KASHMIR CRISIS 1948--KNOW YOUR FACTS.

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear friends
Take a few moments to read the very brief article on the history of dispute of Kashmir and indian involvement and decide on who is the aggresser.
If indians claim to their invasion is right then the same principle can apply in the future to the indian problems.

Website is also given if any one wants to get some related or detailed information.

Kashmir, the last of the defiant states, was the reverse of Hyderabad. It had a Hindu ruler, Maharaja Hari Singh, but his subjects were mostly Muslims, accounting to 78 percent of the total population. The Maharaja was reluctant to join either India or Pakistan. But Lord Mountbatten urged him to take a decision to join either of the states before August 15, 1947.
The Maharaja asked for more time to consider his decision. In the meantime he asked the Indian and the Pakistani government to sign a "standstill agreement" with him. Pakistan consented but India refused.

The local population of Poonch began to press the Maharaja to accede to Pakistan. In August 1947, they held a massive demonstration to protest against the Maharaja's indecisiveness. The Maharaja panicked. He asked his Hindu paratroopers to open fire, and within a matter of seconds, several hundred Muslims were killed. Rising up against this brutal action, a local barrister called Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim immediately set up the Azad Kashmir government and began to wage guerrilla warfare against the Maharaja.
By October 1947, the war of Kashmir had begun in earnest. The Pathan tribesmen from the North West Frontier Province, wanting to avenge the deaths of their brothers, invaded the valley. On reaching the valley of Kashmir, they defeated the Maharaja's troops and reached the gates of Srinagar, the capital.
The Maharaja sensing his defeat took refuge in Jammu whence he appealed to India to send troops to halt the onslaught of the tribesmen. India agreed on the condition that Kashmir would accede to India. On October 26, 1947, the Maharaja acceded to India. Lord Mountbatten accepted the accession on behalf of India.

On October 27, 1947, India began to airlift her troops to Srinagar, and launched a full-scale attack on the tribesmen. Pakistan was stunned. Despite her scant military resources, Pakistan was prepared to send in her troops but the British General Gracey, Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army, was against it. Jinnah proposed an immediate ceasefire and later on a fair and free plebiscite in Jammu and Kashmir.

In January 1948, India took the dispute to the Security Council. There it accused Pakistan of aggression and demanded that Pakistan withdraw her tribesmen. But Pakistan held that the accession of Kashmir had been brought about by force. The government requested the Security Council to arrange a cease-fire and asked both the tribesmen and the Indian troops to withdraw so that a free and impartial plebiscite could be held to ascertain the wishes of the people of Kashmir.
While the Kashmir issue was still on the table, the Indian troops launched a full-scale attack and drove the tribesmen right back to the Pakistani border.

Pakistan rushed her regular troops into Kashmir and a full-scale war with India ensued. She took control of the Azad Kashmir Army. But the Security Council on August 13, 1948, called for an immediate ceasefire, the withdrawal of all Pakistani and Indian troops and holding of plebiscite under United Nations' supervision. Both the Indian and Pakistani governments accepted the resolution.

In January 1949, the resolution began to be implemented. In July 1949, the ceasefire line was demarcated. Pakistan's side of Kashmir consisted of some parts of Jammu, Poonch, some areas of Western Kashmir, Gilgit, and a great chunk of Ladakh territory near the Chinese border in the North. India kept the valley of Kashmir, Jammu and the remainder of Ladakh territory near the Tibet border.
The cease-fire has remained in existence since 1949. No plebiscite has been held and thus the Kashmir issue still remains disputed and unresolved.


http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articlet ... =A052&Pg=4
 

desicad

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
(UN Resolution as posted by whatsup doc in the thread Indo-pak dialogue).

