Rejecting Reason in the name of Islam

[Cyber_Security]

Mughal1
@

You are an ignorant, untruthful, and deceitful person.
I know you do not believe in Islam, which is why you like to twist the meanings to suit your desired understanding to satisfy your flawed ego.
As I've mentioned, the verse I quoted was taken from the web and still the "Only" part is in brackets, indicating that the word "Only" is not mentioned in the original Arabic text.
Now you can deduce whatever meaning you want, but the fact remains the same.

Your screams are exposing you and your intellectual abilities. Can you imagine God writing something like God knows the gender of the child when he is born. Of course everyone knows the gender of the child after the child is born. God wouldn't say that. Defending that God meant not only him when he said, God knows what is inside the womb of a mother, is extremely dumb. But you are not the only one, see on YouTube how desperate people become and speak without logic when they have to defend Quran.
When you criticize Hadees due to logic, I find it funny, because when I am doing the same with Quran you are giving an extremely useless argument.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Mughal1
@

Your screams are exposing you and your intellectual abilities. Can you imagine God writing something like God knows the gender of the child when he is born. Of course everyone knows the gender of the child after the child is born. God wouldn't say that. Defending that God meant not only him when he said, God knows what is inside the womb of a mother, is extremely dumb. But you are not the only one, see on YouTube how desperate people become and speak without logic when they have to defend Quran.
When you criticize Hadees due to logic, I find it funny, because when I do the same with Quran you lose your cool.

Once again, you have confirmed that you are ignorant and can not comprehend the basic statement and yet want to yap the same bullshit over and over again.
Accept that you have no valid argument to back up your biased & flawed claim.
I suggest that you should avoid poking your nose where you do not have enough knowledge of the subject matter.
I know that you do not believe in God, but do not try to be smart aleck that you are not.

 

[Cyber_Security]

Once again, you have confirmed that you are ignorant and can not comprehend the basic statement and yet want to yap the same bullshit over and over again.
Accept that you have no valid argument to back up your biased & flawed claim.
I suggest that you should avoid poking your nose where you do not have enough knowledge of the subject matter.
I know that you do not believe in God, but do not try to be smart aleck that you are not.

I believe there is a higher power but your guess is correct about my faith in the Islamic God. He is a charlatan. A book which tells you that the semen is stored in the back bone, and God only new the gender of an unborn, promotes slavery, tells that stars are there to be thrown at the devil ( when they try to enter heaven), half testimony for women, half inheritance for women, is nothing but a fiction, fiction , fiction.
Mughal1
M_Shameer

 

[Wake up Pak]

I believe there is a higher power but your guess is correct about my faith in the Islamic God. He is a charlatan. A book which tells you that the semen is stored in the back bone, and God only new the gender of an unborn, promotes slavery, tells that stars are there to be thrown at the devil ( when they try to enter heaven), half testimony for women, half inheritance for women, is nothing but a fiction, fiction , fiction.
Mughal1
M_Shameer

Once again you are being ill-informed or ignorant of the facts. You twist the meanings of the Quranic words or mix fake ahadith with the Quranic literature but that will not convince anyone to accept your useless biasedness of the Quran.
There is no half testimony of the women. There is no slavery in the Quran.
Here is the answer to semen being stored in the backbone. But it won't make any difference to your biasedness of Islam.

 

[Wake up Pak]

I believe there is a higher power but your guess is correct about my faith in the Islamic God. He is a charlatan. A book which tells you that the semen is stored in the back bone, and God only new the gender of an unborn, promotes slavery, tells that stars are there to be thrown at the devil ( when they try to enter heaven), half testimony for women, half inheritance for women, is nothing but a fiction, fiction , fiction.
Mughal1
M_Shameer

 

[Cyber_Security]

Once again you are being ill-informed or ignorant of the facts. You twist the meanings of the Quranic words or mix fake ahadith with the Quranic literature but that will not convince anyone to accept your useless biasedness of the Quran.
There is no half testimony of the women. There is no slavery in the Quran.
Here is the answer to semen being stored in the backbone. But it won't make any difference to your biasedness of Islam.

Let's remove the confusion surrounding the Quranic verse about human creation. The verse explicitly says that man is created from a 'spurting fluid' emerging 'from between the backbone and ribs.'
Chapter 86, Verse 5 to 7 says, "Man should reflect on what he was created from. He is created from spurting fluid, emerging from between the backbone and ribs".

Here are the problems with defending this scientifically:

1. Anatomical Error: Sperm production and ejaculation occur in the pelvic region, specifically in the testes and seminal vesicles. These are nowhere near the backbone or ribs.
2. Misinterpretation of Embryology: While testes develop near the kidneys during embryogenesis, this happens in the abdomen, not the thoracic region between the backbone and ribs. Furthermore, this process has no connection to postnatal reproduction.
3. No Room for Metaphors in Science: Claiming the verse is metaphorical undermines any claim of scientific accuracy. A metaphor cannot be proof of foreknowledge.
4. Cherry-Picked Arguments: Attempts to link the verse to nerves or embryological processes stretch the interpretation beyond credibility. The verse speaks plainly about a 'spurting fluid,' clearly referencing semen.

If you are honest about seeking the truth, you’ll recognise that no amount of reinterpretation changes the fact: the Quranic description is not scientifically accurate. Ignoring these facts or swearing at others won’t make the issue disappear.

