Can Islam and Democracy Coexist?

hans

Banned
Some of the people (So called Sunni Muslim) who say that democracy has no place in Islam, what they really express is a sense that the word 'democracy' as presented in international discourse appears to be wholly owned by the West. The word itself has, for some, a nuance of cultural imperialism.



However, there is a minority that simply doesn't agree that democracy is right for Islam. "There are people who support the idea that Islam should be an emirate, that there should always be a Dictatorial rulerthe Taliban for example.You do have people who feel that autocracy is inherent to the Muslim system, and some of those people are on the violent side but some of them are not.


Self-government does have some roots in the Islamic world. Historic Muslim societies were more representative than their modern counterparts because the central state was not as powerful. I would argue that Muslim society was a society where communities had some control of their own affairs. There was more decentralization of power. The central government was mainly focusing on issues of law and order or security. There was a lot of liberty for individuals to negotiate many of the norms and rules within their own communities.


Historic mistrust of central authority, bolstered by post-colonial experiences with oppressive central governments, could spark Muslim societies to seek more participatory governments with weaker national authority. Democracy can't be imposed from the top down or from the outside. Definitely outsiders can help. They can apply pressure on dictatorial or authoritarian regimes for example in South Africa, where outside help was essential in fostering a more democratic regime. But I think we have to keep in mind we can't push democracy down the throat of anyone. If we do that it becomes a hated concept. Nobody wants to be forced to be a democratthat's a contradiction in terms.


If such change is to begin I believes that it can only happen through Islam with General People support, making the faith not only compatible but essential for the democratization of Muslim societies.



Part of the problem in societies that have adopted a more hierarchical preference is a need for cultural reform, so that they can become more in line with the Islamic values of equality, freedom of religion, and respect for the individual. Which can be related as truth that Whhabism can not cater. Whhabism contradicts or suppress People voice within its core principles. Suppress all human thoughts and desire, to a point where suppression of human vales stand at a Cross Junction. Human desire stands by cruel definition of Whhabi Mullah selective between God and Devil. That is how right now KSA is dealing its natural humane laws. A cultural change is required, and we know that can't be undertaken without appealing to more fundamental values. That's where religion comes in, where Peoples Islam comes in. It's difficult to imagine the modern West without the Reformation in Europe and it's difficult for me to see a more reformed Middle East without Islam being a big part of that.
 

ahmadalikhan

MPA (400+ posts)
Allama Iqbal is against Western type of democracy, he only believes in spiritual democracy (Islamic way of selecting Leaders as of Khilafat-e-Rashida type), he wrote first constitution as mentioned in Book: Zinda Rood supporting Rohani Jamhooriat
He mocked western democracy as in zarb-e-Kaleem verses

0.GIF

1.GIF

2.GIF
 

Baba jee

Councller (250+ posts)
Khalafat-e-Rashida mian koon see spiritual democracy thee???? Zara hummaray ilm bee be azafa ker diyan!
 

hans

Banned
Boss some one is very stupid over here ... its you or me... If you read the whole thing I am differentiating between various Sunni clan.
There is nothing to do with Shia, where did I use the word Shia, ...word Sunni is used in Generic sense. DO you get my point ..dont act stupid.

Read the whole thing and then reply, opening your mouth and barking leads to nothing but showing off your true colours. That is how Shia make fun of us.

further I would like to say sorry on behalf of my Stupid Member Mr Hardcore "Milk Man455" to all Shia members at Siasat.pk



what about ( so called shia (i dont call them muslim? sorry if you are(serious))
 
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Unicorn

Banned
In my opinion Democracy can coexist with any thing.

With my limited knowledge, the problem I see is that, majority of people believe that all the laws governing human behavior and actions have been decided by god and very little is left for human decisions.

Majority also believe that sovereignty belongs to God. This work fine if God can enforce it, Flaw that I see in this statement is when Khalifa Hans is enforcing sovereignty he is only enforcing his own.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Q:What is the ruling on democracy and taking a leadership role in parliament or other levels of the Democratic government? What is the ruling regarding voting for someone in democracy? How was the Islamic state organized, and governed in the classical times?

