First 10 Ayah of Surah Al Kahf with English translation
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Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This verse was revealed in response to Al Nadr's challenge to Muhammad to answer 3 questions that the Jewish elders had given him.
1) The story of the cave sleepers
2) Story of the man who conquered the world from the East and the West
3) The story of the spirit
Muhammad responded that he will have the answers the next day but did not keep his word. 15 days passed and the people started to ridicule Muhammad for running away from a challenge and not keeping his word. Then Muhammad appeared and gave an excuse that because he forgot to say Inshallah the angels did not come to him for the answers (this is where Muslims started using this word)
Then he gave his response to the 3 questions by announcing the revelation of Syrah Kahf.
1) He repeated the same information from old Jewish cave sleeper stories without adding any additional information to it for example how many cave sleepers were there. He said Allah knows how many there were but he doesn't want to tell you. Portion of this part of the verse is in the above video.
2) Muhammad gave the story of zulqarnain, this is the part where Quran says the sun orbits the Earth and repeats the ancient Egyptian myths that the sun sets into a muddy spring on Earth, travels under the ground and comes out from the East when Allah gives it permission to rise. This version is also confirmed by Sahih hadith, tafsirs fro, that time and the fact that Muslims believed in a flat earth for Atleast 400 years after Muhammad until the scientists of Baghdad reported that the sun was too big to physically go inside the earth. These scientists were threatened of blasphemy for claiming that the Earth is not flat.
3) This part of Surah Kahf says Allah knows about the spirit but doesn't want to tell you. (Yes that was literally the response to that question).
Needless to say Al Nadr and the elders were not very impressed by this response. Muhammad was never able to compete with Al-Nad's intellect and reasoning abilities so when Muhammad came to power, he ordered Ali to behead the poet and doctor Al-Nadr.
1) The story of the cave sleepers
2) Story of the man who conquered the world from the East and the West
3) The story of the spirit
Muhammad responded that he will have the answers the next day but did not keep his word. 15 days passed and the people started to ridicule Muhammad for running away from a challenge and not keeping his word. Then Muhammad appeared and gave an excuse that because he forgot to say Inshallah the angels did not come to him for the answers (this is where Muslims started using this word)
Then he gave his response to the 3 questions by announcing the revelation of Syrah Kahf.
1) He repeated the same information from old Jewish cave sleeper stories without adding any additional information to it for example how many cave sleepers were there. He said Allah knows how many there were but he doesn't want to tell you. Portion of this part of the verse is in the above video.
2) Muhammad gave the story of zulqarnain, this is the part where Quran says the sun orbits the Earth and repeats the ancient Egyptian myths that the sun sets into a muddy spring on Earth, travels under the ground and comes out from the East when Allah gives it permission to rise. This version is also confirmed by Sahih hadith, tafsirs fro, that time and the fact that Muslims believed in a flat earth for Atleast 400 years after Muhammad until the scientists of Baghdad reported that the sun was too big to physically go inside the earth. These scientists were threatened of blasphemy for claiming that the Earth is not flat.
3) This part of Surah Kahf says Allah knows about the spirit but doesn't want to tell you. (Yes that was literally the response to that question).
Needless to say Al Nadr and the elders were not very impressed by this response. Muhammad was never able to compete with Al-Nad's intellect and reasoning abilities so when Muhammad came to power, he ordered Ali to behead the poet and doctor Al-Nadr.
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And you were present there to record all the incidents yourself. Prophet saw had no formal educatio n i guess u went there to teach him all that egyptian faith. Plus if prophet saw had lost to that nadr tribe alot of people would hv left their faith in islam and jiined nadr that never happened on the contrary their people joined prophet saw.
To me the real miracle is not a single word is changed in the Quran since it is revealed in a single copy in this universe guranteeing it is divine there is not a single book or a single scripture with this property. This is the only content that is saved word by word in the heart and heads of billion muslims and the reproduce it word by word not changing a single word now dont tell me hufaz have photographic memory. Tell me a single book scripture book with this property. This is the real miracle and this tells me this is the word of Allah.
