Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is WTF
- Thread starter jootaymaro
- Start date
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
A declared Prophet's message is documented in a revealed book or He confirms the Revealed Book already available before his arrival, like before Jesus there was Torah. So please explain what you wish to convey?
Please elaborate! It seems that there is some kind of "catch" in the above statement.
A declared Prophet's message is documented in a revealed book or He confirms the Revealed Book already available before his arrival, like before Jesus there was Torah. So please explain what you wish to convey?
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
--No brother, don't get me wrong there isn't any catch,the knowledge of unseen is verily with Allah ( SWT) but all i'm asking is about the Prophecies made regarding the things to occur by our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) the knowledge of which was ofcourse given to him by Allah ( SWT) coz some people tend to confuse such a clear matter.
babadeena said:
--No brother, don't get me wrong there isn't any catch,the knowledge of unseen is verily with Allah ( SWT) but all i'm asking is about the Prophecies made regarding the things to occur by our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) the knowledge of which was ofcourse given to him by Allah ( SWT) coz some people tend to confuse such a clear matter.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
Brother! Let me clarify it. If stated-Hadith or stated-Sunnah is not against the Quranic teaching, then there is no problem in accepting and implementing. An example: Quran says that "No one knows Gaib(unseen), except Allah," . Even in Quran, our Prophet(PBUH) said that "I do not know unseen". Now if anyone tries to be justifying the same thing with the help of Hadiths, that I will not accept.
"significant" I mean that If someone is praying Salaat with all the pre-requistes of Quran, Like Wazoo, Rakoo, Sajida, Hamid, Tasbih, Darood, so keeping pant above ankle or down become insignificant because this is disputed.
I hope I am clear.[/quote:3fdrjrpk]
I beg your pardon for question our most learned member, but I must ask: where in Qur'an, Muhammad (s.a.w.) said "I do not know unseen" ? Can you please post the reference? Much obliged
babadeena said:
Brother! Let me clarify it. If stated-Hadith or stated-Sunnah is not against the Quranic teaching, then there is no problem in accepting and implementing. An example: Quran says that "No one knows Gaib(unseen), except Allah," . Even in Quran, our Prophet(PBUH) said that "I do not know unseen". Now if anyone tries to be justifying the same thing with the help of Hadiths, that I will not accept.
"significant" I mean that If someone is praying Salaat with all the pre-requistes of Quran, Like Wazoo, Rakoo, Sajida, Hamid, Tasbih, Darood, so keeping pant above ankle or down become insignificant because this is disputed.
I hope I am clear.[/quote:3fdrjrpk]
I beg your pardon for question our most learned member, but I must ask: where in Qur'an, Muhammad (s.a.w.) said "I do not know unseen" ? Can you please post the reference? Much obliged
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
Perhaps it will help you. From Complete Quran the references are:
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/l00031/uns ... het/p.html
If u like any more reference from Quran, I shall be more than happy to
help you. I hope your next Khutba in a local Masjid will be based on the
page and topic posted above.
Thanks.
Perhaps it will help you. From Complete Quran the references are:
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/l00031/uns ... het/p.html
If u like any more reference from Quran, I shall be more than happy to
help you. I hope your next Khutba in a local Masjid will be based on the
page and topic posted above.
Brother all important things have been covered in Quran. Rest Allah is aware only. An example: Quran does not say that WHEN (Time, Day/Date) will be Qiyyama, but does explain the incidents happening before its arrival. So I am more than content and extremely satisfied what is in Quran about future. If you give an example of prophecy just one example i shall screen it through Quran then will be able to say how far it is near to the Quran.
Thanks.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
baba deena, you are a pathetically confused man. You have accused our Aqa (s.a.w) of saying something in Qur'an that is not true, and now you didnt reply with any correct reference I requested. You seem to have very little or no knowledge of Qur'an and you have dragged this thread for so long. You are trying to win an argument by confusing people. Another member said it rightly that you are a confused man.
You have accused Muhammad (s.a.w.) of saying in Quran:
Even in Quran, our Prophet(PBUH) said that "I do not know unseen".
Do you know that He (s.a.w.) NEVER said anything in Quran? This is how uneducated you are. Quran was revealed UPON Him, not by Him, He (s.a.w.) couldnt have said anything. Therefore accusing Him (s.a.w.) of saying something in Quran is utter blasphemy and munafqat.
The only way He (s.a.w.) could have said anything in the Book, would have been AFTER He(s.a.w.) received the revelations. And if He (s.a.w.) were to do that, He(s.a.w.) would have modified Quran. Nauz-u-billah.
