Fear Hellfire and do not let your garment hanging down below the Ankle.

[kmanzar]

I have asked you that whose rational thinkings we should use to create laws?

Bror

I deliberately kept myself not answer that question formerly, because I felt that that is a huge communication gap between us on the topic of understanding basic Islamic principles and without covering this gap, any statement could let us towards misunderstanding, and lots of discussion required for filling up that communication gap.

But now as you asked it twice, let me try to explain briefly (although its not simple :))..

One important aspect (out of several) of Quran is that it provides the manifesto, higher norms addressing the social life in an Islamic system. Any system has rules, defined under constitution (Quran provides guidance for those all levels). right?, lets move ahead ...

Now, as you want to know ‘whose rational thinking we should use to create laws’?
It’s not a matter of us (as people) to make laws, we have to follow. This question is rather related to the law-makers. Okay …

In an ideal Islamic society, members of Parliament or Shura (the law making institute) should be capable enough to handle such issues under the principles of Islam; different members would discuss any specific issue, in light of Quran with rational thinking and debate, and after through debate a law could be finalized. As people we have to accept the law, or if someone find it contrary to Quranic values, that can be challenged in the Court. (this sort of ideal Islamic parliament can also be found in lectures of Allama Iqbal). So it could automatically decide within parliament that which member’s idea needs to be accepted.

Or, as we are not an ideal society, but we have an institute called ‘Council of Islamic Ideology’, supposed to be represented by top scholars among the society, having knowledge and research both in Islamic principles and having a good vision on the challenges of current world. So they can discuss and debate logically on any given issue. And so

So, I don’t know did I answer your question in proper manner or not :)

Regards

 

[Abdul Allah]

Rationale thinking can only take us astray if our intentions are not correct or our knowledge is pretty limited in that area. If you believe that words of Allah and Rasool are supreme and most authentic truths then why afraid of analyzing them rationally.

I agreed.
But Aqal dokha daiti hy na.??

Rational Reasoning could easily lead to someone to reach a point where he could say that order was for that specific time so now we can change it.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Bror

I deliberately kept myself not answer that question formerly, because I felt that that is a huge communication gap between us on the topic of understanding basic Islamic principles and without covering this gap, any statement could let us towards misunderstanding, and lots of discussion required for filling up that communication gap.

But now as you asked it twice, let me try to explain briefly (although its not simple :))..

One important aspect (out of several) of Quran is that it provides the manifesto, higher norms addressing the social life in an Islamic system. Any system has rules, defined under constitution (Quran provides guidance for those all levels). right?, lets move ahead ...

Now, as you want to know ‘whose rational thinking we should use to create laws’?
It’s not a matter of us (as people) to make laws, we have to follow. This question is rather related to the law-makers. Okay …

In an ideal Islamic society, members of Parliament or Shura (the law making institute) should be capable enough to handle such issues under the principles of Islam; different members would discuss any specific issue, in light of Quran with rational thinking and debate, and after through debate a law could be finalized. As people we have to accept the law, or if someone find it contrary to Quranic values, that can be challenged in the Court. (this sort of ideal Islamic parliament can also be found in lectures of Allama Iqbal). So it could automatically decide within parliament that which member’s idea needs to be accepted.

Or, as we are not an ideal society, but we have an institute called ‘Council of Islamic Ideology’, supposed to be represented by top scholars among the society, having knowledge and research both in Islamic principles and having a good vision on the challenges of current world. So they can discuss and debate logically on any given issue. And so

So, I don’t know did I answer your question in proper manner or not :)

Regards

that is what i am trying to say
do not leave it to individuals or any one who started to be called as ALIM,SCHOLAR etc.

i have many Hadith,Quran softwares. and access to many Hadith websites
And i used to debate non muslims on the basis of logic I try to answer their each and every point using logical argument

But I remember a very fine sentence written on one of the Hadith database website that
It was something like "You have downloaded database but it did not means that now you are eligible for giving Fatwas"

Today we have many names that have attached words Alim,scholors to them they did not try to show that Islam is correct using rational reasoning
they try to fit Islam on rational thinking of the world.

and that is my problem with "Rational Thinking" idea that is in used these days.

But Islam have a very detail set of rules for using "Rational Thinking" and i have no problem with it.

 

[Rana Tahir Mahmood]

Is it a very hot issue for the development of Pakistan? Actually the mentality producing the priority persons are still prevailing in Pakistan even they wear the clothes above or below the ankles. Basic idea of Islamic or Prophet education is to eliminate such mind set but we do not give any attention for the root cause but discussing the superfluous ideas.

 

[6sman]

Salam!

No one is able to be completely free of pride and arrogance, even if he claims that this is so. Such a claim is unacceptable, because by saying it, he is praising himself. Only in the case of those whom the wahy (revelation) testified that they were free of pride do we believe that this is the case. For example, there is a hadeeth which states that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever trails his garment on the ground out of pride, Allaah will not look at him on the Day of Resurrection." Abu Bakr said to him, "O Messenger of Allaah, my izaar slips down if I do not pay attention to it." He said: "You are not one of those who do it out of pride." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 5784)

Ruling concerns not only lower garments but any type of clothing which entices pride, turban, t-shirts, trouser any extravagant clothing. Suppose tomorrow it becomes fashion to wear lower garments above the ankles which consequently opens the gate to arrogance, what then? Brother Kmanzar pointed out well that we ought grasp the essence of the issue and not get caught up in exotericism or apparentness (zhahiryyat).

Salam!

 

[Logical]

He said: "You are not one of those who do it out of pride." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 5784)[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/LEFT]​

just out of curiosity, how do you know the guy in the 'wrong' picture is NOT WEARING IT OUT OF PRIDE?

IS that guy you QaisarMirza , or some how you know what's in his heart?​