BrassTacks: Siyasat Aur Pakistan- The Mumbai Fraud Exposed

[Guest]

I saw this program on youtube and was looking for a place to post. It really is ridicuolous journalism. the whole world is pointing fingers to pakistan. there's solid proof and now, even pak govt is catching Let - Dawa groups.... you guys still think that mumbai bombing was fraud and it was all drama ? seriously, come out of the well, you all are in and open your eyes.
Pakistan is on the border of collapse, because of all this terrorism and you still support their cause. killing innocent people with a stupid war called Jihad, - what do anybody get out of this?
grow up dear pakistanis/


This is from your newspaper dawn: http://www.dawn.com/2008/12/09/top4.htm



Operation continues against LeT-Dawa


By Syed Irfan Raza


ISLAMABAD, Dec 8: The government launched on Monday a countrywide crackdown on the banned jihadi outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba and charity organisation Jamaatud Dawa.

Over two dozen people, including top Lashkar commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi wanted by India in connection with the Mumbai carnage, have been arrested.

The operation, which was started in Muzaffarbad on Sunday, will continue and officials expect more arrests in coming days.

The operation is going on in Muzaffarbad and some other parts of the country and some arrests have been made, including a top man of Lashkar, Inter-Services Public Relations Director General Maj-Gen Athar Abbas told Dawn.

We do not want to go into details of the operation because of certain reasons and sensitivity of the matter, he said.

Responding to a question, he said: It is an intelligence-led operation in which not only army but all civil security agencies are taking part.

Asked if the operation was conducted against the backdrop of the Mumbai tragedy and pressure from India and the United States, the spokesman said: It is quite premature to establish links of the arrested persons with the Mumbai terrorist attacks.

Answering another question, Gen Abbas said there was no timeframe for the operation and it will continue across the country till the desired results were achieved.

Meanwhile, the Punjab Police have ordered the sealing of all offices of Lashkar and Dawa. Raids have been conducted in many parts of the country, including Islamabad.

A senior security official, who didnt want to be named, confirmed that Lashkar commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi had been arrested in the Muzaffarabad raid on Sunday night. Lakhvi is one of the suspects wanted by India in connection with the Mumbai rampage.

The strongest-ever action taken against the two outfits indicates that it is aimed at pacifying India and the US which have been calling for tough action against them.

A senior security official said that the operation in Muzaffarabad city suburbs against Lashkar-i-Taiba continued on Monday.

Jamaatud Dawa is not among the 12 organisations banned in Pakistan but it is an offshoot of Lashkar and is on the watch list.

 

[Guest]

You put alot of affort to prove this indian drama. Just an eye opener for you to look into past cases of maly gaun, attack on indain parliment and samjhota express. Intially india point his fingers to pakistan, even in some cases they provided pics and names of the so called terrorist but what was the result of indian investigation later. What happened to 4 people who were charged for attacking indian parliment, they all were freed later bcz indian were not able to prove allegations. In samjohta express indain extemist hindu col and hindu fundamentalist is involved. this is not proved by pakistan, india it self has prooved. There is alot of stuff that i can write but it will be better if you can think about your house and let us to think about our house. Blame game naver benefits. Be positive, get cool down and then let ur institutions investigate it thoroughly and then indain gov. can work with pakistani gov. to resolve the issue but media is just creating a situation which is creating negative impact on both sides.

Thanks

Dear Anchor,
If you are reading this I hope you wont ignore if you call yourself an honest professional or you are just a pathetic show puppet on camera. Its time you better proved so switch on that camera and respond with evidence. Your story says sources. I am sure those are fake and made up. And if you cant prove like Indians have after the confession by captured Pakistani terrorist. You can ignore like a moron then I will know you are baseless and hollow and hiding some where in shame. At least I will know how small minded you are if you dont respond and come on the channel again.

All the information and facts are collected from wikipedia.com which is not banned in Pakistan so dont deny the info there by challenging Wikipedia facts and sources.