Liberal 000
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Jewish Tohra and Hindu Rig veda are preserved too word by word only in single version . The most perfectly religious book written is Sikh holy book checked and signed by Sikh gurus.
As for Quran is concerned it has versions where different words are used though the overall meanings are same but with different words and sentence structure, within some versions the sentences are plural and others singular. Few words in versions have different meanings but idea is same. The most common version that we use today is Hafas version.
Totally wrong torah and reg vidas are not the same as were revealed and hv many versions dont lie plus quran is the same word by word prove me wrong if u r truthful. U never answered how can billions with different languages memorize it word by word. Its not a small book. It is a miracle no other book or scripture is blessed with this property. Only a blind cannot see it.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
There are 3 different versions of the Quran and the content is not saved word for word few verses are missing especially the ones that were kept under Aisha's pillows and were eaten by goats. So much for preservation of the word of the creator of 100 billion galaxy was eaten for ever by goats.
There were disagreements between the sahaba during compilation of Quran over what parts to include and what to exclude, for example they argued Surat Fatiha should not be in the Quran. Many parts of the book are not the word of God especially in Surat Kahf Muhammad asks Gabriel why he didn't come earlier with the 3 answers Gabriel said it was because he forgot Tom say inshallah, this whole exchange is mentioned in Surat Kahf even though it's Gabriel talking as Gabriel and not as Allah.
According to Sahih Hadith many verses were forgotten by the Hafiz and so are lost forever.
There is a whole list of Sahih Hadith of prophet's companions talking about lost and forgotten verses.
If you read the complete story of Nadr, he was not trying to start a new religion or gain followers, he was a well educated and well traveled doctor, people found his stories more interesting than Muhammad's and according to Tabari and other scholars this was the reason why Muhammad had him be headed. All of what I said is from Islamic sources such as original Tafsirs, Prophets biography with some mention of Sahih Hadith. You guys are mindlessly memorizing things without studying the background of the verses from other Islamic sources.
There were disagreements between the sahaba during compilation of Quran over what parts to include and what to exclude, for example they argued Surat Fatiha should not be in the Quran. Many parts of the book are not the word of God especially in Surat Kahf Muhammad asks Gabriel why he didn't come earlier with the 3 answers Gabriel said it was because he forgot Tom say inshallah, this whole exchange is mentioned in Surat Kahf even though it's Gabriel talking as Gabriel and not as Allah.
According to Sahih Hadith many verses were forgotten by the Hafiz and so are lost forever.
- We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: "If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust". ( Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501).
There is a whole list of Sahih Hadith of prophet's companions talking about lost and forgotten verses.
If you read the complete story of Nadr, he was not trying to start a new religion or gain followers, he was a well educated and well traveled doctor, people found his stories more interesting than Muhammad's and according to Tabari and other scholars this was the reason why Muhammad had him be headed. All of what I said is from Islamic sources such as original Tafsirs, Prophets biography with some mention of Sahih Hadith. You guys are mindlessly memorizing things without studying the background of the verses from other Islamic sources.
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So this bullshit is your proof. You are telling me that in the life of Ayesha ra quran was eaten by goat but since then no one touched it? I only believe what I see and observe np one knows what happened then, that is hostory I believe most historians lie. What I see today is huffaz memorizing quran word by word even the people who cant speak arabic . If billions of people can reproduce same book all over the world. That is a miracle and it is like this in every era there is no contradiction about this in any historian thats why I brought it up. You know you are wrong and I know you cannot beat me on this so dont make lame arguments now or tell me about a book or a scripture size of quran memorized by so many people all over the world. One more thing I believe many of ahadees are corrupted so dont bring that bullshit to me I only belive a hadees to be true if it is not contrdictory to quran if it is it is all made up.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
These are not my arguments, it all comes from authentic Islamic sources such as Quran, Hadith, Prophet's biography. You cannot argue with that if you are a Muslim.
