Rejecting Reason in the name of Islam

[M_Shameer]

You have written,

"> >I have responded to your definition of proof. It is not correct in my view.
then you wrote
Dictionary Definition (Oxford)
Proof /pruːf/ noun
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement."

This is what I had written,

Proof of something is evidence of a claim.

Now compare it your definition, yours us in red mine is in blue
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
Proof of something is evidence of a claim.

You loosely wrote evidence of a statement.
I wrote Evidence of a claim

and I am wrong?


then I gave an example


A person X was charged with rape of a woman B. The DNA proved the sexual intercourse. The CCTV proved aggressive behavior and breaking into the girls house. This is proof.
Your post tells me something about you: that, in your opinion, everything besides your beliefs is wrong.

By the way, you put the wrong conclusion through your argument.
It is again similar to

1) Is it not proof that the picture of the Mona Lisa can be made on its own? Picture can not be made on their own, you will believe the fact that Mona Lisa was made by a human.
2) Now let's look at the abilities of my boss, who is a painter. I mean, who else could design a sign a divine art?

There you go I prove that the Mona Lisa was designed by my Boss.

By the way, you found the beauty of the Quran. I put the same question to you what Wake up Pakistan ran from and could not defend.


In Surah Tariq Ayat 7, Allah said, "The semen emerges from backbone and ribs."



(86:5) So let man consider of what he was created. (86:6) He was created of a gushing fluid, (86:7) emanating from between the loins and the ribs.


Please explain the ayat and whether it is the book of the creator. If this is scientifically wrong, isn't it proof that it is a man-made book? There you go. I just defined the word Proof for you with an example.

I am waiting for the explanation of this Ayat. Please don't beat around the bush; just explain this ayat.

I will point out lots of scientific errors in the Quran. I want you to defend them if you are a Muslim.

M_Shameer

مغل صاحب کے ساتھ مغزماری کا کوئی فائدہ نہیں۔ یہ سامنے والے کے آرگیومنٹس کو نہیں لیتے اور اپنی رٹی رٹائی تقریر کر مارتے ہیں۔۔ یہ بھی کنفیوژڈ مسلمانوں میں سے ایک ہیں۔۔ ​

 

[Mughal1]

You have written,

"> >I have responded to your definition of proof. It is not correct in my view.
then you wrote
Dictionary Definition (Oxford)
Proof /pruːf/ noun
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement."

This is what I had written,

Proof of something is evidence of a claim.

Now compare it your definition, yours us in red mine is in blue
evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
Proof of something is evidence of a claim.

You loosely wrote evidence of a statement.
I wrote Evidence of a claim

and I am wrong?


then I gave an example


A person X was charged with rape of a woman B. The DNA proved the sexual intercourse. The CCTV proved aggressive behavior and breaking into the girls house. This is proof.
Your post tells me something about you: that, in your opinion, everything besides your beliefs is wrong.

By the way, you put the wrong conclusion through your argument.
It is again similar to

1) Is it not proof that the picture of the Mona Lisa can be made on its own? Picture can not be made on their own, you will believe the fact that Mona Lisa was made by a human.
2) Now let's look at the abilities of my boss, who is a painter. I mean, who else could design a sign a divine art?

There you go I prove that the Mona Lisa was designed by my Boss.

By the way, you found the beauty of the Quran. I put the same question to you what Wake up Pakistan ran from and could not defend.


In Surah Tariq Ayat 7, Allah said, "The semen emerges from backbone and ribs."



(86:5) So let man consider of what he was created. (86:6) He was created of a gushing fluid, (86:7) emanating from between the loins and the ribs.


Please explain the ayat and whether it is the book of the creator. If this is scientifically wrong, isn't it proof that it is a man-made book? There you go. I just defined the word Proof for you with an example.

I am waiting for the explanation of this Ayat. Please don't beat around the bush; just explain this ayat.

I will point out lots of scientific errors in the Quran. I want you to defend them if you are a Muslim.

M_Shameer

Dear rumi admirer sb, I did not define what proof is. I simply told you what oxford dictionary states as to what proof is and I said I do not agree with that. Kindly read my post again if you are in doubt.

I do not agree with definition of proof by you or by oxford dictionary. You will see similar definitions of proof even in encyclopedias. They are not defining proof as they are supposed to.

Let me explain to you my question for helping you with your understanding problem.

Let us suppose, we are both walking along a road. We come across a brick wall. You tell me, there is wall in front of us but I say to you, I do not see any wall there. Now how are you going to prove to me there is really a wall there in front of us?

I will wait till you respond before I talk about other things.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.

 

[Mughal1]

مغل صاحب کے ساتھ مغزماری کا کوئی فائدہ نہیں۔ یہ سامنے والے کے آرگیومنٹس کو نہیں لیتے اور اپنی رٹی رٹائی تقریر کر مارتے ہیں۔۔ یہ بھی کنفیوژڈ مسلمانوں میں سے ایک ہیں۔۔ ​

dear m shameer sb, can you prove to me that you do have maghz?

regards and all the best.