Why Pakistan govt has allowed this guy in your country when pak media point fingers on India for corruption and raising violence. What a two faced debate will small mentality. Pak media living in a small box called ignorant Pak.
PASSPORT A-333602 4 June 1985 BOMBAY (India)
PASSPORT M110522 13 November 1978 (India)
PASSPORT R841697 26 November 1981 (India)
PASSPORT F823692 (JEDDAH) 2 September 1989 (Yemen)
PASSPORT A501801 (BOMBAY) 26 July 1985 (India)
PASSPORT K560098 (BOMBAY) 30 July 1975 (India)
PASSPORT V57865 (BOMBAY) 3 October 1983
PASSPORT P537849 (BOMBAY) 30 July 1979
PASSPORT A717288 (MISUSE) 18 August 1985 (United Arab Emirates)
PASSPORT K560098 (MISUSE) 30 July 1975 (India)
PASSPORT G866537 (MISUSE) 12 August 1991 (Pakistan)
His last passport made in Pakistan. Very interesting. He does not need to go anywhere now. Dawood is back in arms of PAPA ISI. iNFO FROM INTERPOL.COM
Haha.. Yes I did my homework
Ibrahim is married to Zubeena Zareen (Mehajabeen). His daughter is married to Junaid Miandad, the son of Javed Miandad who is a former Pakistan Cricket Team captain.
According to Intelligence Agencies, Dawood, who masterminded the 1993 serial blasts in Mumbai, has been routing funds to SIMI through an aeronautical engineer, C A M Basheer, from Kerala.

Believed to be SIMIs chief fundraiser, Basheer, who looked after the operations of the banned outfit in Kerala, is now hiding in Saudi Arabia. He is channeling funds through his network to about fifty SIMI terrorist outfits in India

Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has taken Don Dawood Ibrahim into custody, along with his trusted lieutenant Chhota Shakeel and the mastermind of the 1993 Mumbai blasts, Tiger Memon. However, the Pakistan authorities deny any knowledge of the arrests. Where is he? The past few years have seen a dramatic decline in Dawood's fortunes from the heady heights of the life depicted in "Portrait of a Don" - the ground breaking expos by Ghulam Hasnain in 2001.[12]

Firstly came the death of Sharad Shetty, Dawood's financier and long term confidant, an assassination carried out by Dawood's long time rival Chotta Rajan. News media outlets reported the murder as a sign of a dramatic shift of power between the crimelords.[13] This was the seminal event in a series of blows to his criminal empire from which Dawood has never fully recovered. The loss of Shetty was followed by the declaration by the United States Treasury Department declaring Dawood a global terrorist because of his links with Osama bin Laden.[14].[14] Dawood then lost one of his closest aides, Shoib Khan in 2005,[14] a hit for which there was no retaliatory blood-letting, for which Dawood had gained infamy during the peak of his influence.

Dawood Ibrahim, the son of a police constable Ibrahim Kaskar, was born in Ratnagiri in the Indian state of Maharashtra on December 25, 1955.[5] He is of Konkani descent.[6] He is said to have begun his career in Bombay working for the Karim Lala gang exploiting the rapid expansion in the Bombay (now Mumbai) textiles industry to his advantage.[5] He soon moved his residence to Dubai in the United Arab Emirates where he has business interests alongside India and Pakistan. His career developed in the Persian Gulf states and in the side streets of Nagpada and Dongri in Bombay. His brothers and Anees Ibrahim & Chetan gaidhane are believed to be his key aides.
The 1993 Mumbai blasts were organized by Dawood Ibrahim under pressure from the Inter-Services Intelligence of Pakistan. The ISI, which controlled the shipping routes from the Gulf to India's west coast, demanded that the mafia transport weapons and explosives into India in return for the use of Pakistani waters, the sources said quoting official information.

The Mumbai underworld's financial interests were under pressure as gold prices had crashed and the smuggling routes between the Gulf nations and the western coast of India had come under ISI control. The ISI contacted Dawood through two Pakistani smugglers, who told him the conditions for allowing him to continue smuggling activities. Initially Dawood resisted, but after the communal riots in Mumbai in 1992-93 he endorsed the idea of the blasts in the second week of January 1993. The explosives arrived within a fortnight and the blasts carried out on March 12, 1993. The ISI even now continues to use Dawood's group -- known as the D-company -- to further it anti-India activities, the sources said.

The ISI also used the hawala channels used by D-company for financing illegal activities in India.

Dubai-based Dawood associates and a suspected ISI agent used these channels to send fake currency to India through unsuspecting Indian expatriates.

The channels, the sources said, were also being used to fund contract killers, agents, informers, police and jail officials, besides to compensate the families of their associates killed by the police.

Pakistan gave asylum to Dawood after the 1993 blasts. Besides Pakistan, the underworld don has investments in at least 15 large firms and offices in Europe, Africa, the UAE, Southeast Asia. He also has benami properties in India.