The hadith that I mentioned all are supporting the Quran. For example I mentioned in Surah Kahf the Quran says the Earth is flat as it claims the sun sets into a muddy spring in the water and revolves around the Earth.
“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout: We said: O Zul Qarnain! Either punish or show them kindness.” (Al-Kahf: 86)
This verse is confirmed by Sahih Hadith.
[FONT="]It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) one day said:
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
[TABLE="class: hadith_reference"]
[TR]
[TD]Reference[/TD]
[TD] : Sahih Muslim 159 a[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/FONT]
There is also a Sahih Hadith from Bukhari which also confirm the above hadith and Quranic Verse.
I thought you are a Muslim and thought you must have studied all these things in detail for Example the Quran in light of old Tafsirs, the hadith and Prophets biography and other sources in great detail because you probably made a big life decision to follow this for the rest of your life. This is why I didnt link the references earlier but it seems most Muslims either do not read nor believe in their own books. If you need any other references for any specific thing then let me know and I will provide it.
The hadith that I mentioned all are supporting the Quran. For example I mentioned in Surah Kahf the Quran says the Earth is flat as it claims the sun sets into a muddy spring in the water and revolves around the Earth.
“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout: We said: O Zul Qarnain! Either punish or show them kindness.” (Al-Kahf: 86)
This verse is confirmed by Sahih Hadith.
[FONT="]It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) one day said:
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
[TABLE="class: hadith_reference"]
[TR]
[TD]Reference[/TD]
[TD] : Sahih Muslim 159 a[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/FONT]
There is also a Sahih Hadith from Bukhari which also confirm the above hadith and Quranic Verse.
I thought you are a Muslim and thought you must have studied all these things in detail for Example the Quran in light of old Tafsirs, the hadith and Prophets biography and other sources in great detail because you probably made a big life decision to follow this for the rest of your life. This is why I didnt link the references earlier but it seems most Muslims either do not read nor believe in their own books. If you need any other references for any specific thing then let me know and I will provide it.
When I stand on a sea shore I see sun setting in water. It is description of a scene not a scientific talk even a brainless zombie can tell u that plus I told u i only agrees with those ahadees that are in agreement with the Quran the rest is not authentic. You never answered how can so many people memorize Quran?dont u think its a miracle. This fact fascinates me and I think it is impossible that something like this can happen and to me this impossibility is a miracle and this make me believe beyond doubt that this book is special and divine. No one ever accepted its challenge and till date no one is able to create a single sorah like that in Quran. This book is unique. It was revealed in Arabic and it is still a living language ,hibrew is dead and so are others.
To me religon is simple dont do bad things take guidance from Quran and ahadees which are in agreement with the Quran . All the scholars have their opinions but then again they are not prophets they could be wrong I dont believe in sects if I am satisfied by a scholars narration of a problem I accept it if not I reject it. Quran and authentic ahadees I follow word by word. Religion is easy dont know why people complicate it. And this much knowledge is enough for me to get me through, I know the basics and I stick to it.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Well that is your opinion that it is a scene, I do not think that the Quran is a romance book. Its purported to be from the creator and when it says things it says it literally to make a claim.
The Hadith that I mention proves that Muhammad also believed what the Quran said about the claim being scientific and not scenic, this is in line with Arab superstition of that time.
If you do not trust Muhammad then you should atleast trust Ibn Ishaq and Tabari and all the scholars from the time of Muhammad until 400 years after his death, all interpretations and Tafsirs of the verse said that the Quran meant it literally.
