CASTE SYSTEM IN INDIA, WORSE THAN APARTHIED SITUATION.

[gazoomartian]

To all my indian members on this forum.
Spreading of knowledge should never be taken as trying to malice someone.If you think it is not fair then the first step that you guys need to take is to ask your own government to back off from holdin so called Academic discussions on Baluchistan. If you have a right to spread information so do we and every body else. If I am wrong correct me but just trying to acuse me of this or that does not serve any one's purpose.
As to the fact that 70% seats are reserved for Dalits' INCORRECT. Supreme court of india says "not more than 50%" and that too is implemented only in Rajhistan. Check your facts!
My purpose of bringing out the information is to let as many people as possible know that 72.5% population of india lives below poverty line and they are worried about helping Afghanis,does no body find it strange? I am sure that 72.5% population does not even know that their government is spending money on foreigners while leaving them to rot for themselves. And indian members on the forum claim they are doing a world of good outside of india,I must say they are careless to say the least.
as for caste system in Pakistan,that is NOT religious it is simply inherited from having lived the hindus for so many centuries that we unfortunately picked some not so good ideas. Also this is not an excuse but just an explaination,we definitly need to work on it.

well explained Sister [clap]

 

[pigeon]

To all my indian members on this forum.
Spreading of knowledge should never be taken as trying to malice someone.If you think it is not fair then the first step that you guys need to take is to ask your own government to back off from holdin so called Academic discussions on Baluchistan. If you have a right to spread information so do we and every body else. If I am wrong correct me but just trying to acuse me of this or that does not serve any one's purpose.
As to the fact that 70% seats are reserved for Dalits' INCORRECT. Supreme court of india says "not more than 50%" and that too is implemented only in Rajhistan. Check your facts!
My purpose of bringing out the information is to let as many people as possible know that 72.5% population of india lives below poverty line and they are worried about helping Afghanis,does no body find it strange? I am sure that 72.5% population does not even know that their government is spending money on foreigners while leaving them to rot for themselves. And indian members on the forum claim they are doing a world of good outside of india,I must say they are careless to say the least.
as for caste system in Pakistan,that is NOT religious it is simply inherited from having lived the hindus for so many centuries that we unfortunately picked some not so good ideas. Also this is not an excuse but just an explaination,we definitly need to work on it.

no body care about poors any where in this world.everybody have to fight for themself.

politician only do the politics of poors,thats it.

does anybody in your country care for poors,boneded labor.

you guys have customized islam according to your own conveniences.



that is good atlest you accepted 50% reservation limit in india. there is 70% because


there is always 1/3 left in any category after reservation of SC/BC/ex-sevicemen,
freedom-fighter/handicap and so on......

do you guys have courage to give any sort of reservation to poor or underprivileged section of your society.

india is not a welfare society ,there could be 90% people living under poverty...

i don't care.main thing is that country have opportunity,world class engineering,
medicine,management schools ,who have courage can got the opportunity.



you know china is world second largetst economy and largest forex reserves,militry power......
but still far behind becoming a developed country because of
disparity in population..........so as INDIA too.

 

[babadeena]

as for caste system in Pakistan,that is NOT religious it is simply inherited from having lived the hindus for so many centuries that we unfortunately picked some not so good ideas. Also this is not an excuse but just an explaination,we definitly need to work on it.

That is very encouraging that at least we have accepted that there is a problem called "caste system" in Pakistan. Of course our "religion" does not sanction this menace but unfortunately we have and we practice it, imported (as u said) from India but nourished and revived in our own society. Sixty plus years have gone, the curse is there. South Africa's example is there.
Interestingly as per Quran, first Caste system was prevalent at the time of Noah (as), and all those practicing it were drowned. The Noah's folk main fault was that they were firm of Caste System. Only "arzayloon" (lowest Class, Kamee) were saved in the Boat. All nations sprung from the seed of that "lowest Class" and are their children but even now they have adopted this menace again. Perhaps We need a "flood of Noah" to get rid of this system. "A moochi (shoe repair)'s son is going to be called moochee irrespective of the fact whether he is Engineer, PHd, MBBS Doctor or Pilot, but society will label him Moochee" This is real face of Caste system in Pakistan.