WHAT WAS HE DOING IN YOUR COUNTRY AFTER TERRORISING MUMBAI IN PAST? YOU IGNORANT PEOPLE NEED TO COME OUT OF BOX AND START LOOKING AROUND WHO YOUR PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING. PEOPLE LIKE DAWOOD. SHAME ON ISI.
A satellite phone recovered from two dead terrorists reportedly showed calls made to Karachi before and after the attacks commenced. THE gps CONFIRMED TO AND FRO ROUTES FROM KARACHI TO MUMBAI BACK JOURNEY PLANNER. WHO WERE THEY TALKING TO NO ONE WANTS TO KNOW? WE ALL KNOW SO STOP FOOLING AROUND LIKE BUGGERS AND LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE.
A recent investigation showed evidence that Dawood may be residing in Mali. These evidences involve a passport of Dawood Ibrahim from the state of Mali which investigators believe that he may be using now.
Can you answer and show dawoods face behind bars on your TV program if you say you follow truth I challenge you and your management to respond to this as this letter will be going around Pakistani emails for next 24 hours at a rate of 10000 emails per hour. You have time to prepare and respond if you dare to call yourself truth seeker. Shame on guys to mislead info on TV. Act responsibly for God sake.

 

[Guest]

Dear Mr. Indian, tell me how on earth a person going on such a big scale and well planned attacks, will take his passport along him so that he could be caught and recognised easilly... itne be waqoof indian hi ho sakte haen, pakistani nahi.

There are 21 radars monitoring the costal line of bombai and the distance is 500 sea miles from karachi to bombai and its amazing none of the 21 radars catches the terrorests along the way, were your forces sleeping? or perhapes watching some dirty bollywood dances on those radar screens?

Why your commandos and other forces took more than 60 hours to tackle the attackers? why did they not use some GASES available to handle the situation?

All the Drama was just like a flof and fake bollywood thriller. Why the three major officers (involved in Col. Prohet Terrorest Case) were killed imediatlly after the attacks. Dose not it show some of the Hindu Terrorests were involved in these attacks to shadow the enquiries against them?

 

[Guest]

I feel sorry for father of this terrorist Ajmal who was captured Indian security forces. This is the toughest thing any father have to go through. I don't blame his family for this attack, as no one else from this family involved in terrorist activity and working hard to survive with respect and dignity. The big culprits are Pakistani ISI, Army, Let and leaders (like Zaid Hamid) who spread venom in Pakistani young people against Indians for their own advantage. Their own children are studying in foreign schools for better education and on the other side they encourage young Pakistani to become terrorists (so called Jehadi) . These so called leaders project themselves "Masiha" of Muslims around the world. Every country has its own issues. India is a country with 1.1 billion people practicing 8 different major religions. Indian Muslims are facing same issues as Hindus and other religion groups are. Pakistan should focus on betterment of Muslims of Pakistan only. India had Muslim president and has a Sikh priminister and Kashmiri origin priministers (Indira and Rajiv Gandhi). India has many Muslim ministers too. Indian Muslims have same opportunities as other religious groups. Many of them are working in Space science, Finance and Management, IT and Communication industry. Muslims of India has freedom to speak against Indian Govt and any Govt. agencies. In contrast Pakistan's Muslims can not speak against ISI and Army. It seems that anti-India centric policy is the key to survive any Govt. agency in Pakistan. Pakistan has wasted their billions of $ foreign aid in spreading terrorist and military. India never had an ambition to increase its territory so Pakistan has nothing to worry from Indians. Pakistan should focus on right education and employment creation which is the only path to the peace and prosperity. Most importantly people of Pakistan need to come out of influence of Mullah. "Well educated Pakistani youngster can interpret and understand Quran better than non-educated (or madresa educated) Mullah.". The real problem of radicalism in Pakistan is wrong interpretation of Holy Quaran, which is beyond doubt, teaches peace and harmony. FIRST STEP TOWARDS REMEDY OF ANY DESEASE IS ACCEPTANCE OF THAT DESEASE". God bless India and Pakistan.

 

[indian]

to the unbiased readers

Hi to the unbiased readers,
Throughout this debate, the biggest mistake that the Pak media has made in presenting this episode ( maybe intentionally) is - presenting India to be blaming Pak. but friends, India has just informed Pak that the terrorists are ur citizens, and as u had promised, kindly take action against them. India never alleged the Pak Govt. for the attacks, so why are u making it dat way? Or do u consider urself and Laskar-e-Taiba to be one and d same??
The Indian Army is not planning to invade Pak , instead its just preparing to strike the terrorist camps, in case Pakistan fails to fulfill the promise it made. (the promise was to not let its ground be used for anti-Indian activities and support India in any such case)

 

[Adeel786]

Re: to the unbiased readers

Hi to the unbiased readers,
Throughout this debate, the biggest mistake that the Pak media has made in presenting this episode ( maybe intentionally) is - presenting India to be blaming Pak. but friends, India has just informed Pak that the terrorists are ur citizens, and as u had promised, kindly take action against them. India never alleged the Pak Govt. for the attacks, so why are u making it dat way? Or do u consider urself and Laskar-e-Taiba to be one and d same??
The Indian Army is not planning to invade Pak , instead its just preparing to strike the terrorist camps, in case Pakistan fails to fulfill the promise it made. (the promise was to not let its ground be used for anti-Indian activities and support India in any such case)

India has not provided any official proof yet. You can't just order us to do whatever you like.
We can point out a terrorist organization (out of 100s in your country) and use it as an excuse to invade your country.

