The first Khalifa, Ameer al Mo'meneen Abu Bakr Siddiq

[Mughal1]

Dear molson4u, here are verses we are talking about.

033.032 O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (God), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.


033.033 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey God and His Apostle. And God only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.


033.034 And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of God and His Wisdom: for God understands the finest mysteries and is well-acquainted (with them).



If you read them they are very clear ie they are about wives of the prophet who live in their own separate houses.


The verses are about how they should conduct themselves in light of their status. Allah wants to make sure that they are as good as their status requires of them to be. Hence TAT-HEER is mainly about wives of the prophet because allah wants to ensure that none is able to point finger at the prophet as regard his wives. That is all. From these verses alone it cannot be brought forth that these verses are about others as well but accepting them as part does not contradict the verses. In general household includes wives, children, syblings and parents.


So one needs to bring evidence from the quran itself to exclude any of the household of the prophet because it is the quran that includes them.


So any ahadith reports that contradict the quran are clearly incomplete, faulty or false. Please see rules for testing ahadith reports. Not all reports attributed to prophet are true some are clear lies so if people could attribute lies to the prophet why not to others as well for whatever reasons?



Please think about it that you cannot dismiss the quran by mere so called ahadith that make no sense.

regards and all the best.

 

[Malik495]

Moslon...
i am not asking about ahlaybait .. and i am not asking anyone else.. i am just asking to you.... do you count your wife within your family or not? just a simple question ... i told you no need to copy paste?

 

[babadeena]

Brother Babadeena.... Ali was taken as a nafas, we all have one. You are different and your nafas is inside you. The word in arabic is used as bring your Nafas and we bring our Nafas and Prophet took ALI. Secondly Whole surah Al Insaan has more than 20 Ayats alone. I will not spend time to quote u all. Here is a hint: Ibna Abbas said: there are more than 300 Ayat on Ali in the Quran ( Khutaba Bagdadi tran Ismial bin Muhammad shumara 3275, History of Badgad, volume 6 page 221, Sk. Salaman Hanfi in book yanaba al mauda chapter 42, page 148, Sayuti, history of Qhalatif page 172, Ibna Hijar in sawayaq page 76).
Yazeed bin Romaan stated in a natation that the amount of ayat that came in shan of ALi can never be matched by anyone.

You are forcibly using connection of verses with a particular personality. Do you think that if a particular verse was related
to someone, Allah (Nauzubilla) could not have written that personality name there. For you, the plural form of "walazeena" is
equal to "Aalazee". I call it "Personality or cult-worshiping" nothing else.

 

[molson4u]

Mugal1 brother you are so lost that u are challanging the hadith from AyshaSadiqa (RA) and basically saying she was a liar and made up this story....May Allah forgive you. Brother same Hadith is also quoted by Umma Salam(RA) and u are saying all of the wives made it up. How that is possible that they all said that it was only ALI FATIMA HASSAN and HUSSAIN and forgot to included themselves. If all the wives are liars then how can Allah claims that Ahlaybaat are Pakiza and Pak..think

Malik495..Brother their is different in me and the Holy prophet and Panjatan Pak...so brother what was his instrution for about his ahlaybaat can't be what i have.

Babrdeena... I am not forciably doing anything, that is what is wrtten by Sunni Ullama and Shia Ullama. Allah has not named many people in the Quran and their was a reason behind it. Most of the people in the time of Prophet were namely muslinm and Munafiq. If he has said the names of Ahlaybaat, many mighter sahaba would have left Islam.
No one is equal to the Prophet, Ali, Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain. All shia and Sunni Mofarreen, Ullamah and whole Ummah believes in that EXCEPT kharajis. If you are Kharaji then this is the end of the discussion. Allah says that " there example is like a blind man, when a light comes to them they can't see(Al Baqra)

The purpose here is to seek the truth and comeout of Kharji Cult and ask for forgiveness. Allah is saying the if you want to do something for prophet, say Dooroud on hism and love is kinship.

I have scanned few pages for you with reference from the highest scholars of Sunni Faith, with reference, books, page number ect. If you tell me how to attach it here for you , I will appreciate.