 

[Cyber_Security]

Dear rumi admirer sb, I did not define what proof is. I simply told you what oxford dictionary states as to what proof is and I said I do not agree with that. Kindly read my post again if you are in doubt.

I do not agree with definition of proof by you or by oxford dictionary. You will see similar definitions of proof even in encyclopedias. They are not defining proof as they are supposed to.

Let me explain to you my question for helping you with your understanding problem.

Let us suppose, we are both walking along a road. We come across a brick wall. You tell me, there is wall in front of us but I say to you, I do not see any wall there. Now how are you going to prove to me there is really a wall there in front of us?

I will wait till you respond before I talk about other things.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.

You ignored my question. I asked you not to beat around the bush. If you are a Muslim and believe the Quran as Allah's book, then answer my question

Qur'an 86:7 says that sperm originates from the backbones and the ribs,


Not interested in any other topic. Stay on the topic. Are you a Muslim? Then you should not run away from defending the ayat. If you don't answer then it means you can't answer and born in a Muslims religion so you will believe on any fake story.

Explain me Quran 86:7. . .

 

[Mughal1]

You ignored my question. I asked you not to beat around the bush. If you are a Muslim and believe the Quran as Allah's book, then answer my question

Qur'an 86:7 says that sperm originates from the backbones and the ribs,


Not interested in any other topic. Stay on the topic. Are you a Muslim? Then you should not run away from defending the ayat. If you don't answer then it means you can't answer and born in a Muslims religion so you will believe on any fake story.

Explain me Quran 86:7. . .

Dear rumi admirer sb, unless you define proof for me there is no point in discussing things because how are you or me going to prove anything to each other? Even if you read my very first post on this thread I am emphasising vital importance of proof and proving.

So you should be able to see how vitally important definition of proof is for discussing things otherwise we can beat around the bush as much as we like but the end result will be zero. It will all be a waste of time.

It is like you say there is a sun in the sky and I say no there isn't one.

regards and all the best.

 

[Cyber_Security]

کسی بھی پیدائشی مسلمان کیلئے مذہب کو چھوڑنا بہت ہی مشکل ہے۔ اس کی وجہ ایک تو بچپن کی انڈاکٹرینیشن ہے دوسرا اسلام میں یہ چیز ایمبیڈڈ ہے کہ باقی سارے مذاہب غلط ہیں اور دنیا کا واحد سچا اور آخری مذہب اسلام ہی ہے۔ بچپن میں جن اذہان میں یہ بات ڈال دی جاتی ہے، بڑے ہوکر ان کیلئے اس جھوٹ سے نکل پانا بہت ہی مشکل ہوتا ہے، مسلم معاشروں میں رہتے ہوئے ویسے بھی ان کا ایکسپوژر اور علم بہت محدود ہوتا ہے۔ جو مسلمان ترقی یافتہ معاشروں میں جا کر رہنے لگتے ہیں، وقت کے ساتھ ساتھ ان کی سوچ تھوڑی وسیع ہوتی جاتی ہے اور پھر وہ اسلام کے زیادہ جاہلانہ حصے سے کنی کترانے لگتے ہیں۔

ویک اپ پاکستان صاحب ان مسلمانوں میں سے ہیں جو اسلام کے آدھے حصے یعنی احادیث سے تو جان چھڑا چکے ہیں، مگر ابھی آدھے کے ساتھ جھوجھ رہے ہیں۔ یہ ابھی ٹرانزیشن فیز میں ہیں۔ ان کی کوشش ہے کہ قرآن کے ترجمے کو کسی طرح قابلِ قبول بناکر مذہب اسلام کے ساتھ نتھی رہا جائے۔۔ دیکھتے ہیں کب تک یہ اس کوشش کو جاری رکھتے ہیں۔ یا پھر ہمت کرکے سچ کو قبول کرلیتے ہیں۔​

I didn't see, Kindly share the link.

I agree with you about Wake up Pakistan analysis. He was a typical Muslim. When he doesn't have the answer, he starts personal insults, like Abay toh Muslman hi nahi hay, Abay tooh dhokay baaz hay. :-)

Another story of Quran which I find very Amusing and have not found one person to defend it of Khader with Moosa when he was on killing spree. After killing he explained that he knew the future so he killed then to make the future a better place. For example the kid was killed by him because he was going to be a Nafarman to his parents. My question to every Muslim is, Does Allah know the time of death of a baby when he/she is born? They say Of Course Allah knows the death time of a baby when he/she is born. Than I ask them then if Khader killed a young man saying that he was going to be a disobedient child in the future then Khider was lying. because when that young man who born, Allah knew that on that day he was going to be killed by Khider because Allah knows time of death. Then why did Khider say he was going to be a disobedient child? He meant to die by Khider. Suppose , if Khider had not killed him and he would have lived and was going to be a disobedient child in the future then Allah did not know the future time of his death when he was born. And if his future time was to live to see his parents then Khider could not have killed him. Khider changed Allah's future? if he didn't and Allah knew what Khider was going to do then , there was not going to be anything what Khidar explained. (I wish I was in place of Moosa , I would have Khider arrested :-)) No Muslim has been able to solve this dilemma . As soon as they lose their defense is, abe tooh hay con ? Kafir? :-)

Changing the topic. Here is the link to my YouTube video. I am also a YouTuber and design videos. This dream of mine is 100% True. I thought I should design this unusual dream of mine in a video so I did.