How about give us some proofs and we will go from there.

 

[dukelondon]

Zaid Hamid is a mouthpiece of the ISI

AoA brothers and sisters,

I've got some observations about Zaid Hamid that I would like to share with you guys, esp the lovers of Zaid Hamid.

1. Soon after the attacks in Mumbai, Zaid Hamid appeared in a televsion show. During the show, a photo of the guy caught alive by the police in
Mumbai was shown on a projector. Zaid commented that he was sure that the guy in Indian custody didnt look like a muslim from his face and he
was a Hindu. At the point , I was wondering how in the world could Zaid tell just by looking at someone's face that he is a Muslim or Hindu.
(Keep in mind that I'm not referring to the fact that guy was wearing an orange band on his right wrist implying that he was Hindu as Zaid
didnt call him hindu because of the band). But now after this False Prophet controversy, I know how Zaid could tell from a guy's face
whether hes Muslim or Hindu. ...... its because of divine knowledge from his false prohet. :mrgreen:

2. Another thing I've noticed about Zaid is that he is very intolerant of the views of other guests whenever he's invited to a televsion show. He always wants to impose his extremist ideology and thoughts on everyone. (If you dont believe me, watch all the shows in which he has been invited and observe carefully keeping the point that I've mentioned in mind)

3. Thirdly, he is clearly a warmonger and always talks about taking a potential war with India to Panipat :mrgreen: without remembering where the war actually came to, back in 1971. This man is obcessed with war like a child is obcessed with his toys without realizing what war actually means.

4. Zaid Hamid is an active and loyal member of the ISI. He defends the ISI and Army in every single debate. He doesn't even accept the fact that the ISI and Pakistan army, with the help of American CIA, trained the very same people who are today causing havoc in Pakistan and are shedding innocent blood and blowing up schools and barber shops in the name of Islam. He sees no terrorsim or extremism in Pakistan. (More than 200 schools have been bombed and destroyed by extremists during the last few years and earlier this month, a barber and his two sons were beheaded)

Conclusion:

Zaid hamid is a big idiot and a mouthpiece of the ISI and the the people who are loving and following him are immature emotional fools.

Wake up guys!!! Dont even compare Zaid Hamid with a great leader like Imran Khan.

Note: Please read this post atleast thrice in its entirety with an open mind and prepare points to disprove what I've written, based on facts and only then post a reply.

 

[sher_khan]

To all the Indian agenda backed users of this website:

I hope you are getting compensated well by the Indian government (or whatever other hindu extremist organization you belong to). You guys do spend a lot of time posting your opinions.

I hope you are not dalits and get compensated in money. From what I have seen, dalits are piad off through barter system (that is, they are not compensated for their work in money but through food and other items). In many cases even their barter compensation is not enough and they have to feed on rats. Yes you read it right. Rats!!!!

There are 160 millions of these unfortunate people in India. The only thing that the Indian government spends on them is words. Needless to say some of these people are very upset at the governing hands of India.

Don't believe me? Go to the links listed below:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc7iiFPDbDc[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leUEtR7ZUWk&feature=related[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiLFVuosdm4&feature=related[/video]

 

[indian]

Sher Khan wrote:
"To all the Indian agenda backed users of this website:

I hope you are getting compensated well by the Indian government (or whatever other hindu extremist organization you belong to). You guys do spend a lot of time posting your opinions.

I hope you are not dalits and get compensated in money. From what I have seen, dalits are piad off through barter system (that is, they are not compensated for their work in money but through food and other items). In many cases even their barter compensation is not enough and they have to feed on rats. Yes you read it right. Rats!!!!

There are 160 millions of these unfortunate people in India. The only thing that the Indian government spends on them is words. Needless to say some of these people are very upset at the governing hands of India."

MR. SHER KHAN I also HOPE you are not the character from 'The Jungle Book'. By adding 'I Hope..' to every statement you made, you urself create a doubt about the credibility.

By the way, Yes, we proudly spend our time, knowledge & energy to defend our motherland.
1) You , by mentioning the term 'compensation' have indicated that you dont understand what patriotism is and you do post here for money.
The indian Govt. is not a fool to pay people for online debate forums, which dont bring about much changes.
2) By mentioning 'Hindu extremist org' you have displayd your hatred/dislike towards Hindus. let me remind you, this topic didn't concern religion.
3) And by giving irrelevant videos , you have showed your failure to give a good response.

