RAF Eurofighter Typhoons 'beaten by Pakistani F-16s

MediaCell

Voter (50+ posts)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/08/eurofighter_beaten_by_f16/

eurofighter_formation.jpg


We have got the talent and potential, just need to get rid of this corrupt civil/military leadership


http://www.facebook.com/PTIManchester
 
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king1982

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
This is the mind conditioning being done by the media and the crooks from PMLN to hate the armed forces. So much so that the achievements of our brave armed forces at international is being looked down. For sake if you hate the armed forces so much go and defend the borders yourself
 

KhanHaripur

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
RAF Eurofighter Typhoons 'beaten by Pakistani F-16s

Three-nil, apparently. Brit flyboys 'shocked'
By Lewis PageGet more from this author
Posted in Government, 8th June 2011 10:00 GMT
Pakistani pilots flying modernised versions of the 1970s-vintage F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF's brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon superfighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer.
eurofighter_formation.jpg
Costs like a Raptor, flies like a Tornado

This interview with an unnamed but evidently experienced Pakistani Air Force (PAF) F-16 pilot on exchange with the Turkish air force, posted on the official site of the PAF display team, includes the following intriguing passage. (Hat tip to the excellent DEW Line blog for flagging this up.)
Q: Any memorable experiences that you would like to share? A: On one occasion – in one of the international Anatolian Eagles - PAF pilots were pitted against RAF Typhoons, a formidable aircraft. There were three set-ups and in all three, we shot down the Typhoons. The RAF pilots were shocked.
Q: Any particular reason for your success?
A: NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat. They are trained for BVR [Beyond Visual Range] engagements and their tactics are based on BVR engagements. These were close-in air combat exercises and we had the upper hand because close-in air combat is drilled into every PAF pilot and this is something we are very good at.
The Anatolian Eagle air-combat exercises are hosted by the Turkish air force and would have seen Pakistani pilots on exchange with the Turks flying modernised Turkish "Block 50" F-16s, a much-upgraded version of the original US made 1970s Fighting Falcon, which is now in service with many air forces and assembled under licence in various countries including Turkey.
 

softlink

Citizen
gunja noon munafiq aur jamati munafiq Pakistan ko tabah aur barbad kar rahey hain aur bus koi aur kaam nahi bus musharraf aur mqm ko galian do aur khud ko Islam ka sab say bara munafiq thekedar samjhoo. kuch munafiq thakey dar idhar bhi wohi mushaaraff aur mqm ko galian denay wali harkatain kartey rahtey hain halankay khud doob rahey hain.
 

habib22

MPA (400+ posts)
what do think who is defending border now , American do not afred of cowerd Pakistani Generals or the brave Army because they trained these generals, American are scared to attack coz they are affread of pakistani citizens who live in those mountains, in fact those Phathan are defending Pakistani Borders not Army
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Some people have now been exposed beyond doubt, of their deep resentment against the accomplishments of the Pakistani braves. It is so obvious that they are absolutley set to defame and make fun of any act and they will do it at the cost of anything. They are pretending to be the Hamdard of the nation but I have no doubts that they will be the first to turn their backs on the people when the time is right for them.
Thus ignore these elements and their gruesome soiled comments.
We need to be positive and if some one is adamant on pushing the negetives in our faces then I will be very careful as to what they are saying.
 

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Some people have now been exposed beyond doubt, of their deep resentment against the accomplishments of the Pakistani braves. It is so obvious that they are absolutley set to defame and make fun of any act and they will do it at the cost of anything. They are pretending to be the Hamdard of the nation but I have no doubts that they will be the first to turn their backs on the people when the time is right for them.
Thus ignore these elements and their gruesome soiled comments.
We need to be positive and if some one is adamant on pushing the negetives in our faces then I will be very careful as to what they are saying.