 

[Star Gazer]

"A moochi (shoe repair)'s son is going to be called moochee irrespective of the fact whether he is Engineer, PHd, MBBS Doctor or Pilot, but society will label him Moochee" This is real face of Caste system in Pakistan.[/quote]

I really do not know which part of Pakistan you are talking about! I know of so many people who are sons and daughters of people who were hard working and provided opportunities for their children and they are only respected for that,no body calls them by their father or mothers professions,that was the way of the western people especially when the Irish immigrated to USA they were supposed to use either the name of a color(Green,Brown etc),or their profession(Baker,Smith,etc) or the prefix Mc,Mac etc to identify them as of Irish origin. I have no knowledge of such things happening.If it your experinece then it must be an unfortunate exception and that happens everywhere. where do you live in Pakistan?

 

[babadeena]

I really do not know which part of Pakistan you are talking about!

Almost every where!!! To some extent less in Cities because people are not
dependent upon Zamindars (Feudals).

Sobia! it is not question of "opportunities", it is the question of "acceptance" and then
"recognition". What I have written it is 100 percent true. Unfortunately, if due to some
reasons people do not say on face, but they do it for a person who got elevated status but hails from so-called "lowest class". It is very common.
One thing more I may tell you, in Punjab, in Zamindars families their off-springs are trained to day and night say these things to the off-springs of "lowest class" to constantly and mentally torture them. These are reailities. Even Benazir Bhutto is on record saying "hari (kamee) ka bacha hari(kamee) naheen bangay toh kam keysay
chaly ga" (If the son of the lowest class is not the lowest class, then how the system will work). This is on record. In other words, the "vertical social mobility" is not acceptable.

where do you live in Pakistan?

It is does not matter. Have seen life's realities in every part of my beloved country.

 

[Guest]

@gazu&abaasiali .both naughty uncle
why r u applauding so much on sobia khala.i don,t find any thing spacial in her comment. something fishi in ur behaviour 8-) .
sobia khala, beaware of them ;)

 

[Star Gazer]

For babadeena.
Please read what I said carefully.The existense of derogatory behavior can not be denied any where in the world even in the most developed states like in Europe or USA, and I am not attempting to deny it for I would be wrong.The question is how deep it is and what are basis of such behavior. We have aunique advantage that our religion refuses it and Allah has no place for such things and this is the opportunity for us.Even if some one has to face it they can take solace in the fact that this is the work of devil.On the other hand in india they have laws against it but it remains an integral part of their religion therefore to root it out is much much harder for them. So who has a natural advantage of the situation? now if people choose to be that way then it is between them and Allah. I hope I have been able to make my point clear.

 

[Star Gazer]

@gazu&abaasiali .both naughty uncle
why r u applauding so much on sobia khala.i don,t find any thing spacial in her comment. something fishi in ur behaviour 8-) .
sobia kha.la, beaware of them ;)

I am sure if you start playing some sport and watch less indian movies your mind will become healthier

 

[Pakistani Lion]

I don't think there is any truth in the fact that the problem is pravalent in Pakistan - if it is then its more to do with in-education and borrowed values from India as its part of their religion. Our beloved religion opposes this any way shape or form and if the problem does exist it can be easily corrected with right education. My elder brother is married into a family which socially may not be percieved as "well-to-do" as they do not live in villas etc but what we looked for is how good they were morally etc. and we didn't accept any dowry from them either. I think over the years things have evolved for the better in Pakistan which is more than I can say for India and I agree with Sister Sobia on this one.