So try not to divert from the topic...
And my advice to you - think before you think, then think before you type, and think again before you post.
Thats it !!

 

[sher_khan]

Indian wrote:

MR. SHER KHAN I also HOPE you are not the character from 'The Jungle Book'. By adding 'I Hope..' to every statement you made, you urself create a doubt about the credibility.

By the way, Yes, we proudly spend our time, knowledge & energy to defend our motherland.
1) You , by mentioning the term 'compensation' have indicated that you dont understand what patriotism is and you do post here for money.
The indian Govt. is not a fool to pay people for online debate forums, which dont bring about much changes.
2) By mentioning 'Hindu extremist org' you have displayd your hatred/dislike towards Hindus. let me remind you, this topic didn't concern religion.
3) And by giving irrelevant videos , you have showed your failure to give a good response.

So try not to divert from the topic...
And my advice to you - think before you think, then think before you type, and think again before you post.
Thats it !!

Hi Indian:


Unfortunately, I am no work of fiction. I actually exist. Its evident that Indians are very fond of fictitious entities since they believe in their non-existing secularism and their imaginary biggest democracy. Sorry to disappoint you.


I understand what patriotism means. But I understand blind patriotism even better. This is a kind of patriotism which is depicted by the nave patriots. Instead of identifying and resolving their internal problems these nave patriots hide their problems under a rug of ignorance and start to blame the outsiders for their country's short -comings. And you sir/madam are no better than a nave patriot.


It is now evident through your Indian foreign minister that Indias Mumbai investigation is a work-in-progress and evidences are currently being gathered by the Indian authorities and will be shared with other agencies only upon the completion of the investigation. Hence the Indian authorities demands for Pakistan were purely based on their ambitious plans, were a work of fiction and premature. The readiness of whatever evidence the Indians currently hold can be determined by the fact that the Indians are yet to share it with the Interpol. Perhaps it would have been better if the Indians, instead of beating the drums of the demands rhetoric, had shared whatever information they had with the Pakistanis. The culprits must have mobilized themselves by now by changing their locations (assuming if they were from Pakistan). But the sharing of information would have given fruitful results of identifying the culprits. This would have gone against the Indian agenda and ambitions. Hence the sharing of info never happened and will not happen.


By the way, Indian government does help the media financially when they allow the media to perform war mongering and allows the channels to boost their ratings by spreading misinformation about the Pakistanis and the possibility of war. Especially when they are quoting the anonymous Indian government officers as the source of the news. By the way since you are an Indian may be you can tell me tabouthhe major stakeholders of the most popular Indian news networks. Who are they?


Also, this siasat debate forum will bring changes. Do you know how? For every single video that I am posting here, which covers the Indian atrocities over its helpless minorities, regardless if they are the Hindu minorities or the non-Hindu ones, I am forwarding a copy to journalists in North America. I dont know if my steps will be helpful to these poor minorities or if the true face of the hypocrite India will be ever unveiled, but its definitely worth the effort if even a single persons point of view changes.


If you noticed, I used the words Hindu extremists. I could have just used Hindus. But I chose not to. Presenting the fact that I dont think that all the Hindus are extremists. Unlike Indians use of language, I dont use a name of the community and adding extremist to the name of the community synonymously. Also, the moderate Hindus have to stand up against their medias war rhetoric. They cant be just the spectators of the war mongering being carried out by the BJP, AB and the Indian foreign minister. Perhaps the moderate Hindus can tell the above mentioned parties that BJP did not want to have a war when it was a governing party itself.


Furthermore, the purpose of this video was to point out the fact that India has unhappy groups of people, which are millions in numbers. The knee jerk reaction of the Indian government and its immature media to blame Pakistanis for the unfortunate Indian incidents is unjustified. When such a large number of people are hurt by the Indian law enforcing, legislative and judicial institutions on a daily basis they can hurt back the other Indians in order to get their rights and dignity which are promised to them by there so called secular and democratic system. Hence the video is very relevant.


However, your lack of analytical ability did not allow you to reach to an obvious conclusion on the relevance of the video. You should improve your analytical skills prior to forwarding any advices to other people on how to think. But then you come from India. Its a country which advises other countries to follow its ineffective democracy and practice its non-credible secularism.

Sher Khan

 

[niazi]

Interesting zaid hamid is the mouth piece of ISI,I wish it could be true,because he is truly a good muslim and knows that what he is analysing is right,he has courage ,and he is the one who exposes the preplanned drama of coward indians.indians who think they a patriotic in saying pakistan did this, are foolish people they are going to be used by israel and will be destroyed badly by muslims inshallah.