Look brother, accept it Pakistan is one of the most unfortunate country, it has so many traitors, from ordinary people to some top brass.
Problem is we have become corrupt to the core. Our morals are in decline, we find any old excuse to blame Pakistan and belittle it.
Today, I have been banned from defence.pk forum, because an Indian complained that I have abused a country by writing, for the Audi A6 to be produced in India. That Audi is quite a fuel consuming vehicle. How ordinary Indians can afford to run such a car? And jokingly adding that have they invented an engine running on "Cow Piss". Initially I was just given a warning. But when I picked the comments by Indians from just one thread on interview of Gen Hamid Gul on RT and reported them to the admin for exactly the same thing Indians complained, the moderators banned me for a week.

Now I have to do a campaign against the forum and expose them. Problem is all these Pakistani forums deliberately allow Indians to participate for the traffic so they can make more money. As a matter of fact, it only takes from $10 a month to run a website. Not a big deal if you have spare time to run it. Moral of the story is from these mushrooms Pakistanis running websites and forums to Zardari, we all are using the name of Pakistan to make a quick buck.
If I wanted I easily could have gone down that line, but I didn't I only use my forums to publish my material, so no one can delete it or ban me for criticising the forum.

But whatever, I write what I want and not bind by any Tom, Dick and Harry. Those who had been reading my comments, know, I don't use bad language or inappropriate comments, but I am just honest and straight. Indians don't like it, I was giving them a tough time, therefore, they keep complaining. But look around Pakistani forums, they allow Indians to use every imaginable insults against Pakistan and Pakistanis without any action taken against them, but if you write something, you would be reprimanded.

Like I said, too many Pakistanis are with their agendas, no love for Pakistan and pride in it. Pakistan is one of the most unfortunate country in the world. Look in the west, nobody ever criticise their country, they criticise their governments, persons but not country.
 

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Indians have short listed Euro Fighter for MMCA

The amazing thing is, the Indians have short listed Euro Fighter and French Rafale for their MMCA project. Please read this report on Euro Fighter jets, over cost, extremely expensive and problem with spare parts.
As for Rafale it is not been bought by any other Air Force in the world and only used by the French. Good luck to India.:lol::lol:

Probably the most dismal figure we are given is that the RAF will actually put into service just 107 Typhoons. At the moment it has received 70: the last of the 160 planes ordered by the UK will be delivered in 2015. But, we are told, "by 2019" all the Tranche 1 jets (which were still being delivered to the RAF at the start of 2008) will be "retired" – that is, thrown away. We'll pay for 160 jets (actually we'll pay for 2321), but we'll only ever get a fleet of 107.

This shows the acquisition cost of the Eurofighter/Typhoon in an even worse light than it had previously appeared, when an RAF fleet of 160 had been expected. It is now acknowledged that the development and production cost to the UK of Eurofighter will be 23bn with planned upgrades.

This means that we UK taxpayers will have shelled out no less than 215m for each of our 107 jets – that's $350m at today's rates, rather more than the US taxpayers have been made to pay for each of their 185 Raptor superfighters2, almost all of which will be used operationally. And the Raptor has third-generation Stealth: the Eurofighter has no stealth features at all. The Raptor has thrust vectoring for unbeatable manoeuvrability in a dogfight: the Eurofighter doesn't.

The Raptor is a hugely more sophisticated and powerful aircraft, and is actually – astonishingly – somewhat cheaper, despite the fact that it is being made in much smaller numbers than the Eurofighter!

That's a really astonishingly bad bit of value for money on our part.
Unfortunately the problems won't be over when the final RAF Typhoons are delivered. There are major problems with spare parts and support, unsurprisingly as the Eurofighter's manufacturing is distributed across Germany, Spain and Italy as well as the UK. The NAO auditors write:

There are indications of problems with the collaborative contracts for the supply of spares and repair of equipment. There have been shortages of spares and long timescales for equipment repairs on some of these contracts ...
The [2008] spares procurement contract does not include penalties for late delivery ...

To compensate, the Department [the MoD] has had to take parts from some of its Typhoon aircraft to make other aircraft available to fly.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighter_nao_analysis/page2.html

Only selected quotation
 
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M Ali Khan

Minister (2k+ posts)
You mean the American-made F-16s we had been begging for just to make our now-defunct 23 March parades look pretty?