Now, let’s address the video you sent and highlight its errors:

1. The Video Misinterprets 'Nutfa': The video claims 'nutfa' refers broadly to 'fluid,' allowing a wider interpretation. However, the verse explicitly links this 'fluid' to the creation of man, clearly implying semen, not any other biological fluid.
2. False Correlation with Embryology: The video suggests that the 'fluid' originates from the backbone and ribs because testes develop near the kidneys during fetal development. This is misleading. Fetal development occurs in the abdomen, not between the backbone and ribs, and this has no bearing on where sperm originates in adult males.
3. Misuse of Nerve Argument: The claim that nerves connected to the testes originate near the backbone (spinal cord) fails to prove the Quran's point. The Quran speaks about a physical, spurting fluid, not nerve signals or embryological development.
4. Purposeful Vagueness: The video avoids directly explaining how 'spurting fluid' can originate from 'between the backbone and ribs.' It dances around the issue with unrelated scientific facts that don't address the verse directly.
5. Deliberate Ambiguity: The Quran uses clear physical terms: 'spurting fluid,' 'backbone,' and 'ribs.' The video attempts to obscure this clarity by introducing abstract embryological concepts and stretching meanings, which is intellectually dishonest.

Your video is a poor attempt to reconcile the verse with modern science. It's filled with misinterpretations and cherry-picked details and avoids directly answering the question: how does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs? The video doesn't answer it. If it does , then point out to me where.

Can you answer this question? Can you find in the video you sent me where this question is answered?

How does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs?


M_Shameer
Mughal1

 

[M_Shameer]

Let's remove the confusion surrounding the Quranic verse about human creation. The verse explicitly says that man is created from a 'spurting fluid' emerging 'from between the backbone and ribs.'
Chapter 86, Verse 5 to 7 says, "Man should reflect on what he was created from. He is created from spurting fluid, emerging from between the backbone and ribs".

Here are the problems with defending this scientifically:

1. Anatomical Error: Sperm production and ejaculation occur in the pelvic region, specifically in the testes and seminal vesicles. These are nowhere near the backbone or ribs.
2. Misinterpretation of Embryology: While testes develop near the kidneys during embryogenesis, this happens in the abdomen, not the thoracic region between the backbone and ribs. Furthermore, this process has no connection to postnatal reproduction.
3. No Room for Metaphors in Science: Claiming the verse is metaphorical undermines any claim of scientific accuracy. A metaphor cannot be proof of foreknowledge.
4. Cherry-Picked Arguments: Attempts to link the verse to nerves or embryological processes stretch the interpretation beyond credibility. The verse speaks plainly about a 'spurting fluid,' clearly referencing semen.

If you are honest about seeking the truth, you’ll recognise that no amount of reinterpretation changes the fact: the Quranic description is not scientifically accurate. Ignoring these facts or swearing at others won’t make the issue disappear.

Now, let’s address the video you sent and highlight its errors:

1. The Video Misinterprets 'Nutfa': The video claims 'nutfa' refers broadly to 'fluid,' allowing a wider interpretation. However, the verse explicitly links this 'fluid' to the creation of man, clearly implying semen, not any other biological fluid.
2. False Correlation with Embryology: The video suggests that the 'fluid' originates from the backbone and ribs because testes develop near the kidneys during fetal development. This is misleading. Fetal development occurs in the abdomen, not between the backbone and ribs, and this has no bearing on where sperm originates in adult males.
3. Misuse of Nerve Argument: The claim that nerves connected to the testes originate near the backbone (spinal cord) fails to prove the Quran's point. The Quran speaks about a physical, spurting fluid, not nerve signals or embryological development.
4. Purposeful Vagueness: The video avoids directly explaining how 'spurting fluid' can originate from 'between the backbone and ribs.' It dances around the issue with unrelated scientific facts that don't address the verse directly.
5. Deliberate Ambiguity: The Quran uses clear physical terms: 'spurting fluid,' 'backbone,' and 'ribs.' The video attempts to obscure this clarity by introducing abstract embryological concepts and stretching meanings, which is intellectually dishonest.

Your video is a poor attempt to reconcile the verse with modern science. It's filled with misinterpretations and cherry-picked details and avoids directly answering the question: how does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs? The video doesn't answer it. If it does , then point out to me where.

Can you answer this question? Can you find in the video you sent me where this question is answered?

How does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs?


M_Shameer
Mughal1

قرآن پڑھیں تو صاف پتا چلتا ہے کہ قران لکھنے والے کا علم بہت ہی محدود تھا۔ یہ کتاب کسی ایسی ہستی کی طرف سے تو ہوہی نہیں سکتی جس کو ہم کائنات کا کریئٹر کہہ سکیں۔ ادھر ادھر کی سنی سنائی باتیں قصوں کہانیوں کی صورت میں لکھ دی گئی ہیں جن پر مسلمان پچھلے 14 سو سال سے مغزماری کررہے ہیں اور آج تک دنیا کو ایک بھی نئی چیز اس میں سے نکال کر نہیں دے سکے۔۔