Get some education in Quran, may be read Urdu translation to. Read yourself the reference you have given. You will notice, Muhammad (s.a.w.) never said that in Quran.
As per my khutbas, I do not need any help from jahileens. Alhmadulillah I am quiet capable of reading Qur'an, researching, understanding Urdu translations, ahadeeth, and tafaseer etc.
Moral of the story: You are very argumentative, and you have no idea what are you talking about, nor you know how to read Quran, it appears to be. Case closed. Please do not reply to this post. I had enough
kaisey kaisey jahileen hain aajkal. Astaghfirullah
baba deena, you are a pathetically confused man. You have accused our Aqa (s.a.w) of saying something in Qur'an that is not true, and now you didnt reply with any correct reference I requested. You seem to have very little or no knowledge of Qur'an and you have dragged this thread for so long. You are trying to win an argument by confusing people. Another member said it rightly that you are a confused man.
You have accused Muhammad (s.a.w.) of saying in Quran:
Even in Quran, our Prophet(PBUH) said that "I do not know unseen".
Do you know that He (s.a.w.) NEVER said anything in Quran? This is how uneducated you are. Quran was revealed UPON Him, not by Him, He (s.a.w.) couldnt have said anything. Therefore accusing Him (s.a.w.) of saying something in Quran is utter blasphemy and munafqat.
The only way He (s.a.w.) could have said anything in the Book, would have been AFTER He(s.a.w.) received the revelations. And if He (s.a.w.) were to do that, He(s.a.w.) would have modified Quran. Nauz-u-billah.
Get some education in Quran, may be read Urdu translation to. Read yourself the reference you have given. You will notice, Muhammad (s.a.w.) never said that in Quran.
As per my khutbas, I do not need any help from jahileens. Alhmadulillah I am quiet capable of reading Qur'an, researching, understanding Urdu translations, ahadeeth, and tafaseer etc.
Moral of the story: You are very argumentative, and you have no idea what are you talking about, nor you know how to read Quran, it appears to be. Case closed. Please do not reply to this post. I had enough
kaisey kaisey jahileen hain aajkal. Astaghfirullah
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
Gazoomartian! U R not only "Last" but also a "LOST" case. Andhay ko andheray mein boht door kee sujee. (a blind man hit upon a plan). Please concentrate on old songs that is the only thing you can do, I think, at the point of age, where U have been now, it is not abnormal way of getting the things.
gazoomartian said:
Gazoomartian! U R not only "Last" but also a "LOST" case. Andhay ko andheray mein boht door kee sujee. (a blind man hit upon a plan). Please concentrate on old songs that is the only thing you can do, I think, at the point of age, where U have been now, it is not abnormal way of getting the things.
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
With Him are the Keys of the Unseen
By Sheikh Htim al-`Awn, professor at Umm al-Qur University
Source: http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-266-3150.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Allah says: With him are the keys of the Unseen. No one knows them save He. And He knows what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falls but He knows it, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, naught of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a clear record. [Srah al-An`m: 59]
There can be no doubt that Allah has kept knowledge of the Unseen his exclusive domain.
He says: No one who is in the heavens and the Earth knows the Unseen except Allah; and they do not know when they shall be resurrected. [Srah al-Naml: 65]
Allah reveals some matters of the Unseen to his select servants among the angels and the Prophets. He does not reveal to them everything, only what He wishes to reveal.
Created beings have not been made capable of knowing everything of the Unseen. How could it be otherwise when Allah Himself is the greatest of all things Unseen. Can anyone compass Allah with their knowledge?
When we read the story of Adams creation in the Qurn, we can see clearly that the angels did not have knowledge of the Unseen.
Allah relates to us the dialogue that transpired between Him and the angels at that time:
And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a vicegerent., they said: What! Would you place therein such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, while we celebrate Your praise and extol Your holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.
And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: Tell me the names of these if you are right. They said: Glory be to You! We have no knowledge but that which You have taught us. Surely You are the Knowing, the Wise.
He said: O Adam! Inform them of their names. Then when he had informed them of their names, (Allah) said: Did I not say to you that I surely know what is Unseen in the heavens and the Earth, and I know what you manifest and what you hide? [Srah al-Baqarah: 30-33]
Allah also tells us in the Qurn that the Prophets (peace be upon him) do not possess any knowledge of the Unseen save what He chooses to reveal to them.