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Democracy is a man-made system, meaning rule by the people for the people. Thus it is contrary to Islam, because rule is for Allah, the Most High, the Almighty, and it is not permissible to give legislative rights to any human being, no matter who he is.

It says in Mawsoo’at al-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib al-Mu’aasirah (2/1066, 1067): Undoubtedly the democratic system is one of the modern forms of shirk, in terms of obedience and following, or legislation, as it denies the sovereignty of the Creator and His absolute right to issue laws, and ascribes that right to human beings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged) — you and your fathers — for which Allaah has sent down no authority. The command (or the judgment) is for none but Allaah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him (i.e. His Monotheism); that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not” [Yoosuf 12:40]​
“The decision is only for Allaah” [al-An’aam 6:57]​
End quote.

This has been discussed in detail in the answer to question no. 98134.​

Secondly:

The one who understands the true nature of the democratic system and the ruling thereon, then he nominates himself or someone else (for election) is approving of this system, and is working with it, is in grave danger, because the democratic system is contrary to Islam and approving of it and participating in it are actions that imply apostasy and being beyond the pale of Islam.​

But as for the one who nominates himself or nominates others in this system in order to join the parliament and enjoin good and forbid evil, and establish proof against them, and reduce its evil and corruption as much as he can, so that people of corruption and disbelievers in Allaah will not have free rein to spread mischief in the land and spoil people’s worldly interests and religious commitment, this is a matter that is subject to ijtihaad, according to the interests that it is hoped will be served by that.
Some scholars are even of the view that getting involved in these elections is obligatory.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about the ruling on elections, and he replied: I think that elections are obligatory; we should appoint the one who we think is good, because if the good people abstain, who will take their place? Evil people will take their place, or neutral people in whom there is neither good nor evil, but they follow everyone who makes noise. So we have no choice but to choose those who we think are fit.

If someone were to say: We chose someone but most of the parliament are not like that, We say: It does not matter. If Allaah blesses this one person and enables him to speak the truth in this parliament, he will undoubtedly have an effect. But what we need is to be sincere towards Allaah and the problem is that we rely too much on physical means and we do not listen to what Allaah says. So nominate the one who you think is good, and put your trust in Allaah. End quote.

From Liqaa’aat al-Baab al-Maftooh, no. 210​

The scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas were asked:​
Is it permissible to vote in elections and nominate people for them? Please note that our country is ruled according to something other than that which Allaah revealed?​

They replied:

It is not permissible for a Muslim to nominate himself in the hope that he can become part of a system which rules according to something other than that which Allaah has revealed and operates according to something other than the sharee’ah of Islam. It is not permissible for a Muslim to vote for him or for anyone else who will work in that government, unless the one who nominates himself or those who vote for him hope that by getting involved in that they will be able to change the system to one that operates according to the sharee’ah of Islam, and they are using this as a means to overcome the system of government, provided that the one who nominates himself will not accept any position after being elected except one that does not go against Islamic sharee’ah. End quote.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood.​
Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (23/406, 407​

They were also asked:​

As you know, here in Algeria we have what are called legislative elections. There are parties which call for Islamic rule, and there are others that do not want Islamic rule. What is the ruling on one who votes for something other than Islamic rule even though he prays?​

They replied:​

The Muslims in a country that is not governed according to Islamic sharee’ah should do their utmost and strive as much as they can to bring about rule according to Islamic sharee’ah, and they should unite in helping the party which is known will rule in accordance with Islamic sharee’ah. As for supporting one who calls for non-implementation of Islamic sharee’ah, that is not permissible, rather it may lead a person to kufr, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):​

“And so judge (you O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) among them by what Allaah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they turn you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you. And if they turn away, then know that Allaah’s Will is to punish them for some sins of theirs. And truly, most of men are Faasiqoon (rebellious and disobedient to Allaah).​
50. Do they then seek the judgement of (the days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith”​
[al-Maa'idah 5:49-50].​