*RESOLUTION ADOPTED BY THE UNITED NATIONS COMMISSION FOR INDIA AND PAKISTAN ON 13 AUGUST 1948. (DOCUMENT NO. S/1100, PARA 75, DATED THE 9TH NOVEMBER, 1948)
THE UNITED NATIONS COMMISSION FOR INDIA AND PAKISTAN
Having given careful consideration to the points of view expressed by the Representatives of India and Pakistan regarding the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and
Being of the opinion that the prompt cessation of hostilities and the coercion of conditions the continuance of which is likely to endanger international peace and security are essential to implementation of its endeavors to assist the Governments of India and Pakistan in effecting a final settlement of the situation.
Resolves to submit simultaneously to the Governments of India and Pakistan the following proposal
PART I
CEASE-FIRE ORDER
A. The Governments of India and Pakistan agree that their respective High Commands will issue separately and simultaneously a cease- fire order to apply to all forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir as of the earliest practicable date or dates to be mutually agreed upon within four days after these proposals have been accepted by both Governments.
B. The High Commands of Indian and Pakistan forces agreed to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. (For the purpose of these proposals "forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides).
C. The Commanders-in-Chief of the Forces of India and Pakistan shall promptly confer regarding any necessary local changes in present dispositions which may facilitate the cease-fire.
D. In its discretions and as the Commission may find practicable, the Commission will appoint military observers who under the authority of the Commission and with the co-operation of both Commands will supervise the observance of the cease-fire order.
E. The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan agree to appeal to their respective peoples to assist in creating and maintaining an atmosphere favorable to the promotion of further negotiations.

PART II
TRUCE AGREEMENT
Simultaneously with the acceptance of the proposal for the immediate cessation of hostilities as outlined in Part I, both Governments accept the following principles as a basis for the formulation of a truce agreement, the details of which shall be worked out in discussion between their Representatives and the Commission.
A. (l) As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.
(2) The Government of Pakistan will use its best endeavor to secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistan nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting.
(3) Pending a final solution the territory evacuated by the Pakistan troops will be administered by the local authorities under the surveillance of the Commission.
B. (1) When the Commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and Pakistan nationals referred to in Part II A 2 hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that the Pakistan forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of their forces from the State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission
(2) Pending the acceptance of the conditions for a final settlement of the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Indian Government will maintain within the lines existing at the moment of cease-fire the minimum strength of its forces which in agreement with the Commission are considered necessary to assist local authorities in the observance of law and order. The Commission will have observers stationed where it deems necessary.
(3) The Government of India will undertake to ensure that the Government of the State of Jammu and Kashmir will take all measures within their power to make it publicly known that peace, law and order will be safeguarded and that all human and political rights will be guaranteed.
C. (1) Upon signature, the full text of the Truce Agreement or communiqu containing the principles thereof as agreed upon between the two Governments and the Commission, will be made public.

PART III
The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan reaffirm their wish that the future status of the State of Jammu and Kashmir shall be determined in accordance with the will of the people and to that end, upon acceptance of the Truce Agreement both Governments agree to enter into consultations with the Commission to determine fair and equitable conditions whereby such free expression will be assured.
________________________________________

*The UNCIP unanimously adopted this Resolution on 13-8-1948.
Members of the Commission: Argentina. Belgium, Columbia, Czechoslovakia and U.S.A.
 

desicad

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
...........The local population of Poonch began to press the Maharaja to accede to Pakistan. In August 1947, they held a massive demonstration to protest against the Maharaja's indecisiveness. The Maharaja panicked. He asked his Hindu paratroopers to open fire, and within a matter of seconds, several hundred Muslims were killed. Rising up against this brutal action, a local barrister called Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim immediately set up the Azad Kashmir government and began to wage guerrilla warfare against the Maharaja..........
These were not mere protests, but trying to undermine the authority of the Maharaja and such protest which challenge the writ of the state needs to be put down with force. Also the paratroopers were both hindus and muslims. You should write several hundred protesters were killed, no point bringing religion in everything. Thanks.
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The state of Azad Jammu & Kashmir has asked for help from Pakistan for various reasons ,so how is that different from when the maharajaa asked for help from india?
How much is minimum force needed to bring order and peace? A ratio of 1 soldoer to 7 citizens bespeaks of not peace but hagemoney and occupation.
UNO may not take note but we do and understand very very well the intentions of the indians behind the deceptions and facade created.

Also note how Goa was occupied in 1957(I think, I will do some research I/A), and the dispute with Andeman Islands is also to be raised in the near future I/A.
Abhi to aap kay saath bohat say muamilat per baat cheet honee hai!
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Moral of the story??

Know your rights and go get it, NEVER ASK. Indian will give in if she receievd boot on her butts. Very soon InshaAllah

Khalistan zindabad
Pakistan Pa-indabad
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
gazoomartian said:
Moral of the story??

