Saudi Scholar Exposes The False Hadith Culture That Is Corrupting Islam

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I have nothing to refute it is you who believe in namaz why can't this simple thing go through your thick brain?
So far, You have proved nothing just verbal jargon with zero substance and logic to come up with the detailed method of Namaz.
If you are not sure about something, just accept it, instead of going in circles just to satisfy your inflated ego.
For the last time, I am asking you to give the details of the exact method of the current namaz from your beloved ahadith writers. (Shia ahadith or Sunni ahadith?)

I won't fall for your circumcision garbage right now. just stick to namaz which you believe in so dearly.
It means you have not gone through even a single article I referred.

You are so much predictable. The reasons, references and logics are there. But as I told you earlier that
"rather than trying to pose like a scholar (which you are not) it is better to read first and become a scholar and sound genuine"

And I won't fall for your Salaat cobweb like this. BTW, I have struck the right chord in the context of circumcision, because you are sounding quite hurt... lols
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
It means you have not gone through even a single article I referred.

You are so much predictable. The reasons, references and logics are there. But as I told you earlier that
"rather than trying to pose like a scholar (which you are not) it is better to read first and become a scholar and sound genuine"

And I won't fall for your Salaat cobweb like this. BTW, I have struck the right chord in the context of circumcision, because you are sounding quite hurt... lols
Again and again, I ask you the same question, come up with the exact method of the namaz from your ahadith either Shia or Sunni. I know you won't have an answer but just want to engage in useless conversation because your ego is hurt and I can feel for you...
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Again and again, I ask you the same question, come up with the exact method of the namaz from your ahadith either Shia or Sunni. I know you won't have an answer but just want to engage in useless conversation because your ego is hurt and I can feel for you...
Again and again, I'll tell you to refer to the links provided. They have all the details you need and I have nothing else to submit in this respect.

But I know, your kaanpain taang jati hain, whenever there is something to read, & a reference to your circumcision according to the REAL ISLAMIC WAY ... lols
 
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Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Wake up Pak , Last time, when there was a conflict in the matter of a Hadith regarding drinking of Camel urine, I went through all those 8 research articles published and gone through Sahih Bukhari and various commentaries on it to come up with a meaningful answer.

So, if you need time, then please take your time and come back after reading, absorbing and understanding things. No hurries.

At least I'll be talking to a well read person.
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Again and again, I'll tell you to refer to the links provided. They have all the details you need and I have nothing else to submit in this respect.

But I know, your kaanpain taang jati hain, whenever there is something to read.
I can post many links but it does not jive with the ahadith.
Which namaz do you perform? Shia or Sunni?
How did the Prophet learn to pray the namaz? Did he pray according to Shia or Sunni?
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Wake up Pak , Last time, when there was a conflict in the matter of a Hadith regarding drinking of Camel urine, I went through all those 8 research articles published and gone through Sahih Bukhari and various commentaries on it to come up with a meaningful answer.

So, if you need time, then please take your time and come back after reading, absorbing and understanding things. No hurries.

At least I'll be talking to a well read person.
I do not know what research articles you are talking about drinking camel urine? All I know is that the ahadith have this garbage as well.
 
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Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I can post many links but it does not jive with the ahadith.
Please do, but they have to be corresponding to the links provided to you here.

Which namaz do you perform? Shia or Sunni?
Does not matter. You say that there is no Namaz, so the way of praying is not important if the existence or tenability is in question.
How did the Prophet learn to pray the namaz? Did he pray according to Shia or Sunni?
Minor differences do not matter. They all pray to Allah (SWT), all face the Qibla (according to the teachings of Quran), Prostrate, do ruku (one in each rakat), sajda (two in each Rakat), say salaam etc. So much for unanimity. Plus they all pray five times a day.
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I do not what research articles you are talking about drinking camel urine? All I know is that the ahadith have this garbage as well.
When you thought that I ran away in the last thread.

However, you may refer here for my answer:



P.S. I am only interested in a meaningful debate, which is of essence, not interested in locking horns with a hodgepodge half-witted and undercooked slurry master to end up in nothing but wasting time and effort.
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
When you thought that I ran away in the last thread.

However, you may refer here for my answer:



P.S. I am only interested in a meaningful debate, which is of essence, not interested in locking horns with a hodgepodge half-witted and undercooked slurry master to end up in nothing but wasting time and effort.
So what is the point you are trying to convey about camel urine? Does it cure any disease? and even if it does, will you drink it to cure a disease?
I do not wish to discuss the camel urine at the moment but want to stick to the namaz which you have not come up with any rational or logical answer as of yet.
As you are a staunch believer of hadith, can you quote the ahadith about Prophet Mohammad going to heaven on a flying donkey to meet God? Did he receive the namaz as a gift for the Ummah?
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
First you agreed that the word "Suhuf" is mainly translated as "Scripture" by most of the translators. I took your argument there. But now, you have been webbed in your own cobweb. You clearly argued that it was paper. Now you are just jumping everywhere.
Pfttt! Caught lying again. Never said paper, said pages. Most of your further ramblings are on the point of paper and the usual verbal gymnastics, paper was expensive blah blah, so ignoring them and skipping ahead.