Hence when Allaah stated that those who do not rule in accordance with Islamic sharee’ah are guilty of kufr, He warned against helping them or taking them as allies or close friends, and He commanded the believers to fear Him if they were truly believers. He says (interpretation of the meaning):“O you who believe! Take not as Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers) those who take your religion as a mockery and fun from among those who received the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before you, and nor from among the disbelievers; and fear Allaah if you indeed are true believers”​
[al-Maa’idah 5:57]

And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions. End quote.​
Standing Committee for Academic Research and Issuing Fatwas​
Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd al-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan​
Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (1/373).

Source: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/107166
 

sergeant

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Islam and democracy can run very smooth in a Muslim state; moreover imperialism also can run in Muslim states. Important thing is delivering of people rights. If a democracy or imperialism giving people’s basic rights like quality education free for all at all level, medication free for all, electric city, gas, clean water, communication facilities for all people. Job opportunities for all on merit basis, industrialization to combat unemployment. Law and order implementation at all level, free and speedy justice. Then who will reject democracy or imperialism.
Important thing is people basic rights……..
 

EniGma90

Minister (2k+ posts)
I think yes, both can co exist and as an example we have khalafat e rashda.... because all 4 khalifas ( May Allah pleased wid them) were selected by peoples and other sahbas and this is what the essence of democracy is. Selection by majority of public...
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Western form of democracy is the tool to divide and rule, under the slogan "Government of the people, by the people, for the people". This sugar quoted death pill for the unity and strength of a nation or society was invented by the Zionists and Bankers to deceive the common man and exploit him to the hilt. Have look at all the Ideal democracies in the world and show me the ratio of the parliamentarians belonging to the poor, lower middle, middle, and upper class. Tell me if the ratio of the poor and lower middle class, who are almost above 70% to 80% in every country, is above 10 to 15%?

Moreover, for a Muslim, it is the worst form of the "Shirk (Associating partners with Allah (SWT))", in which the power of legislation goes in the hands of general public, among which 70% are almost with a little or know knowledge about legislation and administration.
 

ASQR1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
In my opinion Democracy can coexist with any thing.

With my limited knowledge, the problem I see is that, majority of people believe that all the laws governing human behavior and actions have been decided by god and very little is left for human decisions.

Majority also believe that sovereignty belongs to God. This work fine if God can enforce it, Flaw that I see in this statement is when Khalifa Hans is enforcing sovereignty he is only enforcing his own.

Unicorn, u blow ur own horn by saying things that suits your taste.

Reality is different. reality is that God allowed us the freedom to choose, freedom to think and freedom to do act in a way of our conscious dictations. he has given u the books to follow, but if u choose to ignore than consequences will be your's.

In Islam, ruler is chosen by Shura, where Shura is chosen by people to represent them to the ruler, the only requirement is that the ruler and Shura must abide by the rules of Islam first and than implement them.

In any and all cases if ruler provides the needs of his people and listen to the people the way Umar Khatab R.A.T did than and only than Ruler can apply the the Islamic rules, rules such as living in a palace, driving bullet proof Mercedes as long as one person is hungry or jobless or in trouble rulers cannot go around with an entourage of 100 cars Islamic rule is only applied to yourself first and these leaders are no way liked by common man as they live in luxury and let the people starve. and those who apply Sharia rules are not willing to apply those to themselves.

Umar Khjitab applied those rules to himself first and foremost and than all other fell into order as they saw him being the first to follow the Laws./rules.

So Mr. Unicorn learn the true facts and know that there are/were people who are one of many I am talking about. Case in point is of Scandinavian leaders, in the after hours they walk about the city mingle with people and shop for their lively hood in person. No big entourages, no security and not nose high up in the air.
 
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cefspan

Minister (2k+ posts)
what about ( so called shia (i dont call them muslim? sorry if you are(serious))

Who cares ?

If You dont consider Shia as Muslims and yourself a good Muslim , then so be it , its your fuzzy brain ....

