ali786

Citizen
hahahahaha u dint answer my questions bro?? @1947 pakistani? if u have done so much research on people who narrate hadees plz also do research on the family of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) "the ahlaye-baith". Allah might give u and ur yazeed lovers some hadyat! :D and bro its not a shia sunni disucssion... its a discussion between haq and batil... the love of hussain (AS) and ur love for yazeed (lanti). i see the smrik of abu suffayan and abu jahil in such ppl who proclaim to give excuses for yazeed(lanti). they are munafik and jahil at the same time! and ya at the same time i love all my SUNNI brothers who pay aqeedat to imam hussain's (AS) sacrifice and regard yazeed as one of the biggest sinners, fasik and fajir of this world ! :D

this one of the video's dedicated from such a sunni brother

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTeNSb7C8Yo
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
My Dear Brother ali786,

All Muslims love Prophet Muhammd (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) and his (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) family. Every Muslim love Hassan (RA) and Husain (RA) without any doubt. At the same time we respect Dr. Israr Ahmed and Dr. Zakir Naik for their contribution to promote Islam.

I do not think any Muslim would have love for Yazeed. I am not here to protect Yazeed. Check my post, my only message is follow Qur'aan ans Sunnah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم). Some of my Muslim brothers are deviating from Islam because they are not following Qur'aan ans Sunnah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم). They are following their peer, faqeer, darwaish, wali etc. without realizing that sometime these peer, faqeer, darwaish, wali etc. are diverting them to perform SHIRKIA acts. These blind followers have so much trust in their peer, faqeer, darwaish, wali etc that they think whatever they are saying is according to Qur'aan and Sunnah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم), which is not the case.

The problem is that some on my Muslim brothers have very wrong Islamic believes. For example, the peer they are following sees Prophet Muhammad (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) in his dream. Another believe that their peer is aware of unseen (غیب کا علم ). If a follower have these type of wrong believes than they can not refuse any thing what their peer says and this is where the problem lies.
 

khurram01

Voter (50+ posts)
Kiya Yeh Shahaba Se Mohabbat hai??

ALLAH jisko ko chaye izzat de aur jisko chaye zillat de. Is scholar ke death news ki choti headline ki wajah
 

sarbakaf

Siasat.pk - Blogger
death of dr israr saab

the news is not unknown
all those who like religion and are in circle of education and learning already pray form departure of dr israr
he was a man of vision and he definately did live his life for a purpose.

secondly dr israr never dis respected any sahabi.....
those who blame him of disrespect to sahaba have not probably read books of hadith
May ALlah grant him Jannat every second till day of judgement and raise him as an honoured man on day of judgement and may he and we all be blessed with jannah
aameen
 
M

Murshad Jee

Guest
Jazaak ALLAH Khair........................................Brother Khurram for very very good and knowledgeable post.
Subhaan ALLAH.............................................Kis khub surati se Shykh ul Islam Dr. Tahir ul Qadri ne Shaan-e-ALI (Radi Allah Ta'Alah Anhu) bayan farmai.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The problem with some Muslim sects is that they are blindly following the believe of their ancestors. They never try to correct themselves by consulting the source of Islam, that is , Qur’aan and Sunnah. They claim that they follow Qur’aan and Sunnah but in reality, all they do in case of criticism, they try to justify their believes, even by quoting un-authentic Hadith. If you show them Qur'aanic verses and authentic Hadiths they would still not be convinced because their mind does not accept how their ancestors and Masoom Imams can make mistakes.

For example some of the Muslim Sects believes that the family of Prophet Muhammad and their descendents up to certain Imams were ma'soom (they were unable to make mistake). Keeping in view this background, how can that particular sect accept that Ali (R.A.) ever drank alcohol? Because Dr. Israr's explanation of Qur'aan stricks their wrong believe (ma'soom), they started bashing him. Although, Dr. Israr Ahmed were not being disrespectful of Ali (RA).

