Muḥammad ibn Yūsuf al-Firabrī And The Not So Sahih Bukhari - Part 2

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
In recent times, a robust and widespread discussion has emerged around the authenticity and sanctity of Sahih al-Bukhari. This is not a new controversy, nor is it limited to a few isolated voices. From the Arab world to the Urdu-speaking scholarly circles, and beyond, this discourse is increasingly gaining traction. The purpose of this article is to critically analyze the issues surrounding Sahih al-Bukhari, raise valid questions, and promote transparency without discarding our scholarly tradition.

My critique is not rooted in ignorance or malice, but in a sincere desire for intellectual honesty and reform.

The Growing Critique This discussion has gained momentum globally. In the Arab world, academic and religious forums alike are revisiting the role and content of Sahih al-Bukhari. Debates on TV shows, YouTube channels, and academic institutions reflect that this is far from a fringe idea. It reflects the level of frustration and disillusionment felt by many when confronted with problematic hadith content.

The Core Issues So why raise this issue now? There are three main concerns:

  1. Near-Divine Status of Bukhari:
    • Sahih al-Bukhari is often treated as sacrosanct, practically on par with the Quran in the eyes of many Muslims.
    • While people might verbally deny this equivalence, in practice, Bukhari is rarely—if ever—criticized.
    • Even verses of the Quran are sometimes sidelined if they contradict hadith in Bukhari.
  2. Problematic Hadith Content:
    • Some hadith within Bukhari are, quite frankly, blasphemous, irrational, or degrading.
    • Examples include narrations where the Prophet supposedly tried to seduce a woman and was rejected, or that Musa (Moses) had a scrotal hernia and chased after a rock that stole his clothes.
    • Other narrations suggest that the Prophet was affected by magic to the point he hallucinated having sexual relations with his wives.
    • Such narrations are not just questionable—they are deeply offensive to many Muslims and undermine the dignity of our prophets.
  3. Transmission Integrity:
    • The entire text of Sahih al-Bukhari as we have it today is reliant on one main narrator: Muhammad ibn Yusuf al-Farabi.
    • His manuscript was incomplete, and his students made alterations.
    • Various manuscripts show discrepancies in chapter titles, chains of transmission (isnads), and even hadith content.
    • Later scholars like Sharafuddin al-Yunini attempted to standardize the text but even his manuscript is lost. All we have are copies made by others, some of whom were financially incentivized.
    • Even those standardized editions were later found to contain hundreds of errors.
We cannot afford to live in a bubble of censorship and denial in an age of information. Our faith is not so fragile that it cannot withstand scrutiny.

Why is it that people can critique the Quran in its meaning and wisdom without causing an uproar, but Bukhari is untouchable? Why is reason and the Quran itself sidelined when a hadith in Bukhari contradicts them?


Lets look at this person Frabari in detail is this person farabri reliable? Bukhari had many students according to Frabri himself Khatib al-Baghdadi brings a chain quoting Frabri to say there were 90 000 people who transmitted Bukhari from imam bukhari and then he goes on to say but none of them are alive today except me. There were many others who transmitted but none of their complete copies exist today and we have already covered that in part 1 Like Ibrahim Ibn Ma'qal but even his version of Bukhari has only 1200 hadith out of the over 7700 in the complete Bukhari.

So now we are left with every copy traced back to Frabri, so as per hadith sciences he has to be vouched for? But why did nobody declare
him to be reliable this is the question because he lives in a time where he is rubbing shoulders with some of these great scholars he's obviously met bukhari he's in the time of people like Tirmidi, Abu Dawood, he's in the time of Abu Hatim, Abu Zu'rah, he's in the time of Ni'sai. He's in the time of all of these great and some of them are junior to him or like some of them may be senior
nobody who actually knows him ever vouched for him as reliable.

Yes their have been claims that he is been reliable by "many scholars". The question is when they say he is reliable, who has vouched for him? The earliest that they're going with are people that first of all never ever met him, came over a hundred years after him and then secondly it's very suspect that they even said this because it's not in their books, so it's highly suspect.

So bridge this gaping chasm the scholars come up with because people transmitted from him that should make him reliable because he had at least one scholar of hadith called Al-Hafiz Ibn Sakan who transmits from him therefore it should be at least fine. But you see even Ibn Sakan who takes Bukhari from Frabari even he doesn't declare him to be reliable but the scholars insist that this should make him reliable. Ibn Sakan by the way is know from his extremely leniency and relaxed attitude and almost willy accept hadith and declare people thiqa or reliable and even he hasn't declared Frabri thiqa!

Even the great scholar Khateeb Al Baghdadi said, if a scholar transmits from somebody that does not mean they are declaring them reliable. And that anybody who believes that just because someone transmitted from someone makes him reliable is absolutely false and baseless. Which should be the case because then everybody would be reliable when it comes to hadith and history.

