Documentary on the Kalash people of Pakistan(Hindu kush region)

[shujauddin]

You are a Muslim. What if your children in Canadian schools were put through mandatory Christianity classes and Bible classes and taught those things are the truth and fact but not taught anything about Islam or Quran. Would you be okay with that?

Children are very impressionable and have plastic brains. Whatever you teach them whether its Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, they will most probably believe in it until they die.

This is what Pakistan govt has been doing to Kalash people. They are using their children to systematically eradicate their culture, language, religion, identity and history.

In Catholic Board which is funded by the Govt. this does happen and Christian values taught as subject. How many indigenous people in Canada, USA, Australia or Latin America are sill Pagans? next to zero they have all adopted Christianity and wear modern clothes now. The world is complex my friend. The majority rule is everywhere but in different extents !

 

[Vitamin_C]

Yes and it is one of the biggest embarrassment for Canadians in their history and they are still paying for it. They destroyed the culture, dignity and future of Native Americans. Today aboriginals are still scarred and traumatized by what Canadian Govt did to them, they are more likely to be alcohol/drug addicts, homeless and unemployed

You are living in Canada and North America you should read about their history and how Native American kids were sent to reservation schools and the history of racism in America.

Even my school teachers faces had shame and regret on them when they taught us about how the govt forced the natives children to study Christianity. When I wrote in my essay that Canada mismanaged the situation. The teacher commented on it that I was being too generous by calling it 'mismanagement'.

In Catholic Board which is funded by the Govt. this does happen and Christian values taught as subject. How many indigenous people in Canada, USA, Australia or Latin America are sill Pagans? next to zero they have all adopted Christianity and wear modern clothes now. The world is complex my friend. The majority rule is everywhere but in different extents !

 

[Vitamin_C]

You avoided my question again BTW...

So would you be okay as a Muslim parent if your young and impressionable children had to go through mandatory Bible education which indoctrinated them as a fact and only truth that Jesus Christ is son of God and he died for our sins without the option of studying Quran or Islam? Would you be okay with that?

In Catholic Board which is funded by the Govt. this does happen and Christian values taught as subject. How many indigenous people in Canada, USA, Australia or Latin America are sill Pagans? next to zero they have all adopted Christianity and wear modern clothes now. The world is complex my friend. The majority rule is everywhere but in different extents !

 

[shujauddin]

You avoided my question again BTW...

So would you be okay as a Muslim parent if your young and impressionable children had to go through mandatory Bible education which indoctrinated them as a fact and only truth that Jesus Christ is son of God and he died for our sins without the option of studying Quran or Islam? Would you be okay with that?

I have been deliberately avoiding it because if I say "No" then u will incorrectly deduce the conclusion that If A is not Ok in Country A , why is it ok in Country B?. The two situations are not equal because nobody is abducting the Kalasha kids and forcing them to study Quran in Pakistan. Please note that we do not have enough resources to make a Kalasha Curriculum for kids where they are taught separately from the mainstream. How many are there? 5000 kids in total or less? raise them as social outcasts? what are our options to accommodate them appropriately?

 

[ashfaq3164`]

amazing info

 

[shujauddin]

Also enlighten us in which other countries of the world Pagan Religion is taught at school levels. Thank you.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Okay lets set your kids aside because I dont want you to take this personally. What if the Kalash children were being put through mandatory religion indoctrination but for Catholicism and Bible instead of Islam. Would that be okay?

I already know the answer is no, the point of this thought experiment is that we have hidden biases towards things that are ours. Our religion our country our language etc. If its Islam being mandatory we are okay but if its another religion then we are not.

We should look at this situation from the shoes of Kalash parents not from our own shoes.

Its wrong to say that Islam or Christianity is superior to Pagan religion/culture. We are both ignorant of what their religion is about, no culture is better, every culture is different. Superiority complex is the basis of discrimination and racism in 20th century. We should celebrate their diversity and identity as an asset of Pakistan and give them full religious protection and freedom to practice and teach their children whatever religion they want as promised by the Pakistan's constitution and Jinnah's August 11 speech.

We do not need to design a new curriculum. There are already Kalash schools run by Kalash teachers that teach them their culture, history , language and practices in addition to science classes taught in govt schools. The get zero funding from govt, we can just support those schools and ad classes from govt schools like Geography, History of Islam and History of Pakistan in addition to history of Kalash ofcourse etc... Honestly, how much would it cost govt to fund a few dozen Kalash teachers in that valley?

