SAUDI ARABIA GAVE BIG SHOCK TO MUSLIMS BEFORE 2025 RAMADAN

[observer-x]

Wrong again.

Have you studied Arabic? The people claiming to be Quranist they should atleast learn arabic, coz Quran is in arabic. You have no excuse to not learn arabic.

 

[observer-x]

I don't need to read IBNe Kathir or anyone else. You tell me from the Quran what the context of this verse is.

We rely on tafasir books to learn Quran from all angles. See how helpless you are now without secondary books.

 

[Wake up Pak]

We rely on tafasir books to learn Quran from all angles. See how helpless you are now without secondary books.

You got to be kidding me. I'm not helpless but you are. In fact, you are lost since you failed to understand the Quran.

 

[observer-x]

Civil? Just tell me what sect do you belong to?

You're pleading helplessly. If you were a tiny bit knowledgeable in deen you would have figured it out.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Have you studied Arabic? The people claiming to be Quranist they should atleast learn arabic, coz Quran is in arabic. You have no excuse to not learn arabic.

No, I have not studied Arabic. It does not mean you can not understand the very basics of the Quranic verses.

 

[Wake up Pak]

You're pleading helplessly. If you were a tiny bit knowledgeable in deen you would have figured it out.

You are wasting your time since you have no clue about the Quran.

 

[Wake up Pak]

You're pleading helplessly. If you were a tiny bit knowledgeable in deen you would have figured it out.

O you messenger, convey what was brought down to you from your Lord. If you do not, then you have not delivered His message. 5:67

 

[Wake up Pak]

We rely on tafasir books to learn Quran from all angles. See how helpless you are now without secondary books.

Follow what has been revealed to you from your Lord, there is no god except Him, and keep away from the mushrikeen.
Had God willed, they would not have committed shirk. We did not appoint you a guardian over them, nor are you a trustee over them. 6:106-107

 

[Wake up Pak]

You're pleading helplessly. If you were a tiny bit knowledgeable in deen you would have figured it out.

Say, "O people, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Whoever is guided is guided for himself, and whoever goes astray does so to his own detriment. I am not a trustee over you." 10:108

 

[Wake up Pak]

You're pleading helplessly. If you were a tiny bit knowledgeable in deen you would have figured it out.

If they turn away, then your sole duty is the delivery (of the message), and God is Seer of the servants. 3:20

 

[Mughal1]

It was crystal clear from your last post that you follow an atheistic approach. Knowing Allah starts from believing in a God first.

I have no issues with atheistic approach, what I get surprised is your twist in claiming there's an alternate Islam which is the right one. Why you're preaching that one?

Dear observer x sb, my approach is from a neutral stand point which is absolutely necessary when opinions differ to get to a common point. Otherwise we cannot benefit as much as we should from explanations and evidences we offer each other.

As I suggested already kindly find time to go through my posts and you will find the way I approach things and why I do that.

Yes, I put forth islam not as a religion ie dogmatic beliefs and ritual practices but as a project from God for humanity to complete by going through a process by using needed mechanisms as a mission assigned by God for mankind to carry out and accomplish to complete it. To me islam is an ideology about society, politics, culture and economy therefore it is a system with a structure which employees a procedure for people to practice so that God given project completes purposefully properly.

Because people who claim to be muslims they have ignored, neglected and avoided actual deen of islam therefore you can see the state of individuals as well as of so called ummah today. People who claim to be muslims are busy fighting with each other not only in form of secular and religious groups but even within those so many groups.

The top scholars people point out from privileged institutions to me hardly seem sensible people because it is they who led our human world to where it is now. This did not happen in one day but over a very, very long period of time. All because these people did not look at things the way they should have.

I have explained these things in detail in my posts and that is why anyone who thinks I have not covered an issue one has to go through them to see if I actually did not.

Yes, we must start from God but we must also take into account his alleged revelations because otherwise we cannot believe in God or his guidance for mankind. However each and everything must be linked logically consistently and not haphazardly and randomly. Without accepting existence of God we cannot accept existence of things because they do not have the ever existing ability.

Whatever is not ever existing is necessarily dependent upon someone ever existing and intelligent for its existence who could bring it about and sustain it. Also whatever is brought into existence by its creator and sustainer must have a purpose to serve which is intended by its creator and sustainer. This purpose has to be consistent within itself as well as with whatever is created and sustained. Hopefully this explain my position for you.

regards and all the best.

 

[observer-x]

No, I have not studied Arabic. It does not mean you can not understand the very basics of the Quranic verses.

We have the example of Christians and Jews who struggle with their core beliefs only because they have translations of translations of what they claim is their scripture. Yet they struggle because they lost the actual language those were revealed in.

The beauty and miraculous nature of Quran lies in it being in Arabic. Quran is the word of Allah and he speaks to us directly when we read it in Arabic and enters our heart directly - you can literally feel it. Translations can't do justice coz other languages can't cover the intricacies of conveying the idea the way Arabic does.