Before the complete Prohibition of alcohol, the companions of Prophet Muhammad used to drink alcohol and there is nothing to be ashamed about or upset about this fact. Allah’s orders came gradually, first telling the fact that Alcohol has some good in it but it has more harm in it. It was only this second order which forbade the Muslims from being drunk in the state of prayer and the final order came later which completely banned alcoholic drinks. When the final order came, some companions were at that moment drinking but on hearing the order totally threw away their drinks. Then some people started having doubts about the Muslims who were killed before the final prohibition, so Allah revealed the verse that there is no sin on them for what they had in the past before the prohibition order and this has been mentioned in Bukhari

Bukhari : Volume 3, Book 43, Number 644:

Narrated Anas: I was the butler of the people in the house of Abu Talha, and in those days drinks were prepared from dates. Allah’s Apostle ordered somebody to announce that alcoholic drinks had been prohibited. Abu Talha ordered me to go out and spill the wine. I went out and spilled it, and it flowed in the streets of Medina. Some people said, “Some people were killed and wine was still in their stomachs.” On that the Divine revelation came:- “On those who believe And do good deeds There is no blame For what they ate (in the past).” (Quran 5: 93)

Ali Radiallahu Anhum was a human being and it is human to error.

The Prophet (pbuh) never committed any mistake in the deliverance of Allah’s message. It is in this sphere that, according to the Qur’an God closely guards His prophets Himself and through His angels to see whether His message is accurately delivered or not (Al-Jinn 72: 27 – 28).


إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا
Yusuf Ali 27: "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,
مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے

لِّيَعْلَمَ أَن قَدْ أَبْلَغُوا رِسَالَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَأَحَاطَ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ وَأَحْصَىٰ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ عَدَدًا
Yusuf Ali 28: "That He may know that they have (truly) brought and delivered the Messages of their Lord: and He surrounds (all the mysteries) that are with them, and takes account of every single thing."
تاکہ وہ بظاہر جان لے کہ انہوں نے اپنے رب کے پیغامات پہنچا دیے اور الله نے تمام کاموں کو اپنے قبضے میں کر رکھا ہے ارواس نے ہر چیز کی گنتی شمار کر رکھی ہے

Besides this sphere, as a human being, a prophet may commit a mistake. However, if this mistake has even an indirect effect on the message of God that he is deputed to deliver, Allah corrects the prophet of such a mistake without any delay.
The Qur’an has clearly pointed out some incorrect decisions of the Prophet (pbuh), which, if uncorrected could have effected the message of God. For instance, in Surah Al-Tahreem 66: 1 – 2,

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ ۖ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ ۚ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
Yusuf Ali 1: O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
اے نبی آپ کیوں حرام کرتے ہیں جو الله نے آپ کے لیے حلال کیا ہے آپ اپنی بیویوں کی خوشنودی چاہتے ہیں اور الله بخشنے والا نہایت رحم والا ہے

قَدْ فَرَضَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ تَحِلَّةَ أَيْمَانِكُمْ ۚ وَاللَّهُ مَوْلَاكُمْ ۖ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ
Yusuf Ali 2: Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths (in some cases): and Allah is your Protector, and He is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.
الله نے تمہارے لیے اپنی قسموں کا توڑ دینا فرض کر دیا ہے اور الله ہی تمہارا مالک ہے اوروہی سب کا جاننے والا حکمت والا ہے

the Prophet has been directed by God to dissolve such oaths through which he had resolved to refrain from something, which was not unlawful according to the Shari`ah. Because such a refrain of the Prophet (pbuh) could have caused the ordinary Muslims, in their desire to follow the Prophet’s footsteps in all matters, to be inclined towards refraining from such a lawful acts, the Prophet (pbuh) was therefore, immediately corrected in the matter.

Besides this matter, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him has also been corrected for some minor errors in Al-Taubah 9: 43, Abasa 80: 1 – 16, Al-Kahaf 18: 23 – 24.

عَفَا اللَّهُ عَنكَ لِمَ أَذِنتَ لَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَتَبَيَّنَ لَكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَتَعْلَمَ الْكَاذِبِينَ
Yusuf Ali 43: Allah give thee grace! why didst thou grant them until those who told the truth were seen by thee in a clear light, and thou hadst proved the liars? (Al-Taubah 9: 43)
الله نے تمہیں معاف کر دیا تم نےانہیں کیوں رخصت دی یہاں تک کہ تیرے لیے سچے ظاہر ہو جاتے اور تو جھوٹوں کو جان لیتا

Nevertheless, it should remain clear that the errors of a Prophet of Allah are basically in their grace and sympathy toward others, in their love and respect for other people and in their desire to save people from the everlasting punishment of Hellfire.