It was only few hundred years after that the scientists in Baghdad said this is wrong and the Sun is too big to set on this Earth. Those scientists were given death treats for blasphemy and going against Quran (This is all well documented in the old texts)
You are sitting here in 21st century and thanks to modern science you have a better idea of how the universe is like, but if you were born in the time of Muhammad you too would have believed the Earth is a flat disk and the sun a small fireball, just like all the other Muslims in that time. You have a different opinion than Allah has in the Quran, than Muhammad has in the Hadith (Confirmed by the Tafsirs, they all confirm that Quran and Hadith meant it literally, also confirmed by all major scholars and top Saudi religious leaders such as Ibn Baz) so be honest about it and admit it they were wrong.
The Hadith that I mention proves that Muhammad also believed what the Quran said about the claim being scientific and not scenic, this is in line with Arab superstition of that time.
If you do not trust Muhammad then you should atleast trust Ibn Ishaq and Tabari and all the scholars from the time of Muhammad until 400 years after his death, all interpretations and Tafsirs of the verse said that the Quran meant it literally.
It was only few hundred years after that the scientists in Baghdad said this is wrong and the Sun is too big to set on this Earth. Those scientists were given death treats for blasphemy and going against Quran (This is all well documented in the old texts)
You are sitting here in 21st century and thanks to modern science you have a better idea of how the universe is like, but if you were born in the time of Muhammad you too would have believed the Earth is a flat disk and the sun a small fireball, just like all the other Muslims in that time. You have a different opinion than Allah has in the Quran, than Muhammad has in the Hadith (Confirmed by the Tafsirs, they all confirm that Quran and Hadith meant it literally, also confirmed by all major scholars and top Saudi religious leaders such as Ibn Baz) so be honest about it and admit it they were wrong.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The scholar dedicated their entire life to study of the religion and they were from that time and from that region and had direct access to the prophet, his relatives and companions, they also understand the Quran and the Arabic language better than Scholars and Arabs today. I think their opinion is to be taken much more seriously than the opinion of a Lay man from the Indian Subcontinent living in the 21st century.
The problem with religion is not people like you. You know that many of the verses in Quran and many Hadith are not true and you chose not to follow them.
Much of the moral sense you have today, just like much of the scientific knowledge you have is not credit to Quran or religion, rather it comes from the society that you were born in.
Morality is subjective and it changes from time to time. It might have been morally acceptable to enslave people and chop their limbs for stealing a piece of bread 1400 years ago. I bet your values do not accept these ideas today, even though this is acceptable in Islam, slaving another human being and chopping limbs, beheading people in public will be unacceptable to you because you are born in a modern society which is influenced by modern 20th and 21st Century Secular Morality.
The problem with religion is not people like you. You know that many of the verses in Quran and many Hadith are not true and you chose not to follow them.
Much of the moral sense you have today, just like much of the scientific knowledge you have is not credit to Quran or religion, rather it comes from the society that you were born in.
Morality is subjective and it changes from time to time. It might have been morally acceptable to enslave people and chop their limbs for stealing a piece of bread 1400 years ago. I bet your values do not accept these ideas today, even though this is acceptable in Islam, slaving another human being and chopping limbs, beheading people in public will be unacceptable to you because you are born in a modern society which is influenced by modern 20th and 21st Century Secular Morality.
This is the beauty of Quran it was made simple and easy to understand for humans it is not my opinion it is logical that it is description of the scene your argument that Quran is not romantic read sora rehman I hv near heared something so mesmerising as this sorah in my whole life. I believe on mohammad saw and he is the only one I believe but I dont believe people who relate things to prophet saw that he never said. My litmus is Quran for I know prophet saw can never do anything against or contradictory to Quran, if someone says he did, he certainly is lying. All the people you quoted are just humans and hv understanding of their own which can be wrong. Quran can never be wrong.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
As for Miracle, if by miracle you mean a supernatural Phenomena, memorizing a book is not a supernatural phenoma, the Human brain is fully capable of memorizing a book. I have memorized the Quran at a very young age, I do not think its a miracle. You are under estimating the human brain.