Look brother, accept it Pakistan is one of the most unfortunate country, it has so many traitors, from ordinary people to some top brass.
Problem is we have become corrupt to the core. Our morals are in decline, we find any old excuse to blame Pakistan and belittle it.
Today, I have been banned from defence.pk forum, because an Indian complained that I have abused a country by writing, for the Audi A6 to be produced in India. That Audi is quite a fuel consuming vehicle. How ordinary Indians can afford to run such a car? And jokingly adding that have they invented an engine running on "Cow Piss". Initially I was just given a warning. But when I picked the comments by Indians from just one thread on interview of Gen Hamid Gul on RT and reported them to the admin for exactly the same thing Indians complained, the moderators banned me for a week.

Now I have to do a campaign against the forum and expose them. Problem is all these Pakistani forums deliberately allow Indians to participate for the traffic so they can make more money. As a matter of fact, it only takes from $10 a month to run a website. Not a big deal if you have spare time to run it. Moral of the story is from these mushrooms Pakistanis running websites and forums to Zardari, we all are using the name of Pakistan to make a quick buck.
If I wanted I easily could have gone down that line, but I didn't I only use my forums to publish my material, so no one can delete it or ban me for criticising the forum.

But whatever, I write what I want and not bind by any Tom, Dick and Harry. Those who had been reading my comments, know, I don't use bad language or inappropriate comments, but I am just honest and straight. Indians don't like it, I was giving them a tough time, therefore, they keep complaining. But look around Pakistani forums, they allow Indians to use every imaginable insults against Pakistan and Pakistanis without any action taken against them, but if you write something, you would be reprimanded.

Like I said, too many Pakistanis are with their agendas, no love for Pakistan and pride in it. Pakistan is one of the most unfortunate country in the world. Look in the west, nobody ever criticise their country, they criticise their governments, persons but not country.
Pride is for something you achieve or attain on your own. Not for something that happens by accident of birth.

You want to be a 'proud Pakistani'? QUESTION THE NONSENSE THAT PAKISTANIS ARE EXPECTED TO BELIEVE IN BY OUR OWN DISGUSTING SOCIETY, ESTABLISHMENT, ELDERS, AND SO-CALLED ROLE MODELS!! Rebel against these idiots and accept that NONE OF US ARE SPECIAL!

If you want to take pride in being a Pakistani then DO NOT BE AFRAID OF ADMITTING THE FAULT OF YOUR PEOPLE and stand up for the truth to change the **** that goes on here!

Taking pride in 'being Pakistani' is not supposed to mean have a ridiculous obsession with trying to one-up this country in the eyes of the world when this country (and its people) has single-handedly, with its own marzi, become a country of bigots, thugs, murderers, terrorists, dictators, and what not!

Fight to free yourself from the nonsense that bogs you and everyone of us down, fight to speak the truth and let the truth sink into our awam, fight to demand accountability and transparency in secretive power-hungry organisations, and fight to stop that obsession with blaming India and Jews than accepting that these mistakes have been caused by decades of our own so-called 'protectors' and 'leaders'.

Then you can take pride in being a Pakistani!

Can YOU do that?!
 

rakeem

Senator (1k+ posts)
RAF Eurofighter Tycoons beaten by Pakistani F-16s, how? Who first killed and murdered more Pakistanis.
 

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You mean the American-made F-16s we had been begging for just to make our now-defunct 23 March parades look pretty?


Pride is for something you achieve or attain on your own. Not for something that happens by accident of birth.

You want to be a 'proud Pakistani'? QUESTION THE NONSENSE THAT PAKISTANIS ARE EXPECTED TO BELIEVE IN BY OUR OWN DISGUSTING SOCIETY, ESTABLISHMENT, ELDERS, AND SO-CALLED ROLE MODELS!! Rebel against these idiots and accept that NONE OF US ARE SPECIAL!

If you want to take pride in being a Pakistani then DO NOT BE AFRAID OF ADMITTING THE FAULT OF YOUR PEOPLE and stand up for the truth to change the **** that goes on here!

Taking pride in 'being Pakistani' is not supposed to mean have a ridiculous obsession with trying to one-up this country in the eyes of the world when this country (and its people) has single-handedly, with its own marzi, become a country of bigots, thugs, murderers, terrorists, dictators, and what not!