It doesnot matter to the world and Shias what you think....

Na ap Dozakh kae Darogae , na Jannat ki hoor...................
 

cefspan

Minister (2k+ posts)
In my opinion Democracy can coexist with any thing.

With my limited knowledge, the problem I see is that, majority of people believe that all the laws governing human behavior and actions have been decided by god and very little is left for human decisions.

Majority also believe that sovereignty belongs to God. This work fine if God can enforce it, Flaw that I see in this statement is when Khalifa Hans is enforcing sovereignty he is only enforcing his own.

I hope unicorn agrees with my point ,

Mr Unicorn , Dont you think that a poor PHD professor or a well educated guy knows more regarding who should be governing as compared to a jahil wealthy man????
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Allama Iqbal is against Western type of democracy, he only believes in spiritual democracy (Islamic way of selecting Leaders as of Khilafat-e-Rashida type), he wrote first constitution as mentioned in Book: Zinda Rood supporting Rohani Jamhooriat
He mocked western democracy as in zarb-e-Kaleem verses

0.GIF

1.GIF

2.GIF

subhanAllah. jazakAllah for posting it. How true Iqbal said it decades ago, now we SEE it ourselves, we are counted not judged
 

hans

Banned
When people with strange orthodox opinion comes on to my face...
This is what I do

Aaj jaane ki zid na karo
Yunhi pehlu mein bethey raho

Haaye mar jaayein ge
Hum to lutt jaayein ge
Aisi baatein kiya na karo
Aaj jaane ki zid na karo


Tumhi socho zara
kyu'n na rokein tumhey
jaan jaati hai jab uth ke jaatey ho tum
tum ko apni qasam jaan-e-jaa'n
baat itni meri maan lo
Aaj jaane ki zid na karo


Waqt ki qaed mein zindagi hai magar
chand gharriya'n yahi hain jo aazaad hain
inko khho kar kaheen jaan-e-jaa\'n
umr bhar na tarastey raho
Aaj jaane ki zid na karo


Kitna masoom aur rangeen hai yeh sama
husn aur ishq ki aaj me\'raj hai
kal ki kis ko khabar jaan-e-jaa\'n
rok lo aaj ki raat ko
Aaj jaane ki zid na karo


 
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Malik495

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Mr hasn you started this thread with a very nonsense sentence.. you used the word ** so called sunni**which made me to reply as it is in your tone.... who the hell are you giving such labels like so called sunni? its up to me what i can think about so called shia etc..
i do believe that word democracy is not exist in islam..i can start a debate on this but dont want to,... so better to follow your ideas what you think and let me do what i believe.. in your so called democracy where a voter who even doesnt know first kalima can vote once and a muhaddis can also vote once.. they are equal infront of you but not infront of me....and dont forget the hadees of Hazrat Muhammad sallallaho ilahye wasallam ( khairu kum mann ta'allam al qurana wa allamahu) so its proved that sayings of an aalim has more superiority than anyone else.. dnt need to reply..
 
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gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Some of the people (So called Sunni Muslim) who say that democracy has no place in Islam, what they really express is a sense that the word 'democracy' as presented in international discourse appears to be wholly owned by the West. The word itself has, for some, a nuance of cultural imperialism.



.

my question is to my esteemed members. Why do we even evaluate western democracy when we know that WD is full of flaws and does not offer anything pleasant to Ummah. Do people in western democracy evaluate Islamic system? Do they even think of Khilafat or some sort?

Do they debate possible interest-free banking?....NOT... if anything they plot to subotage Islamic banking. Then why do we discuss a most of the lowest system such as democracy - hence rightfully i call it democrazy - that is demagh ki kharabi.

Western democracy very cheerfully gives you this, that is Satanic things and worldly items.