As for the idea of many people memorizing the Quran. It is basic economic principle that if you offer incentive to people that something is going to make their life better they will do it, for example in a supermarket there are 3 cashier, 2 of them have line of 6 people each and one of them have line of 3 people, then 2 people from the other 2 lines will naturally come to this line. Similarly if you brainwash people that memorizing a book will make them better off, this same economic principle will apply and people will memorize it. Just look at how people study and how much they memorize for medical school just because they think it will improve their life and salary.
Hebrew is a much older language than 14th century Arabic. As from a literature and poetic perspective then Quran does seem to have literary and poetic value, it also seems to have been written by a poet. A similar poetic value is from the poems of Prince Imr al Qays, he is regarded as the father of the Arabic language and seems to have inspired Muhammad, there are claims that some verses in Quran were copied from Imr Al Qays, I could not confirm nor reject this as both books have similar poetic value and similar style of writing. So it is not 100% unique. But even if it was unique it doesn't make it super natural. Einsteins field equations were also unique and changed our understanding of the universe it doesnt make him a prophet. The thing is, books are written by Humans, honey is made by bees and nests are made by birds. If a bee can make better honey than all the other bees in the nest, that does not make a case that it was made by God it just means it the bee is exceptional at making Honey, just like Imr al Qays, Muhammad, Al Nadr were exceptional poets during the golden age of Arab poetry, but it doesn't mean its basis for any superstition or the supernatural, it just means they were exceptional poets.
As for the idea of many people memorizing the Quran. It is basic economic principle that if you offer incentive to people that something is going to make their life better they will do it, for example in a supermarket there are 3 cashier, 2 of them have line of 6 people each and one of them have line of 3 people, then 2 people from the other 2 lines will naturally come to this line. Similarly if you brainwash people that memorizing a book will make them better off, this same economic principle will apply and people will memorize it. Just look at how people study and how much they memorize for medical school just because they think it will improve their life and salary.
Hebrew is a much older language than 14th century Arabic. As from a literature and poetic perspective then Quran does seem to have literary and poetic value, it also seems to have been written by a poet. A similar poetic value is from the poems of Prince Imr al Qays, he is regarded as the father of the Arabic language and seems to have inspired Muhammad, there are claims that some verses in Quran were copied from Imr Al Qays, I could not confirm nor reject this as both books have similar poetic value and similar style of writing. So it is not 100% unique. But even if it was unique it doesn't make it super natural. Einsteins field equations were also unique and changed our understanding of the universe it doesnt make him a prophet. The thing is, books are written by Humans, honey is made by bees and nests are made by birds. If a bee can make better honey than all the other bees in the nest, that does not make a case that it was made by God it just means it the bee is exceptional at making Honey, just like Imr al Qays, Muhammad, Al Nadr were exceptional poets during the golden age of Arab poetry, but it doesn't mean its basis for any superstition or the supernatural, it just means they were exceptional poets.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You can believe the Quran but what you cannot do is use your own personal interpretations and make up your own meaning of what the Quran says. In this way you are tampering with the text and the original meaning of the text. This is the purpose of the tafsirs and hadith, they clarify those points that you are confused about. But instead of following the correct procedure of look at other sources of Islam to confirm what the Quran says, you are making up your own meanings which is wrong.