Besides these matters, the prophets of Allah can also commit human errors of judgment in everyday life matters. However, as has been stated earlier, it should remain very clear that all such errors that could have even a slightest of impact on the deliverance of Allah’s message are immediately corrected by the Almighty Himself. This is the reason why the prophets of Allah are believed to be “Ma`soom” (i.e. innocent or clear of all mistakes) in this particular sphere by the Muslims. Other errors, which have no impact on the message of Allah or its unadulterated deliverance, may or may not be corrected.

If all Muslim follow Quraan and Sunnah (PBUH) then there would be no sects and division in Muslim. And Muslim can be united as per Allah's Order:

1. Allaah says: "And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allaah (i.e., this Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves." Surah Aali-`Imraan [3:103]

2. And He says: "And do not be among the polytheists. Of those who split up their religion and became sects, each sect rejoicing in that which is with it." Surat-ur-Room [30:31-32]

3. "And if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it back to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is more suitable for final determination." Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:59].

Reference: http://www.understanding-islam.com/rpr/pr-020.htm
 
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Knowledge Seeker

Senator (1k+ posts)
khurram01 said:
ALLAH jisko ko chaye izzat de aur jisko chaye zillat de. Is scholar ke death news ki choti headline ki wajah

Brother Khurram, your comments would not serve any good for unity of Muslims.

Dr. Israr Ahmed (May Allah Bless him) was a good scholar and I have Husn e Zan that his intentions were sincere about spreading the messge of Islam. I hope that you would be well aware of the fact that Dr. Tahir Ul Qadri had specially advised the management of Minhaj Ul Quran to attend the funeral prayer of Dr. Israr Ahmed (May Allah Bless him).

Following is the web release of Minhaj Ul Quran:

Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri grieved over the sad demise of Dr Israr Ahmad
Dated: 14 April 2010
Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, the founding leader and patron-in-chief of Minhaj-ul-Quran International, has expressed his deep sorrow and grief over the sad demise of the renowned scholar and founder of Tanzeem-e-Islami, Dr Israr Ahmad. He breathed his last at the age of 78 on Wednesday, April 14, due to cardiac failure. In his message from Makkah tul Makarrama, Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri expressed his condolence to his sons, family members and followers. Meanwhile, on special instruction of Shaykh ul Islam, Amir-e-Tehreek; Sahibzada Faiz-ur-Rehman Durrani, Nazim-e-Ala Dr Raheeq Ahmad Abbasi and other central leaders of MQI participated in his funeral prayers.

So please discuss the issue without targeting respected Personalities.
 
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dukelondon

Senator (1k+ posts)
Zakir Naik is a scar (really ugly one) on the face of Islam.

@anwer4ever

Everyone knows that many Sahabas used to drink before alcohol was banned but Hazrat Ali was NOT one of them. He never touch alcohol in his entire life. When asked about alcohol He said "If there is a well and one drop of alcohol is mixed in the water of the well, and if a goat drinks that water, then the milk of that goat is haraam on Ali". So, Dr. Israr made a baseless accusation to defame Hazrat Ali. He did it because of his blind love for Yazid and Muawiyah. Remember, Bughz-e-Ali aik aisi beemari ka naam hai jis a jahannum kay ilawa koi ilaaj nahi. Please check with your spiritual doctor if you have this illness or not.

@Pakistan1947
Keep in mind that this is NOT a shia sunni debate. This is a Hussaini Yazidi debate. Shias and Sunnis are in the Hussaini camp and some NON-SUNNIS who call themselves sunnies are part of the Yazidi camp. So, dont even think about using the word Shia Sunni debate. We sunnis are already under the branch of Quran and Sunnah. Dont need your help. You better start distancing yourself from evil Shayateen like Zakir Naik and Yazid.
 
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mediator

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Zakir Naik is a scar (really ugly one) on the face of Islam.

@anwer4ever

Everyone knows that many Sahabas used to drink before alcohol was banned but Hazrat Ali was NOT one of them. He never touch alcohol in his entire life. When asked about alcohol He said "If there is a well and one drop of alcohol is mixed in the water of the well, and if a goat drinks that water, then the milk of that goat is haraam on Ali". So, Dr. Israr made a baseless accusation to defame Hazrat Ali. He did it because of his blind love for Yazid and Muawiyah. Remember, Bughz-e-Ali aik aisi beemari ka naam hai jis a jahannum kay ilawa koi ilaaj nahi. Please check with your spiritual doctor if you have this illness or not.