He says: Say (O Muhammad): I do not say to you that I possess Allahs treasures, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen. I do not say to you that I am an angel. I follow only that which has been revealed to me. [Srah al-An`m: 50]
In this verse, Allah states clearly to us that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not know everything about the Unseen. Indeed, in this verse Allah had instructed him to tell his followers directly that he did not have such knowledge.
Indeed, the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not even know everything that was going to happen to him during the course of his life. He knew only some of these things what Allah chose to reveal to him.
Allah commands him in the Qurn to convey this fact to the people: Say (O Muhammad): I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm except what Allah wills. If I had known the Unseen, I would have brought on for myself a lot of good and nothing evil would ever befall me. I am but a giver of warnings and of glad tidings for a people who believe. [Srah al-A`rf: 188]
This should become all the more obvious to us when we study the Prophets biography. From the events of His life, we can clearly see that he had no knowledge of the Unseen except what Allah had revealed to him. How often did he and his Companions suffer from misfortune and adversity? If he had known the Unseen, he would have avoided these hardships and would have protected his Companions from them. If a person were to look for examples of such misfortunes from the Prophets biography, he would find that indeed almost all his biography is a series of trials and hardships.
Some deviant people who wish to attribute to themselves and others the ability to know the Unseen, cite certain spurious evidence from the Sunnah to support the idea that the Prophet (peace be upon him) and others can possess such knowledge.
They like to cite the hadth attributed to Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (peace be upon him) supposedly said: Allah raised up the world for me so I could look upon it and see what will exist on it until the Day of Judgment just as I see the palm of my hand. Allah has made it as clear for me as it was for the Prophets before me.
This is a spurious hadth.1 It is wrong to even attribute this statement to the Prophet (peace be upon him), let alone use it to prove a point that is in direct contradiction to the Qurn.
Another hadth that they often cite is a statement attributed to the Companion Ab Dharr al-Ghifr, whereby he is to have said: Muhammad (peace be upon him) had left us in the following state: that there was not even a bird in the sky flapping its wings without his having already imparted to us knowledge about it.
There is disagreement about its chain of transmission.2 However, the pertinent question here is: What does the hadth mean?
In his book entitled Gharb al-Hadth, al-Khattb explains the hadth as saying that the Prophet (peace be upon him) completely and thoroughly expounded on Islam so that nothing remained ambiguous. He even explained to them all the rulings related to birds what of them is lawful and what is unlawful, how they should be slaughtered, what a pilgrim must pay if he kills one during the Hajj, and so forth. [Gharb al-Hadth (2/287)]
We know that this is certainly what Ab Dharr had meant, because al-Tabarn relates the hadth with the following wording:
Ab Dharr said: Allahs Messenger (peace be upon him) had left us in the following state: that there was not even a bird flapping its wings in the air without his having already imparted to us knowledge about it. Then he said (peace be upon him): Nothing remains that brings you closer to Paradise or further from the Hellfire except that it has been explained to you. [al-Mu`jam al-Kabr (2/155-156)]
This more complete narration of the hadth makes it clear that what the Companions had learned about birds was in relation to the Islamic rulings about them. They were not given a full categorization of bird species or told what was going to happen to each and every one of them until the Day of Judgment. No rational person would even entertain such an absurd idea.
After the unambiguous and indisputable evidence from the Qurn and Sunnah that only Allah has knowledge of the Unseen, is it right for someone to bring forth spurious and inconclusive evidence to the contrary? Such is the conduct of people in whose heart is a disease.
Allah says: He is the one who revealed to you the Book. In it are clear verses they are the basis of the Book and others that are allegorical. As for those in whose heart is a disease, they seek after what is allegorical seeking discord and seeking their own interpretation. No one knows their interpretation save Allah; and those who are firm in knowledge say: We believe in it. It is all from our Lord. None will take heed except people of understanding. [Srah Al `Imrn: 7]
_____________________________________
1. This hadth is mentioned by al-Qastalln in his book al-Mawhib al-Ladunniyah (3/559) in which he quotes it from al-Tabarn. Al-Tabarn mentions this hadth in al-Mu`jam al-Kabr, as mentioned by al-Haytham in Majma` al-Zawid (8/287) and by Ab Nu`aym in Hilyat al-Awliy (6/101). Na`m b. Hammd relates the same hadth in al-Fitan, (1/27 No. 2).
All these narration are through Sa`d b. Sinn through Ab al-Zhiriyah through Kuthayr b. Murrah from Ibn `Umar. Ibn Hajr, in ,em>al-Taqrb (No. 2333), classifies Sa`d b. Sinn al-Hums as: someone to be abandoned. Al-Draqutn and others have accused him of fabricating hadth.