But still they are scholars not prophets and they never had first hand information from prophet saw plus there are politically motivated scholars too. You are right morality is subjective and it change with time adam and eve were a couple but their children were married to each other which in todays age is not permissible also people used to eat raw meat but then fire was invented and they started to cook. Drinking alcohol was allowed but then was forbided things evolve and change. I am sitting in USA not subcontinent . Slavery was allowed because it was permissible at that time , slavery was in the wprld till world war 1 but in islam we were asked to treat them humanly. People who commit crime must be punished and I am of the view that chopping limbs is not so bad for a criminal, here in usa there is a death penalty for criminals. If you say that giving death to someone is better than chopping limbs i would suggest ask the person on death row gv him choice to choose beteeen 2 i believe he will choose life over limb. I believe in every word of Quran and there are many scholars who are of opinion that this verse is description of the scene but in your crookedness you will never mention them. And in sora kahf Allah asked us to beware of such crookedness. If you have eben 1% of intellect in you when you read the verse you understand what it says if you are unbiased, nowhere it says earth is flat show me exact words if you are truthful. U never told me a book other than Quran with so many hufaaz find a scientific explanation for that too. I know you hv no answer as I can see you not comming to the point and jumping from here to there ignoring quranic verse and bringing scholars of your choice in your crookedness. This is my last post on this thread. Salam
The_Choice
Senator (1k+ posts)
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
If you study the book as a whole and try put things together. You will get the picture of what the people who wrote this book thought about the world around them. Forget about everything you know about the universe after Einstein and Galileo. You can say the world is spherical today because it is common sense today. 1400 years ago common sense said that the world is flat.
The independent mentions in the Quran are only possible in a flat world, for example it says that the sun orbits the Earth and then goes under the ground through a muddy spring, this is only possible if the Earth was flat.
You said that it might be a scenic thing, but if you study the verse the Arabic word that is used is Ain, its not Bahar. So the sun is not setting into the Ocean it is setting into a small spring or muddy puddle of water (it is even describing what kind of spring it is which means it is literal). The largest spring in the world is in New Zealand (its called frying pan lake) and even if you give this to the Arabs the spring is still not big enough so all of its sides are visible from any angle so it clearly cannot be a scenic thing and was meant literally.
Also the Arabic word in the Verse used when Zulqarnain saw the sun setting into the muddy spring is used again in the same sentence when it says then Zulqarnain saw people there and God told him to reward those who do good and punish those who did bad. So if you say it appeared that the sun was sinking in the water, then it will not make any sense as in the next sentence it will mean that it appeared to Zulqarnain that there were people there. The correct translation would be that Zulqarnain literally saw the sun setting into the spring and he literally saw people there and God told him to rule over them. After this he traveled to the East and he saw the sun rising from another muddy spring, now you should either believe it was literal or that Zulqarnain was delusional and that God was giving orders to a delusional man to rule the world. The tafsirs went even as far to give a list of a few dozen springs in the East and the West where the sun could have gone into the ground from. ibn Kathir even said that people who lived near those springs are negroes as they got burnt by the sun.
Let me ask you my friend, it is possible that one scholar or two or three are corrupted, but how can every each single scholar be corrupted from the time of Muhammad to hundreds of years later, there were few dozen generations of scholars and every each confirmed a literal translation. This point of view is confirmed from the use of Arabic language in the Quran, those words in the verse are never used to mean something not literally. When Quran said it appeared to people that Jesus was crucified, it specifically said that it just appeared to people that way and he wasn't literally killed.
Frying pan Lake, largest spring in the world.
Many times Quran mentions that the Earth is laid out like a carpets. Carpets are only laid out on a flat surface, not on spheres. This may have been appealing to people 1400 years ago who were convinced that the Earth is flat.
Just study Islam on cosmology from independent sources and you will understand that the people who wrote the book did not have more knowledge than the visible universe from the Human eye. There is mention of 7 heavens, sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupitar and Saturn. There is no mention of heavenly bodies that cannot be seen without telescope such as Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and the huge blackhole in the middle of the Galaxy.
Quran says in 2 days Earth was made, in the next 2 days rivers, mountains and valleys were made and in the next 2 days rest of universe was made. This shows that the people who wrote this did not understand the vastness of space and the size of the sun, stars and planets in relation to the Earth. In this view it makes more sense for the sun to be a small fireball setting into a spring of water on the vaste Earth.
Unless you are living a few miles from Mecca you are never actually prostrating towards Mecca, you are prostrating towards space because of the spherical shape of the Earth. This is idea is only possible if the Earth was flat.
The independent mentions in the Quran are only possible in a flat world, for example it says that the sun orbits the Earth and then goes under the ground through a muddy spring, this is only possible if the Earth was flat.
