Muḥammad ibn Yūsuf al-Firabrī : The Unknown Man On Whose Shoulders Traditional Islam Stands On.

عؔلی خان

MPA (400+ posts)
You said:

"How does obeying God and His Messenger mean we must follow man-made Hadith..."

Let’s be precise.

You keep dodging the actual Qur’an

Here’s what the Qur’an says:

  • “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...” (4:59)
  • “Take what the Messenger gives you and abstain from what he forbids.” (59:7)
  • “We sent down the Book to you so that you may explain to people what was revealed...” (16:44)
  • “He teaches them the Book and the Wisdom...” (2:151, 62:2)
  • “Whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has been made clear… We will leave him to what he has chosen.” (4:115)

You haven’t answered a single one of these.

You keep demanding a “clear verse.” I’ve now given you at least five.

Your response?

Deflect with Hadith preservation history — not Qur’anic refutation.

You’re Avoiding the Qur’an Because It Doesn’t Support You

Your claim: “Hadith are man-made and full of contradictions.”
Then show me:
  • Name three authentic (Sahih) Hadith with proven isnad that contradict the Qur’an.
  • Name three that are “insults” — and prove they’re fabricated using hadith methodology.

You won’t — because you’re not interested in filtering authentic from weak Hadith.
You’re throwing out the entire Sunnah, which the Qur’an commands us to obey.

That’s like rejecting math because some people got wrong answers once.

You said,

“Hadith was written 200 years later”

False.

  • Hadith were memorized, taught, and written during the Prophet’s time.
    • The Sahifah of Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As is one of many early written collections.
    • Imam Malik’s Muwatta was compiled in the 100s AH, less than a century after the Prophet’s passing.
  • The formal compilations (like Bukhari, Muslim) came after generations of transmission and vetting.

If writing date = invalidity, then the Qur’an itself would be questionable — because the compiled mushaf was finalized under Uthman (RA), not in the Prophet’s lifetime.

Yet you accept it.

Why? Because of chain-based transmissionthe same science used in Hadith.

You can’t have it both ways.
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You claim to obey the Qur’an. But when the Qur’an tells you:
  • Obey the Messenger
  • Follow his judgment
  • Take what he gives
  • Avoid what he forbids
…you say: “That doesn’t mean Hadith!”

So let me ask you this:
  • If not through Hadith and Sunnah — how do we obey the Prophet?
  • How do we “take what he gives” if we’re not allowed to preserve what he gave?

You can’t answer, because your entire model collapses the moment Prophetic guidance is treated as meaningful.

You don’t have a Qur’anic Islam.

You have a Messengerless Qur’an — and that’s a contradiction of the very Book you claim to follow.
 

عؔلی خان

MPA (400+ posts)
You said:

“There is absolutely no verse where Allah commands us to follow something outside the Qur’an.”

You’ve already been shown these:
  • “Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...” (4:59, 8:20, 24:54, 64:12)
  • “Take what the Messenger gives you, and abstain from what he forbids.” (59:7)
  • “Let those beware who go against his command...” (24:63)
  • “We sent down the Reminder so you may explain to the people what was revealed to them.” (16:44)
  • “Whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has been made clear to him...” (4:115)
All of these are commands from Allah.

If the Prophet’s only job was to “deliver the Qur’an,” these verses would be redundant.

You don’t get to call yourself a Qur’an follower and then ignore half a dozen verses from the Qur’an.

The Qur’an Commands Obedience to the Messenger — And You’re Running from It


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Hikmah = Guidance alongside the Book


Your entire objection to “Hikmah” boils down to:

“Allah gives Hikmah to whom He wills.” (2:269)

Yes, exactly — and He gave it to His Messenger, and commanded him to teach it alongside the Book:

  • “...reciting to them Your verses and teaching them the Book and the Wisdom.” (2:129, 2:151, 62:2)

This is a pairing, not poetic repetition. Tafsir from Ibn Kathir, Al-Shafi‘i, Al-Qurtubi, and others affirms:

Hikmah = the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH)

You haven’t quoted a single reputable mufassir. Instead, you keep asserting, “The Qur’an explains itself!” while ignoring when it says:


“The Messenger explains it.” (16:44)

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77:50 and 45:6: “Hadith” doesn’t mean what you think it means

You keep repeating:

“So in what Hadith after it will they believe?” (77:50, 45:6)

Let’s explain this for the last time:
  • “Hadith” means speech, report, narrative — depending on context.
  • In 45:6 and 77:50, Allah is condemning those who reject divine revelation and instead chase after idle talk, false tales, and mythology.
You’re trying to use that word to throw out the Prophet’s own teachings — but that backfires.

Because the Qur’an itself says:
  • “Has there come to you the hadith (narration) of Musa?” (79:15)
  • “We relate to you the best of hadith (stories).” (12:3)

If “hadith” always meant evil or false, the Qur’an would be condemning its own verses.

Your "logic" collapses on its own weight.


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You said:

“The Prophet's job was to deliver the Qur’an — not leave behind a deen scattered in bits and pieces.”

But the Prophet (PBUH):
  • Taught prayer through action
  • Judged disputes
  • Led battles
  • Commanded zakat
  • Explained ayat (see Ibn Abbas)
  • Was obeyed by the companions in ways not written in the Qur’an
And you want us to believe that none of this mattered? That the people who:
  • Memorized the Qur’an
  • Transmitted it to us
  • Defended it in battle
...somehow became innovators and liars when it came to the Prophet’s teachings?

That’s not just flawed. It’s an insult to the very people Allah says:

  • “The first and foremost from the Muhajirun and Ansar... Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him.” (9:100)

You trust their Qur’an, but reject their Sunnah?

That’s not Qur’an-only Islam. That’s ego-only Islam.

You’re not following the Prophet’s example — and you know it

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You’ve now:
  • Ignored the Qur’an’s commands to obey the Messenger
  • Denied what Hikmah means in classical tafsir
  • Misused “Hadith” verses out of context
  • Refused to engage with scholarly tradition
  • Reduced Islam to a slogan: “Just the Qur’an”

But you still haven’t answered the core question:

How do you obey the Prophet — without preserving what he said, did, or taught?

You can’t.

Because the Qur’an doesn’t support your model — it destroys it.

Let the readers decide who is actually submitting to the Qur’an.
 

2kamatka

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
You guys have so much time on your hands, it seems almost like that you are getting paid for it. Always fighting about some unreal issues
 

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