Hadith rejectors eventually end up being Quran rejectors.

Islamabadiya

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Salah does not mean Namaz. Even if you take it as Namaz, can you give me the details from the Quran on how to perform it?

Your views are entirely different to anything we Muslims see amongst us, we do have diverse and different opinions and practices, our practices vary a lot but I haven’t come across anyone who calls himself Muslim and does not believe in Namaaz, roza Hujj Zakat, the pillars

I really want to know how is your daily routine of worshipping the Almighty other than your internal connection, you know the practice ones

But I won’t insist as this might be too personal

But I do say that you haven’t been able to say convincingly that how your opinion about namaaz etc is acutyally right and driven from Quran
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Your views are entirely different to anything we Muslims see amongst us, we do have diverse and different opinions and practices, our practices vary a lot but I haven’t come across anyone who calls himself Muslim and does not believe in Namaaz, roza Hujj Zakat, the pillars

I really want to know how is your daily routine of worshipping the Almighty other than your internal connection, you know the practice ones

But I won’t insist as this might be too personal

But I do say that you haven’t been able to say convincingly that how your opinion about namaaz etc is acutyally right and driven from Quran
These are not my views, but I often quote from the Quran. Many Muslims have not read the Quran or the Hadith and tend to follow the beliefs of their parents and religious leaders (Mullahs) blindly without investigating whether their practices are supported by the Quran.
If I ask you to provide the details of the Namaz from the Quran or Ahadith, I guarantee you won't be able to provide it.
observer-x
 

Islamabadiya

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
These are not my views, but I often quote from the Quran. Many Muslims have not read the Quran or the Hadith and tend to follow the beliefs of their parents and religious leaders (Mullahs) blindly without investigating whether their practices are supported by the Quran.
If I ask you to provide the details of the Namaz from the Quran or Ahadith, I guarantee you won't be able to provide it.
observer-x
you also couldnt tell me what you think it meant in the ayya i quoted about salah, if you think that salah is not how we pray pur namaz, then you should tell me what it means for you

we muslims believe that we need Sunna of Prophet Muhammad PBUH to understand the Quran followed by ijmah etc, there is a complete chain on how to reach a conclusion about understanding, starting from Sunnah and hadith

I do think that there are differences in interpretations of Hadith, and even the authenticity of some Hadith, but on bigger and important issues, there is a general agreement on the understanding of bigger Islamic issues amongst different sects and schools of thoughts of Islam. Such As: Namaz and Zakat

For you to frequently disagree with the very nature and DNA of muslims way of worships, you really should come up with better 'written in your own words or of the words of the those you follow' than just few youtube clips ( I am not taunting you)

Your own detailes or short explanations in simple words will have a better chance of convincing others that why namaz is not to be performed the way we do or why there is no no need to go to Makkah etc
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
you also couldnt tell me what you think it meant in the ayya i quoted about salah, if you think that salah is not how we pray pur namaz, then you should tell me what it means for you

we muslims believe that we need Sunna of Prophet Muhammad PBUH to understand the Quran followed by ijmah etc, there is a complete chain on how to reach a conclusion about understanding, starting from Sunnah and hadith

I do think that there are differences in interpretations of Hadith, and even the authenticity of some Hadith, but on bigger and important issues, there is a general agreement on the understanding of bigger Islamic issues amongst different sects and schools of thoughts of Islam. Such As: Namaz and Zakat

For you to frequently disagree with the very nature and DNA of muslims way of worships, you really should come up with better 'written in your own words or of the words of the those you follow' than just few youtube clips ( I am not taunting you)

Your own detailes or short explanations in simple words will have a better chance of convincing others that why namaz is not to be performed the way we do or why there is no no need to go to Makkah etc
Since you perform the Namaz, you should be giving the details of how to perform Namaz, not me. As I said earlier, that blind following is what the majority of Muslims do without contemplating whether it holds any truth, logic, or rationality.
I don't just follow some YouTube videos, but I verify it for myself whether it makes sense or not.
Here is another question: why do you have to bow & prostrate yourself towards a concrete structure named Kaaba? Isn't it a Shirk?
 