And now we come to a even bigger problem than just Frabri himself. We've established that no one vouched for him as reliable and those who did or were made to seem so also have issues. But even bigger issue is that we don't even have Frabris own copy of Bukhari and thats where the real problems start to surface. Frabri's student Abu Ishaq al-Mustamli says I copied from Frabris copy of Bukhari and I saw many things that there were many thing that were still incomplete in Frabri's copy. He had chapter headings which were empty, they had no hadith in them, some hadith with no chapter heading and he says so we started to move them around.

And what proves this to be true is ( As said by Abu al-Walid al-Bājī in Fath al-Bārī by Ibn Ḥajar ) that Mustamli's copy, Sarakhsi's copy, Kushmahīn's copy, Marwazi's copy are all different, so it shows, despite them taking from one book how are they all different? And they are not minor differences or mixups, disagreement with names and actual names in the isnad are missing as well.

SO Frabri's students did as each of them pleased with Frabri's incomplete copy of Bukhari.

The the Mamluk Sultan of Egypt and Syria commissions Al Yunini to standardize the Bukhari. So he does his grand makeover project with massive monetary backing from the Sultan to get it right. Yunini makes huge amendments and he sits with the grammarian Ibn Malik and they then make amendments to the Arabic as well. Question is why were there such big errors even in the Arabic itself in the first place?

And then Al Yuninis grand copy also goes missing and we only have copies from his copy which then later on are redone again by
under the commissioning of Sultan Abdul Hamid II of the Ottoman empire and even that has several mistakes in it. The point is can the scholars answer all these things and the answer is they can't.

Let's look at that claim once again shall we, the claim is that, this is the most authentic book on planet earth for Muslims after the Quran. Well after having read through all of that, keeping in mind we haven't even touched upon the problem with Imam Bukhari himself and he was well known for doing tadlis among MANY other things, it would be absolutely absurd to even think of Bukhari as the most authentic book.

Another question and this might be slightly conspiratorial that comes to mind is having gone through so many hands and before so many eyes over so many centuries, how come so many hadith still being published till this day, that make no sense and just a jumble of words, to hadith that have grammatical errors, to hadith that go against the Quran to hadith that are down right insulting to Allah, deen and the prophets. How come these hadiths haven't been omitted or filtered out in all this time and purposely kept in?

The time for blind reverence is over. The time for honest conversation has begun.
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
It is very clear that Allah Himself is enough to explain His own Quran. The terminologies "Quran-o-Hadith" and "Quan-o-Sunnah" are not in Allah's Quran and are not authorized terminologies. These are man-invented terminologies. If you are perplexed, read Allah's Quran yourself, and then you will come to know the realities. All the Mullahs of the "Ummah" stop people from reading Allah's Quran alone, directly without ahadith, Tafseer, or man-made books, because these Mullahs know that they will not be needed anymore.
Think again, The Messenger is a Messenger, because he has "The Message." Remember, without "The Message", the Messenger is not a Messenger. And again, remember that without Bukhari and Muslims, the Messenger is a Messenger, because he has "The Message".

"Certainly, there is for you in the Messenger of Allah a good example for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and who remembers Allah much." (Al-Ahzaab-21)
What is a Good Example in the Messenger of Allah that we should follow?? The Quran, and only The Quran alone.
"Say (O Muhammad), 'I am not something new (different) among the Messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner." (Al-Ahqaaf-9)"Say (O Muhammad): “It is not for me to change it on my own accord. I follow not but that which is revealed unto me. Indeed, I fear, if I were to disobey my Lord, the punishment of a Great Day.” (Younus-15)"Say (O Muhammad): “I do not say to you that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor that I know the Unseen (Ghaib). And I do not say to you that I am an angel.
I follow only that which is revealed to me.” Say: “Are the blind and the seer equal? Do you not then reflect?” (Al-Anaam-50)
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
"These are the verses of God that We recite to you with truth. Then in what 'Hadith' (statement/narrative) after God and His 'Ayat' (verses) will they believe?"
(Quran: 45:6)
 

saleema

Senator (1k+ posts)
"These are the verses of God that We recite to you with truth. Then in what 'Hadith' (statement/narrative) after God and His 'Ayat' (verses) will they believe?"
(Quran: 45:6)
[/QUOTE
Hadith = baatain in Urdu. It's not referred to Ahadith Rasool A.S. Arabs use ( Kalam, Hadith, Hakee, Rasm) for normal talking.

Whoever wrote this article is a fool, ignorant and has a superficial understanding just to make an argument for the sole purpose of ikhtilaaf. I don't want to comment on everything in this article but even the first claim that people who follow quran and hadiths consider Bukhari as divine and sometimes ayaths are sidelined if it contradicts Bukhari is utterly wrong. I don't believe in sects like Deobandi/ Brailvis/Shia etc but come on find any followers of Ahadiths who have such claim that Bukhari is divine. Can you bring one such example of traditional Muslims oral and written academic reference which claims Bukhari is divine and it's equal to quran or even comparable in authority to quran? Before posting such stuff why don't you do your own research as what is
take of the mainstream traditional and jamhoor Muslims?
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Whoever wrote this article is a fool, ignorant and has a superficial understanding just to make an argument for the sole purpose of ikhtilaaf.
I authored this article based on the research of a mufti with Ijaza, aalim, hafiz with expertize in hadith studies. Everything mentioned here can be backed up from books written by your own great and well known classical scholars.