@dukelondon, I think it is appropriate to provide reference from authentic books of Hadith, whenever you quote an statement in favor or against any religious argument.

If you agree than we would like to know the source of the statement you mentioned in your last post.
 
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khurram01

Voter (50+ posts)
Tahir ul Qadri is the best, dr zakir naik Nauzbillah Hazrat Umer Farooq(RA) ke hukam ki manfi kar rahe hain, aur ulema ko un par tarjeeh de rahe hain. Plz listen it carefully wat he is saying
He is introducing New Islam. Listen he is say that the Islam he is telling is correct, the old people beleives are not correct.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Tahir ul Qadri is the best, dr zakir naik Nauzbillah Hazrat Umer Farooq(RA) ke hukam ki manfi kar rahe hain, aur ulema ko un par tarjeeh de rahe hain. Plz listen it carefully wat he is saying. He is introducing New Islam. Listen he is say that the Islam he is telling is correct, the old people beleives are not correct.

Dear khurram01, I did carefully listen the whole video, I could not find anywhere that Dr. Zakir Naik is negating any order of Umer Farooq (RA). Could you please mention the time (min:sec) where you notice this happened in this video.

I did hear Dr. Zakir Naik saying, "And I said in my press note that whoever is real killer of Hussain (RA) I curse him" at (1:36)
 

Muhammad Afzal

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
OK "What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander." Ullemae Haque, and not the Halwaa eating Ulleema, are of one opinion about the whole story of Karbala. But lets turn the table and see if my barelvi friends (who support this Yazeed issue along side my Shia brothers) can ask their Shia predecessors what Opinion they Hold about our Mother in Islam Amma Aisha RA, and our three most esteemed and jalil ul Qadar Sahabi Abu Bakar Sadique RA, Umar RA and Usman RA.
In His SWM days of sickness, RasuLallah SWM has offered namaz under the Imamat of Hadarat Abu Bakar Sadique RA, and He SWM said if at all there was a Nabi to come after me it would have been Umar RA. And these three were among the 10 sahabi's who were given great tidings about janat in their lives by non other than our Beloved Prophet Muhammad SWM. They are also amongst the badari sahabis about whom Allah says in the Quran and they got the title Radi Allah Anhon. SO the fairy tales my brother tells about these figures and abuse them, can somebody answer. And why my sunni brothers fall for this Yazeed Issue, on the day of Judgement InshAllah, Allah will decide who was misguided in this dunya.
 

Muhammad Afzal

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
i dont knw why u try to try to amend certain hadees even without the authentic proof that its right or wrong. for u shahi bukhari is so right that u believe what ever is written in it without even thinking that no man made book is perfect other than Quran which is the word of Allah (swt). if that mr buhkhari being jus an ordinary man is so right for u and whatever he says to u is perfect den for us the family of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) the ahlaye-baith are perfect coz they cant be wrong as they are the ones who Allah (swt) has nominated to teach islam!
"

So you are saying that the Hadeeth we quote you are false hadiths, and the fabricated stories you have are 100% truth" MashAllah. So what ever your believes and faith is about our beloved Sahaba is from the quran, because according to you only quran is 100% authentic, but if they are not and they are man mad than brother same rules apply to them that you quotted above. So keep your ideology to your self because people have become much wiser to fall for lies.
Allah knows the truth, who is guided and who is misguided. But one thing is for sure that our Sahaba RA all of them were guided and righteous and who so ever will follow them will be saved from hell fire.
 
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Psycho

MPA (400+ posts)
15 Peoples Accepted Islam at a time in Bombay Dr Zakir Naik

[blip]http://blip.tv/play/hcghgdjIDwI[/blip]
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I would request to all the respected Shia Muslim memebers to please keep away from this thread.

The mojority of Muslim Sect's religion is not based on cursing other.

Again my humble request to all my respected Shia Muslim Brother / sisters , please keep this thread clean.

We are all human and sometimes make mistakes. Even if we belong to a different school of thought we should appreciate the good work Dr. Zakir Naik has been doing.

We are all human and sometimes make mistakes.

May Allah give Dr. Zakir Naik Jazah for his noble mission. (Aameen).
 
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Muhammad Afzal

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
48 hours and still waiting a response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where are my barelvi brothers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!