Islamabadiya

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Since you perform the Namaz, you should be giving the details of how to perform Namaz, not me. As I said earlier, that blind following is what the majority of Muslims do without contemplating whether it holds any truth, logic, or rationality.
I don't just follow some YouTube videos, but I verify it for myself whether it makes sense or not.
Here is another question: why do you have to bow & prostrate yourself towards a concrete structure named Kaaba? Isn't it a Shirk?

we perform namaz the way we do is because we believe that this is the way it has to be done passed on to us via hadith and scholars' interpretation of Allah's Orders

if you think we are wrong then why cant you tell us what does Salah mean for you practically?
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
we perform namaz the way we do is because we believe that this is the way it has to be done passed on to us via hadith and scholars' interpretation of Allah's Orders

if you think we are wrong then why cant you tell us what does Salah mean for you practically?
That is not a good answer. You have to show how to perform Namaz from the Quran or Ahadith. Just blindly following is not a logical reply.
I told you what Salah means. It certainly does not mean Namaz.
Salat means to communicate or to connect or to adhere to something.
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
we perform namaz the way we do is because we believe that this is the way it has to be done passed on to us via hadith and scholars' interpretation of Allah's Orders

if you think we are wrong then why cant you tell us what does Salah mean for you practically?
Ok, I will make it simple for you. Can you provide just one hadith that tells about the number of Rakaa in each Namaz?
 

Islamabadiya

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
That is not a good answer. You have to show how to perform Namaz from the Quran or Ahadith. Just blindly following is not a logical reply.
I told you what Salah means. It certainly does not mean Namaz.
Salat means to communicate or to connect or to adhere to something.
Ok, I will make it simple for you. Can you provide just one hadith that tells about the number of Rakaa in each Namaz?

like i said earlier, proving these things is not my domain, not that i cant but its not my topic

your views were interesting to me in the sense that you diagree with billions of people and i was only interested in knowing how your worship routine is, so to diagree with billiosn of people's beliefe i did expect better references from you other than rethrowing the questions at me ( not expert)

i will appreciate if you share your worship routine
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
like i said earlier, proving these things is not my domain, not that i cant but its not my topic

your views were interesting to me in the sense that you diagree with billions of people and i was only interested in knowing how your worship routine is, so to diagree with billiosn of people's beliefe i did expect better references from you other than rethrowing the questions at me ( not expert)

i will appreciate if you share your worship routine
I knew that no one could even find a hadith about the number of Rakaa in the Namaz. Even your so-called scholars of ahadith can not answer about the number of Rakaas in the Namaz. I'm asking you a question about Namaz because you believe in it and practice it. Which I no longer do.
As I said earlier, these are not my views but of the Quran, which every Muslim believes in but fails to follow.
Muslims don't even know what they are reading in the Namaz?
I don't worship, so why would I share my worship routine with you?
 

wasiqjaved

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
wasiqjaved sir with all due respect dawah is done to the ones who never studied Islam due to the difference in core message. Like christians/ jews/ hindus/ atheists etc.

Qadiyanis, sunnah/ hadith deniers, Bahai etc are all knowledgeable in the core belief of Islam yet they chose to part ways. They can't be treated the same way with dawah methodology like people of another religion and scholars attest to this. Their only intention is to derail the common men from Islam.

Hope you understand.
JazakAllah for your thoughtful reply once again.

I do understand where you're coming from — particularly the distinction you’ve drawn between da’wah to non-Muslims versus addressing those whom you believe have knowingly deviated from core Islamic beliefs (such as Hadith deniers or Qadiyanis). Your view reflects the concern of many traditional scholars who fear the deliberate misguidance of the Muslim masses under the guise of "reform."