If any copy was compiled by Prophet (SAW), it would've been guarded with the lives of Muslims and would've been preserved
So where is "your" actual first copy of the Quran, since "it would also would've been guarded with the lives of Muslims and preserved" The one, poor Zaid bin Thabit roamed the lands, searched high and low collected tid bits of the Quran from plant stalks, stones and bones and complied? A task more difficult than moving a mountain as said by Thabit himself. A book complied with such great effort would have been guarded and looked after even more, don't you think? Even if no one did. Thabit himself would have taken great care of it, after all no one knew better than him with how much difficulty he made that copy!

So where is that first copy of the Quran as compiled by Mr Thabit according to your hadith?

I started my arguments that for many details we then refer to the Hadith/Sunnah and then go down the hierarchy, in the light of the Governing principle of Quran
And as I said only in words, not in action. This thread itself is a proof of that, the Quran says its a book, written on pages. But you refuse to believe that because your hadith says otherwise. And to me this is not even a crucial or a matter of great importance and yet you hadithist can't even accept the Quran in this somewhat trivial mater, forget anything major or crucial.

ALSO the part you totally skipped ahead so you can blab about the importance of hadith.

Quran mentions things in detail pertaining to the deen of Allah and things related to it so on and so forth.

Meaning you don't need any supplementary body of text, (specially not close to a 100 books) because all the details of the deen are in the Quran, and if there was need, Allah would have sent down another book. If all the trees were pens and all the oceans ink, Allah's words would not finish even if refilled. Not waited for defeated Persians centuries later to "explain" his message.

Going round in circles, trying to bite your own tail. What does it refer to here? that Quran was inscripted firsthand on the pages of paper?
*Sigh! ? So ayats from the Quran is going around circles? Pages, man Pages, NO ONE OTHER THAN YOU IS INSISTING ABOUT PAPER.

does it mean that a page cannot be written on a parchment, leaf or shoulder bone of a camel?
Nope page can never mean stone or bone. And for FFS sakes its called a shoulder blade. Show me one complete book written on stone or bone? Well now at the very least you accept صُحُف means pages and before. Unlike before.

2- Now I understand that why you are unable to see the evidences and my clear statements..... My name spells "Sohail SHUJA" and not "Shujah"
Well you must be under the impression that I actually give a crap about you or how you spell you name. Be it Shuhail, Suhail, Sohail. Sujah, Shuja or Shujah. Guess what I don't.


and I also give a damn about what you believe for yourself. It doesn't make you a person of a lesser kind. However, as I said earlier that if you start criticizing others, then you should be able to have a meaningful discussion to prove your point scholastically. No one really cares and is really interested in what you believe for your ownself, unless and until your finger touches anyone else's nose.
Ooooo getting touchy again! lol What should be my reaction, should I be concerned, should I be scared? You tell me. lol

Alright Mr. Wiseguy, slap it on my face here if I ever said that everything in Hadith is correct or otherwise shut your big mouth which is spitting lies everywhere. Show me where I have said it? if you fail, then this is the last chance for you that I let it go decently. You may please do not repeat such a slander against me again. IT IS A HUMBLE REQUEST.

Again the same lie as stated above. My prelim is that the Hadith has to be in line with the Quran and I have stated it numerous times. Give me a single reference out of my postings and I will never again show up on this forum again.
Oh the lady doth protests too much. Ironic this coming from a proven liar, not once, but twice. So it's okay for you to slander others but get your panties in a twist when you imagine others have slandered you! lol

Give up the dramatics here man, really isn't your thing.

Go open your eyes and read again, or enroll in English comprehension classes if you are having trouble!

You claimed the hadith are correct and everything in it, well at least in this matter

Meaning you believe this hadith about Zaid Ibn Thabit, bones, stones etc etc is true and authentic.

So yeah cut the dramatics out, but still doesn't absolve you from being a shameless liar.

"Suhuf e Ibrahim-a- wa Musa"

As I said earlier, in the times of Moses(AS) and Abraham (AS), paper was not even invented
LOL I was waiting for when you would come up with this.

Context is everything "dear"

Prophet Musa was given tablets directly from God. He didn't have to write them down. And the word used for them in the Quran is ٱلْأَلْوَاحِ ( 7:145)

Prophet Ibrahim was given the Tawrat, generally believed to be scrolls.
87:19 is referring to scriptures of the past in general. So scriptures of Ibrahim and Musa. And it is already understood Shuhuf can ALSO mean scripture. It would make no sense to say and also not bode well in the style the Quran is written in to say the Tablets of Musa and scrolls of Ibrahim.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Again and again, I'll tell you to refer to the links provided. They have all the details you need and I have nothing else to submit in this respect.