پیغمبرِ اسلام نے جب دعویٰ نبوت کیا تو یہود کے کچھ علماء ان کو ٹیسٹ کرنے کیلئے ان کے پاس گئے ۔ یہودی متھالوجی میں اصحابِ کہف کا ایک قصہ ہے۔ یہود کے علماء نے پیغمبر اسلام سے پوچھا کہ اگر آپ خدا کے سچے پیغمبر ہیں تو آپ کو اصحابِ کہف کی صحیح صحیح تعداد معلوم ہوگی، ذرا اپنے خدا سے ہمیں پوچھ کر وہ بتادیں اگر وہ صحیح ہوئی تو ہم آپ کو پیغمبر مان لیں گے۔ اس پر پیغمبر اسلام نے ان سے کچھ دن بعد بتانے کا وعدہ کردیا۔ اب پیغمبر اسلام سخت مشکل میں پڑ گئے کہ ان کو بھی معلوم نہیں تھا کہ یہود کی متھالوجی میں اصحابِ کہف کی صحیح تعداد کیا ہے۔ بڑے دن پریشان رہے، پھر ایک دن کچھ سوچا اور یہود کے علماء کو بلا کر یہ والی آیت ان کے سامنے پیش کردی کہ اللہ نے تمہارے سوال کے جواب میں یہ آیت نازل کی ہے۔۔

کچھ لوگ کہیں گے کہ وہ تین تھے اور چوتھا ان کا کتا تھا اور کچھ دوسرے کہہ دیں گے کہ پانچ تھے اور چھٹا اُن کا کتا تھا یہ سب بے تکی ہانکتے ہیں کچھ اور لوگ کہتے ہیں کہ سات تھے اور آٹھواں اُن کا کتا تھا کہو، میرا رب ہی بہتر جانتا ہے کہ وہ کتنے تھے کم ہی لوگ ان کی صحیح تعداد جانتے ہیں پس تم سرسری بات سے بڑھ کر ان کی تعداد کے معاملے میں لوگوں سے بحث نہ کرو، اور نہ ان کے متعلق کسی سے کچھ پوچھو۔ (سورۃ الکہف۔ آیت 22)۔​

 

[Mughal1]

@M_Shameer​

@Rumi-Admirer​

Dear friends, random discussions do not lead anywhere other than more and more confusion. The best way to go about things is step by step.

This is why I asked about definitions about proof, proving, reasoning and islam as to what they are. Unless we get to know these like basic things right purposefully properly first there is no point in discussing islam and the quranic text. It is because then anyone can go in any direction and make anything of anything.

I am not a secular nor a religious person so your random arguments against me cannot work. It is because I have made my point of view reasonably clear in my posts with definitions, proofs and reasonings. This is why I requested you people to go through my posts to see how I approach things and why I do that.

I explain things myself from my point of view in light of actual indisputable facts because I do not agree with mullahs, philosophers, physical and social scientists, economists, politicians and political scientists, capitalists, communists and socialists etc etc.

This is why I clearly explained what is purpose based proper islamic way of life, what is purpose based proper islamic rule of law and what is purpose based proper islamic governing system. Not only that but I also explained why they are absolutely necessary for humanity if they want to reach heights of excellence to have blissful, dignified and secure state of existence as a purpose based proper human community in this world which is kingdom of God.

If what I have explained is not good for humanity then one has to bring up alternative which is at least equally good for humanity or even better.

I will also ask you both to tell me why do you think the quranic text cannot be interpreted as it ought to be interpreted ie purposefully properly and why mullahs misinterpreted and misrepresented the actual quranic text?

Why instead of interpreting and explaining the quran purposefully properly you are trying to re-enforce wrong mullah interpretations or explanations of the quran? Also why are you so against islam? Have you any other way of life, rule of law and governing system which are better then be my guest and explain them away.

If you people have no idea about many things which I have clearly explained purposefully properly and you cannot dispute them even if you want to then what are trying to argue against? So if you want to refute me then go through my explanation of things and point out what is wrong with it in your opinion and why?

My explanation is for all to challenge it be they muslims or nonmuslims which includes yourselves.

If you people cannot even give me a simple definition of proof then expecting anything more than that will a wrong expectation of you on my part.

Quoting other people is not proof of anything but of your own ignorance because you need to realise the fact that they too need to prove what they say to qualify it. This is why to know actual definition of proof is of pivotal importance.

So I will wait till you come up with one which works for anything and everything.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.

 

[Cyber_Security]

@M_Shameer​

@Rumi-Admirer​

Dear friends, random discussions do not lead anywhere other than more and more confusion. The best way to go about things is step by step.

This is why I asked about definitions about proof, proving, reasoning and islam as to what they are. Unless we get to know these like basic things right purposefully properly first there is no point in discussing islam and the quranic text. It is because then anyone can go in any direction and make anything of anything.

I am not a secular nor a religious person so your random arguments against me cannot work. It is because I have made my point of view reasonably clear in my posts with definitions, proofs and reasonings. This is why I requested you people to go through my posts to see how I approach things and why I do that.

I explain things myself from my point of view in light of actual indisputable facts because I do not agree with mullahs, philosophers, physical and social scientists, economists, politicians and political scientists, capitalists, communists and socialists etc etc.

This is why I clearly explained what is purpose based proper islamic way of life, what is purpose based proper islamic rule of law and what is purpose based proper islamic governing system. Not only that but I also explained why they are absolutely necessary for humanity if they want to reach heights of excellence to have blissful, dignified and secure state of existence as a purpose based proper human community in this world which is kingdom of God.

If what I have explained is not good for humanity then one has to bring up alternative which is at least equally good for humanity or even better.

I will also ask you both to tell me why do you think the quranic text cannot be interpreted as it ought to be interpreted ie purposefully properly and why mullahs misinterpreted and misrepresented the actual quranic text?

Why instead of interpreting and explaining the quran purposefully properly you are trying to re-enforce wrong mullah interpretations or explanations of the quran? Also why are you so against islam? Have you any other way of life, rule of law and governing system which are better then be my guest and explain them away.