 

[molson4u]

 

[molson4u]

 

[molson4u]

Here are referances by Ullamah

 

[Mughal1]

Mugal1 brother you are so lost that u are challanging the hadith from AyshaSadiqa (RA) and basically saying she was a liar and made up this story....May Allah forgive you. Brother same Hadith is also quoted by Umma Salam(RA) and u are saying all of the wives made it up. How that is possible that they all said that it was only ALI FATIMA HASSAN and HUSSAIN and forgot to included themselves. If all the wives are liars then how can Allah claims that Ahlaybaat are Pakiza and Pak..think

Dear molson, could you please read again what I wrote. I did not exclude ali, fatima, hassan and hussain from list of ahlal bait, did I? Were you not a bit too quick to reply?

regards and all the best.

 

[babadeena]

Babrdeena... I am not forciably doing anything, that is what is wrtten by Sunni Ullama and Shia Ullama. Allah has not named many people in the Quran and their was a reason behind it. Most of the people in the time of Prophet were namely muslinm and Munafiq. If he has said the names of Ahlaybaat, many mighter sahaba would have left Islam.
No one is equal to the Prophet, Ali, Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain. All shia and Sunni Mofarreen, Ullamah and whole Ummah believes in that EXCEPT kharajis. If you are Kharaji then this is the end of the discussion. Allah says that " there example is like a blind man, when a light comes to them they can't see(Al Baqra)

The purpose here is to seek the truth and comeout of Kharji Cult and ask for forgiveness. Allah is saying the if you want to do something for prophet, say Dooroud on hism and love is kinship.

BTW what is that, which u r discussing and proving. I told you I am not "Personality-cult worshiper". You are now quoting Hadiths, I have
no knowledge of them so I cannot say anything on that. But please google the arabic words from Quran "Ahalaybait", if I am not
wrong the same word was for Pharon's family also. You google the arabic word "Youtahirkum" the same word has also been
used for all believers. What is big shot you are promoting. Believe me I am not underestimating the personalities you are
referring but I am not either of their worshipers as some people are. The reference from Shiachat.com is visible in my
previous post.

 

[molson4u]

Dear Babadeena--- Brother we just worship Allah and the ahlaybaaat also worshiped Allah and never told anyone to worship their personalities. Now let me remind you something. Your Ameer ul momineen Yazeed( lanatullah) gave the first sermon in Jamma Musjid Kufa saying " nothing came from havens nor anyone went to havens and is was all buno Hasim who started this to create their kingdom. Basically what he was saying was that there was no angel came to give Gods word as Mohammad (PBUH)claimed nor he went on Maraj so it was all made up story by Buno hashim to start kingdom and he wanted Imam Hussain to do a baat on that.

Brother, if you are a muslim today, its because of Hussain and Karbala. If you say prayers today is in a sadqa of Imam Hussain. If you do fasting today its the zakat of imam Hussain. How a nation can forget its mohsin. Look at you history, Who supported Muhmmad when he was an orphan and ask him to spread the word...Ali's dad. Who spread Islam and defended Islam in all wars....Ali and you saved Islam in Karbala...Ali's son. It is that is why Allah said " Tell them if you want to give me something for my rasalat...love my kinship" and that Allah only intention is to purify your hlaybaat 33:33.

Also brother do you think the 72 people in karbala were a cult and 100,000 munafikeen who killed the Imam were the true Ummah. Majority in the world is mushrik, non muslim and munafiq and amoung million, few are Mutakeen and Salaheen and mohsineen, you will call them a cult too. If there are a cult, i am proud to belong with them.

Mufakar Islam, Dr. Allam Iqbal said:

Islam ka daman main bas do he to cheezay hain
Ik zarba-e-Yadullah, Ik sajda-e-Shabeeri

Let's love Allah, His prophet and his kinship(Ahlaybaat) and his Sahaba to be on the right path of Sarat-e-Mustakim.

I think we have nothing more to talk.., May Allah bless you and ur family and you have a great 2011 bringing you to the right Path.

 

[Raaz]

Qaiser! You are wrong. I think you have copied this from somewhere. The article writer has made
exaggeration to a great extent.
Allah called or gave title of "Sadiq" to two prophets one of them is Ibrahim;
Allah also kept this title opened for all people, provided they fulfill two conditions.
(I have source from Quran, wherein is no doubt). In the love of companions, we should
and must not cross the limits.

Very stupid view.
In saudia, they call sometimes u also , Sidque ' means friend. it does not mean that friend of babadena has to be mentioned in Quran first. :lol:

I will request all my friend to ignore his logics.