Fight to free yourself from the nonsense that bogs you and everyone of us down, fight to speak the truth and let the truth sink into our awam, fight to demand accountability and transparency in secretive power-hungry organisations, and fight to stop that obsession with blaming India and Jews than accepting that these mistakes have been caused by decades of our own so-called 'protectors' and 'leaders'.

Then you can take pride in being a Pakistani!

Can YOU do that?!

I criticise people all the time, even Zaid Hamid, despite knowing few people are very found of him here. But criticising Pakistan or bashing Pakistan is not on my agenda.
We didn't beg for F16, we paid for them, waiting for them, even paid for their storage while USA refused to deliver them to us, you should get your facts straight.

As for reliance, it can not come overnight, we have started the self reliance few years back and slowly moving towards it. Result are tanks, missiles, arms and ammunition and now even aircraft JF17. We had in put and participations in FC20, which would be coming next.

Compare to Pakistan's achievement, Indians despite spending may be more than 10 times the money and decades, not able to produce anything comparable. Arjun tank is utter failure, LCA is a failed aircraft in every aspect from angel of attack to pulling enough power, it could only pull 6G while IAF requirement is 9G.

Now, this diabolical decision to acquire Euro Fighter or Rafale. Pakistan has done far better with limited resources compare to India.
But on the flip side, people like you would also criticise the Army for having large budget. How you want them to develop high-tech weapons and Aircraft on no money and be self-sufficient?
 

rakeem

Senator (1k+ posts)
what do think who is defending border now , American do not afred of cowerd Pakistani Generals or the brave Army because they trained these generals, American are scared to attack coz they are affread of pakistani citizens who live in those mountains, in fact those Phathan are defending Pakistani Borders not Army

Don't worry Pakistani army hai na, pehlay inn Pathaanon[Pakistan's first line of defense] ko khatam karegi phir US Pakistan mein aajayegi aur iss army ko khatam kareygi zaleel karkar key, kay yeh naP*k army to dollars kay liye apni maa ko bhi baichday.
 

M Ali Khan

Minister (2k+ posts)
I criticise people all the time, even Zaid Hamid, despite knowing few people are very found of him here. But criticising Pakistan or bashing Pakistan is not on my agenda.
We didn't beg for F16, we paid for them, waiting for them, even paid for their storage while USA refused to deliver them to us, you should get your facts straight.

As for reliance, it can not come overnight, we have started the self reliance few years back and slowly moving towards it. Result are tanks, missiles, arms and ammunition and now even aircraft JF17. We had in put and participations in FC20, which would be coming next.

Compare to Pakistan's achievement, Indians despite spending may be more than 10 times the money and decades, not able to produce anything comparable. Arjun tank is utter failure, LCA is a failed aircraft in every aspect from angel of attack to pulling enough power, it could only pull 6G while IAF requirement is 9G.

Now, this diabolical decision to acquire Euro Fighter or Rafale. Pakistan has done far better with limited resources compare to India.
But on the flip side, people like you would also criticise the Army for having large budget. How you want them to develop high-tech weapons and Aircraft on no money and be self-sufficient?
That's because India has a BIGGER population, a BIGGER army, a BIGGER budget, and a BIGGER educated middle class! You cannot and should not dream of beating them! India sey dosti behtar hai, kyun k dushmani sey hamara sirf nuksaan hua hai! Which is the reason why I criticise Army's massive budget and its anti-India paranoia that has created our own worse enemies!

The Taliban and Jihadis were made to fight India and "liberate" Kashmir (and they failed!!!!) and when Pakistan decided to turn its back on them after 9/11, these Jihadis became worse than India!

India's rather blind insistence on true self-sufficiency has showed they do not have the expertise and reliability to produce this stuff on their own. That's the reason why their LCA, Arjun projects have been white elephants because of insufficient and inefficient designs, demands, and materials.

Our so-called advanced weapons are bad Chinese copies of Russian/American designs that have underpowered engines and poor avionics. No matter what people say about the JF-17s so-called abilities, they rely purely on European avionics and Russian engines because Chinese copies have been mediocre and as a result no one else but Pakistan is buying that stuff!