If you people have no idea about many things which I have clearly explained purposefully properly and you cannot dispute them even if you want to then what are trying to argue against? So if you want to refute me then go through my explanation of things and point out what is wrong with it in your opinion and why?

My explanation is for all to challenge it be they muslims or nonmuslims which includes yourselves.

If you people cannot even give me a simple definition of proof then expecting anything more than that will a wrong expectation of you on my part.

Quoting other people is not proof of anything but of your own ignorance because you need to realise the fact that they too need to prove what they say to qualify it. This is why to know actual definition of proof is of pivotal importance.

So I will wait till you come up with one which works for anything and everything.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.

You just ignored my definition of "proof". You only read what looks good from your point of view. Definitions, that's what you need. That's what I gave you, but if you respond?

 

[Cyber_Security]

قرآن پڑھیں تو صاف پتا چلتا ہے کہ قران لکھنے والے کا علم بہت ہی محدود تھا۔ یہ کتاب کسی ایسی ہستی کی طرف سے تو ہوہی نہیں سکتی جس کو ہم کائنات کا کریئٹر کہہ سکیں۔ ادھر ادھر کی سنی سنائی باتیں قصوں کہانیوں کی صورت میں لکھ دی گئی ہیں جن پر مسلمان پچھلے 14 سو سال سے مغزماری کررہے ہیں اور آج تک دنیا کو ایک بھی نئی چیز اس میں سے نکال کر نہیں دے سکے۔۔

پیغمبرِ اسلام نے جب دعویٰ نبوت کیا تو یہود کے کچھ علماء ان کو ٹیسٹ کرنے کیلئے ان کے پاس گئے ۔ یہودی متھالوجی میں اصحابِ کہف کا ایک قصہ ہے۔ یہود کے علماء نے پیغمبر اسلام سے پوچھا کہ اگر آپ خدا کے سچے پیغمبر ہیں تو آپ کو اصحابِ کہف کی صحیح صحیح تعداد معلوم ہوگی، ذرا اپنے خدا سے ہمیں پوچھ کر وہ بتادیں اگر وہ صحیح ہوئی تو ہم آپ کو پیغمبر مان لیں گے۔ اس پر پیغمبر اسلام نے ان سے کچھ دن بعد بتانے کا وعدہ کردیا۔ اب پیغمبر اسلام سخت مشکل میں پڑ گئے کہ ان کو بھی معلوم نہیں تھا کہ یہود کی متھالوجی میں اصحابِ کہف کی صحیح تعداد کیا ہے۔ بڑے دن پریشان رہے، پھر ایک دن کچھ سوچا اور یہود کے علماء کو بلا کر یہ والی آیت ان کے سامنے پیش کردی کہ اللہ نے تمہارے سوال کے جواب میں یہ آیت نازل کی ہے۔۔

کچھ لوگ کہیں گے کہ وہ تین تھے اور چوتھا ان کا کتا تھا اور کچھ دوسرے کہہ دیں گے کہ پانچ تھے اور چھٹا اُن کا کتا تھا یہ سب بے تکی ہانکتے ہیں کچھ اور لوگ کہتے ہیں کہ سات تھے اور آٹھواں اُن کا کتا تھا کہو، میرا رب ہی بہتر جانتا ہے کہ وہ کتنے تھے کم ہی لوگ ان کی صحیح تعداد جانتے ہیں پس تم سرسری بات سے بڑھ کر ان کی تعداد کے معاملے میں لوگوں سے بحث نہ کرو، اور نہ ان کے متعلق کسی سے کچھ پوچھو۔ (سورۃ الکہف۔ آیت 22)۔​

How funny Jews were asking Prophet Muhammad if his religion could show accuracy according to their religion. It is like one fraud is asking another fraud to prove authenticity. It is like some fraud claims in Pakistan that he has made a car that runs through the water, and Charlatan Agha Waqar wants proof that the new fake scientist did not steal his ideas. Have you read the Torah? A thunderstorm means God is angry. If a child misbehaves, parents have the right to kill him. There is no other book with bigger nonsense than the first testament. Anyway, I like the logic of the Quran author; deceiving the liar is not a bad idea for a liar :-) At the moment, Wake Up Pakistan is going through libraries to libraries of YouTube to defend that semen is stored in the back of a male body :-) He thinks the Quran Ayat that women have half testimony is misinterpreted, women 's half inheritance is also misinterpreted etc., etc. There is a video on YouTube by an ex-dean of Science from Karachi University who proves that the earth is stationary (because the Quran claims it is static). Only a Pakistani Muslim even if he was a dean can believe that the earth is static. We have all kinds of videos on YouTube. By the way, did you see my video on Hoor of Heaven? Can you imagine someone like me with so much liberal opinion would have a dream of heaven? So many Mullahs fantasise about hours all their lives but never have a chance to dream about one. Here I visited heaven and met a gorgeous hoor in a dream. :-) I thought I should make a video on my dream so I did. It has got 200 hits in two days.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Let's remove the confusion surrounding the Quranic verse about human creation. The verse explicitly says that man is created from a 'spurting fluid' emerging 'from between the backbone and ribs.'
Chapter 86, Verse 5 to 7 says, "Man should reflect on what he was created from. He is created from spurting fluid, emerging from between the backbone and ribs".