You said that it might be a scenic thing, but if you study the verse the Arabic word that is used is Ain, its not Bahar. So the sun is not setting into the Ocean it is setting into a small spring or muddy puddle of water (it is even describing what kind of spring it is which means it is literal). The largest spring in the world is in New Zealand (its called frying pan lake) and even if you give this to the Arabs the spring is still not big enough so all of its sides are visible from any angle so it clearly cannot be a scenic thing and was meant literally.
Also the Arabic word in the Verse used when Zulqarnain saw the sun setting into the muddy spring is used again in the same sentence when it says then Zulqarnain saw people there and God told him to reward those who do good and punish those who did bad. So if you say it appeared that the sun was sinking in the water, then it will not make any sense as in the next sentence it will mean that it appeared to Zulqarnain that there were people there. The correct translation would be that Zulqarnain literally saw the sun setting into the spring and he literally saw people there and God told him to rule over them. After this he traveled to the East and he saw the sun rising from another muddy spring, now you should either believe it was literal or that Zulqarnain was delusional and that God was giving orders to a delusional man to rule the world. The tafsirs went even as far to give a list of a few dozen springs in the East and the West where the sun could have gone into the ground from. ibn Kathir even said that people who lived near those springs are negroes as they got burnt by the sun.
Let me ask you my friend, it is possible that one scholar or two or three are corrupted, but how can every each single scholar be corrupted from the time of Muhammad to hundreds of years later, there were few dozen generations of scholars and every each confirmed a literal translation. This point of view is confirmed from the use of Arabic language in the Quran, those words in the verse are never used to mean something not literally. When Quran said it appeared to people that Jesus was crucified, it specifically said that it just appeared to people that way and he wasn't literally killed.
Frying pan Lake, largest spring in the world.
Many times Quran mentions that the Earth is laid out like a carpets. Carpets are only laid out on a flat surface, not on spheres. This may have been appealing to people 1400 years ago who were convinced that the Earth is flat.
Just study Islam on cosmology from independent sources and you will understand that the people who wrote the book did not have more knowledge than the visible universe from the Human eye. There is mention of 7 heavens, sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupitar and Saturn. There is no mention of heavenly bodies that cannot be seen without telescope such as Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and the huge blackhole in the middle of the Galaxy.
Quran says in 2 days Earth was made, in the next 2 days rivers, mountains and valleys were made and in the next 2 days rest of universe was made. This shows that the people who wrote this did not understand the vastness of space and the size of the sun, stars and planets in relation to the Earth. In this view it makes more sense for the sun to be a small fireball setting into a spring of water on the vaste Earth.
Unless you are living a few miles from Mecca you are never actually prostrating towards Mecca, you are prostrating towards space because of the spherical shape of the Earth. This is idea is only possible if the Earth was flat.
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The_Choice
Senator (1k+ posts)
Is Science the Antichrist (Dajjal)?
IS SCIENCE THE ANTICHRIST - DAJJAL?
This page was created to make its readers think. What is truth and what is falsehood? We live in a world where we trust what we are told blindly and without thought. We come into the delusion of the system we live in easily resulting in the loss of a much-needed critical thought process based on practicality and Faith. The majority of people today fall into this web of fallacy simply because we cannot be bothered to dig deeper to reveal hidden agendas and uncover the truth. Many times these facts could just be a short Google search away, but we prefer to just eat what we are fed without looking at the ingredients.