Kalash are pro-Pakistani people, they take active part in Pakistani politics and there is one Kalash MPA in KP assembly. There is no threat of separatism. Especially given their low numbers. It is wrong to say that non-Muslims are not pro-Pakistan. The crown prince of the last Hindu Jagir in Pakistan is my personal friend and I can safely say that I have not met a more pro-Pakistani person than him. We went to the same school and I saw him get out of his desk and slap a Muslim student in his face infront of the teacher for insulting Pakistan. We went to an extremely strict school so that must have taken alot of guts from a young boy from a minority to do that.

We are fond of abusing minorities because of the differences between our religion. You can see people talking like that about Hindus, Shias, Ismaili, Ahmedi on this forum all the time just because their beliefs are different we generalize that they are enemies of the state. We fail to see many people in those communities would lay their lives for their country.

I have been deliberately avoiding it because if I say "No" then u will incorrectly deduce the conclusion that If A is not Ok in Country A , why is it ok in Country B?. The two situations are not equal because nobody is abducting the Kalasha kids and forcing them to study Quran in Pakistan. Please note that we do not have enough resources to make a Kalasha Curriculum for kids where they are taught separately from the mainstream. How many are there? 5000 kids in total or less? raise them as social outcasts? what are our options to accommodate them appropriately?

 

[Citizen X]

Or how bout just remove the Islamic classes. Don't have to create a whole new curriculum.

I made the mistake of putting my daughter in KG at an Indian School (Mrs Idea)for various reasons ( locality, cost, etc etc ) but then I realized it was too India centeric and had her removed.

As our religion says do on to others and you would want others do on to you and that there is no complusion in religion.

And I know Id be pretty ticked off if she was forced to learn about Christianity. So similarly I think it's not right to force anyone to be taught Islam and nor does Islam allow it.

This falls way out of the circle of preaching. Preaching is dawah i.e inviting someone to Islam. Not being forced to learn about it

 

[shujauddin]

Okay lets set your kids aside because I dont want you to take this personally. What if the Kalash children were being put through mandatory religion indoctrination but for Catholicism and Bible instead of Islam. Would that be okay?

"Indoctrination" is a very hard word for something taught as a subject. We are taught physics , chemistry and Maths as subjects in these schools and we don't say that we have been indoctrinated. This conveys as if we are forcefully taught these. The Islamiyaat in Secondary school/college etc is diluted versions and not to be confused with what is taught in a Madrasa . My objection on your idea of isolating them from the rest of the community is based on the premise " let them have the choice " and if they like islam then let them embrace islam. Stop treating them like an endangered specie born to dance in front of tourists . Please note that a lot of people shun being displayed as exotic and want to merge with the mainstream community. Gone are days of tribal dances and festivals. People have evolved and they should be giving an opportunity too !

 

[Vitamin_C]

Nobody here is talking about isolating them. We are saying dont indoctrinate them in a religion that goes against what their parents want.

If you teach them that Muslims believe Allah created the heavens and earth that is Islamic education. If you teach them it is a fact that Allah made heavens and Earth that is indoctrination, and thats what they do in Islamiat classes. You wouldn't want this for your kids but you are okay if it happens to others?

If they want to embrace Islam then they can go to a mosque on their own will and study it. Do not force it on them in the school system. This is predatory behavior by the government.

Kalash should not have Pakistani teachers, they should have teachers from their own community. Even in my school the science teachers were too busy teaching us Islam. I went to one of the best school private schools because of my privileged background and even there the physics teacher used to say big bang is bullshit one day they will realize that Allah did this.

Even our national cricket team at one point was spending more time in tableeg than training.

If you have Pakistani teachers and Islamiat classes there is no question there is indoctrination going on. You can even see it in the documentary how they are indoctrinating little kids.

"Indoctrination" is a very hard word for something taught as a subject. We are taught physics , chemistry and Maths as subjects in these schools and we don't say that we have been indoctrinated. This conveys as if we are forcefully taught these. The Islamiyaat in Secondary school/college etc is diluted versions and not to be confused with what is taught in a Madrasa . My objection on your idea of isolating them from the rest of the community is based on the premise " let them have the choice " and if they like islam then let them embrace islam. Stop treating them like an endangered specie born to dance in front of tourists . Please note that a lot of people shun being displayed as exotic and want to merge with the mainstream community. Gone are days of tribal dances and festivals. People have evolved and they should be giving an opportunity too !