Know your rights and go get it, NEVER ASK. Indian will give in if she receievd boot on her butts. Very soon InshaAllah

Khalistan zindabad
Pakistan Pa-indabad

Very true. u have to have power for your rights.
Lets see when the final will be played.
ZH is right....
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
desicad said:
...........The local population of Poonch began to press the Maharaja to accede to Pakistan. In August 1947, they held a massive demonstration to protest against the Maharaja's indecisiveness. The Maharaja panicked. He asked his Hindu paratroopers to open fire, and within a matter of seconds, several hundred Muslims were killed. Rising up against this brutal action, a local barrister called Sardar Muhammad Ibrahim immediately set up the Azad Kashmir government and began to wage guerrilla warfare against the Maharaja..........
These were not mere protests, but trying to undermine the authority of the Maharaja and such protest which challenge the writ of the state needs to be put down with force. Also the paratroopers were both hindus and muslims. You should write several hundred protesters were killed, no point bringing religion in everything. Thanks.

Equate this with the Mukti Bahni which was challenging the writ of the government of Pakistan and remember the role of the indian state in 1971?
Is your argument always that what india says and does only that is right and justified? If so then it is only a matter of time,you must know 'What goes around comes around'
we call it 'Makafat-e-amal'. What do you call it?
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
Star Gazer said:
Dear friends

http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articlet ... =A052&Pg=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
.......storymadeupbypakistan
onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to the document it the matter was brought to UNO by Pakistan. I am amazed the Poonchi tribesman could not make any headway into Kashimir because they got busy looting and Killing the very same people they came to liberate. Same people claim the be their self imposed big brothers.
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Whats Up Doc said:
Star Gazer":21bk70df]Dear friends [url="http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articletext.asp?artid=A052&Pg=4 said:
http://www.storyofpakistan.com/articlet ... =A052&Pg=4[/url]" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
.......storymadeupbypakistan
onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to the document it the matter was brought to UNO by Pakistan. I am amazed the Poonchi tribesman could not make any headway into Kashimir because they got busy looting and Killing the very same people they came to liberate. Same people claim the be their self imposed big brothers.[/quote:21bk70df]

Typical defeatist attitude, when you can not argue with logic try to bedazzzle with *&^
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
Star Gazer said:
Typical defeatist attitude, when you can not argue with logic try to bedazzzle with *&^

The article from storymadepbypakistan statesIn January 1948, India took the dispute to the Security Council.

The Document I posted states. Pakistan brought its case in the UNO;
A. (l) As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.

Only one can be true now you tell me which one is true. That is a logical argument. I believe the one signed by the commission of the UN along with five member states. Your answer is.........................?
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
My answer is the same.No point in reapeating the same questions and answers to no avail. Jo wada keya hai nibhana parega!
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
Star Gazer said:
My answer is the same.No point in reapeating the same questions and answers to no avail. Jo wada keya hai nibhana parega!

Star Gazer could have answered by displaying my question may I know why the moderator deleted my question.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
Whats Up Doc said:
[quote="Star Gazer":1o4arlel]My answer is the same.No point in reapeating the same questions and answers to no avail. Jo wada keya hai nibhana parega!

Star Gazer could have answered by displaying my question may I know why the moderator deleted my question.[/quote:1o4arlel]

Thank you- you proved that you are a fair moderator and Pakipatriot is totaly wrong about you.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
gazoomartian said:
Moral of the story??

Know your rights and go get it, NEVER ASK. Indian will give in if she receievd boot on her butts. Very soon InshaAllah

Khalistan zindabad
Pakistan Pa-indabad

First you must take your foot out off the mouth before you look for a BOOT [hilar]
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Whats Up Doc said:
[quote="Star Gazer":3kiuedb5]My answer is the same.No point in reapeating the same questions and answers to no avail. Jo wada keya hai nibhana parega!

Star Gazer could have answered by displaying my question may I know why the moderator deleted my question.[/quote:3kiuedb5]

I am sure of that. I also have no idea what question got deleted but I trust whoever did it had good reason.
 

IndiaGuy

Senator (1k+ posts)
Raaz said:
gazoomartian said:
Moral of the story??

Know your rights and go get it, NEVER ASK. Indian will give in if she receievd boot on her butts. Very soon InshaAllah

Khalistan zindabad
Pakistan Pa-indabad

Very true. u have to have power for your rights.
Lets see when the final will be played.
ZH is right....
how many more finals you want to play??
1947 final you lost kashmir to india
1971--final you lost to india-bangladesh
2000- you lost kargil to india

next final you will rest of the pakistan to india..
no more finals then after...
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Star Gazer said:
The state of Azad Jammu & Kashmir has asked for help from Pakistan for various reasons ,so how is that different from when the maharajaa asked for help from india?
How much is minimum force needed to bring order and peace? A ratio of 1 soldoer to 7 citizens bespeaks of not peace but hagemoney and occupation.
UNO may not take note but we do and understand very very well the intentions of the indians behind the deceptions and facade created.

