintain their Identity. And I don't know which name they should have taken. Please help us and tell us what name they should take except for MUhajirs, which could suit to their Identity? It is a very simple question and I hope you give a simple answer to this.

Lately I see that MQM is trying to take the name of "New Sindhies". I don't know if it is going to work while it doesn't suit to their Identity.