Shaitan said to Allh: Give me muhlat till qyamah. I will present vices to your people in a silver platter

Allah said: to ja! main tujhey qyamat tak muhlat deta hoon. terey bahkaway mei aney waley sey main jahannum ko bhar doonga. magar mujko manney waley tereybahlaway mein nahi aeingey

so here are only few things that western democracy cheerfully offers you:
1. Awaragi -
2. Har ami bachey. These kids become violent when become an adult because he neverknew who his dad was

3. illicit sex - causing all sorts of deadly disease - AIDS, herpes, Lord only knows what else is out there

4. Clerics who are responsible for ensuring that religious values (no matter what religion) are locked up in closets. So the Free Masons can do whatever they want to do

5. Overly independent kids. Kids even at age 11 do not pay heed to parents

6. Govt will institute laws and rules thru Social Services.

7. Using 'democrazy', unmarried people will live together w/o marriage under the same roof citing a need due to financial reasons

8. Plus a whole lot more

When people say Democracy, they mean western democracy because no body has every seen a democracy othern than a western one.

Khilafah is the best, it create peace, tranquility, economic strength, strength in the country, riba-free banking, and most importantly khilafah does not get involved in war against Allah and His Rasool pbuh
 

rolnrol

MPA (400+ posts)
H L Mencken : Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
Thomas Jefferson : A Democracy is nothing more than mob rule,where fifty-one percent of the peoplemay take away the rights of the other fourty-nine percent."
Thomas Carlyle : " I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
John Simon : " Democracy encourages the majority to decide things about which the majority is blissfully ignorant.
 

hans

Banned
Come on Man.. dont tell me all this is not common in Muslim culture...
your point 1# Awaragi ===== you mean to say there is no Awaragin Pakistan?
2 # Har ami bachey you better check this with Edhi Trust. Mr Edhi wife will tell you more on this topic.
3 # illicit sex no comments, as kids might be reading these lines too...
4 # religious heads and there problem ..... ref to any Darul Uloom.. Pakistan or USA or Canada. even n UK there are thousand of cases going on.
5 # over independent kids..... you must hate your father beating the crap out of you.... local problem, generic to personal experience.
6 #
Social Services......Don't tell me you live in Canada, and your wife is asking for Divorce.......local problem, generic to personal experience
7 # Same as Parading Naked women in Pakistani villages.... or go check www.stophonourkillings.com
8 # Plus a whole lot more...... !!! sure you are right .. Free Public voice is Number1 issue. You need to have Public voice... or else its one big Grave Yard.

my question is to my esteemed members. Why do we even evaluate western democracy when we know that WD is full of flaws and does not offer anything pleasant to Ummah. Do people in western democracy evaluate Islamic system? Do they even think of Khilafat or some sort?

Do they debate possible interest-free banking?....NOT... if anything they plot to subotage Islamic banking. Then why do we discuss a most of the lowest system such as democracy - hence rightfully i call it democrazy - that is demagh ki kharabi.

Western democracy very cheerfully gives you this, that is Satanic things and worldly items.

Shaitan said to Allh: Give me muhlat till qyamah. I will present vices to your people in a silver platter

Allah said: to ja! main tujhey qyamat tak muhlat deta hoon. terey bahkaway mei aney waley sey main jahannum ko bhar doonga. magar mujko manney waley tereybahlaway mein nahi aeingey

so here are only few things that western democracy cheerfully offers you:
1.
2. Har ami bachey. These kids become violent when become an adult because he neverknew who his dad was

3. illicit sex - causing all sorts of deadly disease - AIDS, herpes, Lord only knows what else is out there

4. Clerics who are responsible for ensuring that religious values (no matter what religion) are locked up in closets. So the Free Masons can do whatever they want to do

5. Overly independent kids. Kids even at age 11 do not pay heed to parents

6. Govt will institute laws and rules thru Social Services.

7. Using 'democrazy', unmarried people will live together w/o marriage under the same roof citing a need due to financial reasons

8. Plus a whole lot more

When people say Democracy, they mean western democracy because no body has every seen a democracy othern than a western one.

Khilafah is the best, it create peace, tranquility, economic strength, strength in the country, riba-free banking, and most importantly khilafah does not get involved in war against Allah and His Rasool pbuh