I don't want to comment on everything in this article
Maybe you should because everything here can be referenced back to books from your traditional well know and accepted mainstream scholars.

but even the first claim that people who follow quran and hadiths consider Bukhari as divine
You don't want me to be posting clips from Arab scholars and imams who say not rejecting just having doubt about any hadith no matter how ridiculous they are if they are graded sahih makes you a kaffir and that hadith are from Allah i.e making them divine, now do you?

But as mentioned in my original post although no one says it or intentionally thinks like that but that is the case, just like the Shia's have elevated Ali and their imam's to demi god like status and above the rasool although ask any shia and he will flatly outline deny it and call you crazy for even making such a claim. Its exactly the same thing here.

Before posting such stuff why don't you do your own research as what is take of the mainstream traditional and jamhoor Muslims?
What makes you think I haven't? I've spent literally 90% of my life living and studying like the traditional Muslims.

Also why do keep dodging my question, since you are so ingrained in Arab culture and understand so many dialects and more fluent than native speakers and enjoy listening to Arabic poetry and have lived all across the Arab lands and have read this and read that.

How you actually read all of Sahih Bukhari or not? Its not that hard of a question that you keep avoiding it.
 

observer-x

MPA (400+ posts)
"These are the verses of God that We recite to you with truth. Then in what 'Hadith' (statement/narrative) after God and His 'Ayat' (verses) will they believe?"
(Quran: 45:6)
You're so obsessed with the word حديث , even though you know it means statement but you still write it down to satisfy your hatred of sunnah.

جهالت at its peak.
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
You're so obsessed with the word حديث , even though you know it means statement but you still write it down to satisfy your hatred of sunnah.

جهالت at its peak.
So you think that the Quran authorises the Ahadith of the Messenger?
جهالت at its peak.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
So you think that the Quran authorises the Ahadith of the Messenger?
جهالت at its peak.
Of course he does. Even though the entire Quran is void of any unambiguous verse that says to follow the sunnah or hadith of the rasool. In fact that phrase sunnat ur rasool does not even appear in the Quran.

They think dressing up in a thobe, having beards, trimming moustaches, wearing short dhotis, cleaning teeth with miswak, sleeping on their sides etc etc is following and obeying the messenger! 🙄
 

saleema

Senator (1k+ posts)
EDIT : It should actually say. Have you actually read all of Sahih Bukhari
I haven't read all of Sahih Bukhari, Those are around 6000 to 7000 narrations with around 2000 are the most authentic ones after rigorous analysis of many centuries and still open to criticism, debate and synthesis. I have read a big chunk of it. It doesn't take more than a couple of weeks to read. I don't consider Ahadiths as a problem as long as it doesn't contradicts with Quran. Similarly, I don't have any problem with getting help from Israliyaat until unless it becomes some sort of supernatural stories. As a Muslim I should be open to listen to criticism on the authenticity of some or many ahadeeths and I enjoy the different approaches of scrutiny by Quranic and Hadith scholars. But, to deny the whole tradition of more than 1200 years, I can't. Why a Muslim will have such a hostile approach to aqwaals of Rasool A.S.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
I haven't read all of Sahih Bukhari
Well I have all 9 juz cover to cover, so maybe I should also act like most of your scholars and even just regular posters here and maybe even you.. Oh you haven't even read it how are you even qualified to talk about soemething you haven't even read. blah blah blah blah.

I don't consider Ahadiths as a problem as long as it doesn't contradicts with Quran
They in their essence contradict the Quran, just their existence contradicts with it.

Similarly, I don't have any problem with getting help from Israliyaat
Why do you need help from fairytales? Isn't Allah's guidance enough?

But, to deny the whole tradition of more than 1200 years, I can't.
Quran multiple times warns people to blindly follow tradition. Tradition has 0 authority or importance in the deen.

I can't. Why a Muslim will have such a hostile approach to aqwaals of Rasool A.S.
You can't even prove they are. The whole methodology is so janky and is nothing but hearsay and rumors.
 

observer-x

MPA (400+ posts)
Of course he does. Even though the entire Quran is void of any unambiguous verse that says to follow the sunnah or hadith of the rasool. In fact that phrase sunnat ur rasool does not even appear in the Quran.

They think dressing up in a thobe, having beards, trimming moustaches, wearing short dhotis, cleaning teeth with miswak, sleeping on their sides etc etc is following and obeying the messenger! 🙄
Of course why would anyone consider that as compared to Parwezi religion -

no salah
no fast
no nikah/ marriage - just reproduce more bastards
no hajj
no dhikr
no zakah/ charity

Live like animals, roam freely in wildlife 🤣 😂
 

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