 

[indian]

TO SHER KHAN
I'm glad that you replied, so you intend to say that the terrorist attacks were carried out by unhappy people who have been treated badly???
Those people hardly can make their ends meet, and ou say that they managed to get rifles,grenades,GPS systems, credit cards,etc. :lol:
Dont interlink terrorist attacks with internal problems.
You too represent a naive patriot , as you seem very busy pointing out the faults in Indian society and mailing the vids to forein journalists, I THANK You for this kind gesture and helping us in getting help. But, instead you ought to look into probs of ur own country which are far worse than those of India. I wouldn't waste my time searching and postind the videos showing pak's shortcomings as we are interested only in developing ourselves and have left the job of developing pak to you people , since 1947. please do it well, afterall we were separated by the British policy(also Jinnah's greed) to divide the unified India, (pre1947 one) which would have been too strong for the world powers.

There's privatisation and globalisation in India, so the pvt companies are much richer than those owned by govt. There isn't any question of govt paying the channels as the channels owned by govt are in a bad state themselves(bad as compared to pvt channels in terms of TRP). so don't cook up sth or else provide proofs. similarly ,as I have mentioned at the beginning, u said that the dis-satisfied people MIGHT BE behind these attacks, you are using 'might be'. be sure or dont cook up theories. in my next post i'll clear all he allegations on this forum and provide enough clarifications. see ya.,..

 

[sher_khan]

TO SHER KHAN
I'm glad that you replied, so you intend to say that the terrorist attacks were carried out by unhappy people who have been treated badly???
Those people hardly can make their ends meet, and ou say that they managed to get rifles,grenades,GPS systems, credit cards,etc.
Dont interlink terrorist attacks with internal problems.

:lol: :lol: Well done. Just embrace India's sorry state of affairs . Blame everything on the outsiders. Don't worry about the helpless people in India. BTW are you aware of the fact that an engineer was beaten up to death by a group of Dalit people, for not making a donation for Dalits' leader birthday? Apparently, they have started to hit back. Try to pay attention to what's going on around you. It helps. ;)
A word of advice. May be look into your vote-bank oriented politicians. Who would help anyone and embrace any means to obtain elections seats.

You too represent a naive patriot , as you seem very busy pointing out the faults in Indian society and mailing the vids to forein journalists, I THANK You for this kind gesture and helping us in getting help. But, instead you ought to look into probs of ur own country which are far worse than those of India. I wouldn't waste my time searching and postind the videos showing pak's shortcomings as we are interested only in developing ourselves and have left the job of developing pak to you people , since 1947. please do it well, afterall we were separated by the British policy(also Jinnah's greed) to divide the unified India, (pre1947 one) which would have been too strong for the world powers.

Spoken like a true Indian. Never help your own helpless people. Always expect help from the outsiders. Let the foreigners take care of the resourceless people of your country.

Jinnah divided India because he was aware of the fact that Gandhi's Hindu theory driven ideology will find another subject of hatred after the Brits leave the sub-continent. Most of Gandhi's cultural benchmarks were Hindu literature driven along with the Christian ideologies. Gandhi knew how to market himself and his cause. The Christian ideologies helped him getting popular with the west.

Jinnah was absolutely right about the Hindu nationalism finding a new object to channel its hatred after 1947. Read the Sucher Report. A research performed by the Indians about the atrocities performed by the Indians on Muslims. It covers the hurdles that are put in the way of Muslims so that they don't prosper. Needless to say Hindu nationalists don't treat Christians well either. Apparently, at least 6 of the Indian states have anti-conversion laws. Dalits who convert to Christianity and other Christians find themselves at the receiving end of the atrocities.
We (Pakistanis) are looking into our problems as well. Step by step. Piece by piece. In many cases we have improved over you. For example, our media rather tell the truth and get kicked off the air instead of becoming the right hand of the government, which is the case with the Indian media.

There's privatisation and globalisation in India, so the pvt companies are much richer than those owned by govt. There isn't any question of govt paying the channels as the channels owned by govt are in a bad state themselves(bad as compared to pvt channels in terms of TRP). so don't cook up sth or else provide proofs. similarly ,as I have mentioned at the beginning, u said that the dis-satisfied people MIGHT BE behind these attacks, you are using 'might be'. be sure or dont cook up theories. in my next post i'll clear all he allegations on this forum and provide enough clarifications. see ya.,..

Who owns these private channels? You did not answer the question in my previous post. Have you ever heard of Fox News or SKY News? Owned privately by Rupert Murdoch? These channels were mouthpieces of American and British governments, respectively. Do your research, prior to reaching any conclusions.