 

[Afsr]

@gazu&abaasiali .both naughty uncle
why r u applauding so much on sobia khala.i don,t find any thing spacial in her comment. something fishi in ur behaviour 8-) .
sobia khala, beaware of them ;)

Yakkkkk typical Indian mentality :roll:

 

[Bret Hawk]

First of all I would like to appreciate the author of this thread and mostly to the brilliant remarks of Baba G (Babadeena) which exposes the layers of hypocrisy and legacies of Hindu cultures in Pakistani society and no doubt what he has mentioned is very much true and portrays the exact heinous picture of our ruthless and disrespectful society towards some of its sections till this day. Here we can not relinquish ourselves by saying that since this is a prevalent universal practise and behaviour so therefore we cant do much about it. No being the advocates of Islamic teachings and the part of its divine community (Muslim Ummahs concept) we have to bring in the changes first in our attitudes and then tends to influence those to whom we have some sort of interaction and relation or else we will continued to be labelled as hypocrites and shallow preachers of that faith who themselves dont accept its spirited message in its entirety but like their predecessors (Most notably Jews & Christians) they just keep content themselves to pick & choose in their religion for their own convenience and interest.



Having said that sometimes I feel more ecstatic and moved by the underlying premises of Islamic teachings when it forbids us to have limited association with non Muslims especially the polytheists as to not get exposed from their negative approaches and practices. Subhaan Allah when I see such social illnesses of the a Muslim society then Im able to debunk the mysteries of that divine underlying message of Islam that in order to preserve the strict nous and teachings of the monotheism and the dogma of following the infallible Prophets Sunnah (Holy Practices manifested in word and deeds) one have to strictly refrain by restoring any kind of long intimate relationships with them. Therefore the issues of decrees of marrying non Muslims and restoring close friendships with them has been discouraged and the reasons are simple to not allow the amalgamation of the ideologies & practices between the two groups and to inherit the same confusion and corruption free strict dogma of the pure religion to its progeny. There is a deep reason of every teaching of Islam which has its roots in Holy Quran & the Sunnah of Prophet Salallahu Alihi Wasalam and we have to accept them no matter how much weird they look to us (Due to our half baked and shallow mentality & level of reasoning based on true knowledge).





P.S: In the matters related to social, economic and academic reforms we can learn from the non Muslims as it was the method of the early gigantic scholars of Islam and then it would be our duty to see which areas of those disciplines fall outside the parameters and spirit of Islamic Shariah and its teachings. Because knowledge & wisdom is the lost legacy of a faithful Muslim and he / she should strive to get that even from his / her adversaries (If they happen to possess them) according to the one famous Hadith of Prophet PBUH.

 

[Star Gazer]

Absolutely right to say that we can not be absolved of our responsibility and that is also what I am trying to get to when I say that it is much easier for us to root it out because it is not any part of the religion. Having said that I would like to bring your attention to the fact that if we keep whining and complaining about how things have been or are then we will not achieve anything for the future either. In my view after having accepted the presense of this evil in whatever tiny form it exists, we should discourage such behavior and encourage the positive behavior. If we condemn it too vociferously then those who practice it obviously for it is benficial to them will start to distract and make it into a political discussion which it is not.
I use comparisons because india and Pakistan have the same timeline and similarity in issues. what indians think of it is not my concern for if they want they can take as much benefit from it as we can.

 

[Jabral Tariq]

Please read a very intersting and informative article, " Western Darling, India: A True Reality Check! by Saqib M.Khan, Pakistan Think Tank, UQAAB commentator on www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/17705


,

 

[Star Gazer]

Please read a very intersting and informative article, " Western Darling, India: A True Reality Check! by Saqib M.Khan, Pakistan Think Tank, UQAAB commentator on www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/17705


,

Read that. Some one might object that we are trying to critisize the hindu religion,for them the answer is NO,we are only spreading the teachings of the religion,what people practice is not necesarily the religion. If there is something debatable in the teachings it is fine to debate it or refuse to debate it but if there is something in the teachings which goes against the human rights of any one then that should be explainable. It is fine if someone does not want to discuss it,we respect the right and expect them to respect our right to read about it and make our own decisions.Fair??