Here are the problems with defending this scientifically:

1. Anatomical Error: Sperm production and ejaculation occur in the pelvic region, specifically in the testes and seminal vesicles. These are nowhere near the backbone or ribs.
2. Misinterpretation of Embryology: While testes develop near the kidneys during embryogenesis, this happens in the abdomen, not the thoracic region between the backbone and ribs. Furthermore, this process has no connection to postnatal reproduction.
3. No Room for Metaphors in Science: Claiming the verse is metaphorical undermines any claim of scientific accuracy. A metaphor cannot be proof of foreknowledge.
4. Cherry-Picked Arguments: Attempts to link the verse to nerves or embryological processes stretch the interpretation beyond credibility. The verse speaks plainly about a 'spurting fluid,' clearly referencing semen.

If you are honest about seeking the truth, you’ll recognise that no amount of reinterpretation changes the fact: the Quranic description is not scientifically accurate. Ignoring these facts or swearing at others won’t make the issue disappear.

Now, let’s address the video you sent and highlight its errors:

1. The Video Misinterprets 'Nutfa': The video claims 'nutfa' refers broadly to 'fluid,' allowing a wider interpretation. However, the verse explicitly links this 'fluid' to the creation of man, clearly implying semen, not any other biological fluid.
2. False Correlation with Embryology: The video suggests that the 'fluid' originates from the backbone and ribs because testes develop near the kidneys during fetal development. This is misleading. Fetal development occurs in the abdomen, not between the backbone and ribs, and this has no bearing on where sperm originates in adult males.
3. Misuse of Nerve Argument: The claim that nerves connected to the testes originate near the backbone (spinal cord) fails to prove the Quran's point. The Quran speaks about a physical, spurting fluid, not nerve signals or embryological development.
4. Purposeful Vagueness: The video avoids directly explaining how 'spurting fluid' can originate from 'between the backbone and ribs.' It dances around the issue with unrelated scientific facts that don't address the verse directly.
5. Deliberate Ambiguity: The Quran uses clear physical terms: 'spurting fluid,' 'backbone,' and 'ribs.' The video attempts to obscure this clarity by introducing abstract embryological concepts and stretching meanings, which is intellectually dishonest.

Your video is a poor attempt to reconcile the verse with modern science. It's filled with misinterpretations and cherry-picked details and avoids directly answering the question: how does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs? The video doesn't answer it. If it does , then point out to me where.

Can you answer this question? Can you find in the video you sent me where this question is answered?

How does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs?


M_Shameer
Mughal1

I knew that an anti-Islam person like you would not comprehend the truth as his brain is pre-conceived to biasedness and hatred of Islam.
You believe what suits you, but it does not make a difference in people's lives as the truth is evident.

 

[Wake up Pak]

@M_Shameer​

@Rumi-Admirer​

Dear friends, random discussions do not lead anywhere other than more and more confusion. The best way to go about things is step by step.

This is why I asked about definitions about proof, proving, reasoning and islam as to what they are. Unless we get to know these like basic things right purposefully properly first there is no point in discussing islam and the quranic text. It is because then anyone can go in any direction and make anything of anything.

I am not a secular nor a religious person so your random arguments against me cannot work. It is because I have made my point of view reasonably clear in my posts with definitions, proofs and reasonings. This is why I requested you people to go through my posts to see how I approach things and why I do that.

I explain things myself from my point of view in light of actual indisputable facts because I do not agree with mullahs, philosophers, physical and social scientists, economists, politicians and political scientists, capitalists, communists and socialists etc etc.

This is why I clearly explained what is purpose based proper islamic way of life, what is purpose based proper islamic rule of law and what is purpose based proper islamic governing system. Not only that but I also explained why they are absolutely necessary for humanity if they want to reach heights of excellence to have blissful, dignified and secure state of existence as a purpose based proper human community in this world which is kingdom of God.

If what I have explained is not good for humanity then one has to bring up alternative which is at least equally good for humanity or even better.

I will also ask you both to tell me why do you think the quranic text cannot be interpreted as it ought to be interpreted ie purposefully properly and why mullahs misinterpreted and misrepresented the actual quranic text?

Why instead of interpreting and explaining the quran purposefully properly you are trying to re-enforce wrong mullah interpretations or explanations of the quran? Also why are you so against islam? Have you any other way of life, rule of law and governing system which are better then be my guest and explain them away.

If you people have no idea about many things which I have clearly explained purposefully properly and you cannot dispute them even if you want to then what are trying to argue against? So if you want to refute me then go through my explanation of things and point out what is wrong with it in your opinion and why?

My explanation is for all to challenge it be they muslims or nonmuslims which includes yourselves.

If you people cannot even give me a simple definition of proof then expecting anything more than that will a wrong expectation of you on my part.

Quoting other people is not proof of anything but of your own ignorance because you need to realise the fact that they too need to prove what they say to qualify it. This is why to know actual definition of proof is of pivotal importance.

So I will wait till you come up with one which works for anything and everything.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.

I won't waste much time on people like Rumi-Admirer type ignorant & anti-Islam people as they are adamant about quoting misconstrued Quranic verses to suit thier agenda. I have already demolished his usual nonsense and caught him lying and deceiving by misquoting the Quranic verses.

 

[Cyber_Security]

I won't waste much time on people like Rumi-Admirer type ignorant & anti-Islam people as they are adamant about quoting misconstrued Quranic verses to suit thier agenda. I have already demolished his usual nonsense and caught him lying and deceiving by misquoting the Quranic verses.

Stop running away.

Can you find in the video you sent me where this question is answered?