You are advising me to provide proofs :lol: :lol: :lol: You belong to the country which pointed its fingers on the neighbouring country within 2 hours of the Mumbai attacks. Meanwhile as of today no evidence has been provided to even the Interpol. Any updates on the evidence? ;)

If having millions of telemarketing jobs serving the north Americans, with a ridiculous accent, is the definition of globalization and development then yes India is pursuing development. 40% of the Indians make less than a dollar per day. Of course the unfortunate dalits are included. The only Indian manufactured product that I can think of in North America is towels. The towels with never ending lint. Also, the world's cheapest car was very heavily advertised by Tata. Whatever happened to it? How many units have been sold? Or when the sale will start? It seems that similar to their democracy and secularism, Indians are very good at the advertising but very ineffective in execution.

I await your post, which you claim will provide clarifications. I highly doubt it. While you are doing the research, remember, just because you are an Indian you don't have to be false. ;)

P.S. Watch the video posting on Dec 31/08 by Adeel. It's called, "Documentary which was banned in India." It speaks volumes of Indian development.

 

[indian]

1) Yes , The West helped popularise Gandhi as he was beneficial to them, but that doesnt make him a follower of Hindu ideology. He was the one who increased Jinnah's importance in the Congress, he favoured Muslims, and he declared Bhagat Singh, And other freedom fighters to be misguided souls, and it was he who urged Indian soldiers to fight on British side in the World War. That makes him anti national to both the 'kaums' of pre-independence India. So he isnt a Hindu ideologist.

2) the cheapest car (INR 100,000) by TATA. Dear bro , you ought to have done your resarch before questioning it. For ur kind info, that car will be launched in mid 2009, and is under tests now. it isnt in the market yet, so no ques of its sales .

3)India , as you say, hasnt provided any proofs officially, similarly the govt didnt blame pak officialy within two hours. it was the channels, and mind you the channels blamed pak after 2 days, not 2 hours. and if we are to consider TV channels' blames , then why not consider the proofs shown on TV? (details in my awaited post).

4) i have watched the video already 'the one banned in India'. how do u call it banned in India? u see, i watched it, no cenor on Indian internet servors, now if the DD National channel doesn't air al documentaries,they are not called as banned, the title is given just to attract attention. and you dont judge the whole nation by a acts of ltd people. wat answer do u have bout the Godhra??? surely the aftermath isnt justified.

 

[sher_khan]

1) Yes , The West helped popularise Gandhi as he was beneficial to them, but that doesnt make him a follower of Hindu ideology. He was the one who increased Jinnah's importance in the Congress, he favoured Muslims, and he declared Bhagat Singh, And other freedom fighters to be misguided souls, and it was he who urged Indian soldiers to fight on British side in the World War. That makes him anti national to both the 'kaums' of pre-independence India. So he isnt a Hindu ideologist.

2) the cheapest car (INR 100,000) by TATA. Dear bro , you ought to have done your resarch before questioning it. For ur kind info, that car will be launched in mid 2009, and is under tests now. it isnt in the market yet, so no ques of its sales .

3)India , as you say, hasnt provided any proofs officially, similarly the govt didnt blame pak officialy within two hours. it was the channels, and mind you the channels blamed pak after 2 days, not 2 hours. and if we are to consider TV channels' blames , then why not consider the proofs shown on TV? (details in my awaited post).

4) i have watched the video already 'the one banned in India'. how do u call it banned in India? u see, i watched it, no cenor on Indian internet servors, now if the DD National channel doesn't air al documentaries,they are not called as banned, the title is given just to attract attention. and you dont judge the whole nation by a acts of ltd people. wat answer do u have bout the Godhra??? surely the aftermath isnt justified.

1) Please refer to Gandhi's speeches. He constantly refers to Hindu benchmarks and standards. Jinnah left Congress because he wanted India to be a secular state not a Hindu one. When he saw the Hindu nationalism growing in Congress files, only at that point of me he splitted from the Congress party. He was forcefully asked by the Hindu nationalists to address Gandhi as "Mahatma Gandhi." He declined. It was mighty modest of Gandhi when he did not ask the Hindu nationalists to stop pressurizing Jinnah. ;)

2) Tata's Car - do your research. Indians are fighting over a land for a manufacturing plant of this car. As usual Indian dreams are taking longer to materialize than they expect it. The internal politics is always an obstacle. Indians always jump to yelling their great plans, without an effective execution. Much like their democracy and secularism.