 

[observer-x]

You got to be kidding me. I'm not helpless but you are. In fact, you are lost since you failed to understand the Quran.

If you claim to know more than the mufassirs of Quran in the last 1500 years then:
Tell me when was this verse revealed?
Is it a makki surah or madani?
What was the asbab ul nuzool of this particular verse?
Are there are references of anyone ever asked Prophet SAW about this particular verse in order to understand what Allah is conveying in it?

 

[observer-x]

Dear observer x sb, my approach is from a neutral stand point which is absolutely necessary when opinions differ to get to a common point. Otherwise we cannot benefit as much as we should from explanations and evidences we offer each other.

100% Agreed.

As I suggested already kindly find time to go through my posts and you will find the way I approach things and why I do that.

Yes, I put forth islam not as a religion ie dogmatic beliefs and ritual practices but as a project from God for humanity to complete by going through a process by using needed mechanisms as a mission assigned by God for mankind to carry out and accomplish to complete it. To me islam is an ideology about society, politics, culture and economy therefore it is a system with a structure which employees a procedure for people to practice so that God given project completes purposefully properly.

Islam has already done exactly what you mentioned, that is why Islam did not stay in Arabia it reached all corners of the world from political governance to everyday life of its followers.

Because people who claim to be muslims they have ignored, neglected and avoided actual deen of islam therefore you can see the state of individuals as well as of so called ummah today. People who claim to be muslims are busy fighting with each other not only in form of secular and religious groups but even within those so many groups.

Allah has made humans as a creature that will disagree and fight all the time. Why do you think it is something which humans are not supposed to do?

"And when your Lord said to the angels, 'Indeed, I am going to make a vicegerent on the earth,' they said, 'Will You place therein one who will cause corruption therein and shed blood, while we extol Your praise and sanctify You?' He said, 'Indeed, I know what you do not know.'" (Quran 2:30)

The top scholars people point out from privileged institutions to me hardly seem sensible people because it is they who led our human world to where it is now. This did not happen in one day but over a very, very long period of time. All because these people did not look at things the way they should have.

That's your personal opinion. Are you more knowledgeable than they are, if yes then based on what ? Are you a bigger scholar than they are?

I have explained these things in detail in my posts and that is why anyone who thinks I have not covered an issue one has to go through them to see if I actually did not.

Yes, we must start from God but we must also take into account his alleged revelations because otherwise we cannot believe in God or his guidance for mankind. However each and everything must be linked logically consistently and not haphazardly and randomly. Without accepting existence of God we cannot accept existence of things because they do not have the ever existing ability.

alleged verses? you don't believe in Quran being the word of Allah?

 

[observer-x]

You are wasting your time since you have no clue about the Quran.

I'm just a student of Quran in particular and Islam in general. We're all lifelong students. You might be right you know more than me but I have not had that feeling as yet though due to your poor knowledge of Arabic.

Its like saying I know Shakespeare better than you do but I don't know english.

 

[Wake up Pak]

If you claim to know more than the mufassirs of Quran in the last 1500 years then:
Tell me when was this verse revealed?
Is it a makki surah or madani?
What was the asbab ul nuzool of this particular verse?
Are there are references of anyone ever asked Prophet SAW about this particular verse in order to understand what Allah is conveying in it?

First of all, I don't claim anything, secondly, Is it important to know whether a verse is Makki or Madani, or the reasons for its revelation (Asbab ul Nazool)?

 

[Wake up Pak]

I'm just a student of Quran in particular and Islam in general. We're all lifelong students. You might be right you know more than me but I have not had that feeling as yet though due to your poor knowledge of Arabic.

Its like saying I know Shakespeare better than you do but I don't know english.

That's good that you are a student of the Quran. As per my understanding, you are supposed to be knowledgeable about Arabic, so why didn't you understand the basic and straightforward verses I quoted above?

 

[observer-x]

First of all, I don't claim anything, secondly, Is it important to know whether a verse is Makki or Madani, or the reasons for its revelation (Asbab ul Nazool)?

Absolutely its important to know coz there are verses revealed earlier in the life of Prophet SAW getting abrogated by the verses that were revealed later.

I wish you knew the basics of Quranic sciences other wise you would not be asking these basic questions that every serious Quranic student knows.

 

[observer-x]

That's good that you are a student of the Quran. As per my understanding, you are supposed to be knowledgeable about Arabic, so why didn't you understand the basic and straightforward verses I quoted above?

We follow the verses with arabic first and also take into consideration the context and asbab ul nuzul as per the Quranic tafseer rules. And also see how other mufassir have possibly understood the verses.

We don't do taweel only out of thin air.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Absolutely its important to know coz there are verses revealed earlier in the life of Prophet SAW getting abrogated by the verses that were revealed later.

I wish you knew the basics of Quranic sciences other wise you would not be asking these basic questions that every serious Quranic student knows.

You seem to be lost my friend as you do not understand a very basic of the Quran, but you claim to know Arabic.
No verse was abrogated. You are blaming Allah for not knowing the initial verse revealed and later changing His mind to come up with another one.