How does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs?
Your answer is so similar to every other Muslim who are brainwashed in their childhood.
when they can't defend stupidity in Quran they start shouting and screaming at the other person because they don't have the answer. I knew fully you will not write about the ayat anymore because the video you sent me ignores this question as well. Enjoy the day!.

M_Shameer

 

[Wake up Pak]

Stop running away.

Can you find in the video you sent me where this question is answered?

How does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs?
Your answer is so similar to every other Muslim who are brainwashed in their childhood.
when they can't defend stupidity in Quran they start shouting and screaming at the other person because they don't have the answer. I knew fully you will not write about the ayat anymore because the video you sent me ignores this question as well. Enjoy the day!.

M_Shameer

Running away? Are you in your senses? I've provided the video which I knew you wouldn't agree to as your brain is stuck on bashing the religion without any evidence.
No matter what you say the fact of the matter is that you atheists are bent upon denying the truth because it hurts your ego and IQ which seems to be below freezing point.

 

[Cyber_Security]

Running away? Are you in your senses? I've provided the video which I knew you wouldn't agree to as your brain is stuck on bashing the religion without any evidence.
No matter what you say the fact of the matter is that you atheists are bent upon denying the truth because it hurts your ego and IQ which seems to be below freezing point.

Did you say you atheists? No one in the world will call a person Muslim who does not believe on praying Namaz. You are also a non Muslim. Go and ask any Muslim.

Yes you are running away.
If not then tell me,
where in your video this question is answered.

How does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs?

I am waiting to know the exact location in the video.

M_Shameer

 

[Wake up Pak]

Did you say you atheists? No one in the world will call a person Muslim who does not believe on praying Namaz. You are also a non Muslim. Go and ask any Muslim.

Yes you are running away.
If not then tell me,
where in your video this question is answered.

How does a 'spurting fluid' come from between the backbone and ribs?

I am waiting to know the exact location in the video.

M_Shameer

I suggest you keep watching the video, one day it will get through your thick skull.
It's okay if people don't call me a Muslim because I do not accept ahadith, Namaz, or circumambulating a four-walled building, etc. but I know where I stand.

 

[Cyber_Security]

I suggest you keep watching the video, one day it will get through your thick skull.
It's okay if people don't call me a Muslim because I do not accept ahadith, Namaz, or circumambulating a four-walled building, etc. but I know where I stand.

My aim was never to put you down.
But you seem to divert from the topic again and again. You seem to question the authenticity of Hadees , that is good. But when cracks appear in Quran you ignore them.
You use logic but only to prove Ahadees wrong. Your logic disappears when it comes to Quran. I just wanted you to know to research Quran from a neutral point of you, A true God would not make so many errors in his/her book.

 

[Mughal1]

You just ignored my definition of "proof". You only read what looks good from your point of view. Definitions, that's what you need. That's what I gave you, but if you respond?

dear rumi admirer sb, I have responded to your definition of proof. It is not correct in my view. I have already defined proof in my posts which works for each and everything which need proof and proving.

Here is dictionary definition of proof, do you think it is correct? In my view it is not correct.

Dictionary Definition (Oxford)
Proof /pruːf/ noun
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
"you will be asked to give proof of your identity"
Similar:evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification, validation, attestation, demonstration, substantiation, witness, testament, documentation, facts, data, testimony.

None of these tell us what the actual definition of proof is. You can try and find it in encyclopedias if you want. Don't tell me these people are not so called highly qualified from prestigious educational institutions.

Look at it this way. People including me are attributing the quran to God. Does that qualify it as word of God? No, not at all. The quran has to prove itself that it is word of God by being a proof. You know what these so called highly qualified people say about the quran proving itself. The quran cannot prove itself word of God. The evidence for the quran to be proven as word of God has to come from outside the quran.

You too are one of those people who do not realise that the quran can prove itself by itself because it contains what is called proof. Now if people do not know what the proof is then how can they see how the quran itself proves itself as word of God?

This is the limit of so called scholars that are produced by world's most privileged educational institutions.

This is why I push each and every person to define proof before you ask for one. If I provided the proof and you did not know what the proof is supposed to be then you will not know I have provided you with the proof. This is why defining and knowing the proof is absolutely necessary in my view.

For example, God has provided mankind with the quran as a proof but because mankind have not prepared themselves purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accepting and acting upon his purpose based proper guidance for mankind purposefully properly as a proof so they are still asking for proof after having the proof with them.

This is why these so called scholars who have come from highly and most privileged educational institutions do not impress me. I see no difference between leading political secular and religious people such as mullaans and philosophers or scientists because all are crazy and if they were a sensible people the world in which I live will not be in the mess that it is in and it is because of all these people who have been playing a very negative role in it by being in leading positions.

Here are facts as I see them in light of which I expect sensible people to make their life directing decisions. If any people do not have these facts in forefront of their minds and they do not take them into account when they make decisions about organising and regulating humanity purposefully properly then I take them for fools and not sensible people no matter how many phds they have under their belts. It is because proof of the pudding is in the eating.

1)You tell me, did you come into this world all by yourself? I know you did not and you know you did not. Others brought you into this world and without your consent or agreement. Can anyone including you deny this fact? No, you cannot nor can anyone else. This is what I call indisputable fact.

2)After coming into this world did you look after yourself? No I know you did not and you know you did not rather other people looked after you. Can anyone deny this indisputable fact including you? No, not at all.

3)When people if they get old, again, they need other people to look after after them. Again none can deny this indisputable fact including you.