Lets not forget that the whole Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrar tanks (probably named to impress Arab sheikhs "brothers", only for them to laugh and buy American and Russian tanks instead) were copies of much older and outdated Russian/Chinese tanks with some extra features and modifications that dont do much beyond making HIT Taxila print fancy brochures (I speak from personal experience)!

Hell our nuclear program (which we made by eating too much grass!) relied on stolen blueprints, money begged from Shah of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Libya, throughout the 1970s and 1980s and cheap expertise from China (and missiles from North Korea) to become a success when India's nuclear program was more or less self-made with almost minimal Soviet intervention and this was back in the 1970s (and even that was a joke diwali ka patakha to which Pakistan over-reacted!).

Lets face it, all Pakistan does is get bad business deals with weapons, makes copies with help of China's still inefficient and Russia-reliant defence industry, and try to act all big about the useless fauji junk we have!
 
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crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
That's because India has a BIGGER population, a BIGGER army, a BIGGER budget, and a BIGGER educated middle class! You cannot and should not dream of beating them! India sey dosti behtar hai, kyun k dushmani sey hamara sirf nuksaan hua hai! Which is the reason why I criticise Army's massive budget and its anti-India paranoia that has created our own worse enemies!

This is the exact slave mentality and thinking we are discussing here. Look at this way, we defeated USSR and now USA, so what is India in comparison? Its number is next, India had never been a country it was a hooch pooch of smaller states it is going back to that reality in near future. Every sign is there, but people like you can not see it.

India was bigger, when Muslims captured it and ruled it for almost 1000 years. So what is new?

Your figures are well out of the mark. One reason why I was banned for a week by defence.pk forum is because I was blasting away Indians lies about their economic prosperity with internationally published figures. They didn’t like it and start to complain.

Ms. Roy said in a BBC interview that 80% of Indian lives on Rs20 per day. This is close to 900 million people. The Indians were not happy from her comments, but then I prove from WB figures that she is right. The World Bank uses PPP method of calculation to covert rupees equivalent to dollar. But in reality more than 90% of Indians lives on less than a dollar a day, which means over 1billion Indians are dirt poor. Few billionaires exploiters do not mean Indians are rich or getting richer.

And why would you go against the Army because of Indian size and its economical so called powers?

Don’t forget what Indian media were showing two years ago, 10 steps to annihilate Pakistan. Why you want to spread the lie that Pakistan Military has created India as an enemy? Do you know the history of Kashmir? Do you know the 1947/48 war of Kashmir was fought mainly by the tribes? Pakistan army was not strong at that time. Plus it was lead by a British Commander, who pushed for ceasefire and political solution through UN. Result, we have over 60 years of suffering of Kashmiris and over 100000 killed over the years by Indians. That dithering by British General cost Us Kashmir; we could have liberated it at that time through the tribes. Ceasefire was a bad idea proven from history.

IF Kashmir problem was not there, our relations with Indian would have been different and Pakistan would have been far more prosperous compared to India. Even now, Pakistan can be rich, provided honest leaders are leading it. I can guarantee you if Pakistan is in the hands of people like me it would be debt free in 5 years and wouldn’t have a budget deficit. It is the corrupt politicians who are making Pakistanis suffer.

I give you simple maths without getting too complicated. Even despite PPP corrupt politicians doubling the international debt to $60 billion and domestic debt to over Rs1 trillion. Pakistan can come out of it quickly provided intelligent and honest people are in charge.

First of all, figures are there, now Army is not interfering so why the debt has doubled? Another bubble that Army benefit from foreign aid is burst by Army releasing the figure that they only got $1.4 billion in 10 years in military aid. Out of over $6 billion received as military aid, Military got less than $250 million.

Now let’s see broadly the debts and budget deficit figures.

Pakistan imports are $36 billion and exports are touching $22 billion. This leaves $14billion in foreign currency deficit per year. Our imports first of all include lavish items like bullet proof cars for the safety of our corrupt politicians who can not face the public they claim to represent. Then there are numerous useless trips by our President, Prime Minister and Ministers. These trips bring no benefits to Pakistan but provide these corrupt thieves chances for foreign shopping and holidays in super luxury.