However, I would respectfully add that not all those who fall into these groups do so out of conscious rebellion or malice. Some may have:
  • Lost trust in religious institutions due to hypocrisy or corruption.
  • Encountered cherry-picked Hadith or cultural distortions being passed as Islam.
  • Been exposed to internet “scholarship” and lack the tools to critically analyze it.
  • Simply born into this deviated "sect".
Even the Sunnah itself teaches us to assess each person individually. The Prophet ﷺ reached out even to the munafiqeen with mercy — not because he agreed with them, but because he never closed the door on anyone.

You’re right: we must protect the laypeople. But silencing, ridiculing, or labeling anyone without effort to educate or engage can sometimes push them deeper into deviation.

And to be honest, I've also seen cases where someone once rejected Hadith — but through respectful, intelligent conversation, they came back to a balanced understanding of the Deen.

So perhaps the solution is a dual approach:
  • Firm refutation of harmful ideologies in public,
  • But also gentle outreach to individuals who might be salvageable through hikmah and character.
I may be wrong in my approach, but I feel this might be the right way to approach things. Being a muslim, we must always show compassion and mercy toward others. May Allah guide us all and unite us on the truth with sincerity and humility. Ameen.
 

Islamabadiya

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I knew that no one could even find a hadith about the number of Rakaa in the Namaz. Even your so-called scholars of ahadith can not answer about the number of Rakaas in the Namaz. I'm asking you a question about Namaz because you believe in it and practice it. Which I no longer do.
As I said earlier, these are not my views but of the Quran, which every Muslim believes in but fails to follow.
Muslims don't even know what they are reading in the Namaz?
I don't worship, so why would I share my worship routine with you?

this could be my last post here, i am failing to see any substance from you, any references to Quran which prove your point of view, afterall its you disagreeing with billions of people's belief

if i didnt post any hadith doesnt mean such hadits or Quranic interpretations dont exist, i have already told you that this is not my topic,
 

Islamabadiya

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I knew that no one could even find a hadith about the number of Rakaa in the Namaz. Even your so-called scholars of ahadith can not answer about the number of Rakaas in the Namaz. I'm asking you a question about Namaz because you believe in it and practice it. Which I no longer do.
As I said earlier, these are not my views but of the Quran, which every Muslim believes in but fails to follow.
Muslims don't even know what they are reading in the Namaz?
I don't worship, so why would I share my worship routine with you?

by the way, if you dont believe in worship then i dont what are we debating here about

you must have some way of worshipping Allah if you are a muslim

TC
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
this could be my last post here, i am failing to see any substance from you, any references to Quran which prove your point of view, afterall its you disagreeing with billions of people's belief

if i didnt post any hadith doesnt mean such hadits or Quranic interpretations dont exist, i have already told you that this is not my topic,
A billion people's belief does not mean they are right. The 2 billion Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God. Are they right as well?
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
by the way, if you dont believe in worship then i dont what are we debating here about

you must have some way of worshipping Allah if you are a muslim

TC
Find me a Quranic verse where Allah commands us to perform Namaz, Roza, or Hajj as ways to worship Him.
 

Islamabadiya

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Yes! Allah does not need our worship. He sends the Quran for our guidance, not for worship.

Indeed, I am Allah. There is no god except Me, so worship Me": (Quran 20:14)

As you believe in Quran, its shocking for me that you say there is no need to worship Allah or Allah doesnt need our worshipping, when in Quran it has been mentioned on more than one occasion that we need to worship Allah

if you decide to change your mind to this question and want to agree that we need to worship Allah, then pls do share how will that worship take place
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Indeed, I am Allah. There is no god except Me, so worship Me": (Quran 20:14)

As you believe in Quran, its shocking for me that you say there is no need to worship Allah or Allah doesnt need our worshipping, when in Quran it has been mentioned on more than one occasion that we need to worship Allah

if you decide to change your mind to this question and want to agree that we need to worship Allah, then pls do share how will that worship take place
I know about this verse, but wrong translation of the word Ibaada.
Even if I accept it as Ibaada, can you give me another verse that the Namaz, fasting, and Hajj are meant to worship Allah?
 

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