4)Anyone could develop serious health problems during one's life so one becomes dependent upon others for one's looking after. Again this is an indisputable fact which cannot be denied by any secular or religious person be one a philosopher, politician, economist or mullaan etc etc.

5)Anyone can have an accident at any time during one's life which could cripple one so one again needs others to look after him, which is again an indisputable fact which none can deny.

6)None of us human beings can be independent of each other at all. We depend upon each other from our birth till our death. Not only for our breathings fresh air but also food and drink as well as for our shelter and all other kinds of our needs such as education, training and skills etc etc. Can anyone dare disagree with me including people like you?

What do these facts tell us about which way of life, which rule of law and which governing system we should adopt or live by? The ones which unite us and keep us united for our peaceful and joyable existence with love and respect for each other which is impossible without our making constant progress and becoming and remaining prosperous with help and full support of each other through our complementing each other purposefully properly for this purpose as a purpose based proper human community in this world instead of competing against each other like rivals and enemies and getting into fights with each other and going to wars with each other for securing our own individual petty personal gains from each other at each other expense and thereby ending up harmed and destroyed by hands of each other.

Can you see why so called leaders and scholars of this and that do not impress me? Because they have turned our human world into a living hell for us. This is why I am better off ignorant the way I am than being learned the way I see others through their thinking, planning and doing things. It is because what they have done the results or outcomes of their those thoughts, plans and actions for the human world have brought us all the kind of life we have, which is not a pleasant sight.

You have also put forth a couple of quranic verses wherein the quran talks about birth of a human ie 86/5-7. They are misinterpreted by mullaans. It talks about two separate things a) about semen which gushes forth and b) as a result a baby comes out of his mother's womb. It is talking about the position of baby in his mother's womb.

regards and all the best.

 

[Cyber_Security]

dear rumi admirer sb, I have responded to your definition of proof. It is not correct in my view. I have already defined proof in my posts which works for each and everything which need proof and proving.

Here is dictionary definition of proof, do you think it is correct? In my view it is not correct.

Dictionary Definition (Oxford)
Proof /pruːf/ noun
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
"you will be asked to give proof of your identity"
Similar:evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification, validation, attestation, demonstration, substantiation, witness, testament, documentation, facts, data, testimony.

None of these tell us what the actual definition of proof is. You can try and find it in encyclopedias if you want. Don't tell me these people are not so called highly qualified from prestigious educational institutions.

Look at it this way. People including me are attributing the quran to God. Does that qualify it as word of God? No, not at all. The quran has to prove itself that it is word of God by being a proof. You know what these so called highly qualified people say about the quran proving itself. The quran cannot prove itself word of God. The evidence for the quran to be proven as word of God has to come from outside the quran.

You too are one of those people who do not realise that the quran can prove itself by itself because it contains what is called proof. Now if people do not know what the proof is then how can they see how the quran itself proves itself as word of God?

This is the limit of so called scholars that are produced by world's most privileged educational institutions.

This is why I push each and every person to define proof before you ask for one. If I provided the proof and you did not know what the proof is supposed to be then you will not know I have provided you with the proof. This is why defining and knowing the proof is absolutely necessary in my view.

For example, God has provided mankind with the quran as a proof but because mankind have not prepared themselves purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accepting and acting upon his purpose based proper guidance for mankind purposefully properly as a proof so they are still asking for proof after having the proof with them.

This is why these so called scholars who have come from highly and most privileged educational institutions do not impress me. I see no difference between leading political secular and religious people such as mullaans and philosophers or scientists because all are crazy and if they were a sensible people the world in which I live will not be in the mess that it is in and it is because of all these people who have been playing a very negative role in it by being in leading positions.

Here are facts as I see them in light of which I expect sensible people to make their life directing decisions. If any people do not have these facts in forefront of their minds and they do not take them into account when they make decisions about organising and regulating humanity purposefully properly then I take them for fools and not sensible people no matter how many phds they have under their belts. It is because proof of the pudding is in the eating.

1)You tell me, did you come into this world all by yourself? I know you did not and you know you did not. Others brought you into this world and without your consent or agreement. Can anyone including you deny this fact? No, you cannot nor can anyone else. This is what I call indisputable fact.

2)After coming into this world did you look after yourself? No I know you did not and you know you did not rather other people looked after you. Can anyone deny this indisputable fact including you? No, not at all.

3)When people if they get old, again, they need other people to look after after them. Again none can deny this indisputable fact including you.

4)Anyone could develop serious health problems during one's life so one becomes dependent upon others for one's looking after. Again this is an indisputable fact which cannot be denied by any secular or religious person be one a philosopher, politician, economist or mullaan etc etc.

5)Anyone can have an accident at any time during one's life which could cripple one so one again needs others to look after him, which is again an indisputable fact which none can deny.

6)None of us human beings can be independent of each other at all. We depend upon each other from our birth till our death. Not only for our breathings fresh air but also food and drink as well as for our shelter and all other kinds of our needs such as education, training and skills etc etc. Can anyone dare disagree with me including people like you?

What do these facts tell us about which way of life, which rule of law and which governing system we should adopt or live by? The ones which unite us and keep us united for our peaceful and joyable existence with love and respect for each other which is impossible without our making constant progress and becoming and remaining prosperous with help and full support of each other through our complementing each other purposefully properly for this purpose as a purpose based proper human community in this world instead of competing against each other like rivals and enemies and getting into fights with each other and going to wars with each other for securing our own individual petty personal gains from each other at each other expense and thereby ending up harmed and destroyed by hands of each other.