3) It did not take 2 days for the Indian media to blame Pakistan. For your convenience, I am posting a clip from Star News. Pay attention on the top right corner of the screen. It says Nov 27. I have more examples like this one. Let me know if yout continue to be in a state of denial and are too lazy to find the truth by yourself.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nx6fswRCCU[/video]

4) There are lot of videos that are available on the internet. Even the ones of abusive nature, which the media institutions of India would not even dream to air. Your case that the video is available on the internet for viewing is a weak one. There are lots of brand new bollywood movies available for viewing over the internet. Although it is illegal to uppload such movies. Hence the uploading of such movies is "banned" bye Indian government. Indian government is practicing censorship, when it comes to the documentaries which expose the truth.

Furthermore, the Gujrat atrocities against the muslims were not performed by a few people. The "government" was involved. The fact that the same government and Modi got re-elected speaks volumes of Hindu terrorism and the bias of the Hindu majority in Gujrat/India.

Also you are cherry picking when you are tackling my comments. Should I assume that I was right about he issues against which you did not reply?

Sher Khan

 

[indian]

3) the news clip u posted - (star news/27nov) . listen to the news carefully, nowhere in it, pakistan has been blamed nor anything about the nationality of terrorists has been spoken. no tagline is flashed blaming pak. a mention about about the terrorists 'leaving from karachi' is there , but that doesnt sound and intend to be blaming pak. its simple info.

2)TATA CAR - Your knowledge bout this issue is a li'l old.

The manufacturing plant has already been setup and test drives been conducted. here's the vid -
road test
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtn7yRRqrKQ[/video]

the text news about lauch and manufac plant-

http://www.utvi.com/news/latest-busines ... jarat.html

4) why would the media institutions want to air the abusive videos??? u say they wont even dream to do that, why wud they even want to? they dont even know of such vids. Can u provide proof dat d video titled 'banned in India' IS actually banned.
about the allegation of the govt. being involved in post-godhra riots. India has a fair democracy, there was an independent committee set up to enquire into the matter. and it has cleared the govt of all charges.

You said i hadn't answered some points of urs. kindly let me know which points of urs u want me to answer (numbring them wud b better) .

 

[sher_khan]

3) the news clip u posted - (star news/27nov) . listen to the news carefully, nowhere in it, pakistan has been blamed nor anything about the nationality of terrorists has been spoken. no tagline is flashed blaming pak. a mention about about the terrorists 'leaving from karachi' is there , but that doesnt sound and intend to be blaming pak. its simple info.

You got to be kidding me. Your argument is so week and superficial that it is embarassing to read it. Any ways here is your PM also on the 27th, blaming his "neighbours"

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WwJ3jRU910&feature=related[/video]

2)TATA CAR - Your knowledge bout this issue is a li'l old.

The manufacturing plant has already been setup and test drives been conducted. here's the vid -
road test
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtn7yRRqrKQ[/video]

the text news about lauch and manufac plant-

http://www.utvi.com/news/latest-busines ... jarat.html

This is a private video from some dude. When is the actual thing is going to get launched? Or would it be just another Indian dream? More like Indian dream to become a true democracy and a secular state. I have to see it to believe it. See the link below. Look into the pricing strategy and release sections. Bad news for you. It's not working out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano#Release_date

4) why would the media institutions want to air the abusive videos??? u say they wont even dream to do that, why wud they even want to? they dont even know of such vids. Can u provide proof dat d video titled 'banned in India' IS actually banned.
about the allegation of the govt. being involved in post-godhra riots. India has a fair democracy, there was an independent committee set up to enquire into the matter. and it has cleared the govt of all charges.

For example, any video which contains foul language for Hindu Gods or even a Muslim God can be considered abusive. Have you ever seen such videos on Indian main stream media? Any videos on Indian Media which use abusive language against Bal Thakray? There are a bunch of them on the internet. Are you telling me that the Indian media people are not aware of them?
To tell you the truth I can't proof whether this documentary was banned or not. But the Gujrati government which banned Amir Khan's movies because of his statements against it, will never tolerate this documentary. That's a very reasonable deduction.
160M Dalitts, ever more number of muslims These minorities are at the receiving end of the Hindu atrocities. Indians make superficial and ineffective independent committees which let the mass murderers walk away. And you come up with the defence that an inquiry was made and the mater is settled? How do u guys sleep at night? Regardless of what ever community you guys belong to, don't you care about justice. As far as your demoracy and secularism are concerned, wasn't the caste system legally abolished a long time a go in India? Are not Dalits still at receiving end of the human right violations? Once again. How do you sleep at night?

You said i hadn't answered some points of urs. kindly let me know which points of urs u want me to answer (numbring them wud b better)

Trying to avoid ssues by making other people do your work? You can read the thread of this post. You know very well the points that you have not answered. These arethe ones for which you did not have any responses.