 

[Cyber_Security]

Dear rumi admirer sb, unless you define proof for me there is no point in discussing things because how are you or me going to prove anything to each other? Even if you read my very first post on this thread I am emphasising vital importance of proof and proving.

So you should be able to see how vitally important definition of proof is for discussing things otherwise we can beat around the bush as much as we like but the end result will be zero. It will all be a waste of time.

It is like you say there is a sun in the sky and I say no there isn't one.

regards and all the best.

Do me a favour. Stay away from Islamic topics and Islamic forums because you can't defend your faith. and also I request you , please stay away from my post, you wasted my important time. I will not be responding to your posts in the future.

 

[Mughal1]

Do me a favour. Stay away from Islamic topics and Islamic forums because you can't defend your faith. and also I request you , please stay away from my post, you wasted my important time. I will not be responding to your posts in the future.

Dear rumi admirer sb, I am a student of the quran and islam so I have to get involved in these matters because I either learn from others or teach them about quran and islam.

Your time has been useful in the same sense that like me you also have become aware of your limitations in this matter. So hopefully you will work on things that are absolutely necessary to know about islam and quran just as I will have to work on things I need to learn to know them.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Dear rumi admirer sb, I am a student of the quran and islam so I have to get involved in these matters because I either learn from others or teach them about quran and islam.

Your time has been useful in the same sense that like me you also have become aware of your limitations in this matter. So hopefully you will work on things that are absolutely necessary to know about islam and quran just as I will have to work on things I need to learn to know them.

Meanwhile regards and all the best.

The Quran talks about people like Rumi-Admirer, It's better to avoid & ignore them because they are known for twisting the verses or adding thier fake interpretation to counter the truth.

Quarn 18:56 We sent Our message-bearers only to bring good news and to give warning, yet the unbelievers seek to refute the Truth with false arguments and mock My signs and warnings.

 

[Mughal1]

The Quran talks about people like Rumi-Admirer, It's better to avoid & ignore them because they are known for twisting the verses or adding thier fake interpretation to counter the truth.

Quarn 18:56 We sent Our message-bearers only to bring good news and to give warning, yet the unbelievers seek to refute the Truth with false arguments and mock My signs and warnings.

dear wake up pak sb, when people talk about the existing world, the quran and islam, all I can do is share my understanding of them with them regardless anyone likes it or not. It is because each and every person understands things from what is already in one's mind because we all have our own baggages with us which are put in our minds by people among whom we are born and live through indoctrination, brainwashing and conditioning. It is always mainly our own life experiences as well as life experiences of others with whom we have interacted or we have come across them.

I do not expect instant results of people reading what i write rather it takes its time before people come to realise things as to what they actually are. It takes time for the penny to drop. Moreover this is only true for people who have the needed level of understanding for things otherwise it is like you are putting class tenth maths in front of a child in class three. The class three child one day may reach the level required then he will come to know things but if he does not go through the learning process needed then he will never know class tenth maths.

This is why to know this world, the quran and islam one has to actively prepare one self purposefully properly for seeking, receiving, studying, accepting and acting upon purpose based proper guidance of his creator and sustainer purposefully properly.

Most people regardless what they claim to be never prepare themselves actively and purposefully properly about things but they argue for or against them anyway. However the good things is one day their this behaviour may lead them to where they need to be. So we should hope for the best but prepare for the worse.

The quran itself tells us that God gave us his guidance to prepare ourselves for a much bigger task as a mission. This is why the quran is not a 7th century book written by an illiterate person. People who want to study the quran they need to look at it from both points of views ie as a book from God as it claims and as a book from an illiterate person. But first it must be looked at as a word of God to see if it proves its claim positively. If it does then that is fine but if it does not then one can attribute it to anyone one likes because then it does not matter.

However when one looks at it as a book from God then one has to prepare oneself purposefully properly to make sure one is making the sense of its message as one is supposed to from point of view of God and not messing it up by one's own ignorance and stupidity like senseless mullahs and their blind followers or like philosophers and scientist and their blind followers. We know all these so called leading sensible people who have highest degrees and certificates from highly privileged educational institutions are not so sensible in actual fact because they have messed up our human world beyond repair so to speak.

It is just mindless people who make them famous and make them feel privileged and celebrities. Then rest think just shaking their hands with such people will be a great thing they can do. This is why people queue up for shaking hands and getting their signatures to show they have met a great person. Whereas the fact is that person has become their idol just by their making him or her into their idol. This is how tokenism is used to make fools of masses throughout human world. Mullahs are as devils as money lenders and rulers or even worse.

The quran does not tell people to follow people because people make mistakes instead it tells mankind to carry out God provided purpose based proper program by accomplishing its goals according to its guidelines by helping and supporting those who stick to those goals and guidelines purposefully properly so that together people could bring about and maintain a purpose based proper human community in his kingdom for ensuring their own well being through help and full support of each other by complementing each other purposefully properly.

regards and all the best.