For this reason, we fund that al-Haytham, when he records this hadth, takes pains to mention how severely weak Sa`d b. Sinn is as a narrator. [Majma` al-Zawid (8/287)]
______________________________________
2. This hadth is related by Ahmad in his Musnad (21361,21439, and 21440), al-Tabarni in al-Mu`jam al-Kabr (2/155-156 No. 1647), Ibn Hibbn in his Sahh (No. 65), and others.
According to al-Draqutrn, it is narrated by Mundhir al-Thawr with an incomplete chain of transmission from Ab Dharr. Though its incompleteness is sufficient for the hadth to be weak, there are other narrations that support its meaning and lend credence to it.
With Him are the Keys of the Unseen
By Sheikh Htim al-`Awn, professor at Umm al-Qur University
Source: http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-266-3150.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Allah says: With him are the keys of the Unseen. No one knows them save He. And He knows what is in the land and the sea. Not a leaf falls but He knows it, not a grain amid the darkness of the earth, naught of wet or dry but (it is noted) in a clear record. [Srah al-An`m: 59]
There can be no doubt that Allah has kept knowledge of the Unseen his exclusive domain.
He says: No one who is in the heavens and the Earth knows the Unseen except Allah; and they do not know when they shall be resurrected. [Srah al-Naml: 65]
Allah reveals some matters of the Unseen to his select servants among the angels and the Prophets. He does not reveal to them everything, only what He wishes to reveal.
Created beings have not been made capable of knowing everything of the Unseen. How could it be otherwise when Allah Himself is the greatest of all things Unseen. Can anyone compass Allah with their knowledge?
When we read the story of Adams creation in the Qurn, we can see clearly that the angels did not have knowledge of the Unseen.
Allah relates to us the dialogue that transpired between Him and the angels at that time:
And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a vicegerent., they said: What! Would you place therein such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, while we celebrate Your praise and extol Your holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.
And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: Tell me the names of these if you are right. They said: Glory be to You! We have no knowledge but that which You have taught us. Surely You are the Knowing, the Wise.
He said: O Adam! Inform them of their names. Then when he had informed them of their names, (Allah) said: Did I not say to you that I surely know what is Unseen in the heavens and the Earth, and I know what you manifest and what you hide? [Srah al-Baqarah: 30-33]
Allah also tells us in the Qurn that the Prophets (peace be upon him) do not possess any knowledge of the Unseen save what He chooses to reveal to them.
He says: Say (O Muhammad): I do not say to you that I possess Allahs treasures, nor that I have knowledge of the Unseen. I do not say to you that I am an angel. I follow only that which has been revealed to me. [Srah al-An`m: 50]
In this verse, Allah states clearly to us that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not know everything about the Unseen. Indeed, in this verse Allah had instructed him to tell his followers directly that he did not have such knowledge.
Indeed, the Prophet (peace be upon him) did not even know everything that was going to happen to him during the course of his life. He knew only some of these things what Allah chose to reveal to him.
Allah commands him in the Qurn to convey this fact to the people: Say (O Muhammad): I do not possess for myself any benefit or harm except what Allah wills. If I had known the Unseen, I would have brought on for myself a lot of good and nothing evil would ever befall me. I am but a giver of warnings and of glad tidings for a people who believe. [Srah al-A`rf: 188]
This should become all the more obvious to us when we study the Prophets biography. From the events of His life, we can clearly see that he had no knowledge of the Unseen except what Allah had revealed to him. How often did he and his Companions suffer from misfortune and adversity? If he had known the Unseen, he would have avoided these hardships and would have protected his Companions from them. If a person were to look for examples of such misfortunes from the Prophets biography, he would find that indeed almost all his biography is a series of trials and hardships.
Some deviant people who wish to attribute to themselves and others the ability to know the Unseen, cite certain spurious evidence from the Sunnah to support the idea that the Prophet (peace be upon him) and others can possess such knowledge.
They like to cite the hadth attributed to Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (peace be upon him) supposedly said: Allah raised up the world for me so I could look upon it and see what will exist on it until the Day of Judgment just as I see the palm of my hand. Allah has made it as clear for me as it was for the Prophets before me.
This is a spurious hadth.1 It is wrong to even attribute this statement to the Prophet (peace be upon him), let alone use it to prove a point that is in direct contradiction to the Qurn.
Another hadth that they often cite is a statement attributed to the Companion Ab Dharr al-Ghifr, whereby he is to have said: Muhammad (peace be upon him) had left us in the following state: that there was not even a bird in the sky flapping its wings without his having already imparted to us knowledge about it.