He is away from all Ahadees, how comes u could understand the incident af changing the direction to Kaba if so.

Sahaba turned at 180 degree without asking the quran reference, and some dont. Allah said people r judged .

The real deen is fearing Allah and obeying Muhammad .

Babadena, keep on your path, I am sure you always ask reference from quran , when your wife talk to too .

Allah Ese deen se bachaee.

 

[babadeena]

Very stupid view.
In saudia, they call sometimes u also , Sidque ' means friend. it does not mean that friend of babadena has to be mentioned in Quran first. :lol:

I will request all my friend to ignore his logics.

He is away from all Ahadees, how comes u could understand the incident af changing the direction to Kaba if so.

Sahaba turned at 180 degree without asking the quran reference, and some dont. Allah said people r judged .

The real deen is fearing Allah and obeying Muhammad .

Babadena, keep on your path, I am sure you always ask reference from quran , when your wife talk to too .

Allah Ese deen se bachaee.

R U in your senses. Check post No.6, Mughal1 gave those verses about which I was talking. For
you this is stupid idea to quote Quran. Allah he hafiz hay tumaraha then? "When Jaheel
talk, it is better to say Salaam",

 

[babadeena]

Molson4U,
First of all this was a thread about Abu Bakar (rzt), it was unfair on your part to
hijack it with other subject. Moreover I am not a spokesperson for Yazid as you are
for Hussain(as). For me their accounts are with their Lord, they can be of no
harm or benefit to us, if we have not our own good deeds. So for me those
people are just history now.
Your views about 33:33 and Love for Qurba already explained so many times.
I am Muslim because it is as my Lord wishes, nor due to any one else.
For me at that time what happened since the murder of Usman(rzt) till
after centuries, it was all politics and strife between two dynasties,
banu ummaya and banu hashim and then banu ummaya and banu ibbas.
Religion nothing to do with all this. You seem to be under the strong influence of
Zakreen, and Qasida reciters i am not.

 

[Raaz]

R U in your senses. Check post No.6, Mughal1 gave those verses about which I was talking. For
you this is stupid idea to quote Quran. Allah he hafiz hay tumaraha then? "When Jaheel
talk, it is better to say Salaam",

:lol:
Wa Alikum,
very funny.
Looks like hafe of Quann was on you, because u claim Muhammad was like u Good Quranist ,

What else u r ? Biblest ? Vaedic ? Torah-ist ? Good to have knowledge. of Quran anyways.

For refusing every word, saying it is not in Quran. and start surching net and cutting and pasting. Very good way.

I got u , U name like muslim only, because ,Baba Deena is used in India for a old man named Muhammad Deen.

But in fact U might be any thing.

When non- muslims discuss with Muslims, they only refer Quran,

Like Zakir naik used to Quote Bible when talking with Christian.

When a person talks, it become clear , his is Shetan or Insan , infact.

 

[babadeena]

:lol:
Wa Alikum,
very funny.
Looks like hafe of Quann was on you, because u claim Muhammad was like u Good Quranist ,

What else u r ? Biblest ? Vaedic ? Torah-ist ? Good to have knowledge. of Quran anyways.

For refusing every word, saying it is not in Quran. and start surching net and cutting and pasting. Very good way.

I got u , U name like muslim only, because ,Baba Deena is used in India for a old man named Muhammad Deen.

But in fact U might be any thing.

When non- muslims discuss with Muslims, they only refer Quran,

Like Zakir naik used to Quote Bible when talking with Christian.

When a person talks, it become clear , his is Shetan or Insan , infact.

Ask any one from the Board, I have qouted from Quran, but You seem to be a Munkaray Quran.
what I can do for, please be on your way!!!

 

[Raaz]

Ask any one from the Board, I have qouted from Quran, but You seem to be a Munkaray Quran.
what I can do for, please be on your way!!!

chore ki dhari mein tinka :lol:

 

[molson4u]

@ babadeena... If Abu Talib would have not supported Muhammad(PBUH) their would be no Islam. If ALI has not defended Islam in all Wars from OHAD, Badar, Khandaq a,d Tabuook, their will be no Islam and If Hussain has not sacrified his life with his children including a 6 month old child and accepted your Ameer ul Momineen Yazad( LanatUllah)..their will be no Islam. So the namaz you do today, the quran your read today, the fast you observe today is the sadiqa of Ahlaybaat of rasool.