Can you see why so called leaders and scholars of this and that do not impress me? Because they have turned our human world into a living hell for us. This is why I am better off ignorant the way I am than being learned the way I see others through their thinking, planning and doing things. It is because what they have done the results or outcomes of their those thoughts, plans and actions for the human world have brought us all the kind of life we have, which is not a pleasant sight.

You have also put forth a couple of quranic verses wherein the quran talks about birth of a human ie 86/5-7. They are misinterpreted by mullaans. It talks about two separate things a) about semen which gushes forth and b) as a result a baby comes out of his mother's womb. It is talking about the position of baby in his mother's womb.

regards and all the best.

You have written,

"> >I have responded to your definition of proof. It is not correct in my view.
then you wrote
Dictionary Definition (Oxford)
Proof /pruːf/ noun
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement."

This is what I had written,

Proof of something is evidence of a claim.

Now compare it your definition, yours us in red mine is in blue
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
Proof of something is evidence of a claim.

You loosely wrote evidence of a statement.
I wrote Evidence of a claim

and I am wrong?


then I gave an example


A person X was charged with rape of a woman B. The DNA proved the sexual intercourse. The CCTV proved aggressive behavior and breaking into the girls house. This is proof.
Your post tells me something about you: that, in your opinion, everything besides your beliefs is wrong.

By the way, you put the wrong conclusion through your argument.
It is again similar to

1) Is it not proof that the picture of the Mona Lisa can be made on its own? Picture can not be made on their own, you will believe the fact that Mona Lisa was made by a human.
2) Now let's look at the abilities of my boss, who is a painter. I mean, who else could design a sign a divine art?

There you go I prove that the Mona Lisa was designed by my Boss.

By the way, you found the beauty of the Quran. I put the same question to you what Wake up Pakistan ran from and could not defend.


In Surah Tariq Ayat 7, Allah said, "The semen emerges from backbone and ribs."



(86:5) So let man consider of what he was created. (86:6) He was created of a gushing fluid, (86:7) emanating from between the loins and the ribs.


Please explain the ayat and whether it is the book of the creator. If this is scientifically wrong, isn't it proof that it is a man-made book? There you go. I just defined the word Proof for you with an example.

I am waiting for the explanation of this Ayat. Please don't beat around the bush; just explain this ayat.

I will point out lots of scientific errors in the Quran. I want you to defend them if you are a Muslim.

M_Shameer

 

[M_Shameer]

At the moment, Wake Up Pakistan is going through libraries to libraries of YouTube to defend that semen is stored in the back of a male body :-) He thinks the Quran Ayat that women have half testimony is misinterpreted, women 's half inheritance is also misinterpreted etc., etc. There is a video on YouTube by an ex-dean of Science from Karachi University who proves that the earth is stationary (because the Quran claims it is static). Only a Pakistani Muslim even if he was a dean can believe that the earth is static. We have all kinds of videos on YouTube. By the way, did you see my video on Hoor of Heaven? Can you imagine someone like me with so much liberal opinion would have a dream of heaven? So many Mullahs fantasise about hours all their lives but never have a chance to dream about one. Here I visited heaven and met a gorgeous hoor in a dream. :-) I thought I should make a video on my dream so I did. It has got 200 hits in two days.

کسی بھی پیدائشی مسلمان کیلئے مذہب کو چھوڑنا بہت ہی مشکل ہے۔ اس کی وجہ ایک تو بچپن کی انڈاکٹرینیشن ہے دوسرا اسلام میں یہ چیز ایمبیڈڈ ہے کہ باقی سارے مذاہب غلط ہیں اور دنیا کا واحد سچا اور آخری مذہب اسلام ہی ہے۔ بچپن میں جن اذہان میں یہ بات ڈال دی جاتی ہے، بڑے ہوکر ان کیلئے اس جھوٹ سے نکل پانا بہت ہی مشکل ہوتا ہے، مسلم معاشروں میں رہتے ہوئے ویسے بھی ان کا ایکسپوژر اور علم بہت محدود ہوتا ہے۔ جو مسلمان ترقی یافتہ معاشروں میں جا کر رہنے لگتے ہیں، وقت کے ساتھ ساتھ ان کی سوچ تھوڑی وسیع ہوتی جاتی ہے اور پھر وہ اسلام کے زیادہ جاہلانہ حصے سے کنی کترانے لگتے ہیں۔

ویک اپ پاکستان صاحب ان مسلمانوں میں سے ہیں جو اسلام کے آدھے حصے یعنی احادیث سے تو جان چھڑا چکے ہیں، مگر ابھی آدھے کے ساتھ جھوجھ رہے ہیں۔ یہ ابھی ٹرانزیشن فیز میں ہیں۔ ان کی کوشش ہے کہ قرآن کے ترجمے کو کسی طرح قابلِ قبول بناکر مذہب اسلام کے ساتھ نتھی رہا جائے۔۔ دیکھتے ہیں کب تک یہ اس کوشش کو جاری رکھتے ہیں۔ یا پھر ہمت کرکے سچ کو قبول کرلیتے ہیں۔​

By the way, did you see my video on Hoor of Heaven? Can you imagine someone like me with so much liberal opinion would have a dream of heaven? So many Mullahs fantasise about hours all their lives but never have a chance to dream about one. Here I visited heaven and met a gorgeous hoor in a dream. :-) I thought I should make a video on my dream so I did. It has got 200 hits in two days.

I didn't see, Kindly share the link.