This has to change. Our religiosity has been high jacked by the very system that oppresses our freedom to worship, analyze our surroundings and to speak out. We have been pushed beyond our comfort zones and have given up on trying to push back. It’s like that old saying goes, “If you can’t beat ‘em, you might as well join them.” Not anymore…
Everyday we are being duped into thinking that the industrial complex that feeds us, treats us and entertains us is fact based. We firmly believe that they have done their homework, through scientific research and experiments, just so we don’t have to do ours. It’s absurd, but it’s the truth. We will blindly believe that the pills we pop will heal us, the food we eat nourishes us and that the screens we covet are harmless to our mental development, even if we can see the harmful effects of science and what it has fed us over the past thirty odd years. We have found quicker, more efficient ways to kill one another, we have modified our food to the point that it is making us sick and fat, and we are suffering from cancers and depression, because of being attached to screens and social media. The list goes on and on. But at the cusp of it, the very proof that something is seriously amiss is the fact that we cannot accept these facts at their core.
Our blind belief in this system is evident, but so is our blatant cynicism when it comes to God, His Word, Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) and the Antichrist (Dajjal). There we need clear proofs and evidences…but with science we don’t even think twice before accepting what they churn out year after year.
The Prophetic tradition has taught us about the Antichrist (Dajjal) in great detail and given us prophesies to recognize the signs of his inevitable coming. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) gave very clear signs and directions about the Dajjal, leaving no room for conjecture. We should be prepared to face these trials and tribulations beginning with arming ourselves with knowledge of them and the End of Times.
This page will work to uncover these signs manifest and will help you and your loved ones to prepare. The first step to enlightenment is to accept your state and the state of the world around you. Keep an open mind and try not to let your own prejudices hold you back from truth. The truth is a bitter pill to swallow, but once you get it down, you will transcend falsehood and see the world for what it really is.
This is a deep rabbit hole…so with the Grace of God, let’s begin.
IS SCIENCE THE ANTICHRIST - DAJJAL?
This page was created to make its readers think. What is truth and what is falsehood? We live in a world where we trust what we are told blindly and without thought. We come into the delusion of the system we live in easily resulting in the loss of a much-needed critical thought process based on practicality and Faith. The majority of people today fall into this web of fallacy simply because we cannot be bothered to dig deeper to reveal hidden agendas and uncover the truth. Many times these facts could just be a short Google search away, but we prefer to just eat what we are fed without looking at the ingredients.
This has to change. Our religiosity has been high jacked by the very system that oppresses our freedom to worship, analyze our surroundings and to speak out. We have been pushed beyond our comfort zones and have given up on trying to push back. It’s like that old saying goes, “If you can’t beat ‘em, you might as well join them.” Not anymore…
Everyday we are being duped into thinking that the industrial complex that feeds us, treats us and entertains us is fact based. We firmly believe that they have done their homework, through scientific research and experiments, just so we don’t have to do ours. It’s absurd, but it’s the truth. We will blindly believe that the pills we pop will heal us, the food we eat nourishes us and that the screens we covet are harmless to our mental development, even if we can see the harmful effects of science and what it has fed us over the past thirty odd years. We have found quicker, more efficient ways to kill one another, we have modified our food to the point that it is making us sick and fat, and we are suffering from cancers and depression, because of being attached to screens and social media. The list goes on and on. But at the cusp of it, the very proof that something is seriously amiss is the fact that we cannot accept these facts at their core.
Our blind belief in this system is evident, but so is our blatant cynicism when it comes to God, His Word, Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) and the Antichrist (Dajjal). There we need clear proofs and evidences…but with science we don’t even think twice before accepting what they churn out year after year.
The Prophetic tradition has taught us about the Antichrist (Dajjal) in great detail and given us prophesies to recognize the signs of his inevitable coming. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) gave very clear signs and directions about the Dajjal, leaving no room for conjecture. We should be prepared to face these trials and tribulations beginning with arming ourselves with knowledge of them and the End of Times.
This page will work to uncover these signs manifest and will help you and your loved ones to prepare. The first step to enlightenment is to accept your state and the state of the world around you. Keep an open mind and try not to let your own prejudices hold you back from truth. The truth is a bitter pill to swallow, but once you get it down, you will transcend falsehood and see the world for what it really is.
This is a deep rabbit hole…so with the Grace of God, let’s begin.