Is this how you treat your mohsineen? calling them personalities. These personality are loved by Allah and mentioned in Quran. People who say Quran is enough for us are lost today and you my brother are one of them. If reading the book was enough, don't you think Allah could have sent and Angal to your house with a book? If reading a book is all what it takes, then what is the use of University, a Dean, professors, TA and tutors...why people don't get medical books and read them at home and be called doctors, lawyers programmers... Islam is an institution. Quran is the text, Rasool is the deans of this institution and Ahlaybaat are the professors and waliullah are the TA( teaching assistants) and Ullama are the tutors.

If you fellow the channel you will graduate or will keep trying to read the book and be lost all of your life and will be a dropout.. can i make more simple than that. Now i am speaking at Kindergarten level for you.

 

[atensari]

Sahaba Ikram are crop of Muhammad SAW and Kuffars are jealous from them - Quran Majeed.

 

[babadeena]

@ babadeena... If Abu Talib would have not supported Muhammad(PBUH) their would be no Islam. If ALI has not defended Islam in all Wars from OHAD, Badar, Khandaq a,d Tabuook, their will be no Islam and If Hussain has not sacrified his life with his children including a 6 month old child and accepted your Ameer ul Momineen Yazad( LanatUllah)..their will be no Islam. So the namaz you do today, the quran your read today, the fast you observe today is the sadiqa of Ahlaybaat of rasool.
Is this how you treat your mohsineen? calling them personalities. These personality are loved by Allah and mentioned in Quran. People who say Quran is enough for us are lost today and you my brother are one of them. If reading the book was enough, don't you think Allah could have sent and Angal to your house with a book? If reading a book is all what it takes, then what is the use of University, a Dean, professors, TA and tutors...why people don't get medical books and read them at home and be called doctors, lawyers programmers... Islam is an institution. Quran is the text, Rasool is the deans of this institution and Ahlaybaat are the professors and waliullah are the TA( teaching assistants) and Ullama are the tutors.
If you fellow the channel you will graduate or will keep trying to read the book and be lost all of your life and will be a dropout.. can i make more simple than that. Now i am speaking at Kindergarten level for you.

My Allah does not depend upon any one. He is Indpendent of all the Universe (Ghani ul alameen). He has the power
of Kun Fa Ya Koon.

وَلَئِنْ شِئْنَا لَنَذْهَبَنَّ بِالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ ثُمَّ لَا تَجِدُ لَكَ بِهِ عَلَيْنَا وَكِيلًا [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{86**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 17:86] And if We please, We should certainly take away that which We have revealed to you, then you would not find for it any protector against Us.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 17:86] And if We willed We could withdraw that which We have revealed unto thee, then wouldst thou find no guardian for thee against Us in respect thereof.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 17:86] If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee by inspiration:then wouldst thou find none to plead thy affair in that matter as against Us,-[/SIZE]

Perhaps above verse may change your concept. Give Attention to whom this verse is addressed. This is big
example from Quran that Allah does not depend upon anyone. Rather Anyone should be thankful to Allah. So Islam
would have been, IRRESPECTIVE

 

[Newt0n]

@Everyone----------- dont u think tht the topic is completely diverted from its original course.!!

@Babadeena ------- Bro wid all due respect, i differ from you when u say tht those personalities are past.... bcoz if Quran still points to them till this day it means tht Allah does not wants them to b past...and secondly (my personal understanding) I think Allah also desires for us to follow the personalities and for tht v shud first select who is wrth followng, coz when v talk about Siraat-e-Mustakeem (in Sura-e-fatiha) tht very next aayat points towards some personalities (on whom allah has --- apni rehmatain naazil ki hain un per nahi jin per gazab naazil kia, dont know the proper english for it)... ust like tht in Sura-e-Luqman Allh hs also said to follow the path of those who bring u towards Allah, and just like tht if u love Allah u shud follow prophet, i m sure u r more aware then me about these aayats all are about personalities...(what do u think abou it) Regarding everyone talking about Ayat-e-Tatheer and ur googling.. first of all it wud b nice if anyone here can provide me with the aayaat numbers containing the word AHL or AHLEBAIT, its nice to see tht u do research before answering, but i request you to kindly quote all the aayats mentioning Tatheerakum... and review it urself, and see y is this ayat different from others.... or if u can provide me wid a link tht can help me review this matter i shall be grateful...