Cutting this deficit to $8billion is not that difficult, getting rid of unnecessary imports. Actually, only those imports, except energy sources should be allowed which are necessary for capital expenditure and investment, and occasional food imports depending on domestic conditions.

Anyway, the remittance from overseas Pakistanis reaches $12billion this year. This would leave us with $3 to $4billion annual trade surplus.

Now look at the foreign aid, we reportedly receive $1.5billion from USA. But in reality after half of it taken back by the NGO’s and other administrative expenditure by the USA the best estimates say Pakistan is only benefited in the tune of $700 million.

Overseas Pakistanis remittance increased from $10billion to $12billion last year a net increase of $2billion, far out weighing the aid. So why do we need aid at all?

The fact is Pakistan is suffering from mismanagement of the corrupt Politicians. Why PPP has doubled the over all debt in just 3 years? If Army is responsible of the ill because of their defence budget then why they didn’t cause these increases in national debt even when they were in charge?

Do you seriously know how dangerous it is for Pakistan what PPP is doing?

Wake up man, you are very ill informed. Probably because of your family back ground or political affiliations it has been implanted in your head that Army is responsible for all the ill of Pakistan.

Yes, they shouldn’t get involved in the Politics, I agree. But look at the situation now; if Kiyani didn’t have the resolve to keep army out, we had no other option but army rule because of corruption and ineptness of PPP and other coalition parties. They are slowly destroying Pakistan. PPP did the same in its last 3 governments. Bhutto was instrumental of 1970’s debacle of Bangladesh. Yes, on the surface it looks like General Yaha was responsible, but that drunkard was no good. It was the planning of Bhutto in the back ground which caused Bangladesh. Bhutto was in power circle from the time of General Ayub. Then BB two stints as Prime Minister of Pakistan are famous for her and Zardari’s looting. And now the evidence is there what they are doing yet again.

In my considered opinion PPP is far more responsible for the problems of Pakistan than Army ever had been.

I will deal with your other comments gradually.
 
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Look brother, accept it Pakistan is one of the most unfortunate country, it has so many traitors, from ordinary people to some top brass.
Problem is we have become corrupt to the core. Our morals are in decline, we find any old excuse to blame Pakistan and belittle it.
Today, I have been banned from defence.pk forum, because an Indian complained that I have abused a country by writing, for the Audi A6 to be produced in India. That Audi is quite a fuel consuming vehicle. How ordinary Indians can afford to run such a car? And jokingly adding that have they invented an engine running on "Cow Piss". Initially I was just given a warning. But when I picked the comments by Indians from just one thread on interview of Gen Hamid Gul on RT and reported them to the admin for exactly the same thing Indians complained, the moderators banned me for a week.

Now I have to do a campaign against the forum and expose them. Problem is all these Pakistani forums deliberately allow Indians to participate for the traffic so they can make more money. As a matter of fact, it only takes from $10 a month to run a website. Not a big deal if you have spare time to run it. Moral of the story is from these mushrooms Pakistanis running websites and forums to Zardari, we all are using the name of Pakistan to make a quick buck.
If I wanted I easily could have gone down that line, but I didn't I only use my forums to publish my material, so no one can delete it or ban me for criticising the forum.

But whatever, I write what I want and not bind by any Tom, Dick and Harry. Those who had been reading my comments, know, I don't use bad language or inappropriate comments, but I am just honest and straight. Indians don't like it, I was giving them a tough time, therefore, they keep complaining. But look around Pakistani forums, they allow Indians to use every imaginable insults against Pakistan and Pakistanis without any action taken against them, but if you write something, you would be reprimanded.

Like I said, too many Pakistanis are with their agendas, no love for Pakistan and pride in it. Pakistan is one of the most unfortunate country in the world. Look in the west, nobody ever criticise their country, they criticise their governments, persons but not country.

bro i m with you is not just u there are many paksitanies have the negative behavior from them but still we are behis cause we want fight continue till the end to support our home land and our brave soldiers