Also note how Goa was occupied in 1957(I think, I will do some research I/A), and the dispute with Andeman Islands is also to be raised in the near future I/A.
Abhi to aap kay saath bohat say muamilat per baat cheet honee hai!

woh din door naheen jub hum musalman hind ki bu hozoor (s.a.w.) key pesh-e-khidmat hazir kareingey inshaAllah

We are going thru a cleansing process. afala ta'qeloon?
 

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
hi sobia , congrats on becoming the mod, lol ...i was wondering why a mod was telling the indians off...nehoo as i said before, let the kashmiris deal with their own problems , frankly speaking im a little dissapointed and pissed off at them...they do not consider the kashmiris on our side kashmiri so i say stuff em , my uncle lost his leg in kashmir when he was only 13 but he hasnt complained once about pakistan...india cannot deal with the many different insurgencies going on on their soil so the matter will solve itself ,and theyre only going to get worse...they will have much bigger problems to deal with in the coming years...I like the title of this discussion but facts mean nothing to them unless they come from wikipedia or bal thakaray so why bother. You have already experienced their lack of knowledge and their ability to shift the discussion away from the topic and talking about other issues that are not even remotely associated with the Kashmir issue. They use their propaganda to relate kashmir to Balochistan and Pukhtoon khwa, but most of them dont realize that balochistan and pukhtoon khwa chose to be with pakistan and have not had a military presence in 60 years, 20-30 percent of our army is pukhtoon, there are more pukhtoons living in pakistan then in afghanistan , there are more pukhtoons living in karachi and other parts of pakistan than pukhtoon khwa, there are more balochis living outside balochistan than in balochistan..They can try their best to use internet propaganda and make balochi user names but it will never work because the balochis and the puktoon are not traitors, especially not the puktoons. The balochis are alittle pissed off but they will come around with the right attitude inshallah. My humble request to you all is stop inviting them here for discussion because it only leaves us with a bad taste.
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Owners/moderators have every right to delete any or all posts as they see fit. They dont need to explain or appologize. Their decision can not be challenged.

If people dont like it then either behave or leave, simple as that

Its like cricket. Umpire rulings can not be challenged
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
furry87 said:
hi sobia , congrats on becoming the mod, lol ...i was wondering why a mod was telling the indians off...nehoo as i said before, let the kashmiris deal with their own problems , frankly speaking im a little dissapointed and pissed off at them...they do not consider the kashmiris on our side kashmiri so i say stuff em , my uncle lost his leg in kashmir when he was only 13 but he hasnt complained once about pakistan...india cannot deal with the many different insurgencies going on on their soil so the matter will solve itself ,and theyre only going to get worse...they will have much bigger problems to deal with in the coming years...I like the title of this discussion but facts mean nothing to them unless they come from wikipedia or bal thakaray so why bother. You have already experienced their lack of knowledge and their ability to shift the discussion away from the topic and talking about other issues that are not even remotely associated with the Kashmir issue. They use their propaganda to relate kashmir to Balochistan and Pukhtoon khwa, but most of them dont realize that balochistan and pukhtoon khwa chose to be with pakistan and have not had a military presence in 60 years, 20-30 percent of our army is pukhtoon, there are more pukhtoons living in pakistan then in afghanistan , there are more pukhtoons living in karachi and other parts of pakistan than pukhtoon khwa, there are more balochis living outside balochistan than in balochistan..They can try their best to use internet propaganda and make balochi user names but it will never work because the balochis and the puktoon are not traitors, especially not the puktoons. The balochis are alittle pissed off but they will come around with the right attitude inshallah. My humble request to you all is stop inviting them here for discussion because it only leaves us with a bad taste.


time is coming soon. yeh toofan ka pesh kheema hai and Indians know it. Why do you think they got in bed with americans? Hind is worried to death. They read Qur'an and hadith too to see what is in the store for muslims and to prepare against it. But what cant comprehend is that the Qur'an and hadeeths can be fought. Fighter will be the end looser