 

[babadeena]

@Sobia403,
My points have been that:
a) since Caste System is also prevalent in Pakistan (not in tiny form at all but in a magnitude form), pin pointing this menace with specific reference to India is unfortunate and her criticism on this account is not realistic.

b) while Hindu religion sanctions caste system and Indians adopt this practice which shows that they are true to their beliefs, whereas Our religion prohibits such system and we are continuing to adopt it since the last 60 years, we are then not sincere to our religion. Only profess it by our mouths and in practice we bitterly fail. Allama Iqbal says in his poetry that "sincerity (wafadari) with the condition of perpetuation is the root of Religion, if a Brahmain dies in Idol place(butkhana), then bury him in Kaba.", So according to this principle we are doomed.

c) I agree that hectic and immediate efforts are needed to build an egalitarian type society, but still to date only lip service. This is so that a particular "Tola (Group)" remains to be in power and ensuring continuation of this menace is one of this group's strategies.
In view of above and what Bret Hawk has rightly pointed out, drastic and severe measures are needed and those are not forthcoming in near future from this Tola. Therefore we cannot and we should not criticize India on this account, i suppose.

 

[abbasiali]

@gazu&abaasiali .both naughty uncle
why r u applauding so much on sobia khala.i don,t find any thing spacial in her comment. something fishi in ur behaviour 8-) .
sobia khala, beaware of them ;)

[funnny] [funnny]

 

[pigeon]

Such articles are meant to make the people of my country realize how lucky we are to have a free homeland where we can do and say as we want.





Thats 100.1 % true that you should realize that you guys are lucky to have homeland.



same way BANGLADESHI people feel lucky
that they have bangla home land with bengali as national language (not any other)


and same way

HINDU fundamentalist feels that they are lucky to have homeland where muslim fundamentalist are gone to somewhere and have HINDI as national language after
2000 years (though rich speak english,because they feel speaking hindi will let down
their CLASS)

they thank GOD if india was not partitioned ,urdu would have co-national language(of 140 crores)
(like english and french in canada) and a muslim prime minister in alternate terms
(because muslims population would have around 50 crore in united india this time.

and last but not least india retain 75% land after partition otherwise if we had partition after 2000 AD it would have 50%-50%

oh my god...........................

we are lucky very HAPPY divided..........................god bless us and you tooooooo

 

[pigeon]

i m really sorry for my indian friends
here on siasat.pk they are coming more than we do and here they tell us that caste system is their problem so we not step in.. khabtee log hai..
strange people they always think what they say and what they do is right and most of the time its not right.....sick people i may say though i m sorry for using a harsh word i never have used...
at least they dont know how to have a discussion....
man just go away.. u know really siasat.pk stinks when there are indians on it..

dear mansoor bhai,

actually indians are been paid to visit this site.let them make some money
for their living.




but one thing is sure that INDIA does not stink when

rahat fateh ali khan saab bahadur,
meera,
atif aslam
and 1000 billionaire other artist came for
fund raising functions for poor indian beggers

and rich pakistani came to india for medical treatment (instead going to UK/USA)

and gave some donation to hospital.

after refusing other rich UMMA countries who offer visa free entry and free treatment
to fellow citizens.



i thank u all brothers who let us to visit despite objections.

 

[Star Gazer]

dear mansoor bhai,
actually indians are been paid to visit this site.let them make some money
for their living.
but one thing is sure that INDIA does not stink when
rahat fateh ali khan saab bahadur,
meera,
atif aslam
and 1000 billionaire other artist came for
fund raising functions for poor indian beggers
and rich pakistani came to india for medical treatment (instead going to UK/USA)
and gave some donation to hospital.
after refusing other rich UMMA countries who offer visa free entry and free treatment
to fellow citizens.
i thank u all brothers who let us to visit despite objections.[/quote]

What about threatening Pakistani cricket players? You scared.
What about threatening Sami? poor guy had to run to Dubai.
What about Zeba Bakhtiar? Ran back to Pakistan,Home atlast.Sigh of relief.

A mature discussion should focus on the topic,but you guys are trained to derail any discussion with outrageous,irrelevant diversions.
As for your visit to the forum you are welcome, and thankyou for the information that you are paid to do it,I am sure your master/s voice is more what you convey than your own opinions.