But I know, your kaanpain taang jati hain, whenever there is something to read, & a reference to your circumcision according to the REAL ISLAMIC WAY ... lols
I actually went through all your links, none of them provide reference from the Quran or your hadith with the details of how to preform salah, the actual question posed. They just talk in a general manner, with some fragmented information here and there.

No step by step details on 1st how many times a day the salah is supposed to be prayed and the name of the prayers, how many cycles/units/rakah of prayers in each time, what one has to recite during each phase of the prayer. No such details given.

And when the Quran says it's Tibyaanan li Kulli Shaiyin, detailed and contains everything, then how is it, it does not have the details of such an important act of worship. An act of worship which according to some of you lot is the difference between a believer and non believer and regardless of how one lives or does good deeds will still end up in hell if he does not perform the ritual prayer.

If it was so crucial, I think the Quran would go into great detail about this ritual form of worship right down to the minutest detail.
 

Wake up Pak

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Please do, but they have to be corresponding to the links provided to you here.


Does not matter. You say that there is no Namaz, so the way of praying is not important if the existence or tenability is in question.

Minor differences do not matter. They all pray to Allah (SWT), all face the Qibla (according to the teachings of Quran), Prostrate, do ruku (one in each rakat), sajda (two in each Rakat), say salaam etc. So much for unanimity. Plus they all pray five times a day.
I would like to clarify that the Quran does not instruct Muslims to offer Namaz. I do not know how Prophet Mohammad was praying because I was not over there but, I do know one thing with confidence from the Quran, Prophet Mohammad was completely unaware present kind of Zoroastrians Namaz and Jews prayers. How come Prophet Mohammad could give his nation the present form of prayers which is the main cause of the bloodshed in the mosques and Imam Bargah's disintegration in the Muslim society? This worship has destroyed the unity of the Muslims. Do you think Prophet Mohammad could give his nation dissimilar rituals of worshipping which is the main cause of hatred and disintegration among the Muslims on account of the following reasons?
a- Different Namaz or prayers for Shiah and Sunni.
b- Different Azan for Sunni and Shiah
 

Sohail Shuja

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
*Sigh! ? So ayats from the Quran is going around circles? Pages, man Pages, NO ONE OTHER THAN YOU IS INSISTING ABOUT PAPER.
Now refer to the post # 60, para 2 of this thread and see

CitizenX.jpg


You are busted! ☝️☝️☝️

Nope page can never mean stone or bone. And for FFS sakes its called a shoulder blade. Show me one complete book written on stone or bone? Well now at the very least you accept صُحُف means pages and before. Unlike before.
and suhuf is mainly translated as scriptures, as per your own given translations.

Well you must be under the impression that I actually give a crap about you or how you spell you name. Be it Shuhail, Suhail, Sohail. Sujah, Shuja or Shujah. Guess what I don't.
O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one’s] faith. And whoever does not repent – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Tell you what, it appears that you even do not follow the Quran. You just hate hadith and this might be due to your own personal experience with someone. So, you just read Quran to find the references to refute Hadith, but do not really take it as a book to follow.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
You are busted! ☝️☝️☝️
LOL Still having comprehension issues are we. Does it say it means ONLY paper. IF I did I would not have posted various translations translated it as scriptures and hoot myself in the foot! Busted my @$$ Ghreebon ki choti choti khushiyaan! lol

O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one’s] faith. And whoever does not repent – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
Like I said stop being so sensitive, first you throw a temper tantrum and supposedly being "slandered" then a tiny typo gets you all upset and equate it to ridiculing!

Like I said give up the dramatics man, not your thing, pretending to be on high moral ground, specially when you've been caught lying over and over again, making nonsensical strawmen arguments etc etc. So getting all puffy over a typo is a bit much.

And a nice dodge on everything else. ? Sorry your distraction by throwing another temper tantrum didn't work.
 

Citizen X

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
I would like to clarify that the Quran does not instruct Muslims to offer Namaz. I do not know how Prophet Mohammad was praying because I was not over there but, I do know one thing with confidence from the Quran, Prophet Mohammad was completely unaware present kind of Zoroastrians Namaz and Jews prayers. How come Prophet Mohammad could give his nation the present form of prayers which is the main cause of the bloodshed in the mosques and Imam Bargah's disintegration in the Muslim society? This worship has destroyed the unity of the Muslims. Do you think Prophet Mohammad could give his nation dissimilar rituals of worshipping which is the main cause of hatred and disintegration among the Muslims on account of the following reasons?
a- Different Namaz or prayers for Shiah and Sunni.
b- Different Azan for Sunni and Shiah
2:170 : And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?

This ayah fits in so perfectly with this blind following mindset
 

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