There is disagreement about its chain of transmission.2 However, the pertinent question here is: What does the hadth mean?
In his book entitled Gharb al-Hadth, al-Khattb explains the hadth as saying that the Prophet (peace be upon him) completely and thoroughly expounded on Islam so that nothing remained ambiguous. He even explained to them all the rulings related to birds what of them is lawful and what is unlawful, how they should be slaughtered, what a pilgrim must pay if he kills one during the Hajj, and so forth. [Gharb al-Hadth (2/287)]
We know that this is certainly what Ab Dharr had meant, because al-Tabarn relates the hadth with the following wording:
Ab Dharr said: Allahs Messenger (peace be upon him) had left us in the following state: that there was not even a bird flapping its wings in the air without his having already imparted to us knowledge about it. Then he said (peace be upon him): Nothing remains that brings you closer to Paradise or further from the Hellfire except that it has been explained to you. [al-Mu`jam al-Kabr (2/155-156)]
This more complete narration of the hadth makes it clear that what the Companions had learned about birds was in relation to the Islamic rulings about them. They were not given a full categorization of bird species or told what was going to happen to each and every one of them until the Day of Judgment. No rational person would even entertain such an absurd idea.
After the unambiguous and indisputable evidence from the Qurn and Sunnah that only Allah has knowledge of the Unseen, is it right for someone to bring forth spurious and inconclusive evidence to the contrary? Such is the conduct of people in whose heart is a disease.
Allah says: He is the one who revealed to you the Book. In it are clear verses they are the basis of the Book and others that are allegorical. As for those in whose heart is a disease, they seek after what is allegorical seeking discord and seeking their own interpretation. No one knows their interpretation save Allah; and those who are firm in knowledge say: We believe in it. It is all from our Lord. None will take heed except people of understanding. [Srah Al `Imrn: 7]
_____________________________________
1. This hadth is mentioned by al-Qastalln in his book al-Mawhib al-Ladunniyah (3/559) in which he quotes it from al-Tabarn. Al-Tabarn mentions this hadth in al-Mu`jam al-Kabr, as mentioned by al-Haytham in Majma` al-Zawid (8/287) and by Ab Nu`aym in Hilyat al-Awliy (6/101). Na`m b. Hammd relates the same hadth in al-Fitan, (1/27 No. 2).
All these narration are through Sa`d b. Sinn through Ab al-Zhiriyah through Kuthayr b. Murrah from Ibn `Umar. Ibn Hajr, in ,em>al-Taqrb (No. 2333), classifies Sa`d b. Sinn al-Hums as: someone to be abandoned. Al-Draqutn and others have accused him of fabricating hadth.
For this reason, we fund that al-Haytham, when he records this hadth, takes pains to mention how severely weak Sa`d b. Sinn is as a narrator. [Majma` al-Zawid (8/287)]
______________________________________
2. This hadth is related by Ahmad in his Musnad (21361,21439, and 21440), al-Tabarni in al-Mu`jam al-Kabr (2/155-156 No. 1647), Ibn Hibbn in his Sahh (No. 65), and others.
According to al-Draqutrn, it is narrated by Mundhir al-Thawr with an incomplete chain of transmission from Ab Dharr. Though its incompleteness is sufficient for the hadth to be weak, there are other narrations that support its meaning and lend credence to it.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
thank you sir! that was great
Pakistani1947 said:
thank you sir! that was great
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
Government of Pakistan (Religion minister) and chief Justice should take action of anti Islam activities which are ruined image of Islam. Islam never allowed any person to use abusive language. I strongly recommend these kind of gathering should band in Pakistan which manipulating illiterate innocent people
Government of Pakistan (Religion minister) and chief Justice should take action of anti Islam activities which are ruined image of Islam. Islam never allowed any person to use abusive language. I strongly recommend these kind of gathering should band in Pakistan which manipulating illiterate innocent people
Re: Bagairat Log Perfect place to test WMD.All I can say is
Government of Pakistan (Religion minister) and chief Justice should take action of anti Islam activities which are ruined image of Islam. Islam never allowed any person to use abusive language. I strongly recommend these kind of gathering should band in Pakistan which manipulating illiterate innocent people
Government of Pakistan (Religion minister) and chief Justice should take action of anti Islam activities which are ruined image of Islam. Islam never allowed any person to use abusive language. I strongly recommend these kind of gathering should band in Pakistan which manipulating illiterate innocent people
